Subaru Crew Problems & Solutions

cptplt

the 3 crank seeal leaks I have had on 2 different cars were with non synthetics

subaru_team

Hi all!

Mike - Get the seatbelt fixed - your dealer should help - it is a safety item. If they don't, let me know?

Gerry - it looks like your case is being worked on by our Rep. As your Mom know's from the past, we do try to help. I hope you will be satisfied with the resolution.

Synthetic oil - Sorry - I'm just not sold on the value of the synthetics. While we do not take as strong a position against it, we do require that the same maintenance intervals be adhered to. I just don't see the justification in paying for synthetics. We have seen some strange situations with vehicles that have used synthetic oils and had major failures (with changes every 7,500 miles).

I'll let you know if FHI changes their position.

Thanks!

Patti

paisan

I will get it looked at. I have a strange feeling it actually is a fuse. I just haven't (and probably won't til the weather gets a bit warmer) looked at it. I rarely have a passenger so I'm not too worried.

-mike

locke2c

dennis-- scratch that theory, eh?

thanks.

-Colin

locke2c

About two weeks ago I noticed an occassional idle stumble while outside my car checking the mail. The cold weather has made me less willing to investigate mechanical things, so I waited about a week and noticed the stumble getting worse.

I added water remover to no avail. Hmm, not water in the gas.

The last week it's gotten worse, to the point that at cold starting when it flutters the idle (usually between 1000-1500 rpm) it nearly dies when idling down and then recovers to the usual 1500 rpm or so. It sounds sick, but has never stalled. Also have noticed hesitation, especially under light throttle. Seems less so under full power but it still feels weaker than normal.

Last night I changed the sparkplugs (about 20k on a set of NGK coppers). Nope, still there. Hmm. So now I'm thinking plug wires and ignition coil are next to be checked/replaced, although there was no signs of charring on the wires. But the plug wires retail for $18 each, and the coil pack isn't cheap either. No check engine light either, which is kind odd if it actually were ignition related.

So anyway, I've decided to take it into the dealer since I've got 41k miles on it and it's under powertrain warranty. I'm also going to have them investigate a slow oil leak I've had since Fall-- and am suspecting it's the front oil seal. Finally, I've noticed that I'm purging coolant into the overflow tank and it's not being drawn back in. I haven't tested the coolant for hydrocarbons, but I am aware that a cracked block/head or blown head gasket might cause the idle, hesitation and coolant overflow all at once.

Anyway, since my car is modified I'm curious to see how this turns out.

-Colin

kens

Colin,

Hope everything turns out okay. I wonder if the dealer would even notice the Cobb spicy cams.

BTW, are there any visible signs of an oil leak or are you taking an educated guess? At what rate are you losing oil?

Ken

paisan

We have a lot of Isuzu 3.2 and 3.5l engines that exhibit the same problems and it is the intake manifold gasket that is defective. Try spraying something along the gasket and see if it gets sucked in? Just a thought.

-mike

bluesubie

Good luck and keep us posted Colin.

A local i-clubber (RidinLow) just had the camshaft seals replaced on his OB as well. I'll find out if he uses synthetic.

-Dennis

paisan

Oh his in-laws OB.

-mike

bluesubie

I thought he said it was his. Anyway, I'll send him a PM.

-Dennis

cptplt

just had to replace the intake manifold gasket on my 92, the engine speed at rest would be anywhere from so low it stalls to over 1500, only time I've had problems with the engine except for the oil leaks

locke2c

huh, I've got some starting fluid I use on bikes and carbureted cars. I'll spray some around the intake manifold and see if the idle races.

my intake manifold gaskets are fresh and correctly torqued... replaced that head gasket in mid-december.

ken: loosing oil very slowly, perhaps a half quarter every change (that's 5k miles or so, I'm on synthetic). but I can see the tiny spots on the garage floor and oil on the lower timing cover so I figure what the heck while it's in there I'll have 'em look.

-Colin

bluesubie

My leaks where around the timing cover. That's the black thingy, right?

Checked with RidinLow. He said it was ok to post this:
"Actually, yeah, this car gets Amsoil synthetic. & it was the crankshaft seal that was replaced. This car never gets abused... it's driven by my inlaws & they're very conservative & good with maintenance."

