Subaru Crew Problems & Solutions

locke2c

Mike, OBD2 gives you a 5 digit error code, you just have to have a scan tool to see it. And even if you did have one, what are you going to do when you dig up something like "MISFIRE #3"?

-Colin

paisan

My point is that if it is misfire #3, I'll know I need to get it done quickly, and or check to make sure that the plug wire is on, and that there is no tear in the wire etc. Things like gas caps, etc. also are easily fixed by the user, rather than wasting a day off of work to bring it to the dealer, and usually wait a week or 2 for an appointment, etc. That tool costs a ton of money (IIRC about $500+) Why can't they just have a display of sorts? Also what about when it goes out of warranty? If it's something like bad O2 sensor or other enviro crappola, since I don't have to pass emissions where I live, I'd probably pass on the expensive repair on an older car.

-mike

locke2c

Come on now, you want that kind of readout and the average car nowadays doesn't have any more gauges than water temp and a low oil pressure idiot light.

Without a functioning oxygen sensor, you're going to get very bad gas mileage. Oxygen sensors aren't expensive and they're no more difficult to replace than a sparkplug anyway.

-Colin

paisan

Here O2 sensors cost anwhere from $100-$400 to get replaced. I'm just saying that it would cost them almost nothing to have a little readout with the 4 digit code so that people aren't stuck.

-mike

ateixeira

The problem is ODB2 had to "dumb it down" for the lowest common denominator.

Touch-up paint comes in a small bottle a little bit bigger than a nail polish container. Works the same way, though. $4 from...oops, I really miss Darlene.

AC power - I have used my cell phone there and it works and charges the phone. A notebook computer crashed when I started the ignition once, though it could be the charger (works fine all other times).

-juice

anibalb

Hello folks,

I did a lot of driving on my OB this weekend as I had visitors from the East Coast. OB did fine except for one of the speakers making a noise every so often. If you can say this really fast, you will know what I mean:

ch ch ch ch ch ch..... It does this noise really fast. But it happens so randomly and is quiet. Not a loud noise. We can't tell if it is the speaker in the back door or the tweeter in the back by the trunk. Or if it is a speaker at all. But, what else would it be? All the speakers work. Not sure how to pinpoint the problem. Anyone have any ideas or suggestions? I would really appreciate them. Soon enough will be time for my first oil change!

Old Subaru's used to have a light that read off the code of the CE light. I am not sure what the new ones do. There used to be a little flashing light with a morse code of some type. That is how it worked on my 90 Loyale. One time the light went on and I lifted the mat looked at light and called a garage and asked what was the code for e.g., "3 fast flashes and 1 slow one". They said it was O2 sensor. Made sense since light went off after replacing it. They are expensive!

On my 90 Accord with 161K the light has not yet gone on! I must do a great job at maintaining it. Any help on the speaker noise will be great!! Thanks.

ateixeira

Anibal: that is not surprising. OBD came into effect in 1995 IIRC, so more error codes came into play. Now we have OBDII, which is even more strict.

You just can't compare pre-OBD cars to new ones like that.

-juice

anibalb

Juice,

Any idea about the speaker noise. I can't take it back to the dealer unless I can spot the problem. It is annoying! Any ideas?

subaru_team

Do you notice it going over bumps? One speaker? It could just be a loose connection. Try to note when you hear it and let the dealer know how to duplicate it. They should be able to fix you up quickly.

Patti

subaru_team

systems. It seems that everything has gotten so complicated. The worst part is, when you get a code, isolate the problem, fix it and then run it, you could get another code for another "fix". The codes can be really broad so the diagnostics can be a bug. I almost flinch when I hear of a repeat MIL (or CEL if you prefer). Especially when it turns out that there was no emissions problem, but rather a "loose connection" that caused it. Of course, I'm speaking as a fellow Edmunds person, not as a Representative of an automotive company.

Patti

miksmi

Patti, MIL = ?

..Mike

subearu

Would it then be practical to somehow incorporate a ODB scan tool device somewhere into the dash? What's $500 onto the total invoice of the car? Or, make it an option?

