Subaru Crew Problems & Solutions

1179180182184185385

Comments

  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    and cuts losses (like more insulation) will help the system. While it is easy to see and clean the condensor (in front of the radiator), the condition of the evaporator might become a bigger issue. More compact and hidden away deep in the dash, they can become choked with dust & leaves, and a wonderful breeding ground for mold, etc, cutting airflow (and heat transfer) considerably. Who knows, the next replacement for penicillin could be only a few feet away!

    Does anybody know the airflow pattern thru the cabin air filters? Are they positioned before (I hope) the evaporator & heater core to protect them? I am thinking of adding the kit to my base OBW.

    Steve
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    OCD Club Question: is it OK to "just" wash the fins, or should we wax them or coat them with something? :o)

    -juice
  • amsbearamsbear Member Posts: 147
    And don't forget to floss!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Tooth picks, or bristle brush? Horse hair or synthetic? OCD minds want to know....

    -juice
  • maverick1017maverick1017 Member Posts: 212
    Glad to see you are back! I stoped by the dealer just to see if they can at least read the error code, no such luck. I explained to them exactly the problem and situations leading up to and following its occurance. They told me I had two choices, keep my original appointment or leave the car there and cross my fingers that they can get to it in a reasonable amount of time. Since yesterday was wednsday I didn't see them getting to the car untill next week. I am fresh out of warranty over 30K miles ago, the car have over 92,000 on it. I didn't even find out about extended warranty untill after the factory warranty expired, oh well. The hesitation isn't that bad, just an annoyance. I can basically keep it from happening if I feather the accelerator. But everytime I have to merge into highway traffice I get a bit nervouse. It seems I can reproduce the problem at will everytime I slow down and then accelerate immediatly, such as taking a corner.

    I took the car to Autozone and had the error code read, misfire in cylinder four. I changed the plugs at ~60,000 to Bosch platinum +4 and new wires. The girl at Autozone said I can clean the plugs but she doesn't know how. Oh well I guess I'll just pull out the plug and put in completely new ones if I have to. I think I will invest in an OBD-II reader or software and interface for my laptop. (OH BOY! NEW TOY, NEW TOY!!)

    Thanks
    Mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Just remove the plugs, clean them with a wire brush, re-gap them, then install them again. I doubt it needs that, though.

    I had a misfire a long time ago and they reset it. It was fine after that (no repair required).

    -juice
  • babaorileybabaoriley Member Posts: 74
    My 00 OB experienced this same sort of thing, except at higher speed acceleration. It was the plug and the coil that needed replacing. You may also want to have the new wire for that cylinder tested. I've replaced spark plug wires in the past that were faulty from the beginning.

    -Brett
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    An even greater handyman's helper than duct tape, eh?

    juice: bristle brush or old toothbrush. I would never wax the fins, that'd just cause the problem to recur sooner (gives those bugs someting to hold onto). I'd also wear a good pair of leather gloves if I was reaching down in there. I've sliced open too many fingertips replacing and repairing radiators not to do otherwise.

    Ed
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Why clean plugs? Just replace, NGK V-power copper plugs are $1.69 each and you *will* notice a difference if you change them every 20,000 miles.

    -Colin
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    My OE plugs have 53k miles and I'm still getting 25 mpg regularly.

    Freak exception, maybe? ;-)

    -juice
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Not sure how that's relevant?

    You were advising to clean plugs-- I said that's silly. :)

    Change yours, tell me your results. Real numbers or butt-dyno... doesn't matter.

    -Colin
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Hey, he asked. I'd change them, too, if I had any symptoms.

    I'm trying to wait until 60k just to stay on a schedule. You think I'll remember at 106k? I can't remember to pack my cell phone every morning! ;-)

    -juice
  • idahodougidahodoug Member Posts: 537
    Just a quick comment that I drove the Sube in high heat today for the first time and completely agree. Without even thinking about it, I was driving around with the temp slightly off full cold and the fan on 2, where it had required full cold and 3-4 fan speed to even make the interior tolerable.

    Also, knew the A/C heat exchanger unit was the cleaning that helped, but didn't want to confuse anyone. Cleaning both it and the actual engine radiator at the same time is both desirable and inevitable since they're sandwiched. Good call on the insulation of the return line.

