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Comments
More Power
Sport tuned chassis w/4-doors
17" wheels
Premium Sound System
Side Curtain Airbags
HID
VSA (Stability Control)
Smaller Size (a plus to many who thought Accord had grown too big)
Low volume/Lifestyle vehicle
4yr./50k warranty
Acura Total Luxury Care
Split fold (60/40) rear seats
Autodimmer rear-view mirror
Perforated leather
Short-throw 6 speed manual (SWEET)
;-)
The reason I mention this is that I am also interested in replacing my Accord with the TSX. I want a car that is fun to drive, again. (We had a 95 Integra prior to the V). We may have another child and we will need the ability to carry 3 kids in back on occasion. The choices for a family vehicle that is also fun are limited. I can't (won't?) afford to buy a larger BMW or Audi with a manual and cars like the new Accord, camry, and Passat just haven't fit the bill for me on fun to drive. The Mazda may be a fun choice, but I am not fond of the tacky racer styling add ons that come with the sport packages. I am hoping that the TSX fits my need for a fun car that can occasionally handle 3 car seats across the back.
The 03 Accord looks like a bloated Buick in comparision.
Mind you, the 2.5-liter I-5 engine used on the Vigor and 2.5 TL was designed for longitudinal installation in the engine bay, which caused not a few issues for efficient packaging design. What I'm suggesting is an all-new I-5 engine of around 2.6 liters displacement, but since it is a modern design the engine can be installed in a tranverse fashion. Fitted with an i-VTEC valvetrain and balancing shafts such an engine would generate about 220-225 bhp when tuned for performance and 200 bhp when tuned for more low-end torque, but would have fuel economy somewhere between the 2.4-liter I-4 and 3.0-liter V-6 engines found on the 2003 Accord.
Such an engine would very likely fit easily inside the engine bay of the TSX with not many modifications needed compared to the current I-4 installation; this new engine in the 200 bhp form will become a second engine choice for the CR-V and Element SUV's and the upcoming Honda Latitude small van.
A smaller-displacement V-6 engine would be a good choice for a second TSX engine, but given the width of such an engine it might not fit in the TSX engine bay and very likely won't fit in the engine bay of the CR-V, Element and Latitude.
All automakers are looking for ways to cut costs. Keeping the guts of cars somewhat consistent while utilizing flexible manufacturing to put different skins on cars is how things are.
I would like to see Honda have the guts to bring the diesel from Europe to the US. I would look at a Diesel TSX for mileage and longevity. HP is not the end all. Torque is where diesels shine. As small as it is, I think it would move pretty good.
Are all black/gray interiors the latest cool thing? :-( Some gray is inevitable, but a lighter dashboard color would make the interior look airier, IMHO.
Honda is going to put diesel in Euro Accord, a few months after it is released. It is a 2.2 liter common-rail turbo diesel, and pumps an impressive 145 HP/245 lb.-ft (notice that the peak power output is as much as the 94-97 Accord EX with 2.2 liter gasoline engine had). But, I doubt that Honda will sell it in America (or Japan for that matter), especially in an Acura. However, that engine can be useful in some Honda light trucks (CRV and Element). Accord w/diesel is expected to get 52 mpg in extra-urban cycle and will be among the cleanest diesels as well. Impressive for a first home-effort, unlike Civic CTDi (Isuzu unit).
civicw:
My 98 Accord has a very dark gray top and although it works well in preventing reflection on the windshield, black would be better and my preference. Black also provides for a better contrast to bring up lighter tones which should be part of the lower side of the dash anyway. In TSX, I'm hoping for an all-black interior with black exterior (something I can't get with Accord today). And I live in Texas!
Jak
This could be a car I look at to replace my 2K Accord Coupe V6...
But like Edmunds said, if this heavy vehicle with the 4-banger is going to be stickered from $25K to 30K, I would save my money and seriously look elsewhere. If it were equipped with the 3.0L V6 of the Honda Accord, I would have seriously considered it as a replacement for my 2000 TL.
Later...AH
Assuming it's possible, I would think it's likely that Acura, within the next couple of years, will stop making the slow-selling CL, and produce a TSX Type-S with a V6 and six-speed manual (as an option). Similar to the CL Type-S, I think this would compete well with the 330 and A4 3.0 and, unlike the CL, with the practicality of 4 doors, it would sell. Around $28-29k sounds good to me.
