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Subaru Crew Problems & Solutions

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Comments

  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    According to the manual ATs will not shift into 4th gear until fully warm. All of the AT Subies in my family ('97 Legacy, '97 Outback, '92 legacy, '88 XT6, '92 SVX, '00 Outback) all exhibit this behavior and it is normal.

    -mike
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    Colin,

    I stopped by Wally World and checked their stock of both Cristy & Heet (the two main sellers). They still market both a methyl ($0.45) and isopropyl ($1.29) formulas. I noticed that both now claim to be safe for fuel injection, but I still would stay with isopropyl.

    Years ago Nissan had a TSB advising dealers to replace damaged fuel pumps once and warn customers not to use methanol. Deny the claim if it happens again. Today they probably have replaced rubber seals with neoprene or other chemically resistant synthetics, but isopropyl is just better stuff.

    Steve
  • Karen_SKaren_S Member Posts: 5,092
    I've been copying and sending all your Kudos for Patti posts to my supervisor, who sends them on to Subaru. (Hmmm..maybe I should create a Kudos for Patti discussion?) I've asked him to check if there is a direct email address you can write to. Patti's contribution to the Subaru Crew will NOT go unnoticed. :-)

    KarenS
    Host
    Owners Clubs
  • jeesoweejeesowee Member Posts: 3
    Thanks Mike, that's somewhat heartening to hear. It still seems unusually long before mine warms up -- 10+ minutes at highway speeds? Is there something else that could be preventing the tranny from warming up normally?
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    10 minutes does seem like a long time. Mine usually warms ups in about 3-4 minutes of non-highway speeds. Highway speeds will not warm up the tranny any quicker. I'm sure it depends on how cold it is out though. Here in NYC it only goes to about 25-35degrees, but upstate where I go to my house in the adirondacks it is like 0-15 degrees and it does take longer to warm up there.

    -mike
  • armac13armac13 Member Posts: 1,129
    for forwarding the Patti posts (you gotta love alliteration).

    Ross
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Karen,

    Good to know that our praise hasn't been lost in cyberspace. Thanks for forwarding our comments.

    Ken
  • jeesoweejeesowee Member Posts: 3
    In SW Pennsylvania I don't think we experience temps colder than NYC. It does, however, make a noticeable difference for warm-up time based on how cold it is.

    Sorry to risk being redundant, but does anyone know if there is something that can keep the tranny from warming up "normally"?
  • bsvollerbsvoller Member Posts: 528
    Colin: Thanks for the flush/bleed tip, but on a new car, I wouldn't think it necessary. When I say my pedal's soft, I don't mean that it's that soft, or that it changes when I pump it. I get the typical movement when we start the engine, and it's firm when you step down on it hard.

    What I don't like is the sense that we just don't have real braking power. It takes a lot of effort to convince the car to get serious, and you never really feel negative g's. I want the car to bear down and stop NOW, if I ask it to.

    I've been poking around for a while now on various boards, and have about decided to go with SS brake lines and possibly performance pads when we hit 30k.

    It's sometimes hard to know if others on these boards are seeing a real difference or are just into "buying presents for their cars", if you know what I mean. No offense to anyone intended, by the way. This all assumes that the Forester just has softer brakes than I like, and that I haven't had a problem from the getgo (no change from when the car was brand new, and I'm pretty sensitive to this stuff, so I think I'd notice even a gradual change).

    Comments ? Recommendations ?
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Perhaps you are used to a car w/o ABS? I know I sense a big difference between my XT6 and my trooper. The XT6 doesn't have ABS, the trooper does. Also the SS brake lines is probably the best bet for pedal feel IMHO.

    -mike
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    brian,

    regardless of how new it is at 30k miles a bleed may be beneficial.

    but I've always experienced the sensation you describe while trying to stop an automatic transmission vehicle. I don't row through the gears while I'm stopping a manual, but I do decelerate in gear for the first little while.

    the soft brake pedal though is by design-- fire off your emails to subaru.com asking for a firmer pedal and maybe they'll switch back to a single stage booster. the current (97+) dual-stage booster is quite squishy for the first 1" or so of travel. you might find that braided steel brake lines would help the initial feel... I think they help, and run about $130 plus installation.