That way if the message said "Gas Cap Loose", the driver could fix it themself. If it said "O2 SENSOR", then you make a trip to the dealer. Simple (and cool) enough for this techie.

-Brian

anibalb

Patti,

That is my problem. How to duplicate the noise. I can't. It is so random. I drove for hours and hours yesterday. Everyone in the car was on the look out. We could not really pinpoint it. That is most annoying part.

I have never driven an H6 but am beginning to see the need for it. Especially when the rpm's go to 4.5 in order to maintain speed in California hills. Doesn't happen too often.

kens

Just got back from picking up my Forester from the body shop. The shop did a very good job in repairing the fender and getting everything looking like new. I couldn't tell where they had to repaint the fender. My vehicle was waiting for me fully detailed.

The drive back from Santa Cruz was great. After spending a week in the Trooper, the Forester felt almost like a sports car. I felt like I was riding extremely close to the ground. The steering and throttle felt very responsive. The suspension felt great as it quietly and firmly absorbed road irregularities. The chassis felt so solid as I took the turns. I had a huge grin on my face as I wound through the "hill" on highway 17.

Gotta love the Forester!

Ken

locke2c

MIL = malfunction indicator lamp. That's the clinically correct term for "check engine light", because on some cars it might be labeled "service engine soon", etc.

-Colin

miksmi

Thanks, Colin.

Ken, I love that hill on 17! What a great drive.

..Mike

pattim3

Sorry for the confusion. Colin's explanation is correct. Since some folks call it a CEL and others call it a MIL, I wanted to make sure I used both.

Patti

ateixeira

Ken: they probably repainted the entire fender. That's standard practice. Is the color match OK? Black should not be too hard. Any orange peel texture?

Anibal: can't help you on the speakers, but you may consider replacing them. People who have report far better sound (I listened to Hutch's and I have to agree).

-juice

subaru_team

I like your idea. I think the only hinderance would be the updates that are sent out for reading codes. There is the tool that tells you what the codes are, but the service manuals outline what the codes mean. Providing updates would be the biggest issue that I can think of off the top of my head.

One thing to keep in mind - if the light is on steady and the car is performing okay, it is usually something that can wait until the next service visit. With the gas cap issue, once it is tightened and your fuel level gets to about 1/2 a tank, it will recycle and check again. The light will go out.

With OBDII, the codes are actually stored in the system, so even if it goes out, the dealer can double check it during service to clear the code and confirm that there isn't a bigger issue.

I think the day will come soon where the auto industry gets more self diagnostic tools to help the consumers. But, that's just my opinion.

Have a good one!

Patti

tincup47

I'm sure Federal regulations will prevent MIL codes being available in an in-car display. The whole point of OBD2 is to get cars that are out of emission specs to an authorized emissions repair facility.

kens

juice,

I was told they only repainted part of the fender. I took a very close look after I got home yesterday and they did a very good job in color matching. The black on the Foresters have a slight red tint to it so I was worried about the color matching, but it seemed to have gone okay.

There is a very slight orange peel texture. Kind of looks like very faint "waves" in the clear coat. It's difficult to notice even to my picky eyes -- do you think I should complain?

The shop also repainted the entire front bumper so it looks like new -- got rid of some other scratches and rock dings.

I also had them work out a door ding using paintless dent removal. I am very impressed with the results. I can't even see the slightest hint of having a dent in the rear drivers side door.

Ken

ateixeira

What kind of guarantee do they offer? Usually you get lifetime, or at least a few years, so I'd wait and see how it holds up.

I have a dent in the rear pass. door, I ought to consider doing the same.

-juice

kens

juice,

What exactly causes orange-peeling? From what I can see, it's just a very slight imperfection in the texture and not the paint color.

The dent removal cost me an additional $75. I think it was well worth it since I got so used to focusing on that one sore spot. It's like it never happened.

Ken

ateixeira

Orange peel is just a way to descrive the texture in the paint - it can look like the skin of the fruit. It should be smooth. When too-thick layers are applied, you can get runs, splotches, and orange peel finish.

