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Shifty, I need your help!



  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,482
    I hear if you WELD in, not bolt in, frame stiffeners, this really helps. I think all the 5.0s are pretty poor chassis out of the box--but infinitely workable.
  • might want to be careful saying that. Sure, welding will make for a stiffer structure, but when you weld, you screw up any heat treatments of the steel, and you introduce brittleness and other unpredictable behaviors because of the way the localized welding heat affects the steel around it. Post welding(that is after production) has proven to have some serious consequences in terms of safety.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,482
    I think a really professional welder with good equipment would avoid that, but yes, you're right, you do have to be careful who you give your car to, for something as critical as frame-welding.

    In any event, it's a risk you'll have to take if you want the frame to really be stiffer and don't want a less than satisfactory result from the bolt-ins. I've heard and read about lots of disappointment with the bolt-in approach.

    I've had only two cars strengthened by welding and I was happy. One was to make the steering box mounts more rigid, another to strengthen differential mounts. But I went to a race car builder, I wasn't taking any chances with some back alley welder.
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 21,663
    Shifty can you enlighten me on a couple of things about these cars that aren't clear to me
    tho I've long admired them (in another life I nearly bought one).

    1-Occassionally I see descriptions of them including BN-followed by a number, BN7 seems most common.
    Can you give us a rundown of the significance of these BN numbers?

    2-Did all 3000 Mk IIIs have the curved windshield
    and permanent convertible top as opposed to the roadster top which had to be erected each time
    and did all MkIIs lack both these features?

    Thanks for the help.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,482
    BN is just a chassis designation

    BN1 1953-55 Model 100-4
    BN2 55-56 Model 100-4
    BN4 56-59 Model 100-6
    BT7 59-62 3000 Mk 1 2+2
    BN7 59-61 3000 Mk1 2 seater
    BT7 62-62 3000 Mk II 2+2 (triple carbs)
    BN7 61-62 3000 Mk II 2 seater (rare) (triple carbs)
    BJ7 62-64 3000 Mk II (first roll up windows) (twin HS6 carbs)
    BJ8 64-67 3000 Mk III (Phase 1 and Phase II)

    There are also the 1955 Model 100S, a very valuable car, and the 1955-56 100/M Le Mans, which is more common and not as valuable by a long shot.

    The first convertible model which you refer to was in january 1962, starting with chassis number BJ7/17551. This had the wrap-around windscreen. the BN7 two seater was discontinued two months later.

    The Mark III was introduced in October 1963, lots of new stuff but basically the same car. Phase II came out in 1964 and this had the best ground clearance (finally!!)

    Last Big Healey was March 1968, a BJ8 chassis # 43026
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 21,663
    That cleared a lot of confusion in my mind. Evidently the last MkIIs (BJ7)were the first to have the curved glass and roll-up windows.

    I saw a Healey Mk.III for sale in Hemmings with a Cobra 289 (271 hp?) engine. I wonder how that would work? Any thoughts, Shifty?

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,482
    I have driven a couple of V8 Healeys and they were all unpleasant to drive, heavy-nosed, brutal, cramped, noisy, hard to control.

    I suppose someone who was quite brilliant might be able to engineer a very elegant conversion, but so far all I've seen is a nice and valuable Healey ruined forever. You have this nice, big torquey six in there with the sweetest sound, so filling the engine bay with a clattering lumpy American V8 just doesn't do it for me. A mis-match of identities and purposes.

    You want a Cobra, that's great, but can't afford a real one? Then go buy a nice Cobra kit to build. Don't mess up a $30K Healey.
  • carnut4carnut4 Posts: 574
    back in 1965, at Carmel, Ca. It was a total conversion, with lots of fiberglass over the wheel well, etc. Someone had put lots of money in it. May have been just a Sprite body on a custom chassis, I don't know. Anyway, it certainly caught our eye-in a bright yellow. We were down there skipping highschool for a day at the time.
    Only one I've ever seen. Imagine what that was like to drive.
  • Mustangs were lighter than the GTs, talking about the Fox bodies. The notchback is the lightest followed by the hatchback. Some people like the notchbacks for drag racing because they are lighter. Some people like the hatchback for higher speed driving because it is a little better cheating the wind.
  • judasjudas Posts: 217
    "I didn't realize that either. Tell us about it."