    IdahoDoug
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    or gap a platinum plug. They come pre-gapped by part number. The platinum is a coating over a base metal. If you clean or gap, you scrape the coating and no longer have a platinum plug! It may still function OK, but you lost the longevity advantage. Treat your car to new ones.

    Steve
  • jfljfl Member Posts: 1,399
    I thought Phase 1 engines used platinum plugs and 60k changes because the plugs were harder to get to. I agree with Steve about not wire brushing platinum plugs.

    Phase 2 engines use copper plugs and 30k changes.

    Also, I've had cars in the past that had plain copper plugs from the factory even when the manual very specifically called out a special (silver!) plug.

    Jim
  • earthwomanearthwoman Member Posts: 47
    Does anyone know if my car has a knock sensor? and what is the advantage/disadvantage of using a fuel with a higher octane than 87 in my car? From what I read the low humidity and high heat (18 days over 100 in July) in my area ups the amount of octane my car needs. I put in premium (91 octane, I think)the last two fill ups and it seems to have a marked improvement in acceleration. Am I imaging this? Is it the placebo affect? LOL
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It might be. :-)

    On hot days the air is less dense, so you'll lose power regardless of the octane you use. It's not so much that everyone would notice, though.

    But if the air is less dense, you have less effective compression, so pre-ignition is actually less likely. Octane becomes less important, not more.

    -juice
  • maverick1017maverick1017 Member Posts: 212
    yesterday, it was fine, cleaned it abit by just wiping it and a soft painter's brush, put new anyseize and dielectric grease on it and the boot, pluged it back in. Drive to work this morning was normal. The wires are only ~30K old, if they are faulty wouldn't the problem show up from the get go?

    Well I ordered NGK iridium IX plugs, they should be here next week. I really don't want to change plugs every 20K miles. I have the phase I engine, changing plugs is not an easy or fun job. Space is VERY tight down there.

    The Bosch plugs are pregapped but not correctly, I had to regap them when I installed them the first time.

    I also wondered about the ignition coil. I think I'll look into aftermarket ones, maybe from MSD.

    I am going to go back to Autozone and have them clear the CEL. If it comes on again I am going to change everything - coil, wires, and plugs.

    Thanks everybody for all the help and input.

    Mike
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    Juice - what you said would be true if the lower density air was due to elevation. Go from sea level to Pikes Peak, and you can drop the octane level.

    But when it is due to a rise in temperature, my experience has been that an increase in octane may be required. The problem is that higher temperatures tax the entire engine system. Greater A/C use (higher dwell cycle for the compressor), plus greater heat at the condensor impedes engine compartment cooling, raising coolant temperatures and thus cylinder temps. Lift the hood and feel the blast on a hot day! Overall engine temp is up, as is the intake charge temp from the higher ambient air, plus the heat transfer from all of that duct work. Even the fuel rails heat, which may adversely affect fuel metering. Gasoline becomes less stable at elevated temps, so knocking increases. The knock sensor "hears" it, and retards the timing. Instant loss of power! I also once read that retarded ignition generates more internal heat, so the situation may feed on itself.

    I do believe that this is one of the times when an engine might indeed benefit from slightly higher octane, and that the results might be noticeable in both power and fuel economy.

    Steve
  • earthwomanearthwoman Member Posts: 47
    I read a bit on octane and this page is where I read about humidity and Temp upping the octane needs of a car.

    http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/fuels/gas_qanda/api_octane.shtml

    I also do carry loads and go up hills. Considering it is only $2-3.00 more a tankful I might stick with Premium. Any negatives to using it other than wasting money?
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    I followed your link - thanks - pretty much confirmed what I had posted for you. Rarely will you hear your engine knock on a rainy day, as the moisture cools the charge (it takes energy to break the water molecule) and quells pre-ignition.

    At one time, only better fuel had good detergents. These are needed to keep deposits from forming on intake valves which can interfere with the consistency of fuel/air mixing. But minimum govt standards probably insure an adequate level in most all fuels today.

    I use regular 90+% of the time, and add a tank of mid or premium when I plan on doing something taxing. I don't think you will go wrong with this strategy.

    Steve
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Nope.

    Don't believe the guy that works for an oil company, though. :)

    (just teasing.)

    -Colin
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    Explain!!! Nope to what!!! TELL ME - don't keep me in suspense. You have my ear...