$75 eh? Not bad.

-juice

originalbitman

I'm Mr. Picky and it sounds like you got a great paint job. Orange peel is there on most paint jobs. My Stude truck doesn't have it because it has multiple color coats hand sanded and then buffed. But most (if not all) production car paint jobs have orange peel... it's just a matter of how significant the surface irregularities are and how well you can see them. Pull the car into a garage with flourescent lights and you will see the orange peel and swirl marks quite easily. When I picked up my 01 GT it was in the service bay under lots of flourescent lights. I was a little bummed at all the orange peel. But when I got it home and parked it next to the 00 it looked great... out in the sun.

bit

anibalb

Hi folks,

I think orange peel is the opposite of overspray. When they try to avoid overspray thet put extremely thin coats of paint and if they don't use enough clear coat then you get orange peel. Usually you can eliminate the orange peel with more coats of clear coat. but unless you allow some time in between for it to dry some you will be left with overspray. It is a very thin balance. It once took me and a professional painter 8 hours to paint my VW rabbit! Most places paint a car in hours!

You can always remove orange peel by wet sanding the car. But leave that to the professionals!

Like bitman says, it will look fine outside by the sunlight!

kens

bit -- Thanks for the feedback. I actually just went out to the parking lot to look at the paint job again. The fender that wasn't touched did in fact have very slight surface imperfections too. The painted side is just a bit more noticeable with slightly bigger imperfections. Again, I really need to put my face inches away to see it. You'd miss it if you were standing next to the vehicle.

Am I being too picky? Is it unreasonable to ask for a factory quality finish?

Ken

originalbitman

I hate that... OCD as my wife says. I obsess way too much over the details that you mention. But I am learning to be better about it and today I would live with what you have. I bet if you looked at some of the other panels on your car and in different light you might see the repaint as being similar. Plus you have to consider wether you really want to have them strip and repaint again and take the chance of something else happening. To me a straight panel, no overspray, and everything put back together correctly would be more import than a slight difference in surface.

bit

anibalb

I agree with Bit.

The reason a body shop will never be like the original paint is because most body shops don't have dust free facilities and state of the art technology! So to have the shop do it again does not warrant they will do it better. No one is going to put their face inches from the car and say nice paint job.

But if they see the whole car under a tree on a sunny day they might look at the glare and say nice paint job. So no need to worry. If by standing next to it you can't notice I would leave it alone. Don't fix it if it ain't broke!!!! As they say...........

kens

Thanks for the feedback. I suspect my super-picky side is coming into play. I'll have some of my friends take a look at it and get their opinion. My wife saw it last night and thought it looked great. I think I just need more data points.

BTW, the body shop does a lot of Subarus and was highly recommended by Santa Cruz Subaru. That was the main reason why I went so far out of my way to have it done there. Off topic, but the manager who took on my work order also owns a WRX wagon.

Ken

originalbitman

Body shops can and do do better work than the factory. Painting technology short of robots exist in quality shops... including dust free environments.

bit

bassist

Question about the clutch mechanism on my Subaru,
or any MT for that matter:

I've heard recommendation to not use the clutch when stopped on an incline... does this mean to put into neutral and not engage the clutch, and to use brakes or emergency brakes only? If so why?

bluesubie

I'm guessing that means don't release the clutch half way while on a hill to hold the car. That would cause wear on the clutch.
Yes, the best trick on a steep hill is to use the e-brake and slowly let out as you're accelerating.
Dennis

locke2c

Slipping the clutch on hills like that can easily glaze a stock clutch's organic lining. The handbrake technique is a smart idea.

-Colin

ateixeira

Ken: I'll bet if you take a close look at that shop they have a down draft spray booth that is dust-free. Most body shops do, even if it's a little room hidden in the back.

They cannot bake the finish like the factory can, but given it's about 3 years newer than the factory paint, it should be cool.

I just wish they painted my entire Miata instead of just a few panels!