    Apparently, if you're going to do it the right way, you first have to get a letter from the manufacturer stating that the car, although made for the Canadian market, met all US safety and emissions specs in the year it was made. Once you get that you go buy your car, when you bring it over the border you present that letter to customs and they give you another letter. Then you take those two to your local DOT or DMV or whatever and you're good to go.

    I, of course, didn't do that. So I had to get the letter (By paying some Ford dealer in Canada a hundred bucks) and then send it to a customs broker who'll get me the other letter (Again, for about a hundred bucks).

    The main pain in the keister came from Ford corporate. I called them, they told me I had to contact a Ford dealership in Canada, so I look one up on the internet, call them, and they say they don't do that. I call Ford back. They say that I have to call a Ford dealer in Canada. But then he says I don't have to, because due to running my VIN # he realizes that my cars seatbelts don't meet US spec and there's no legal way to get them up to US spec. So now I think I have a 3500 dollar 3000 pound lawn ornament. With the gun to my head, before I pull the trigger, I call Ford back and the lady I talk to says the previous guy was full of crap. She says that what he said would be true if my car was made after 1990, which it ain't, and she gives me the # and name of a Ford service manager in Canada that she know does the letters.

    So, everything turned out okay, but it was a little more of a pain than I thought it would be. I figured I'd just take my Canadian title down to the DOT and they'd set me up.
  • I found a 76 cobra 2 with a 302 in it the guy wants 2000 for it. The only thing he said is wrong with it is the carborater. i am not a man with alot of money to put into a car every month and was wondering if i should just get it or pass on it
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,482
    I don't like to buy cars that have been "diagnosed" but not fixed. This makes me very suspicious, as if the owner found something out that was more serious.

    If it's "just" the carburetor, why doesn't he "just" get it fixed? And how would he know it was the carburetor---there's no machine that you plug in that lights up "Yep, it's the carburator!".

    Someone's guessing here and it looks like you get stuck with the bill whether they are right or wrong. Could be a bad valve, head gasket, rotten gas tank, who knows?
  • ndancendance Posts: 323
    in the case of a 1976 Cobra II, I think passing might be the moral thing to do (unless it's an old Kemp race car)...I guess there is something to be said for rust.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 20,333
    Is about what that "Cobra" really is.

    Unless, of course, a person REALLY happens to like them?
  • john_324john_324 Posts: 974
    Only if it has that cooool disco-fire-snake hood decal! ; )

    [This was the subject of probably-more-than-necessary posts on another Mustang thread, much to the dismay of many...but I enjoyed it...]
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 24,278
    ...they looked kinda cool when Farah Fawcett, Jacquelyn Smith, and various other Angels drove them ;-) I think Kate Jackson drove a Pinto though, didn't she?
  • john_324john_324 Posts: 974
    Poor Kate Jackson...not only did she have to drive the Pinto, but always went undercover as a librarian or an accountant (while the other two were usually models, dancers or high-class call girls)
  • I posted this in the 3 series forum and was told to come here, but I'm having a little trouble navigating this site. So I thought I'd try again. I have a 1978 3 series BMW 320i and I'm trying to find out what it's worth, but I'm not having any luck. I tried the kelly blue book as well as edmunds, but they only go to 1980. Any help would be really appreciated. Thank You!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,482
    On a car like this it depends totally on condition.

    A #4 car is FAIR, and is a driver with some small dents, some rips and tears in the upholstery and perhaps some faded paint. "running but needs help".

    A 3# car is GOOD and is a clean daily driver that looks very good from 20 feet away but as you get close you see dings and maybe a hole in the carpet and dull chrome and it might need a few mechanical things.

    A #2 car is EXCELLENT and looks really sharp inside and out---a "no excuses" car.

    So if you could tell me the condition I can give you a value:

    For instance:

    BMW 320i

    #4 condition about $900

    #3 condition about $1,800

    #2 condition about $3,200

    Hope this helps
  • gtgtcobragtgtcobra Posts: 268
    I want to keep forever. I purchased a brand new 2001 Mustang GT and a brand new 2002 V6 Mustang. Since I purchased each of these vehicles brand new, I only drive the 02 V6 Mustang as my daily driver. It now has 33,090 original miles on it. The 2001 Mustang GT has only 2,365 original miles on it. I drive the 01 GT ONLY during the summertime. It has never been out in the snow and salty roads up here. I garage both of the Mustang in an open carport garage all year round.

    I want to be able to keep each of these 2 cars "forever". I religiously maintain both cars.

