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Acura TSX

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  • chillenhondachillenhonda Member Posts: 105
    cut and pasted from a review of the european accord type-s with 16" wheel and tire package and i think slightly less power (?)

    "The graph shows a plump, nicely-flattened torque curve, and that's how the engine feels. It revs with zeal but you don't have to hit the heights; it's very driveable. But that is not what makes the Accord, against indications so far, special. You need some corners to discover where its salvation lies. I'm going to be a bit daring here, and say that the Accord may just be the sweetest-handling front-wheel-drive saloon you can currently buy. It's not just that it has loads of grip, alert steering and a resilient ride; it's the mechanical precision of the controls, especially the steering, the progressive way they respond and the transparency of the messages they convey. Obviously there is rubber in the double-wishbone suspension, but it's very cleverly deployed to absorb just what it needs to without smothering the good signals that light a keen driver's fire."

    sounds good so far
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    The 3131 lbs figure is footnoted as the weight of the JDM spec Accord. So even that is a guesstimate. Sounds about right, though.
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    Played with the TSX's interior a bit. Added some chrome, changed some color, added more wood. Didn't come out as well as I thought it would, but I think it looks a little classier.

    http://makeashorterlink.com/?Z35712363

    What ya'll think?
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    I thought it would look better...thanks for the critique.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    I like it, esp. the seats matching the darker shade (although it reduces the airy feel).
  • alaintalaint Member Posts: 1
    TSX Front Head Room: 37.8 in.
    The sunroof is always a bad thing for us. We can buy many cars without sunroof. A4 38.4 in. / 325i 38.4 in. / IS300 39.1 in. / Passat 39.7 in. / Accord 40.4 in. / ....
    I'm 6'3'' and 38.4 in. is very tight for me. TSX is only another car, which I will only be able to look at. I like small sport sedans. Please Acura, thing to custom!!!
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    But with a short torso. I may have legroom issues but rarely height problems.
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    Well it is a small car. Most of the "big" people I know drive trucks or minivans for comfort. Even a full sized car doesn't do it for them.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    Actually if it didn't have a sunroof, it would have 2 extra inches of headroom, and would accomodate someone approximately 4 inches taller. My sunroofless Integra is a tiny 3 door and has plenty of leg and head room (no sunroof) for me while the previous gen Honda Accord w/ a sunroof was intolerable headroom wise (I use this for comparison since the TSX is not available yet, but probably is similar in headroom).

    The size of the car is not always related to the amount of room for the driver.
  • himilerhimiler Member Posts: 1,209
    Standard sunroofs/moonroofs suck. Honda should make it an option on all trim levels on all their cars. That way, every buyer can get exactly what he or she wants, and isn't forced to pony up $$ they could otherwise spend on better tires.
  • mdmetzmdmetz Member Posts: 27
    Acura's now saying the TSX will cost between $27,000 and $30,000, and that it will pull ad money from dealers whose ads mention a car price, unless the price is at or above sticker:

    http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat- _code=carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=07799113
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    "The fact that it is powered by a four-cylinder engine will not receive as much attention."

    I'm not so sure about that.
  • himilerhimiler Member Posts: 1,209
    At least it's a killer engine...the four-pot in the 6i is kind of a dog. As for the 1.8T in the Passat/A4...yeah, right. Next!

    And, when you consider the fuel economy (prices are going up, and up, and up...) of the I4 vs. a V6 and Honda's knack for building bulletproof motors, it doesn't look like such a raw deal all of a sudden.

    The people who pass on the TSX solely because it lacks a V6 under the hood are better off in something else, anyway. ("Look, Honey! This Passat has WAY more chrome than the TSX!")

    'Nuff said?
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    What's wrong with chrome? Audi uses it tastefully externally and internally.
  • kthenkekthenke Member Posts: 12
    himiler,

    The fuel efficiency argument does not work too well, since the V6 Accord has actually better mpg estimate than the I-4 in the TSX. I may work for most other comparos though. Also, remember that the TSX requires premium fuel whereas the V6 Accord extracts 240 ponies with 87 octane! Cha-ching!
  • sunilbsunilb Member Posts: 407
    at $27K-$30K, I think they'll lose a lot of customers... this just seems to be too much for this car (especially considering the competition).
  • s852s852 Member Posts: 1,051
    Why are people comparing, debating and speculating on pricing??!!
    There is no pricing set yet.
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    It's sobering.
  • markjennmarkjenn Member Posts: 1,142
    The Autoweek article may be dealer show rumors and chest thumping. But if they do end up with a $28K base MSRP TSX, I think they'll have a lot tough competition.

    Below them, in the FWD sport sedan marketplace, everybody will undercut their prices while providing more power with their V6s, including the Mazda 6 (with upcoming hatchs and wagons), Accord V6, Altima 3.5, and new Maxima. Around their price, they'll be duking it out with A4s, Passats, and G35s, all with either RWD or AWD. And slightly above them, they'll be looking at the 325i, IS300 (with a killer redesign in the wings), and the new MB C230, all with considerably more name plate appeal.

    A nice car and good value at $25K. Tough sledding at $28K. VERY tough sledding.