-juice

hondafriek

I doubt that you would be more picky than me, my wife calls me the customer from hell, I will not under any circumstances accept shoddy work, why should you they are being paid to put your car into pre accident condition, however if there was no orange peel it would probably stand out even more given that the rest of your paint will have orange peel. I agree with Bit. my new 2001 GT wagon when parked under flourescent lights has way more orange peel than I would like however in natural light it is not too bad, so my advice is to forget about in a couple of weeks you will not even notice.
Cheers Pat.

kens

Pat -- You sound just like me -- the customer from hell. I also have an extremely low tolerance for shoddy work. I'll gladly pay extra or go out of my way for quality.

juice -- Yeah, I think I'm being way to picky. I'm sure the unknowing person wouldn't be able to pick it out.

Ken

snizave

As some of you may remember, i just recently replaced the clutch on my 92 legacy. Wow! It is a definate improvement, but the hillholder seems to be acting strange. The hillholder function didn't really work at all on the previous clutch, but now it definately does, and i like it, except that many times when i am backing out of a parking space, it is engaged and makes the car handle like it is being driven with the emergency brake on. It is annoying when i'm trying to ease out of a spot and the car is all jerky cause the brakes are engaged. Is this normal?

Mike

originalbitman

Come on... that's my title. I was even accused of it right here in the Town Hall.

OCD Master

bit

seamus3

bassist: that is why you have the hill holder mechanism. so you don't have to worry about "working the clutch." or do you even have the hill holder?

snizave: the same thing happens to me when i pull out of my spot in the garage at my apartment. all i try to do is just go real easy on the gas and not use the brake.

ateixeira

My wife is picky in that way. She sends back about half the plates she orders in restaurants. I always taste them too and never find them that bad.

But noone can beat Bit. He's the OCD King.

Though I am picky about my cars. When the Miata was done, I pointed out a few flaws and left it there for some touch-ups. There was a little overspray on some black trim, the center wheel cap wasn't replaced, and a loose piece of trim actually broke when they tried to secure it. It's fine now. I imagine lots of customers wouldn't even have noticed.

-juice

hondafriek

Do you think we should start our own club, maybe we could call it demanding customers INC.Ha!Ha!.
Cheers Pat.

ateixeira

The opposite of the "laser-beamers" mentioned in that commercial on TV. Know which one I mean?

-juice

kens

juice, bit: OCD?

originalbitman

Obsessive Complusive Dissorder.

It all started when I had everyone on the list measuring the ride height of their Soobs since mine was about 1/4 inch lower on the left front.

kens

Ah, OCD, of course. Okay, I'm convinced -- you've earned your title. Just keep in mind that there are others not too far behind! ;-)

I think it says something about Subaru when us ultra-picky types are happy with their vehicles.

Ken

leomort

about a week or so ago Midas was running a special on their VSD (?) brake pads. What are these VSD? Are they better than other brake pads?

Leo

nygreg

So does everyone here try to get every drop of oil out during an oil change - and go around wiping the dust off of the engine, hoses, etc????????? Or is it just me?

-Greg

stevek

I even take those hoses off and clean them on the inside. As far as the oil goes, you can not get all the oil out so I remove the pan with each oil change. I also clean and wax all painted surface in the engine compartment. also don't forget when you refill the tires with factory fresh mountain air, they last longer and the car rides smoother.

just kidding

bluesubie

From Midas' website:
"Midas Plus™ brake replacement parts are designed to meet- and in many cases exceed- the performance of the equipment that originally came with your car. Vehicle Specific Design (VSD™) makes them fit better, stop faster and last longer than any other replacement pads. And, they're quieter, too. Thanks to our rigorous quality standards and unmatched installation skills, your brakes will perform as well as the originals- or better!"

The special expires this Saturday. FWIW, I recently had brake pads installed by Meineke. I was very unhappy with the service and the pads are so-so. They are quieter (read: softer) than the stock pads and don't seem perform as well. Not too concerned since I'm leasing. I would go with OEM or better aftermarket if it were me.

Dennis