    Do you think that they will both ever be worth a lot of money like the Mustangs that were built during the 60's and early 70's? Or will they have the same worth as all the Fox bodied Mustangs that were built during the 80's and early 90's? I see that the 1982 to 1993 Mustang 4 cyl., 6 cyl., and V8 5.0L Mustangs that are all in good condition sell for between $3,500 to $10,000+. Do you think that the newer 99-04 body style Mustangs that are both regular V6's and regular V8 GT's will ever be worth the same or even more than the Fox Body 1982-1993 Mustangs?
    I would like to know your opinion and analysis regarding this topic.
    I am hoping that my 01 Mustang GT and that my 02 V6 Mustang will be worth "at least" around $10,000 or more after another 15 years from now if I take care of them regardless of how many miles that I put on any of them. What do you think? Will they go up in value? Or will they only be worth $3,000 to $5,000 in the future 15 years from now? If you look at the future value of money, $3,000 and $5,000 will NOT be worth a lot of money if inflation and the cost of goods keep going up like they are. Do you think that under today's current value of money that both of my Mustangs will be worth $10,000+ within the next 15 years? I think that $5,000 and $10,000 dollars in 15 years will be worth around today's $1,000 to $3,000. What do you think?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,482
    The problem with predicting the future is that you have to use the trends of the past, which may or may not hold true in the future.

    IF the trends of the past hold up in the future, then it doesn't seem likely that a modern Mustang will be worth a whole lot of money, especially not the V6. The reason is that the original Mustangs came in a larger variety (3 body styles) and later on in the evolution of the 60s, various models and customs (Mach 1, Shelbys, etc.) Also modern Mustangs are made in rather large numbers and larger numbers of them will survive than in the past (because modern cars are far more durable).

    Essentially, price is driven by supply and demand. With so many Mustangs out there, supply will be high. Will demand in ten years exceed even a large supply? I personally don't see the market factors that would drive a high supply/high demand situation----unless all V8s were banned by law except old ones, or something strange like that...

    So low supply, high demand + production rarity + high horsepower are the magic qualities one needs to have a real strong collectible car. Your Mustangs have some but not all of the above---the more the better.

    I'm sure you'd have no trouble selling your cars in the future (especially the low miles V8) but I see it more like "high blue book" rather than "high collector car value".
  • gtgtcobragtgtcobra Posts: 268
    Do you feel the same way towards the value of the 1980-1993 Mustangs? Would you say that in 15 years from now the 1999-2004 Mustang body style will equal the value of what the 1980-1993 Mustangs are selling for today? That's really what I was trying to ask you in the previous post that I made.

    I feel that the 1980-1993 Mustangs that are in good condition which are being sold today are being sold for $4,000 to $10,000+. Will my 01 GT and 02 V6 Mustangs have the same compatable dollar value, but only adjusted to whatever the inflation rate will be in the future to today's 1980-1993 V6 and GT Mustangs 15 years from now?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,482
    If they were stickshift V8s then yes, that would be a reasonable assumption I think. But automatic V6s will be at the bottom of that price range.

    There comes a point when ANY clean, good running coupe "bottoms out" and can't be worth less than the bottom. I think a V6 Mustang coupe probably can't go much below $3,000 if it's clean and well cared for.

    The problem of course with the 5.0 Mustangs of the 80s is that 95% of them are so beat to death you wonder if they are worth anything anymore. But that's true even of a 1965 Mustang. The difference between a '65 rustbucket convertible and a very sharp one can be $20,000 variation for the same car!