-Dennis

locke2c

well, I'm onto that's what a front oil seal will look like but I have some doubts that it matters if you have synthetic or not. ;-)

btw I doubt it's a vacuum leak around my intake manifold, I've had vacuum leaks before and the car behaved differently. my idle isn't *that* bad and when I tip into the throttle it doesn't sputter, it revs right up.

-Colin

mortpeaberry

we really appreciate that you look after us, even though it seems that we have a big sister that we run to every time we have a problem on the playground. Having a (3) big sister(s) was always good for me! :~)
I think I'll stick to dino oil after all + I get free oil changes until 60K (I'm at 27k after 14 mos. wow!
steve-v

hypov

I beginning to wonder if I should come off the synthetic.

-Dave

locke2c

how many miles do you have on your car? how hard do you drive it?

other than this one thing, which I again stress is only a weak theory at this point, I think synthetics definitely do have value.

but are they necessary for low-powered, lightly driven cars... well...

-Colin

kens

Colin,

Interesting. I also loose about 1/2 quart between changes (5K miles) but I haven't noticed any oil spots. How much of the oil loss do you think is "normal" consumption vs. leakage?

In my case, I use synthetic too but I did notice the oil consumption before my switch from dino. The switch doesn't seemed to have made things better or worse.

Ken

hypov

Colin-
to date, I've got ~22k on Al'Gator. Can't say I drive him real hard. On a few occassion, like catching WRXs on Sunday Drives, or following mike :-)
Other than that my day-to-day leasure driving would average 15 miles/day (probably catagorized as 'extreme' driving condition in the manual).

-Dave

locke2c

ken--I had oil consumption too but it stopped after I stopped autocrossing. I stopped that last June and then didn't see oil spots until Fall. I definitely added between .5 - .75 quart.

dave--if you're in heavy stop & go I'd say synthetics would help. a lot less friction on critical bearing surfaces and vastly superior thermal protection.

-Colin
gets to typing a wee bit fast sometimes

hondafriek

I agree with your diagnosis that you may have a cracked head or blown gasket.

Have you noticed any oil residue at all in the overflow tank?

I know you will not always have oil residue, but if you do this is a sure sign of head problems.

The fact that you are purging coolant into the tank with no return makes me suspect a head problem also.

Cheers Pat.

ffsteve

Theob,

Its taken me a while to respond to your call for filter replacement photos, but here they are.

I apologize to the original poster, I made copies of these very good photos because I know I would need them myself and wanted them where I could find them - never imagining that the original host site would disappear.

I can't find the descriptions and instructions that were posted with these (although I suspect they are on my drive somewhere), but you should be able to follow the order of the photos.

Look for them at www.pbase.com/ffsteve.

Steve

c_hunter

I will add to Pat's advice by suggesting a close look at the oil -- any sign of "creaminess" is a sure indication that coolant is getting into the oil, and blown head gasket is the likely culprit here too.

Craig

ramon

did u tinker with the TPS screw?

locke2c

are you asking me alwin? nope, I didn't mess with the throttle position sensor. never agreed with the concept.

-Colin

1subydown1togo

I am driving approx 30-40 miles a day in the WRX, some of it stop and go. Would synthetic be of any help in the long run?

fibber2

Richard,

Ball joint / u-joint grease fittings are going the way of the dinosaur. For a while you could remove a blind plug and replace it with a zerk fitting, but today most mfgrs don't even supply you with the option. It is claimed that the teflon or other polymer coatings over the steel along with better grease sealed in at the factory give it a 'lubed for life' quality. And in reality, you rarely hear of anyone replacing worn out joints today, so I guess it does work.

Time to send the old grease gun to the Smithsonian!

Steve

locke2c

they presented me with an $85 estimate, which was based on the service writer's guess that my oil leak was probably under the factory powertrain warranty but the idle and hesitation probably meant that the car needed a tune-up, which of course is billable work.

I smiled, and asked:
So what if the idle, hesitation and coolant problems (see #4755 for details) are actually caused by a blown head gasket or cracked block?