It's funny, before the specs were released on the TSX, I had assumed there would a premium and a Type-S, each with about 170hp and 210hp, respectively. The production TSX meets and, in some cases exceeds, my expectations for what i thought would be a Type-S version. But just knowing that a more potent Type-S version may be offered later makes me hesitate on the TSX.
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Nighthawk Black pearl/Ebony/Parchment
Arctic Blue pearl/Ebony
Carbon Gray pearl/Quartz/Ebony
Milano Red pearl/Parchment
Satin Silver metallic/Quartz/Ebony
Meteor Silver metallic/Quartz
Premium White pearl/Parchment
Honda is making the same mistake they made earlier when they introduced the US Odyssey with a 4-cylinder. After failing miserably in the marketplace, they wisened up to the tastes of US customers and introduced the next Odyssey with a torquey V6, which turned out to be a best seller. A 4-banger is a 4-banger. You can put it in a vehicle that would sell for around 20K and it would sell like hotcakes, with the features that the TSX comes with. At 25K-30K, you are pushing it, with a FWD configuration and a 4-banger to back it up, especially when there are a ton of European/Japanese alternatives that open out at that price point. JMHO.
Later...AH
Honda is positioning it as a replacement for the 4-door Integra (since the RSX comes only as a 2-door hatchback). That said, 4-cylinder is all you're going to get. Its closest competitor is probably the Saab 9-3. The TSX is not an attempt at being a "3-Series Killer."
Interior dimensions/legroom and such things may be interesting from a purely academic perspective.
Later...AH
"Interested in a something in a V-6? We have this lovely TL over here to show you..." And, yes I know the current TL is not a true sports sedan because it has no manual and is tuned more for ride/room.
hunter - True. But the Honda Accord (not our NA Accord) isn't available as a V-6 in other countries so they can't just import it as a V-6 vs an I-4 in its home market like BMW can.
I don't know about the logistics but if Honda really wants to, they can definitely put a small V6 into that car. The 3.2 may be a little too big. A 2.8 or 3.0L V6 with around 240-250HP with a Torsen LSD in the front would be a good product. JMHO.
Later...AH
As well-equipped as the TSX is, it seems that by simply adding a V6 to the model line-up, Acura could legitimately compete with the 3-series and A4 in the sports-sedan comparos. Obviously, the FWD vs. RWD/AWD will not be overcome. At the same time, I think it's ability to compete at that level would highlight the entire TSX line.
This may be all moot though - it sounds like the V6 will not fit in the TSX anyway. Don't get me wrong, the lack of a V6 won't stop me from purchasing a TSX; it's just the hope of one is making me hold out
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Acura could have offered two trims of TSX, a base version with 160 HP, sharing it all with Accord EX-L, which would mean a starting price of about $23K. And a TSX Type-S, with 200 HP, sport suspension, 17" rims, upgraded sound system, side curtain airbags, stability assist (VSA) and posted a price tag of $25.5K. Wait, people were expecting xenon to be offered in Accord, so TSX gets it. Let us throw the price tag to $26K now. So now, we have TSX starting at $23K and TSX Type-S at $26K. Now, if Acura were planning to sell 50K or more units of TSX, I am sure they would take this route, but with projected sales volume of only 15K units per year, TSX Type-S as the TSX makes complete sense to me.
JDM/Euro Accord is built around K24A much like the larger Accord (American) being built around J30A. The result is a compacted body. To fit any of the J-series V6, or the rumored I-VTEC V6 that is supposed to debut early summer with the 2004 TL, Honda may have to stretch the chassis by couple of inches or more, and make it about as large as Mazda6 or Accord Coupe (both are about 3.5" longer than TSX) and fairly close to Accord sedan (which is about 6" longer than TSX). This will not only add to the cost (like it did with 95-96 Accord V6), but the only real difference between Accord and TSX would be style. That said, if TSX were differentiated by way of having sportier suspension than comparable Accord V6, it would also cost more, falling into TL territory. I'm sure many of us overlook these details, but believe me, TSX isn't going to be priced into $30K bracket and compete against a more powerful and better equipped sibling in the form of TL Type-S. The only way Acura would place TSX into $30K market would be by way of something drastically different than revealed at NAIAS, a Type-S with powerful AWD gasoline-electric hybrid system? That can easily justify $30K (even $32K) price range for a sport sedan.
