Subaru Crew Problems & Solutions

colin_l

If you really want the car because it is unique and you can afford to keep it running, then go ahead.

However, if you just need reliable and inexpensive transportation, I would go with a Honda or Toyota assuming that they are available domestically in Barbados. You could be getting into a big headache with an imported Subaru and no local dealers or parts availability.

snoogs51

I guess you got lucky. I know someone else who needed a motor, 40,000 miles, and had to use some connections to get it.

girlcarbuilder

Personally I would consider Toyota which turns out better gas mileage as well. If you can drive a standard, insist on a standard in Toyota as well. Keep your rpms below 2000 most of the time and that car will last a long time.

I have worked on them all, check my profile before you make the final decision. I suggest you make a walk in a junk yard and see what age and mileage different brands come into the junk yard. That will give you an idea how long they last. Subies come in around 170K because most people fail to maintain them correctly. Age is about 15 years. Remember these are all cars given the run of the mill maintenance. The older the car and higher the mileage the better maintained it usually is when compared to its peers. Do not consider wrecked units, because they got in the yard for that reason.

Subies are tough, but the design does require heavy maintenance every 100K or so. Our observation has been to buy and keep it away from the dealer unless you have a very good one or you can locate a well known repair source. Repair shops tend to charge more for vehicles that are not the norm. Dealers tend to do too much of nothing for a lot of money.

One note, why would a car require reconditioning at 25K. Think long and hard on that one. I smell lemon. On reason why we bought new last year, a 09 white Toyota Yaris 5 speed 3 dr. Used cars tend to be way overpriced. They now come in a 5 dr also.

Work hard enough, like me and I got the car down to $13100 with cruise north of Houston and they knew better than to try to load me down with other stuff like credit life, warranties and so on. That same model has not been in the recent recalls. Like you, I used Edmunds to weed out the problems with the unit 3 years before hand and have even addressed its problems on Edmunds. No car comes problem free, the trick is to reduce them.

girlcarbuilder

Even here in the states, the 3 Subies that I maintain in our fleet can be a headache to get parts. 1994, 1997 and 2003. www.rockauto.com comes in handy for most of the parts used here. Subaru tends to be more of a problem for parts at 10 to 15 years. Another reason for Toyota which is more common out on the streets anywhere. I rebuilt an 86 in 2005 and was able to get most of the parts even if from the dealer. That car is now getting tough to get parts for. On Subaru, you are pretty much on your own after age 15. pay attention to when particular drivelines start and end in manufacturing and that gives you some kind of idea how far you can force the parts issue in later years.

kyfdx

I'll personally get your Subaru parts and deliver them to Barbados...

All I will need is for you to send me a plane ticket, each time.. :P

grahampeters

G'day

I owned a Subaru Outback for 5.5 years and loved it. Fabulous car; great to drive and mechanically reliable for first five years. However, once beyond 130,000km (about 80,000 miles) the maintenance costs started to climb. Nothing hugely surprising but parts costs start to get up and it got harder to justify. That situation is exacerbated where spares are scarce. Subarus are also very sensitive, if they have not been maintained carefully by a skilled Subaru shop.

It's no coincidence that Toyotas pop up as the most common vehicle in many harsh environments. I saw a photo of a camel race in Saudi yesterday with all but 2 vehicles Toyotas. In Outback Australia, the vehicle of choice is always a Toyota because parts are readily available and they are so robust that failures are rare.

I have been running a Toyota Kluger for 5.5 years now with 140,000km on it. In contrast to the Subaru, the worst problem I have had with it was the radio rattling. It has gone through two sets of tyres and is about to get its first replacement set of brake pads. Normally I would expect to roll a car over at 3-5 years but, the low maintenance cost has persuaded me to defer this until the maintenance exceeds $3,000 in a month.

Cheers

Graham

girlcarbuilder

Graham, I was amused by reading your personal page......yup you have about seen them all as well.

