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Comments
80k seems early for this problem, but the crank seal leak at 62k seemed early too, and not covered under warranty either. This Sub is becoming a pretty expensive vehicle to maintain--not up to my expectations or other Japanese quality, but still great to drive and has never stranded me, at least.
Dennis
The service manager is Diane Barry. Service phone is 908-782-2025. Another dealer may not get involved if your in the middle of a dispute though. You could see if they would have a "fresh" look at it (not getting involved if you have a case).
Dennis
hmm.
runs great though... trying to decide if I should bring it in or by an OBDII scanner. or reset the ECU again and see if the MIL comes back.
-Colin
I'd bring it in only because it's free and it won't hurt to learn what the code meant.
-juice
-Colin
-juice
I'll try to find your case tomorrow and I'll review it with the Team Leader for the your area of the country. As far as the C. S. Rep. you spoke with, they technically gave you the right answer (1 qt. per 1000 is within industry standard specifications). However, I can see where you would be concerned. Is your dealer doing an oil consumption test?
I'll see what we can do to try and make you happy. It was really wrong and uncalled for the way the dealer responded to your concers and your comments on buying a WRX. Hopefully, we'll be able to win your business back.
Thanks to Frank P. for getting me on track with your post. I'm sorry about the problem, but you can be sure that I will work with the Team Leader and Rep. for your area of the U. S. to try to get this resolved.
Thanks for your patience!
Patti
Also, you may have noticed that the customer letter states that SOA will replace the spring if any rust or corrosion occurs for the life time of the car. I'm kind of proud that they are backing up their understanding of the issue with that kind of commitment. It's much more than you would see some other companies do. I know that for a fact, because I checked it out.
Have the dealer check the springs. If they are corroded, we'll take care of it. If you have a problem later, we'll take care of it then.
I understand where you would think that we should just replace all of the springs. If we found that we had a high failure rate or any indicator that there were a lot of affected vehicles, we would do that. With the information that we have, we do not expect to see many vehicles without the appropriate paint application. To incur cost to blanket replace all springs would not be fiscally responsible for us as a company and for the customer's that expect us to keep our vehicles affordable. We are very committed to our customer's and we would not take a risk if we saw one. If you have a problem with a dealer related to this issue, just call us at 1-800-SUBARU3 and I'm sure we can straighten it out.
Thanks for the post!
Patti
I live in Martinsburg, WV and am equidistant from both. Just wondering if one is better in the service department than the other.
Thanks
Dukephoto in WV
Frank
You could if you pulled them out. I just feel some obligation to inspect this issue myself...
-Colin
Dennis
I saw your message on the board. Thank you for your support. Are you a Subaru employee? I am not sure. But I appreciate your interest.
I have been reading about the starting of a "case" with Subaru. I have only talked to one rep. so far and they did not mention anything about a case. At this point, I am waiting on a call back from a regional rep. (I think). Phil Rode is who I talked to and he said that probably Jody Cullen would call me within 24 to 48 hours. 48 hours is approaching.
The receipt I have from the dealership lists procedure and parts. It reads: COMPRESSION TEST AND VISUAL INSPESTION REVEALED NO PROBLEM
ADJUST OIL TO PROPER LEVEL
MANUFACTURER STATES 1 QT. OF OIL EVERY 1000 MILES ACCEPTABLE.
Stating that there was a visual inspection tells me basically nothing. I see from looking at the bolts on the cylinder heads that they were never budged. You can tell by the fine bits of corrosion and dust which are still present and take a while to build up. Also, you can see the edges of the head gaskets which are still dirty and by no means new. So I know the valves were not visually inspected. That is what needs to be done assuming compression test was within specs. I have no way of knowing this for sure as the reults for each cylinder are not listed.
There are only a few possibilities for a problem like this. Everything is pointing to a problem with the valves.
Bob Osterof at Liberty Subaru told me that a new valve cylinder head was being ordered for one side of the engine. Then they changed there minds. After having the car for 5 days, Bob told me that upon telling the person who was working on my car that I had places a few drops of oil on the spark plug threads during re-installation. This caused the mechanic to not be sure what the problem was any more. Bob wanted to replace the PCV valve to rule it out. But the throttle body is not oily. It would be if there was any PCV valve related problem. Bob had already told me it was dry, so when I pointed this out he had nothing to say. At this point I told him that I had already been in 5 times and did not want to waste more time by monitoring the oil level for 1000 more miles for a fix that we both knew would tell us nothing.
So, I told him I needed Subaru of America's tel. number. He gave it to me and we ended the conversation. Then Bob called back a half hour later to tell me that he needed his loaner car back. He said he talked to Subaru and they told him that 1 quart per 1000 miles was even acceptable and that they were not going to fix my car.
I guess that is sort of where we are now. There are, of course, more details but that is the main jist.
As a customer who does know about cars, I am so angry. You know, my wife took the car in during one of these oil consumption tests and one of the techs. (She knows the name) said she was being so calm and that if it was his car burning this much when so new, he would be crazy. This is a glimpse of the fact that everone involved knows that this is not right to have a new car burning oil like this. And if Subaru is telling me it is normal, it is a cop-out. As I talk to people on the forums, I see what I would have thought. Many people with the same engines do not burn a drop of oil. Not all, but most. And the ones I run into are as mad as I am about it.