    Steve
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Steve,

    You got your reply in as I was typing. I was replying to Rebecca's 'it won't hurt' question with a simple "nope."

    Don't have any issue with what you said... other than adding that it does take much more than one tank for an engine to "learn" it has premium if you hear knocking on a tank of regular. If you hear knock, YES, the right thing to do is switch to premium and decrease throttle input at that load / rpm until you've done a few tanks of premium.

    Also, depending on the brand sometimes you can only get the good detergents in premium grades. Chevron's Techron additive is head-and-shoulder above everything else right now, so if you don't have a local Chevron retail outlet, consider buying the additive itself at an autoparts store.

    -Colin
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Don't believe the guy that works for an oil company

    I was gonna say that! LOL

    Chevron uses Techron in every grade, FWIW.

    -juice
  • cptpltcptplt Member Posts: 1,075
    I think I've finally figured out what is wrong with the a/c, not what is causing it but what the "symptom" is!
    To summarize, last year they replaced the condensor on my 98 Legacy as it was leaking badly and it was fine all last summer.The year before that it was real low on refirgerant and so they recharged, put dye in then , which they could tell was leaking from condensor last year.
    This year a few weeks back, it still seemed to be working, though at idle it didn't seem to be as cool as it should be (or was).

    I noticed dye leaking at the drier (they had replaced that last year too). Initially dealer claimed a/c was working fine as it was blowing cold (they measured 49deg) and there was no leak and the dye was left over from last years leak.

    Week later I can see the dye bubbling at the drier. They replace the o rings and recharged. Its even less cool than before now. They top up the refrigerant and put more dye in , suspecting another leak.Initially it was much cooler again.

     But now there is a knocking noise, I think from condensor, they say its the clutch for the belt drive an dnothing to worry about.The knocking noise I think goes away when you rev the engine but then since its noisy its difficult to be sure. While it is nice and icey when the car is moving, when its idling its barely cooling at all.

    Checked my WRX, its blowing 50 deg even after idling for 15 minutes, my Legacy will blow 75 at that point, If I'm at highway speed it blows mid 50's though which is great.
    The dealer I'm dealing with is driving me nuts though they do seem to be trying. But I think they are just clueless. Their techs all look like they just got out of high school. They can never keep any experienced ones.

    So does anyone know why if my system is charged up and not obviously leaking anymore , it can cool adequately when the car is running at speed but nothing happens much at idle and could there be a knocking sound related to the problem!

    I'll give these guys one more try, hopefully guided with some advice from folks here. Otherwise its to another dealer or I'll pay out of pocket and have a real Sube mechanic look at it but I still have my ext warranty till Feb 04!But all this is taking up my time and as they say time is money!
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    Just guessing, but it sounds like the compressor isn't getting adequate power at idle to keep the system charged, hence the 75 degree 'heat'.

    -Brian
  • cptpltcptplt Member Posts: 1,075
    what could do that??? it can't be a ECU problem can it?? I had an acura which had an a/c problem, they wanted 1400 bucks for a new ECU to fix it! Since the engine was shot I didn't get it fixed.
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    condenser needs replacing, again.

    -Colin
  • dave226dave226 Member Posts: 22
    I've completed all but 2 items for the 48000KM service to my 2000 legacy.

    1- Inspect EGR valve and clean passage. Where is this valve and passage?

    2- I've never re programmed the engine control management system. Is this a dealer job or would disconnecting the battery achieve the same result?

    cheers
  • dermotddermotd Member Posts: 1
    I am a new Subaru Outback owner and have always driven manual cars. My problem is that two weeks after owning the car I noticed that the car jerks every time I take my foot off the gas. When I enter the highway and make it up to fifth gear in one run it is fine but even then if I take my foot off the gas there is a jerk from the car. It is so bad in first and second gear city driving is almost impossible. What is the problem?
  • axp696axp696 Member Posts: 90
    Is this your first manual? This is normal behavior. It's how manual transmissions work, because the car remains in gear while an automatic would upshift to a higher gear for cruising, but it is especially noticeable in an AWD drivetrain. I'd suggest learning to ease your foot off the gas, or finding the point on the gas where you can maintain your speed without removing your foot.
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    Let's explore some possibilities: The belt to the compressor runs an outer pulley, which is tied via a magnetic clutch to the pump itself. It should turn on and off (cycle) at regular intervals to maintain adequate pressure in the system ahead of the expansion valve. The expansion valve is located at the entry to the evaporator, and meters liquid freon, allowing only enough in to fully evaporate (make cold air) within the tubing. Too much, and liquid freon could find its way back to the compressor, and blow it's seals (liquids don't compress well, only gases). And overcooling is bad too. If the fins drop below freezing, they ice up, choking off air flow. Strangely enough, freeze-up can make the air feel warm, as it is bypassing the central portion of the evaporator.