Kaie, I will add another note. Timing belts are the biggest headache on any of these car makes. Most companies are returning to timing chains. Look at the front of the engine, if it has a timing belt, the cover is most likely black plastic. If it is metal, it most likely is a chain. Now I should point out that chains tend to hold up better long term, but if your foot is heavy they will stretch also and require attention. To ignore a timing chain with slack in it is just as bad news as ignoring an old timing belt.

Subaru's current engine design would require a very long chain if they changed it. Even if and when they do, I would wait for a few years to see if that design change held up.

On the Subaru timing belt, it is serviced every 105K miles. The first change should include replacing crank and cam seals. Second change at 210K should basically include that and service the oil pump, replace water pump, coolant, thermostat and hoses. No matter what it is, this stuff is due no matter the type of valve train you have. If you look carefully in the forums, there are a few high milers out there including my fleet units. But being a car, they have to be maintained! In that same 200K range, you will be needing wheel bearings changed and the oil separator plate replaced. This is the point where Subies should make it to before the costs really take off. But, if you have someone who is working on it not familiar with the car, they can cause more damage than they are worth. That goes with any brand. Like I always say, if a mechanic does not use his reference books, lookout! Things change even with the same make, model from year to year.

ateixeira

Coincidentally, they just did move to a timing chain for the 2011 Forester. It's also back to a DOHC design.

Other models still use a belt.

phil2000

What happens if the fluid in the rear transaxle is not changed for of 150K miles? One dealer says leave it in, the new fluid will be thinner and leak through the seals. He said the cost to change it would be $50. Another dealer said $100.00. I have tried for months to get the plugs out (heat, cold), but since I can not get the car up in the air at home... I am stuck with the dealer.

phil2000

On my Forester, the dealer inspected the brakes and said it was the rotors. These were original rotors that had seen 327,582 miles. They said the rotors had been worn down to the point that they had warped. Replaced front brake pads and rotors with Wearever parts from Advance Auto Parts. It took two hours and I will see how it handle when I go to work in the morning.

142neal

Our 2010 Impreza is doing the same exact thing. Made a recording of it for our records. Dealer verified noise on one service call, but now they say they can't replicate it (what a surprise). Subaru won't do anything about it and told us they have never heard of this problem before. A cursory search of the internet proved that statement wrong.

Did you ever get your problem resolved? If so what did they do to fix it?

Thanks!

lg05legacy

I've recently noticed a Creaking or Groaning type of noise (2005 2.5i Legacy) when I turn my steering wheel left or right while moving forward at low speed (turning at a stop sign, traffic light).

Is this a normal thing to happen with an AWD sedan? I'm getting kinda concerned about this, because I have no idea what the cause is. Thoughts?

ateixeira

Is the power steering fluid OK? Level/smell?

Lube up the sway bar bushings with lithium grease, too. Rubber on metal can make that sort of noise.

carbuff33

NO! I have mailed 2 letters to Subaru and they have not responded to either. Is your car a 5 speed or auto? They have no clue on how to fix it. I have very unhappy.

gjksn

I experienced similar sounds about a year ago on my 2003 Legacy wagon. It was mostly when the steering wheel was cranked all the way one way or the other. There might've been a hopping sensation on mine as well. My dealer replaced the center or rear (can't remember which one without my records) differential. It was still under a Subaru Gold Warranty that had previously covered a very expensive sun/moon roof repair. The new differential seemed to fix it. I am completely mechanically disinclined and could fix nothing myself, but I mostly trust my dealer. In 8 years, they are the only people to have done any work on the car.

If/when you take in for service, you could at least ask to check those differentials.

Good luck.

phil2000

What happens if the fluid in the rear transaxle is not changed for of 150K miles? One dealer says leave it in, the new fluid will be thinner and leak through the seals. He said the cost to change it would be $50. Another dealer said $100.00. I have tried for months to get the plugs out (heat, cold), but since I can not get the car up in the air at home... I am stuck with the dealer.

xwesx

That's a long time, Phil. I would change it; I seriously doubt there will be seal issues as a result of the change. I strongly suspect that if you do not change it, the result will be (continued) accelerated wear of the gears. Given your plans to continue using the vehicle for a while, I would go with the preventative maintenance!