He seemed kinda surprised and said that it probably would be covered then. I know he's doing his job and that's the obvious and small thing to check first but it made me chuckle inside a bit. But whatever this turns out to be, I just asked to contact me about billable work for approval, but to do any warranty work right away.

-Colin

armac13

I think that synthetic is most likely to be of benefit is you are taking many very short trips. The most significant wear is at startup, not with constant driving. This is why the NYC taxi test is so irrelevant to most of our real world experience. The shorter the trips and the colder the engine, the greater the benefit. In extreme heat (racing?) there is also likely to be benefit. I used synthetic in my Golf due to the short drives I typically took.

Ross

ateixeira

Smart alec. ;-)

I'm gonna call the guy and tell him about your cams. j/k

-juice

locke2c

heh, no need for that. the cams won't really be obvious, they would probably need to take them out of the head and look closely at them to have any idea...

but the porting on the heads will be plain as day once the intake manifold is off. if I end up paying for this, I'll lay the guilt on my dad heavy since the porting was his idea. ;-)

-Colin

ateixeira

Well, they'd have to show that it was the porting that caused any problem you're having, at least in theory.

-juice

bluesubie

Wow, did they disassemble the engine? :-)
What's their normal hourly labor rate?

-Dennis

ramon

maybe one of your plugs' gap is too large? I used to tinker with the spark plug's gap for increase hp (or so i think) in my old bike. Oh the nutty things I did when i was 16...

locke2c

actually I just replaced all the plugs with new NGK v-power in the stock heat range. I checked the gap but as usual (for NGK) they were correct at 1mm.

Dennis, not sure what their hourly rate is to be honest. My car would likely not be there if there were any other Subaru dealers closer than 90 miles.

-Colin

rwood1682

Please forgive the slightly off-topic post, but does anyone have experience with "compact" jumper cables such as the following?

http://www.philatron.com/tinytiger/

I have an old HD set that has served me quite well, but they are very large and I'd rather not have them taking up all that room in the back of my Forester if I can get by with something smaller... TIA-

ateixeira

Do what I do - have an all-manual tranny fleet, and you can always push start them. :-)

Never tried those little ones.

-juice

johnmei

Have a 2002 model. Live in Maine. Engine quiet even when first starting on a very cold morning. Had first oil change at Subaru at 1000miles. Took a trip down to Savannah, GA where I presently am located. Have 1800 miles since the initial oil change. Now, when running engine first thing in the morning, it sounds pretty bad almost like a diesel knock. Lasts 5-10 minutes even after engine temperature indicates engine warm. Eventually the knock disappears. Am wondering if the problem is low oil level??!!Checked the engine oil level one morning before starting the vehicle. Dip stick showed it was a quart low; however after I cleaned the dip stick and immediately inserted and withdrew it again, it showed that the oil level was "full". I recall reading somewhere on the net that Subaru dipsticks were too long or they weren't giving an accurate oil level reading. Believe it or not when I tried to find the local Subaru dealer in the Yellow Pages here, the notation read, "Contact Subaru in Jacksonville, Florida"!
I could use some sage advice and/or solution.

Thanks-John

locke2c

Timing belt tensioner is very likely.

What happens in that case is that there's no insufficient tension and you hear the timing belt slapping against the cover.

-Colin

locke2c

that's me eating some humble pie.

got my car back and they've fixed it.

under warranty:
front oil seal
left cam seal
right cam seal
timing belt tensioner

that takes care of the oil leak.

billable:
replaced air filter in the torque chamber

this is the 2nd air filter on a MY99 SOHC, there is one before the MAF sensor and honestly I'll be buggered if I know why there's an air filter here. it might catch oil from the breather hoses, but there better not be any particles getting past the first filter because the MAF sensor wouldn't like that much. anyway, some MY99s had a gasket instead of a filter. some people that got cars with filters replaced it with a gasket. since the gasket was $40, some people elected to gut the filter instead.

guess which I was? :-D

apparently my 3 year-old (nearly) gasket butchery finally resulted in an air leak behind the MAF, which was causing the hesitation and poor idle. the funny thing is that when modifying the filter originally I found out exactly what the car does if you have an air leak, and like I said my symptoms of late seemed nothing like that. the idle wasn't that bad, and it revved at throttle input instead of bogging.

guess it was a small leak. anyway, I'm pleased with the fast service and gladly paid the sixty some-odd dollar charge for a new filter and labor.

they suspect the coolant issue was just air in the system, so I'll purge it again and may put on that new radiator cap just for s&g. they say there's no head gasket or other compression problem that would affect the coolant...

anyway it drives like normal now. didn't expect to have it back for a while, this is kinda neat.