Now, is TSX the replacement for Integra Sedan? Many of us think so, but for me, it would be the perfect car to replace my beloved Prelude, easier to convince my wife to get 6-speed since it has 4-doors that she prefers. And TSX appears to be just that, filling the void left by Prelude. While TSX is 150-200 lb. heavier than Prelude and has same peak power, it will have better power delivery at lower engine speed with the extra cog helping the cause as well. It would be about as heavy as Accord EX-L too, but with 40 more horses and more torque at any engine speed. And in Accord, I know the I-4 works very well, and TSX version of K24A (VTEC applied at both ends) is an upgrade. I paid about $21.6K for Prelude 5-speed about three years ago, and if I can get TSX at invoice couple of years down the road, it may be only $2K or so more than what I paid for Prelude. I would consider it a great value considering the return.
A 4-banger is a 4-banger. You can put it in a vehicle that would sell for around 20K and it would sell like hotcakes, with the features that the TSX comes with.
Quote me a car with 200 HP, and features that TSX will come with, for around $20K. Even Accord EX-L, which I consider to be a good value, is about $23K with manual transmission. How much would Altima 2.5SL, Passat 1.8T, Accord EX-L, 9-3, A4/1.8T cost if they were equipped to the level that TSX is?
Carmakers like BMW/Lexus etc realises that 4-bangers are okay elsewhere but never to put that in a premium product to be sold in the US. The Lexus IS series sells as the IS200 elsewhere but when it came to the US, it came as an IS300 with an I-6....same with the BMW 3-series. They have 4-banger versions in Europe but not a single BMW is a 4-cylinder in the US.
And that is why I wouldn't even consider BMW or Lexus. Well equipped BMW and Lexus go well past $30K anyway, it is not that they are offering their cars for a reasonable price tag.
But, 240-260 HP with the drivetrain showcased with Acura RDX concept can be considered a possibility in the future. RDX had 190 HP variant of K24A with 60 HP electric motors powering the rear wheels, and 6-speed clutchless manual (also showcased at 2002 SEMA in Accord and CL-S concepts).
So, five years after giving up my Prelude, perhaps I have found a true successor - with 40 more horses, an extra gear and, most importantly, two extra doors!
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Capacity restraint of the V6 was an issue with the Ody at one point.
As long as the car is about as roomy as my Accord coupe, and has interior features like side curtains, it's on the top of my buy list for next summer.
Who cares what the engine is called - isn't what it does more important? The 4 has the power of many 6's and is as smooth and quiet as many 6's - so what purpose would the 6 serve? If you want to drag race this is not the car you want no matter what the engine. If you want big for big's sake - go buy an SUV.
Also, since I do run into snow from time to time, are the stock high performance tires going to be a problem? I know it has skid control, but tires still do make a difference. It looks like a nice package, but I do need the practicality of being able to go up to the mountains without swapping out the wheels.
(I wonder if Acura would be happy that I'm thinking of trading in my A4, or unhappy that I'm considering the Mazda6 as an alternative.)
The tire size is one difference I noticed between Japanese Accord Type-S (24S) and TSX. The 24S uses a lower profile (P215/45/R17).
About three years ago, C&D did a comparison of "$25,000 sports sedans." Among others, it included a 325i, A4 1.8T (FWD), the Contour SVT, an G20t, a Jetta GLX and a Saab 9-3. The top three, in order, were the Audi, BMW and Ford. I remember relishing every word of the comparison review, as it contained fun-to-drive cars that I can actually afford.
I'm guessing C&D will run a similar review in a few months, to include the new TSX and redesigned 9-3. I can't wait. It will be very interesting to see how the TSX comes in. I'm guessing it will be in the top three, along with the 325 and A4 1.8T. Good company to be in.
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Those aren't neck snapping numbers, but they should do well in normal driving.
This is why I've been pushing for a new transverse-mounted I-5 2.6-liter i-VTEC engine. :-)