Thanks,
Scott Wendholt
2000 Forester
..Mike
..Mike
I'd ask to see the results of the compression test. A leakdown test is better, but there's no % specified in the factory service manual. There is for compression, of course.
________
Dennis,
It wouldn't really be 'stock' anyway, but the cylinder head swap was called off because I could not justify the time and effort for the next return I'd get ($300). It doesn't matter what class you autocross in when you'd rather go for a bike ride than stand around for 4-6 hours. I can see myself doing driving schools next summer, you bet. Not many autocrosses though...
-Colin
Greg
Ken
By the way Colin, I asked them if they had done a leak down test and they said they would not as the compression test was normal. I realize that the leak down test tells more and is not very involved so I am not happy about this aspect either. But, I really don't get the idea that they are very good techs. at Liberty. Time and again they start running the conversation in circles. Even getting them to fill the oil to the exact full mark on the dip-stick was a challenge. We had to end up driving back all the way to the dealership after checking it at home the first time. Then after they had supposedly put it at the right level, we checked it before leaving and it was still wrong! Every time, it was overfilled. The first time it nearly 1 quart over full. This was all done as an oil consumption test. So we were starting every consumption test with an overfilled engine.
As of now we have been back to the dealership for this problem 6 times.
I am heartened to see Patti take my problem seriously. At Liberty Subaru, when my wife asked the owner Richard De Silva what Subaru's policy was as far as customer satisfaction, he did not answer and changed the subject. Also at SOA while talking to Phil Rode we asked what their policy was as far as customer satisfaction and he did not answer. Literally said nothing.
I have not heard back from SOA but will await anything Patti has to offer. I guess I will have to call SOA again Monday if I don't hear from them by the end of the business day today, FRI.
Thanks again,
Scott Wendholt
wendholtsj@aol.com
Please forgive me for not going back to look if you've already mentioned it--
but is there another dealer within a reasonable distance that you could bring your car to? I would drive 90 miles to avoid my local dealer for warranty work (Wichita, KS straight north to Salina). they're that incompetent, not to mention uncooperative.
-Colin
Ken
Does anyone have any recommendations/cautions about Subaru dealer service departments in between West Philadelphia and, say, Lancaster? I wouldn't mind driving to an especially good one to have my work done.
Thank you.
So we will see. But much better feeling from her than anyone else so far involved.
I will keep everyone up on the progress and keep checking in on this forum. Thanks to Frank, I think, for the email help.
Scott
Colin/Ken - yes, I recommended another dealer. I just checked Yahoo and Flemington is about 60 miles from Oradell. Well worth it, Scott once your current situation is sorted out. You could make a day of it. Lots of things to do in the area. Outlet shopping, Amish Farmer's market, test driving the WRX, etc. :-)
Dennis
There needs to be a better search function in this site. I know this has been discussed...but I cannot find it. My OB's brakes squeak when I back out of the garage in the morning. Is this a cause for concern?
Also - I have the 3000 mile/3 month checkup coming up...what should I expect to pay for this?
Thanks - Rob
I believe there was supposed to be a fix available starting sometime in September (last month), involving putting a shim on the brake.
I am going in to change my oil on Tuesday and am going to speak to the service manager about it.
I will let you know what they say Tuesday night or Weds.
DUKEPHOTO in WV
The shim kit that eliminates the harmonic noise you are hearing should be getting to your dealer any day now. Have your dealer check the brakes out to make sure this is the noise the shims are intended for and they will get some for you. It will be taken care of under warranty. If your dealer has any questions, they can call us at 1-800-SUBARU3.
Thanks and have a great weekend!
Patti
..Mike
..Mike
My '86 Subaru 4WD GL wagon used a quart every 1.5k or 2k miles, but by then it was 14 years old and had been beat almost to death from dragging bottom on the beach. Drip, drip, drip. You'd think with all of that dripping that the front sub-frame members wouldn't have rusted through last December. So, now I have a new Forester.
A quart every 1,000 miles after, what, 30,000 miles? I don't think so.
Trying a different oil is worth a shot, but whatever is wrong probably isn't going to get any better by itself in the next 30,000 miles.
I'm going to be following this closely.
Good luck,
John
Cheers!
Paul
Yes, I agree. I have a Toyota Celica (1987) with 210k that uses about 1 quart per 5000 miles. And this is my 3rd high milage Toyota. I have the same story, roughly, for all of them.
I plan on 200k from a car these days. Heck, you can almost do that with new American cars. Japanese cars have been capable of that for years now.
My Forester is operating fine now, but I cannot take the gamble on emissions, etc. in the future. Even if the car eclipses 100k, that is not enough for a $20k auto.
But, I will say that I don't think all 2.5 L SOHC engines (25J) have this problem. I just hope I can get to the bottom of this as this is my only experience with Subaru to date and I have quite an inverstment in the car.