    The Short Answer? Nobody knows but I'd never bet on a V6.
  • gtgtcobragtgtcobra Posts: 268
    Both of my Mustangs are 5 speed manuals.
    You are right about most Mustangs being "beat". I pamper both of my Mustangs. I hope that the V6 will be worth between $4,000 to $8,000 after its value bottoms out and when its value starts going up again. And as for the GT, I am hoping that it will be worth $10,000-$15,000 after its value bottoms out and its value starts going up again. The figures that I am giving to you are adjusted figures with inflation 15-20 years from now. If a beat up 1982-1993 Mustang GT is worth $5,000-$10,000 today, then my GT should be worth at least $10,000-$15,000+ in good condition 15 years from now if you adjust the dollar value to the inflation which will be present 15 years from now. The same thing goes for the value of my V6 15-20 years from now. It should be worth at least $5,000-$10,000 with future inflation rates.
    Also, most of these cars get totalled and beat and not many of the 99-04 body style Mustangs will be on the road after 10 to 15 years from now. This helps bring the value up more on the 99-04 V6 and GT Mustangs in the future.
  • I am in the market for a fun A to B rig that will perform well with the occasional romp off road (not a daily commuter). I found a 1989 FJ 62 170K original miles. Only 20K since new factory Toyota engine was installed. The body is great; new paint (no signs of rust). I would gut the interior and start over again, new suspension, etc....but all in all it looks like a solid rig. I am going to test drive it today, what are some questions I should ask or things I should look for to determine if this is a good buy? Also is $8500 reasonable? Thanks
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,482
    Wayyyyy overpriced, almost double book value. You can do better than this, easily I think.
    Even with a new-ish engine, $5,000 should be more than enough of a premium.
  • lemmerlemmer Posts: 2,699
    Do those old Land Cruisers have the typical Toyota reliability?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,482
    Yeah, it's a Toyota, but you know 170K is still 170K. Most cars are pretty dead by 175K-225K unless they have been restored. So the "new" engine is still in a very old body and drivetrain. Given the limits of metallurgy and the life span of most components, all hell can break loose at 170K, even on a Toyota.
  • Thanks, I really appreciate your insight. I was on the fence with this one, but this pushed me over. It is wayyyyy to expensive. I still would like to find a quality cruiser someday, but perhaps this isn't the one for me. Again, many thanks for your help.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,482
    There are a LOT of these cars out there. Just shop around, bring your suitcase full of money and bargain hard.
  • New member looking for assistance from your expertise. My father recently passed away and I am inheriting his "baby", a 65 Mustang Hardtop..289. I need to have it appraised and need information on how restoration details are rated/valued. I believe it would be considered restored almost to it's maximum. It was purchased in 1966 and "retired" from daily driving to garage in 1980 and major restoration occurred over the last 6 years. He left a booklet detailing all work. Any advice, sources, personal help....I will appreciate all advice.
  • Hi Swifty....I am inheriting a garaged 1983 GMC Caballero in excellent condition after my Dad's death. I will be selling it and found very different online values. Edmunds TMV says $800-1300 and (from an archived thread) I checked Manheimgold and they gave $5500-7500. I am confused....any help or suggestions?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,482
    It's kind of a complex question but the short answer is that the appraisal process, if done correctly, is quite a bit more complicated than merely looking at classified ads and eBay auction and drawing conclusions.

    First, the car itself. What equipment is on it? V8s bring more than 6 cylinder engines, GT equipment is good, AC is a great option. Perhaps (maybe) a very early serial # on a '65, (mistakenly called 64 & 1/2 Mustangs) might be worth a little more. So the appraiser needs to know that one '65 Mustang is not like another '65 Mustang. Is it a "common" model? They made a LOT of coupes, for instance, so naturally a convertible or fastback would be worth more....a lot more.

    Without seeing your car, I'd imagine the value will fall between $7,000 and $12,000 dollars, all depending on the quality and thoroughness of the work done.

    Secondly, the term "restoration" is very loosely-goosey. There are many levels of "restoration", and the term is much abused. A good appraiser tries to "grade" a car from # 5 through #1. Most restorations are often #3 cars, because the body has not been lifted off the car and the undercarriage completely renewed, every nut, bolt, bushing, washer and spring. For a car to go up to #2 condition, it has to look really really good with only the most insignificant of flaws, and done to a high standard. You'd pretty much have to have lifted the body off to get to a #2, unless you had a very well-preserved original car that is clean as a whistle underneath. A #1 car is BETTER than new, flawless, never driven, just trailered from one show to another. So the quality and thoroughness of the restoration is judged by the appraiser. If he sees an undercarriage with normal wear and tear (some rust on tailpipes, road dirt on suspension, a few oil leaks, etc., this can never be a #2 car, even if the engine/trans, etc. were rebuilt). So, THOROUGHNESS and QUALITY of the work.

    Last of all, "correctness" is important. If the car has had a color change, or if it has the wrong engine, muffler, hose clamps, type of battery...or if the data plates are missing, or if the upholstery color has been changed, all this is taken into consideration.

    charges for an appraisal should be about $150-$225, and you should get two copies, with photos, price guide reports, comparables for sale, and auction results. The appraiser should NOT be a dealer, buyer or seller of cars, or a Mustang club member, as these are not considered "impartial" observers--and claims could be challenged on that basis. An appraiser need not be 'licensed" or "certified" as there is no such thing as a license for a value appraiser (only for a damage appraiser) and certification is merely connected to joining a professional organization and paying them their dues. The best credentials are the appraiser's experience, which he should present to you in written form.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,482
    Online price guides can drive you crazy, and can vary widely. Edmunds is GREAT for "used cars" but really isn't tuned into "collectibles" at all, so they are too low.