Honestly, you should be able to have that job done at ANY shop. I would go with a reputable independent (does NOT have to be Subaru-specific!).

ateixeira

Rear diff comes off with a 1/4" drive socket, right? Just get a really long ratchet handle and/or a cheater bar. Drive the rear wheels up on ramps for access.

Important: remove the Fill hole first. If you remove the Drain hole first, and then can't get the Fill loose, there's no way to add fluid back.

To answer the question "What happens", I bought a used Miata and after 8 years, the fluid looked like chocolate pudding. Totally nasty. It only had 28k miles, but it was the age, I guess, and the gear oil was totally wasted.

Filled it up with about a quart of synthetic 75w90 and never had a problem. I had to buy a hand-held oil pump but it was under $10.

Here's a great step-by-step pictorial for a Miata, though any rear diff shouldn't be that much different. Including Subarus (I've done a Forester before):

http://www.miata.net/garage/trans/13.htm

xwesx

AJ - it most likely has just a 1/2" receiver (square) hole on it. That's the way all four of my Subaru's have been.

Interestingly, my '69 Chevy only has one hole on it... the upper one! If you want to drain/refill without pulling the back cover plate off, you have to pump the old fluid out! Talk about lack of forethought....

saedave

Interestingly, my '69 Chevy only has one hole on it... the upper one! If you want to drain/refill without pulling the back cover plate off, you have to pump the old fluid out! Talk about lack of forethought

Probably NOT lack of forethought: deliberate cost reduction typical of General Motors for many years. Even extra short tail light wires were a Chevy trademark! Remember when they put the cheaper Chevy V8 in Oldsmobile.

ateixeira

I meant 1/2", thanks for correcting me.

I even went out and bought a long-armed 1/2" ratchet drive to do it the first time.

Weird cost cutting, indeed.

fendertweed

I would change this asap ... it's not an auto tranny where you do have to worry more once you've gone way past what should have been done ... go for it.

phil2000

I have tried and tried to do it myself.

Using a breaker bar with an extension pipe. WD40 and heat with a torch, applied freeze spray. If I could only get the car up in the air so I can put my 200 pounds on the wrench.

hesper

Patti,
I went through the appropriate channels for my 2010 outback problems and ended up contacting 1-800-subaru3. Your customer service reps who initially listened to and documented my issues never resolved my mechanical issues....in fact they never called me back and when I contacted them after waiting 8 weeks for their response said they concluded they would not fix the problems.... They did not have the courtesy to call me to discuss the issue they ignored the problem

rsholland

Do you realize that you're responding to to an 8-year-old post? Patti hasn't been here in maybe 4 or 5 years.

Bob

girlcarbuilder

Yup, we have noted this on two units, 1994 and 1997 Legacy's. The 1994 is due for struts and the 97 had struts replaced and started doing it after the struts where replaced. They both seem to do it when turning and hitting a small bump. We found that we could duplicate the noise by turning the wheel to the side that it makes it and bounce the car.

The thinking here is most likely the upper strut mount bearing and/or the spring making the noise. As for correction, both noises have been assign to a wait and see what happens in maintenance. In other words, no apparent reason for concern. We blame it on car arthritis!

Whenever you replace struts, always replace the boot, bumper and top mount units.

As for gear oil replacement in another post. Change it. Pull the fill plug first, then the drain plug. By changing it, you get rid of small particles of metal that increase wear that make more particles to accelerate the wear cycle!

logtrail

My wife has a 2006 Forester that she likes. Extended warrantee expires in a year so we have been thinking about a new one. Questions: when is the new model
due ( I think that there is a 5 year cycle) ? anything in the works for an awd diesel or flex fuel? My wife loves sitting up high in the Forester, so what what is the passenger height in f an Outback vis a vis a Forester? (I'm a fan of 6 cylinders)

saedave

There is a new engine in the 2011 Forester that will make 4 cylinders more responsive to drive with slightly better fuel economy and probably better long term reliability. September is said to be the introduction.