    -Colin
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    That is about the life of the brake pads, you could benefit from a new set of pads IMHO. I noticed a much better stopping feel on the XT6 recently after replacing ones that had anywhere from 40K->88K on them. (Not sure if or when the previous owner replaced them)

    -mike
  • joseph50joseph50 Member Posts: 235
    This is a subjective post, and non too clear, but I actually find the soft brake pedal rather conducive to the correct use of ABS - inviting an aggressive, mashing move in an emergency stop.
    In "hard" breaks, the immediate resistance might induce timidity and an undesired backing off instead of "going for the floor."
    Just my 2 cents.
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    bsvoller,

    Interesting that you mentioned the 98 Forester S braking performance. I've noticed that brake feel did get a lot softer from 99. I can feel the difference between my 98 and my friends 00. I don't know if this is just sampling error, but mine feel a lot more responsive. Brake rotor diameter did go down a smidge between 98 and 99 (0.1") but I doubt that has anything to do with it.

    One thing you can do to improve braking performance is to have the dealer put in the Legacy/WRX rotors up front. These are larger by about 1" so they should improve braking distance. They'll fit in your 16" wheels and are compatible with your existing calipers. As for brake feel, you'll probably need to swap out the brake booster to do that.

    Ken
  • hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    I always thought that the brake pedal in the GT felt a bit soft compared to the Honda,s I was used to previously, but I got used to the feel, and actually thought the brakes were quite good.

    I had occasion to find out how good today when some effin eedjit.(Irish for idiot when you are mad) ran a red light dead in front of me.

    I thought sweet Jesus a Tee bone coming up and we are both dead I was doing about 60 miles an hour, I got on the brakes and stayed on them, hauled to a stop.

    I have no doubt had this been any of my Honda,s I would have been buried in the side of this halfwit.

    Cheers Pat.
  • bigfrank3bigfrank3 Member Posts: 426
    I find that my wife's disc/disc combo has a much softer feel than my disc/drum. For the same small input I get a more "comforting" response with mine.

    Regards,
    Frank
  • bigfrank3bigfrank3 Member Posts: 426
  • bsvollerbsvoller Member Posts: 528
    Hmmmm. It's hard to quantify a "soft" pedal. When I step on the brakes in my wife's Sentra, it bears down and stops quickly - there's a noticeable perception of deceleration, very noticeable if you really get on the binders (OK, lots lighter, no ABS, skinny tires though, probably a wash, hard to compare). The MPV I drove on Friday had the same pleasant experience (ABS, heavier, same size tires, same rotors, drums in back, again hard to compare...).

    paison: It's true I'm not used to a vehicle with ABS, but I don't see why that necessitates a softer pedal, although from Subaru's point of view it might make sense for the reason you describe.

    Colin: Our Forester is a 5MT, my wife's car and the MPV were both automatics. My wife's earlier car was a manual Tercel. I don't think it's the transmission type. I don't row the gears either (brakes are cheap to fix and easy to get at, clutch plates are none of the above) when stopping, in fact I rarely engine brake even when cornering.

    We're at 22k now, so I'm just planning ahead for the 30k service. Between now and then, I want to have some plan of attack for fixing this that's reasonably affordable.

    The thing that's curious is the measured stopping distance growing from '98 to '00. Tires were the same and the track conditions were probably pretty similar (hard to know, but it is the same test track anyway...). The '00 is slightly heavier, but 15' farther ? Sounds to me like they changed something - different pads I suspect.

    I've looked into alternative pads, thinking that semi-metallics might help, but all I've found are (very expensive and not very long lasting) performance pads so far.

    Going to bigger rotors had occured to me as well, but I'd need bigger pads to see a difference I think, no ? It's also a lot of $.

    Pat: Glad to hear you're OK. I'm afraid I'm not confident that my Subie would have made that stop.
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    quote: The thing that's curious is the measured stopping distance growing from '98 to '00. Tires were the same and the track conditions were probably pretty similar (hard to know, but it is the same test track anyway...). The '00 is slightly heavier, but 15' farther ? Sounds to me like they changed something - different pads I suspect.

    unless other groups found similar results, I'd say that CR's data is misleading. tires and test conditions are the only thing that have changed-- as Ken pointed out there's no real hardware change between 98 and 00. the press vehicle itself could be the biggest variable... if they got a fresh one in '98 and a well-shagged one in '00 that could be a factor.