    Monitoring the temp of the evaporator and the cold air flow is a thermocouple. If it 'feel' too warm, it tells the expansion valve to open, increasing the freon flow. The increased flow drops the head pressure more rapidly, and the compressor is told to run more continuously (greater 'on' time compared to the 'off' time). So from this, you can see that at idle in the sun, the expansion valve should be near wide open, and the compressor should be on almost continuously. At highway speed the compressor should be loafing. A bad thermocouple, or poor placement (shook loose and dropped) can give poor performance.

    This info is also fed back to the ECU, which, among other things, ups the idle speed to compensate for the compressor's drag on the engine. The slightly increased idle also increases the compressors efficiency greatly - some simply do a poor job (especially as the seals wear) at 600 rpm yet really come alive at 800 rpm. You should see it on the tach, and feel it.

    Watch the clutch - you should see the center portion spin when you hear the click, and disengage when it de-energizes. If it blows warm yet you hear a lot of fast cycling (every 1-2 seconds), or if it is simply off most of the time, something is messed up in the system logic. Maybe the strange sound you hear is the clutch trying to engage but slipping? System voltage is lowest at idle. As Brian said, maybe the clutch isn't getting enough power to engage solidly. Or as Colin suggested, the 'new' condensor might have a problem such as a clog. If they didn't get out all of the moisture when they opened the system last, you could get internal icing as well. Without a gauge set, A/C problems are difficult to diagnose.

    At least this might give you a better understanding of what to look for.

    Steve
  • earthwomanearthwoman Member Posts: 47
    Fibber, Locke2c and Juice- thank you for the input and info on fuel octane. Much appreciated.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Dave: I wonder if that's the same thing as a PCV valve. That's on the top of the engine. It's a one-way valve, and should allow air out, but not in.

    I went ahead and changed that at 30k miles. The old one was still working. You can actually blow into it, in both directions, to test it. Clean it first, of course.

    I would not reset the ECU, not if everything is working well. Try this, put the key in and look for the check engine light. Then turn her on, and that light should come off (obviously). That's it, you've "checked" the system, note that in your service records.

    Just changed the oil in the Subie and in the Miata. I love how easy it is with the Forester because of the clearance you have to work. The Miata is so low, and the oil filter is a pain to get to (I burn my arms every time).

    So, thanks to Subaru, only one arm is burned, not both! ;-)

    -juice
  • spickynitzspickynitz Member Posts: 3
    My wife's '95 Outback has suddenly lost power on the freeway 4-5 times in the past 1.5 years.

    She'll be zooming along in traffic and with no warning the check engine light will be flashing, there's no power (even floored), the engine runs rough (bucking) and the rpms are high (~5000). So far each time she's been able to make it to the side of the road safely. Once it has been turned off and restarted the car is OK (check engine light on). My wife says she's just lucky she hasn't gotten killed yet.

    Our dealer has never found anything except the computer says misfire. They've gone over the ignition thoroughly, replaced oxygen sensor(s) and so on. The last work they tried was to remove carbon on/near the intake valves with compressed air but "misfire" happened again. We've drawn the line at replacing the heads since they can't guarantee that'd fix it.

    A radio program she heard recently said that it's a known problem that doesn't happen on Subarus (super boo-boos?) made after '96.

    Anyone ever heard of this? I happen to own an identical '95 Outback (manufactured a few days later) but mine has been fine. Has anyone out there got a fix or a similar experience?

    Thank you very much.
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    PVC = Positive Crankcase Ventilation. This draws piston ring blowby, moisture in the oil, oily mist vapors, etc., out of the crankcase and into the intake manifold. The PVC valve is easy to get to - screwed on the drivers side top between the air cleaner box and the ignition coil.