While I haven't seen measurements, my 2010 Forester's "H" point seems higher than it did when I drove the 2010 Outback. The Outback is enough wider (outside only) that it might be a negative. Inside dimensions for passengers are now almost identical for Forester and Outback.

colin_l

Subaru has a very nice 2.0L turbodiesel being used in Europe. I certainly hope they are going through US emissions certification for it because it would be a great powerplant for all their vehicles.

I haven't heard anything about FlexFuel and honestly I would not worry about it. FlexFuel, the ability to run on normal 87 unleaded or on E85 (85% ethanol), consists of sensors and other modifications to the fuel system but mainly in significantly larger fuel injectors and fuel pump. That's right: E85 usually gets about 30% less fuel economy than 87 unleaded because of the very low chemical fuel content.

Even with heavy subsidies E85 costs more per mile than normal unleaded.

The only thing useful I see being done with E85 is that high-tech hot rodders are capitalizing on it's roughly 120 octane rating to run engines in an extreme state of tune, such as turbocharging to near/over 30psi. (Typical with 91/93 octane would be no more than 20-22 psi.)

ateixeira

Yep, saw a tuner GT-R that ran exclusively on ethanol and they mentioned the octane. I'm sure they run crazy-high compression on those.

fibber2

Sorry, Phil, I haven't been on line most of the month.

I replaced my originals with Powerslot Cryo's and Hawk HPS pads a few years back. No matter how careful I am, I still get pad material transfer onto the rotor in patches, and that causes the pulsation and steering wheel shake. It's not really 'warpage' as much as it is thickness variation. They just run hot (undersized brakes for the weight of the car), and even a bit of pressure sitting at a light will do it. I try to release, use the parking brake, shift into neutral - it still happens, and only on this car!

I have a hill that I use for 'brake cleaning', and this usually strips off the high spots and restores smooth operation. And then a week later it's back....

The worst situation is when I put her away wet and she sits for a week (like when I'm traveling). Then I'm left with a beautiful rusted pad impression, or should I say a raised spot (iron oxide is less dense). That takes a bit more effort to smooth out.

phil2000

The problem only showed up this year. It has been 2k miles since they were replaced and braking is smooth.

rebel71

Hi all,
My bought (new) Legacy has paint chips on the hood. I tried to cover with touch up paint put it doesn't look good. I got an estimate to paint it between $400-700 depending on if they have to blend the hood to the sides of car. I plan to keep it till it dies. Is it worth the investment to paint hood only to have it be hit by rocks again?It seems like the paint chips easily. I got my first one within a month of owning it. I'm on my second windshield freeway driving is a killer as are large trucks/semi's.The drivers heated leather seat bottom is showing the impression of the round heating element. Would any of you replace this?Yes, this bugs me. I guess in time it'll wear out again, if I replace the seat bottom. The car is under warranty, I don't think this is a warranty item though. It makes the seat look cheap and worn. I don't think the quality of leather is there nor the padding meaning not much of it. I'm stuck with the car and can't trade. You live and learn next time cloth seats without heater. My 96 Impreza was such a joy, held up well. I'm just trying to keep it in good condition. Thank you

ateixeira

I would leave it be.

No way would I spend $4-700 only to have a small bit of gravel fall off a landscaping truck in front of me and chip it again. :sick:

kyfdx

I recently bought an '06 car that was in fantastic shape... except for rock chips on the bumper and hood..

And, it wasn't so bad.. except the touch-up paint wasn't exactly the right color red, and it wasn't done that well, regardless of color...

I took it to the body shop, and they wanted $600 to refinish and paint the hood... But, I'm not really anal about those kinds of things, and the last thing I wanted to do was drop $600 on a car that I just bought...

So, he said he would clean out and re-do all of the previous touch-up spots with custom-matched paint.. for..... $100!! That's cheaper than having your car detailed..