    I follow autocross discussions on the iClub quite a bit and used to autocross myself. You might get a tad more initial bite from a set of Hawk HP+ pads but the stock pads are very good and offer some big advantages: lower dust, lower noise (nearly noiseless), less rotor wear and they're much cheaper too.

    Anyway, you could have glazed your stock pads but I doubt they're worn much at all at 22k. I have 41k on mine plus about two dozen autocrosses and they have about 3/8" left. I don't drive in high-speed stop&go though and brake conservatively at all times, unless it's an emergency.

    -Colin
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    As far as the A/T not shifting due to the warmup deal, I would suspect a faulty temp sensor if the "delay" seems longer than it should. Either that, or maybe the fluid is low. The trick would be to find out how the A/T fluid temperature is sensed, and trace it from there.

    Craig
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    I remember hearing that the dealer could make an adjustment to the brake system in order to minimize the squishy feel. Worth checking into if it's an issue (ask Patti for details). I have gotten used to it, and find that the brakes do indeed clamp down when you mash them in emergency situations.

    Craig
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    You mentioned single vs. dual-stage brake booster above. I was wondering if you would elaborate. Beth and I are a bit perplexed by the brake feel on our new Odyssey. Dual-stage was exactly the words I used yesterday to describe it. Initial pedal pressure is met with linear deceleration. A small increase in pedal pressure seems to induce an exponential response. Feels very strange and a bit difficult to modulate. This year has 4 wheel disks, and the ABS system now has 'brake assist' (a 'smart' proportioning system).

    I was going to post this question on the Ody board, but figured you guys might know more about this. I have not been terribly impressed with the knowledge depth over there.

    Steve
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The dual-stage booster does allow for smoother stops. You have to stomp on them for full effectiveness, but then they're as good as any.

    I sampled the opposite in a rental Chevy Cavalier. The brakes were so touchy that after a while my wife and I were feeling car sick. You barely touch the brakes and full pressure is applied. That plus hard braking was very poor.

    I haven't heard from Darlene, but the dealership owner was in a finanfial mess, so she couldn't get parts from Subaru. It's a shame, really.

    -juice
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    This is for a friend's Honda. Anyone know the likely cause? I've heard of this before. Head gasket?

    Thanks,
    Dennis
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    Have seen it happen on some Studebakers and Packards.

    Ed
  • bigfrank3bigfrank3 Member Posts: 426
    I would bet valve seals or guides, or rings. Is it all plugs?

    Regards,
    Frank
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    Worn valve guides can cause this to happen as well.

    Ed
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    if it's on all of the plugs. He's thinking of getting a WRX but wants to wait a few months. Sounds like this repair might be several hundred $.
    edit: More info: "Yes, I have 4 plugs, from the passener side across to drivers side. Most of the oil was on the first, the least on the fourth (driverside), but the first 3 were drenched with oil, Up to the threads. The very last just a little on the bottom".

    Thanks
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    "It's all ball bearings these days."

    -Chevy Chase
  • bigfrank3bigfrank3 Member Posts: 426
    How many miles on this Honda gem?

    Did this just happen out of the blue?

    Does it smoke... it MUST smoke with that much oil. Did it just start smoking?

    It must run like crap, has it run like crap for very long?

    Has this thing been beaten?

    Has it overheated?

    How much oil is it using?

    There are probably another 20 questions to be asked, but if a few hundred dollars is his trigger, he might want to start picking out the color for the WRX... unless the demise of the Honda is due to neglect, in which case he can't have a WRX. :)

    Regards,
    Frank
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    LOL.
    ~107,000 miles
    Happened out of the blue. No smoke.
    Has always ran smooth.
    Driven hard, but oil changed every 3K.
    Never overheated.
    Started burning oil lately (first sign of a problem. He thought it was just from driving hard).

    He may buy a beater Nissan from his gf's mom until he's ready to get a Sube.

    -Dennis
  • bigfrank3bigfrank3 Member Posts: 426
    Sounds like he already has a beater! :)

    I would bet it is in the head, probably valve seals. They have probably dried up and turned brittle. If that is it... no guarantees... it might not cost too much to fix it, although it is a Honda.

    Regards,
    Frank
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    dennis,

    I haven't yet heard a reason from you why this Honda can't be driven until he's ready to buy a Subaru. Unless the oil consumption is high?