-Colin

armac13

It's always nice to hear some positive tales to balance out the horror stories.

Ross

mrfixit3

I said I would post the outcome of my oil leak problem...you know the famous one..coming down from behind the timing belt cover..oh yea..seals. I opened a case with SOA and they are refunding 50% of the bill. In my case, the catalyst was the low milage (35k) and they probably took into account that its not too far beyond the powertrain warranty. While I feel that this shouldnt have happened and SOA should have stepped up to a recall of what I'll call a "known problem"...I applaud them for meeting me half way. I gathered as much info as I could from the net as well as my own mechanical experiences and presented my case. By their action, now I know why I bought a Subie, my mom, and 2 friends. Now I'll buy another knowing this manufacturer will stand behind their product (ok, even if its halfway..better than some prior experiences of "hey, your past warranty..sorry".

hondafriek

I am really glad to hear the problem was as simple as that, sometimes when you expect the worst and it turns out simple its almost like winning a lottery.

Cheers Pat.

mrfixit3

Since I saw some posts on the ever popular question "Should I use conventional or synthetic" I thought I'd share some of my personal experiences. I never had a less or more oil leak using synthetic vs conventional. Once a leak, was always a leak. I've been using and comparing oils since the SC/SD days (ut oh did I just tell my age?) and have seen SE,SF,SG,SH,SJ come and go..now the new API SL is onthe shelves. I have run these oils in 4,6,8 engines foreign and domestic. I believe that synthetics prove useful in extreme cold or extreme hot environments, otherwise conventionals should do. Conventionals actually have less base stock oil than you'd think and have so many additives and improvers that they are almost synthetic !!

mrfixit3

drat the server, disconnected again!
Anyway, I have used various brands and some have drained out like water and others had shown "coking"/residue left on engine parts when I disassembled. I have been using Pennzoil and Castrol and they seem to stand up. Pennzoil I just bought now says ILSAC GF3 (so long GF2).
Filters...Ive seen the oil filter study and did some of my own. I have cut open many filters (after use of course) to see their inside construction...you'd be amazed at the differences. If you have the time, cut yours open just below the top and use snips to cut around and take apart. some have cardboard inside (I dont know about you but I dont like pushing 40-60 psi to cardboard..some are metal and have rigid spring bypass parts as opposed to stingy spring metal inthe bottom. Go with what looks the beefiest and has the most filter element folds for max filtering. Like I said, you'll be amazed.

subaru_team

I'm glad it turned out okay. I was in meetings for the better part of the day, but I advised the Manager for your area of the situation. I think he was following it with your dealer. They are good folks. Thanks for sharing your positive experience.

Patti

subaru_team

Could you please give us a call at 1-800-SUBARU3? If I recall properly there may have been a concern with an oil supplier in the New England area a while ago. The oil was contaminated. Subaru of New England tried to contact most customers that they thought were affected, but I'd like to check it out. Please ask the Rep. to review it with me. They can start the case (since I'm hard to reach), but I'll take a look. It may very well be something else (diagnosis over the web can be a bad idea), but either way, we can try to do something.

Thanks!

Patti

subaru_team

Thanks for posting your resolution. 100% would seem good, but sometimes folks think it is unfair to do that when others pay for an Added Security extended service agreement. You are very reasonable with your feelings and I really appreciate your sharing your experiences.

Patti

dbnv

I just got a '02 Forester drove it for less than 300mi and it started to smoke. Found out it was leaking oil, from the very beginning, and oil was all over motor. It was a cracked block. Had it for less than a week and it took 7 days to fix. They had to do major engine work. Subaru of America appears to think this is normal. Beware. So far no satisfaction from SOA. More to come.

kens

Colin,

Good to hear that everything checked out. It's nice to hear about positive dealer experiences.

So did they check and replace the seals simply based on your concern about oil consumption?

Ken