    Manheim is quite good but not always, and they can be overtly optimistic at times. So they are too high in this case (maybe).

    The best way to judge a car like this, which is really too new to be "collectible" except in a very narrow range of interested parties, would be to go to, or perhaps (the collector car section of autotrader---check them both), and see what the going rate seems to me.

    My impression is that the "sweet spot" for actually selling a #3 or #2 car/truck of this type (a cruck?) would be around $3,500---$5,000.

    So it's not a "gold mine", even though it is rare (rarity alone does not dictate value), but it is worth more than Edmunds says.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 15,210
    please refresh my memory. What is a Caballero, kind of a car/pickup thing?
    2019 Lincoln MKZ Reserve 1, TBD
  • fintailfintail Posts: 52,256
    The Caballero was a GMC version of the ElCamino.

    They seem to have some popularity...I think a genuinely good one could bring 5K without a ton of trouble.
  • Thanks a ton for all your information! Seems my Dad did everything according to your "correctness" details. Lastly, how do you find the type of impartial appraiser you suggest?

    Great web site!!!! A great resource! Thanks for the work you must put into it.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,482
    You're most welcome! You can go to, click on "classifieds", click on "services" and click on "appraisers" and you should find someone in your geographic area (if you are in the San Francicso Area I can recommend someone to you).

    Be sure to ask for their credentials and don't take anyone who is a car dealer or a club member.
  • davidsin62davidsin62 Posts: 5
    How many times can I say thank you? Thank you!
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 176,561
    '72 914 Targa.. "runs good, $2500".

    Assuming it was a stellar example, what is the high end? $5500-$6000?

    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!

    Edmunds Moderator

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,482
    Maybe $7,500 for a reall sharp car. That one sounds like your typical 914 rat's nest. Great little cars, though, if you can find a decent one.
  • garv214garv214 Posts: 162
    Hey Shifty

    I have a 68 442 that I want to have appraised. I am in the SF Bay Area, and would love to get the contact info for your appraiser.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,482
    Okay I'll e-mail you pronto!

  • Hi Shifty....finally had the Cabollero appraised and was shocked when I was told $12,000!!! He added if I spent about $500, that I might be able to get close to $14,000 for it.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,482
    Yeah, well you aren't as shocked as I am. That appraisal sounds a off the wall...I'd like to see how he justifies it with evidence....I suppose if it were a pristine, Pebble Beach quality 100 pt. example, you could hit $10,000. If he's pricing it off a 70s big block El Camino, that's not correct, for obvious reasons....I just can't see an 80s era El Camino style vehicle bringing the same money as a '65 El Camino with a 327/300 HP.

    My two cents is that you should regard the appraisal with a pound of salt...but of course, I hope you get all the $$$ in the world for it.

    Does this appraisal have comparables for sale (same car, same condition, selling for $14K) and auction results and price guides to back that up. My data shows nothing like those numbers. I have 6 price guides and auction databases and there is nothing to support $14K.

    Well you can always ask a lot and go down :P
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 20,333
    The people who give these appraisals should be willing to write a check for their appraisal less 10%.
  • garv214garv214 Posts: 162

    Thanks for all of the info you provided for the market analysis for my 442. It is due back from the shop next weekend, so I will get in touch with you shortly as a follow up. In the meantime, if you know anyone in the market looking for a clean 442...
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,482
    The 442 is finally coming along in the marketplace after playing poor stepsister to GTOs and the like.
  • scoutnmscoutnm Posts: 2
    When I turn my Scout off it tries to keep running and then eventually dies and spits back through the carb. Does anyone know what causes this?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Sonoma, CaliforniaPosts: 64,482
    This is called "post-ignition" or "engine run on" and is usually caused either by too advanced timing (did you tune the engine recently) or by a "hot spot" in the combustion chamber caused by carbonization.

    First, check and reset the timing to make sure it is not too advanced; if that's okay, then get some gasoline additive made to reduce carbon buildup, pour it in, and take the truck out for a good long hard run on the highway.
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