    Put new plugs in it and watch the oil level. Don't drive it hard.

    -Colin
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    Ok, I should have said "another beater". :-)

    The car died on the highway the other day. He had it towed to his g.f.'s and then he changed the plugs. Car started and ran for 5 min. and died again. After that, it would turn over ok, but not start.

    -Dennis
  • gendrongendron Member Posts: 2
    I know I've seen someone writing about this before but now its happening to me. I have a 2002 forester with 15k. The clutch intermittenly vibrates when starting out in first gear, enough to shake the car up pretty good where i have to come to a complete stop and retry the engagemnet. I have noticed this for a while and was hoping it would disappear with wear but it was really bad this last weekend when i had the car loaded up for a little trip.I'm not sure i can reproduce it for the dealer but am curious if anyones heard or knows what this is so i can furhter investigate.
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    the infamous clutch shudder. try decreasing throttle input-- on level ground you only need 1200 rpm or so to get the vehicle moving. after it's moving you can release the clutch all the way and feed in the throttle.

    I made this adjustment to my driving last winter when my car started displaying the same behavior. It's been much better since then, just needed a little practice to avoid the chatter.

    You can also search the iClub's transmission forum for clutch shudder or chatter and you'll find it is pretty common. Not as common to be covered under warranty though, some folks are able to get it done, others not.

    It is definitely worse when the car is cold and so is the weather.

    -Colin
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    As Colin mentioned, clutch chatter is not an uncommon thing, unfortunately. Since you still only have 15K miles, try taking it to the dealer and see if they can do anything. I believe the clutch is covered for the first 12K miles so it might be worth a try.

    Ken
  • bkaiser1bkaiser1 Member Posts: 464
    My 01 OB has done this since new and it now has 23K on it...I've posted here and elsewhere to try and get info but there's no easy fix. My dealer can't reproduce it when I bring it in (even though it's happening ALOT now) so they won't do anything about it. Surprisingly, I have found the opposite of Colin's advice to be true...sub-1200 rpm launches seem to feel much worse. In all my years of driving manual transmissions, I have never been one to use more than a couple hundred revs to get the car moving (usually under 1K rpms) but I have been making a conscious effort to give the OB more gas than normal to get it moving and it seems to be helping, but who knows. Also, I've been keeping my foot on the clutch ALOT more than I ever though was reasonable...keeping it in gear at stop lights etc with the clutch in. It may just be coincidental, but since I've been doing this the shuddering has not been as bad. It's still there, but it doesn't jolt the car so bad that I think the roof rack is going to fly off the car. Like most people with these crummy clutches, I'm just living with the problem and hoping the clutch doesn't go out any time soon. I'll keep bringing it up at the dealer every 3K, just so there's a record of the problem, but I fear when the clutch finally goes, I'll be stuck with that bill. Good luck...sorry there's no easy fix!
    Brian
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    hmm. I'll have to consciously think about what my feet are doing next time. maybe I am giving it more gas than I thought?

    :confused:

    -Colin
  • bigfrank3bigfrank3 Member Posts: 426
    The dealers must hear about clutch chatter a lot. I brought my Forester in to have them check a vibration I felt in the pedal at the friction point.

    The mechanic called me over and said he couldn't find a problem. The car hadn't moved so I was wondering how he checked for a vibration when shifting at 3k or higher.

    He showed me what he was doing, and it was checking for chatter. He was very slowly letting out the clutch in 1st while giving it no gas. My Forester smoothly moved forward, the best he had seen, he said. When I told him that was great, but not why I was there, he said oh, that's usually what the customer is complaining about.

    That is apparently how he has been instructed to test for what is acceptable. If it can't be done without stalling, it's not smooth enough and needs attention.

    Regards,
    Frank
  • tlimatlima Member Posts: 124
    FYI: Problem solved. Apparently a faulting cam-belt pre-tensioner can also cause the squealing I had on engine warm-up. I saw that some posters were complaining about knocking due to this as welll.

    Dealership (Somerset Subaru) could'nt duplicate on a warm engine, so they let me leave it overnight and voila.

    BigFrank3: I remember that you purchased your Forester (or was it 2 Foresters) from Metro now Somerset Subaru. Everytime I go into a dealership, I keep in mind what the service personnel have to deal with with the average customer. It seemed they were amazed that I knew where the water pump was!