Does it look good as new? Nope.. but, I'd have to point it out for you to notice... They did a really nice job for basically next to nothing.. and, I'm happy with it..

snoogs51

Have a 2004 outback sport. not impressed with paint. or just plain paint wear from air friction. seats are cloth and show more than acceptable wear for only 80,000. have a 1996 impala SS with 160,000 miles that shows less wear. Car does handle great in snow, but overall have been disappointed in it. will run it until it is time to junk it.

ateixeira

To be fair that Impala SS was in a totally different price class.

Subarus in that price range are also a lot nicer - an Outback or Tribeca or Legacy GT has thicker carpets and padded fabric headliners, and other nicer materials that would be more durable.

Compare your Impreza to a Cobalt and the Subaru would come out favorably, IMHO.

fibber2

Painting chips with a brush is extremely difficult. I found a fine tip paint pen from Zig Painty in a craft store that is a reasonably dark green, but not a perfect match. But, it enables fine detailing and paint buildup within the chip. Then, I finish the job with a fine felt tip permanent marker in an ultra dark green that is a closer match - just to add some pigment to the surface of the paint pen. Net is my hood ('02 OBW), which collects a few dings each week despite the use of a plexyglass deflector, looks pretty darn good.

ateixeira

I've heard people suggest wooden tooth picks.

Also, the paint is so thick that some people use thinner, then do multiple thin coats.

Out of the touch-up container they're usually thick and goopy.

snoogs51

I don't know. I paid 24,000 for my Impala in 1996 and paid 20,000 for my Outback sport in 2003. Can't say price is that much different. Age, yes, I'm talking about a 14 year old car verses a 7 year old car and the Impala wins hands down, in the normal wear and tear department. And the Impala was been driven a whole lot harder in it's early years, compared to the Impreza. The dealer also had to put a short block in at 32,000 miles, becauses of piston slap. The Impala has had NO major engine work and still runs strong. But, that is not what I was trying to say. I just was saying that over all, the Subaru paint and interior has not held up, in comparison to other cars I have owned. My intensions are to run the Subaru until it won't run any more. It is the best thing have ever driven in the snow, and the Impala is the worse.

tonys2000

This is NOT an unknown problem. There is a Subaru Technical Bulletin #03-52-03R
That refers to this. Our 2001 Legacy Outback has had this problem intermittently for
years. The pedal first stuck to the floor up at Tahoe, just like Ueyn described.
It also gets worse at sea level when it is hot.
Hydraulic clutches are nothing new but Subaru is the worst I' ve experienced.
We had the clutch replaced years ago for juddering. Later I believe the
dealer replaced slave cyl because of sponginess. Last weekend I changed brake
and clutch fluid. After behaving well for about a week the sponginess has returned with a vengeance. On a hot afternoon two days ago, the pedal went to the floor and
stayed there. I pulled it up and pressed again and it stayed. Repeated multiple times. I bled again and it seemed ok until today, another hot day. Again pedal stuck to the floor.

TonyS2000
Sept 26 2010

ateixeira

I still don't think a Cobalt (OK, Cobalt SS) would have held up any better.

snoogs51

overall, I have been disappointed in my Subaru, paint waer, interior wear, and and motor. My son has a 1998 Cavalier (pre colbalt) that has 180,000 miles and has held up better than the Subaru. The only difference is I take better care of my cars than he does.

ateixeira

Sorry to hear that!

thor14

I have a little problem with the CD player in my new Outback (2011). I've only owned it for one week, but twice now the CD player has not swallowed the CD when I try to put it in. And there is no CD in the player at the time.

When I turn off the car and restart, then it works again. Its happened twice in my first week of ownership.

How many more times should I wait before I take it to the dealer. If/when it does happen again, I plan to keep the car running all the way to the dealer to prove to the mechanic that I'm not making stuff up.