    EGR = Exhaust Gas Recirculation. This is an attempt (IIRC) to control NOx (?) by dropping combustion temperatures by feeding some of the exhaust gas back into the intake manifold. I really don't know where (or if) this is employed on these engines, although I assume it is. Look for a tube running from an exhaust manifold (or the crossover pipe itself) and the intake tract downstream of the throttle butterfly. I will look tonight and see if I can identify it.

    STeve
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    There is no EGR on PhaseII engines or later. This 'feature' went away in 2000 when the last of the original 2.5 DOHC engines ceased to be. Newer engines meet all emissions specs without the assistance of EGR.

    Here's the PCV:
    http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15- - - 5174

    All EJ series engines use the same PCV valve.

    -Colin
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Maybe they meant PCV instead of EGR. It is a serviceable item.

    -juice
  • ffsteveffsteve Member Posts: 243
    Does the Subaru have an idle cutout for the a/c? My old Tercel used to switch off the a/c altogether when idling. Similar to fibber's description, you could hear the click of the a/c clutch engagement (and feel the little engine bog down) when just pressing the gas pedal a small amount. But I have not experienced this with my Outback.

    Is there another sensor that prevents the clutch from engaging for any other reason at low rpms?

    Steve
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    Thanks for saving me from a search for something that isn't there!

    No EGR? Wonderful. I have always wondered what [non-permissible content removed] thought that one up. The very thought of intentionally feeding poison back into an engine appalled me. My first encounter was when my father brought home a new '73 Ford. Prior years didn't use it. Absolutely killed driveability. It used a vacuum controller to turn it on just off idle, which caused the engine to bog. Once I understood it all, I added a vacuum delay valve to give a few seconds of relief.

    And it played havoc with reliability. In those days the exhaust was routed to a aluminum spacer plate below the carb, which would rot out in a few years, often damaging the carb itself.

    Good to see we can control with electronics and eliminate these old style patches.

    Steve
  • stevekstevek Member Posts: 362
    my experience is showing that there is an A/C cutout in the Subaru, but it is when you accelerate and need more power, the compressor is cut out.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I disagree, the 2.2l was actually far more reliable than the 2.5l that replaced it. It may be one of Subaru's best engines ever.

    A flashing CEL is a serious issue, I suspect it's the ECU failing. The dealer probably reset it, if not, I would do that myself.

    You might also benefit from the Single Point Ground modification that was discussed on Nabisco a while ago. That seemed to exorcise any electrical gremlins a few people had.

    Dermot: I agree that's normal behavior. Remember, you let off the gas and you have engine braking affected all 4 wheels, you certainly will slow down pretty quick.

    -juice
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    I dislike the jerk so much that I usually clutch and throw it in nuetral before the backsnap. You also will find that lower revs will greatly decrease the backsnap--keep the engine rpms less than 3000 rpm when you see a potential slowdown ahead. The 2.5l is very torquey at 2000 rpm and most of my driving is between 2000-3000 rpm.

    John
  • jlemolejlemole Member Posts: 345
    was passed with flying colors, so the service writer has no explanation as to why I might be noticing a drop in coolant levels. Now I'm second guessing myself. I'll have to watch more closely and keep a log. Can a pressure test rule out an HG problem???

    Also had the undercoating recall -- ah, the smell of fresh rustproofing!

    And...replaced a belt tensioner that was creating a small racket.

    Jon
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    They never did a pressure test on my car, but I bet it would have passed. The observable evidence was deemed good enough. I was adding maybe 4 oz of antifreeze mix every week or two, while watching the stain grow behind cyl #4. It was very slow seepage, and I have my doubts that the leakdown test they perform would really be sensitive enough to pick that up.

    Steve
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Well after sitting for 6 weeks I finally got it back working. I thought I burst a PS line/hose back in June, so I parked it til I had time to check it out. Finally had time yesterday and found that a clamp rusted out and that was the cause of the hose coming off the hardline. So about 1hr today and $.50 hose clamp and I'm back in bizness.

    -mike
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I need to take the nail out of the left rear tire and get the magnaflow resonator installed so that it doesn't sound like a fartcan anymore!

    -mike
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    Get the driver's seat adustment working again :D

    -Dave
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    And now I need some parts for the driver's window. Heard something snap inside as I put up the window yesterday. Now it won't go up or down :( luckily it's closed.

    -mike
Sign In or Register to comment.

Your Privacy

By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our Visitor Agreement.