    -Tony
  • bigfrank3bigfrank3 Member Posts: 426
    Yep, 2 Foresters from them. The rest of the story is funny too. The mechanic was even older than I am. We go for a ride and he is shifting at the lowest RPM possible. I told him that it could be clearly felt at anything above 3K RPM.

    He looked at me funny and said he never shifts that high so he didn't know what it should feel like. He definitely could feel what I was talking about, though. We went back and drove a brand new one, since I told him I never felt it when new.

    He agreed that the new one didn't have it, and felt that I did have a problem. He tells the Service Manager (nice guy, Joe Papa if I remember) who then calls Subaru for technical guidance. They tell them to drive another one with a few thousand miles on it, they all have it.

    No one could explain why its smooth as silk when new but rough after a few miles. At least I got it documented. I still think it has a bad throwout bearing, but there is something to be said about not letting people touch the vehicle unless necessary. It could end up worse. It might come back with chatter!

    Regards,
    Frank
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Frank - so funny, I read your post as "it's in his head", like he was imagining things! :-)

    -juice
  • bigfrank3bigfrank3 Member Posts: 426
    LOL. Maybe I should have asked to see exactly what got documented!

    Regards,
    Frank
  • sunburnsunburn Member Posts: 319
    My 1994 Legacy has an inline filter in the automatic transmission cooler lines. Does this filter ever need to be changed? The Owner's Manual does not make any mention of it. Thanks.
  • cptpltcptplt Member Posts: 1,075
    the visor on my 92 Legacy says 10 yrs after manufacture I need a sube dealer to check the SRS.
    Questions -
    1. besides letting SOA off the hook so that my widow can't sue them if the airbag deploys improperly in the future is there any point doing this?? Its 1 1/2 hr labor according to the dealer so they can check for any bad codes associated with the airbag system.
    2. is this something any shop with the right equipment to check codes can do? of course this lets SOA off the hook too

    I'm probably going to get rid of the car when the 03 WRX comes out or better still, the STi, so I don't really want to do this. But now that I have discussed it with the better half she has me paranoid that the airbag will suddenly deploy one day on its own in the next few months and kill me or worse!
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    I'm going to guess that the 10 year check on the airbag is more than just the sensors and wiring. The mechanic probably needs to make sure that it's mechanically/chemically sound as well. Airbags not only contain charges to inflate them, but they also need to inflate safetly.

    Your personal safety and passenger in the car is your call. The 2003s won't be out until later this summer (STi is even further out)so that's a significant chunk of time.

    I personally wouldn't skimp on something like that, but that's just me. At the very least, you might want to call a Subaru dealer to find out what the 10 year maintenance costs and entails.

    Ken
  • rochcomrochcom Member Posts: 247
    Subaru dealers will fix clutch problems but it often takes a bit of doing. I had to take my '98 Forester in 4 times over many thousands of miles before it could be documented, and then they still put me off for a while, suggesting I wait until the warranty almost expired. Unfortuntately, it became so bad that it was almost impossible to move out smoothly when the outside temperature was very cold, so they fixed it at about 44k miles.

    In spite of everyone's assurance and Consumer Reports reliability ratings on the Forester, I am becoming concerned about long-term durability. Problems, so far, have been covered by Subaru, but the drivetrain warranty will run out in about 1500 miles. So far, Subaru has spent what would cost about $3000 US at retail to fix problems with my '98 Forester.

    Problems have included:

    Replacing clutch assembly.
    Replacing rear wheel bearing and axle shaft.
    Repairing oil leak at valve cover.
    Repairing oil leak at rear engine seal.
    Repairing oil leak at oil pump.
    Replacing alarm system.
    Replacing brake master cylinder (recall)

    I have always loved driving the Forester, and I planned to keep it a long time. But now I am not so sure. Mine was, however, bought early in the first US model year, so it may be a bit unusual.
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Jeff- Sheesh... sounds like your Forester was built on a Monday after a holiday weekend ;-)

    Were I in your shoes, I too would be concerned about long-term reliabilty. Maybe you should consider traing in for a new 2003?

    -Frank P.
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    If you do not, please call us at 1-800-SUBARU3 so we can document your experiences. It helps our QC folks. Sorry about the problems. Are things okay now?

    Patti
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