I mentioned in a few posts back that I am happy to have Patti (mentioned in the forum) working on my problem. She gave me some hope and I am waiting to hear back from her probably tomorrow.
I will let you know how things turn out for me.
Good luck yourself,
Scott
1. Is this reasonable and customary?
2. Does LLBean maint package or normal warranty help me with a rental?
Thanks a ton, this is my first Sub and I want it to be a good experience but I am getting nervous. -Dan
1. This is the procedure others have described. Subaru is paying close attention to the ECM issue (debut of the H6).
2. No. The policy varies by dealer. My dealer provides a free rental when our 00 GT has warranty service.
..Mike
..Mike
Thanks in advance for any help.
Len
Ken
I recently had the ecm reprogrammed on my Bean. Left the car on tuesday & had it back on thursday. Subaru picked up the cost of the car rental(I believe they will pay up to $30.00 day)
Bob
I was just complaining of the same thing on my 01 OB. If I open the hood on mine and push up and down I can hear the rubber crunching of the struts. However mine is a real faint sound. Can only hear if windows are up and everything silent and is going really slow. I think there is nothing wrong here, just the rubber breaking in. Can't find anything wrong with strut or anything else.
I would like to know what cars are getting this brake shim kit and if is going to be considered a recall????
Patti's title is Customer Service Goddess. ;-)
Good to hear the brake shim fix is available. I'll ask my dad if that's a problem on his.
Len: a crunch? Sway bar bushings usually squeek. Could it be debris in the springs or suspension? Been off road at all?
At that low mileage, I'd let the dealer look at it. You're still under the 1 year adjustment period, so bring up any other minor issues you may have while you're at it.
-juice
Any how, our 626 tranny service light came on for about a second, then off. I added 1/2 quart of gear oil, but a few hundred miles later the light went on again, for about 3 seconds, and off again.
I'm going to swap all the fluid this time instead of topping it off, but any other suggestions? The clutch grabs nicely, so that's not it. No unusual sounds, and mileage was good for that tank of gas. No symptoms whatsever, just an idiot light.
It's out of warranty, too. Mazda gave us 50k miles, vs. 60k for Subies. :-(
-juice
I had previously posted my concerns of what I thought was pinging from my 00 legacy with 23000km. I had the Subaru rep out for a test drive and he says it's "piston slap" that the piston has a little more clearance than it should. (engine makes a metalic clanging sound under certain load conditions and especially when the outside temperature is high) He also says it does not affect the engine. I am not sure about what he says. Can anyone enlighten me on Piston slap and consequences if i allow it to continue? Also, should I worry about this condition?
Thanks.
-juice
Bob
I believe piston slap occurs only on the 2.2l motor with short piston skirts and is noticeable when cold. If the problem goes away when the engine warms, it's probably not an issue. I have not heard of a 2.5l (which you have) with piston slap. Pinging or some other condition is more likely. If you're not satisfied with your dealer's service, hopefully you can try another one nearby.
Here is search for "piston slap" on the.Outback mailing list.
..Mike
..Mike
You have to remove the upper, filler plug, and basically dip your finger in. I could not "reach" the oil, so I added some with a hand held oil pump, until it spills out (the car has to be level). Works, but it's messy. Your wife will love the gear oil cologne. The stuff wreaks.
I was proud of myself, since I had no documentation to help me, and went purely by instinct. I had done my Miata, but RWD is completely different than FWD. The 626's trans is below the engine, way forward, and integrated with the center diffy.
The Miata's tranny sits behind the engine, towards the center of the car. Harder to reach and service, but much better weight distribution.
Now I begin to have a bigger appreciation for Subaru's packaging. All that stuff on the 626 sits fore of the front axle, hence the terrible weight distribution and reluctance to turn in.
So, now I need to change the trans oil completely. It's kind of like an oil change. The drain plug is at the bottom of the transmission, it's a 22mm bolt! Wow! Let it drain, cap it off, then refill from the fill hole (which sits higher up on the tranny) until it spills out. Maybe I'll take photos, though not many 626 owners do this type of thing themselves.
I'm trying to find out what the capacity is, since the owner's manual does not mention it. I could not find a Chilton's or Haynes Manual at a few auto parts stores I visited, so I may have to guess (2-3 quarts, most likely).
I may pop in to the Probe topics since it shares an engine with the 626. Hopefully someone can help.
-juice
unless your 626 is AWD it has but one differential, and that would be the front one by definition. you've described the transmission behind any FWD, transverse mounted engine.
hehe, and gear oil *reeks* of dead fish. the smell could wreak havoc on your love life though. ;-)
-Colin
It's open too. Someone in our household (I promised I wouldn't say who) has managed to high center that car in our very own driveway, not once but twice! One wheel in the air and it spins helplessly, stuck.
-juice
I saw a tidbit on this in Motor Week. It was really neat to see the tire being balanced in that sophisticated way.
They also showed a different way to balance tires. They put a type of powder inside the tire, that is supposed to naturally balance the tire again and again, as it wears. I forget the details, but it seemed intruiging.
You may want to pose the same question in the tires, tires, tires topic.
-juice