Any thoughts?

xwesx

My suspicion is that it is only going to get worse, so I would take it in. You're right - with these hit and miss problems, you do need to take it in and have someone, like the service manager, see it while it is malfunctioning. If you take it to them and say, "one in a while the CD player won't take a disc," and just leave them the keys, you can bet the response will be "couldn't replicate problem."

phil2000

On Monday the 4th at 7:15 am, I looked down at my temperature gauge and saw it pegged past red line. With my heart racing I pulled over. Found that the radiator developed a leak and almost all the coolant had leaked out. Since it was raining, I go some water from a low area in the grass and spent the next 2.5 hours limping home. The engine would overheat every five miles filling the overflow tank. When it cooled off it would suck the coolant back into the radiator.

Tomorrow, I start to take the head off. What is the easiest way to get the engine out? I took the head assembly out before, but had to work between the fender. And this time I have to do both sides.

Also, what is the best method to torque the head down? I have trouble keeping track of back 180 degress and forward 90 degrees.

Help from anyone is greatly appreciated.

fibber2

Sounds like a job for our secret agent Wes in Fairbanks, Alaska.

APB for Wes! I can see the 'bat' lamp playing on the low hanging clouds in Gotham City tonight!

colin_l

Ouch. Based on personal experience, I bet your heads and possibly deck are warped. The EJ series doesn't seem to handle overheating well. (What all aluminum engine does?)

I would shop around for a used longblock, especially considering your high mileage.

xwesx

In this case, I have to agree with Colin - your best bet may be replacement of the long block. That said, nearly all the work you need to do to get the car to the point of installing a new long block must be done either way, so might as well pull the heads and see how it looks.

First of all, and I know you're not going to want to hear this Phil, I strongly recommend that you either buy, borrow, or rent an engine puller and stand! This job, especially with both heads, is MUCH easier to do with the engine out of the car and I cannot stress that enough. Oh, hah! Now I see that you already had that in mind: What is the easiest way to get the engine out?

Okay, so answering the questions you asked instead of ranting, here we go:

Getting the engine out is a piece of cake. Seriously - it is the easiest engine I've ever removed. First, pop the hood bolts (four) and set the hood across your roof rails, then take yourself some handy masking tape and a pen... and label everything! If it is a connector, hose, crud, you name it, if it is going to come off, label it. That way, you don't have to rely on your memory to reinstall. You don't need the technical names either, just something that makes sense (such as fuel line upper, fuel line lower, sensor rear engine, etc).

Once you have that out of the way, start at the bottom and work your way up: drain fluids, disconnect exhaust manifolds, engine mounts, lower/side transaxle bolts, torque converter bolts (is yours an auto?) - which you'll need to turn the engine manually a time or two with a 22mm socket on the front of the crankshaft to expose all of them (there should be four IIRC), and lower radiator hose. Then come to the top and pull all of the accessories, intake manifold, radiator, and transaxle support arm (it attaches the bell housing to the fire wall).

You don't need to detach the hoses from the power steering pump or A/C compressor - just move them off to the side over the fenders and use some 14-gauge or baling wire to hold them steady. The intake manifold, likewise, does not need to be disconnected from the throttle cables - you can just lay a blanket (old one!) or cardboard across your windshield and set the unit face down up there.

Now, put a floor jack under your transmission pan and lift just a little to support that unit. Attach your engine to the puller, lift it a few inches until it slips free of the engine mounts, and then readjust your floor jack to continue supporting the transaxle before pulling the engine forward to free it from the bell housing. All told, about two hours (maybe three to account for the labeling).

I tend to install in the same fashion as I removed it... not reverse (e.g. - start at the bottom and work up).

Torquing the heads: I'm not sure I can help you with this one. I just used frame of reference on my engine, making sure each head I did was facing up at the time (by rotating it on the engine stand). Note the starting position, and move back 1/2 turn, then forward 1/4 turn. Working from a top-down approach, you eliminate the perspective problems that would be at play trying to do it with the engine in the car.

Keep us posted! I'm glad to help in any way I can. Unfortunately, the page I used to have up that detailed the process I took on my engine is no longer hosted. I can probably activate it somewhere else if you think it would help.