    - Mark
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    An A4 is 29K in FWD config optioned as a TSX. A 325i BMW optioned as a TSX is 34K. Acura has a built in market with the people who already have an Accord but want something "more". They aren't trying to sell 150,000 of them. The market isn't big enough for that. I figure about 20,000 to 25,000 tops a year. That's about it though.
    A little under half the TL's sales.
  • himilerhimiler Member Posts: 1,209
    The V6 Accord is mated to an auto, isn't it? In which case it will have a very high overdrive and numerically low final drive ratio. Apples to oranges.

    As for the 87 vs. 91 octane argument, just check the specs on the compression ratios and the specific output numbers: although the 2.4L has a slight edge in hp/L (83.4 vs. 80), it makes its power higher in the rev range than the V6, which in turn makes it more prone to fuel detonation. If you want power down low, buy the V6. If you want a motor you have to wring the power out of (relatively speaking, it's no B18C5 after all), buy the TSX. They put the 6spd in for a reason.

    If Acura stickers them ~$28K and can sell them for $26K (which it doubless can and will), the TSX will do just fine.

    RE: Chrome -- Blackout trim around the window exteriors is my preference (remember the chic look of the 1st gen Passat?), and I like to avoid any sort of reflective, high-gloss surface on the interior. Then again, I'm an iconoclast, so I tend to enjoy being on the fringe.
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    I am totally the opposite - no chrome on a luxury badged car makes it look cheap. But if they use it too much (e.g. Passat), it does end up looking bad. Again, Audi does it in moderation, so it ends up looking quite nice.

    The V6 Accord is mated to an auto, but its power comes on very smoothly. Isn't that what the luxury market is about? Besides, the TSX will also come with an automatic transmission...
  • himilerhimiler Member Posts: 1,209
    I don't buy autos, and the TSX is being marketed as a "sports seden," which (for me) instantly rules out the autobox as an option.

    The Accord V6's power comes on smoothly because it's a torque-pig of a motor. And, never mind the TSX, if we're talking "luxury market," then where exactly does the RSX (a car lacking a center armrest) fit in?

    "Luxury" is a marketing buzzword that is pretty subjuctive. To someone in a Cavalier, a TSX is luxurious. To someone in a Bentley, a TSX is a Cavalier.
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    I firmly believe that the RSX should not be an Acura.

    Yes, luxury is subjective, but I'm willing to bet more people will see the TSX, rather than the Cavalier, as a luxury car. The interior of the TSX looks entry luxury (compare it to a "Lexus" IS300) enough for me to classify it was a luxury sedan.
  • himilerhimiler Member Posts: 1,209
    I'm not so sure that Acura is even really trying to sell it as a "luxury sedan." All their press releases appear to put the greatest emphasis on the "sport sedan" angle.

    The interior is pretty sharp, but, being an Acura, there's no good reason for it not to be.
  • chillenhondachillenhonda Member Posts: 105
    the RSX is a weird car for Acura to have, as was the Integra. Since the RSX replaces both the Integra and Prelude, neither of which were luxurious, it seems that Honda should have had a new Prelude replace both the Integra and the 97-01 Prelude, especially since the Prelude name means more than the Integra's. But, as far as the RSX goes, the interior is pretty damn nice for a car that starts under $20,000, and even nicer if you consider its handling and other "sporty" capabilities.
  • jfavourjfavour Member Posts: 105
    I think the idea of the RSX as an Acura is to lure a younger (perhaps 1st time) buyer into Acura's showroom. Obviously the RSX isn't a luxury car, nor does it compete with BMW, Audi, or Lexus. It simply gives Acura a chance to lure a buyer into the brand, hoping they will stay with them as they grow older and want more luxurious rides.

    I think the TSX is another step in this marketing. It gives a younger buyer some brand cache and a 4 door sedan to graduate into once their RSX (or Integra) has gotten too small. Many of these buyers probably won't like the "boring" image of an Accord and might otherwise look at a VW rather than return to Acura or Honda for a 4-door. The TSX offers them a choice within Acura, that gives them a cooler (younger) image and will hopefully keep them in the brand until they graduate to a full luxury car, which Acura hopes will be a TL or RL.

    This is why I don't think the TSX really is a competitor for the likes of BMW or Lexus (or Mazda), but rather VW, which is luring an ever younger buyer. VW has seemingly been attempting to morph into a mid luxury brand, by offering nice interior amenities on nearly all of their cars. They seem to be succeeding in this quest, because nearly every 20-something I know that is looking for a new car with "style" has VW on the top of their list.
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    No, I wouldn't call the TSX a luxury sedan. I should've emphasized entry level luxury. I can tell just by looking at the pictures that the interior is pretty nice. Like I said, a little too VW-ish, but I guess that's one of the reasons why people buy VW's. Guess Acura is trying to woo those customers instead of the BMW people.
  • jfavourjfavour Member Posts: 105
    I went to the chicago auto show web site and looked under new for 2003 production cars and they have several nice pictures of the red TSX car that is making the car show rounds. I don't know if any of these are new pictures, but I hadn't seen them before.
  • mariner7mariner7 Member Posts: 509
    When 1 series & A3 come to America, Acura will have the TSX ready to take them on. TSX might be just what the doctor orders!
  • himilerhimiler Member Posts: 1,209
    Unless you want quattro and an available V8 in your TSX, both of which will be offered on the Audi...
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    A3 with Quattro and V8 would be impressive at $27K, himiler. I wonder how badly it would destroy A4.
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    I'm sure Audi would be smart enough to just discontinue the A4 at that point.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    Who could possibly want an 8-cyl in an A-3? Is Audi really going to offer one? If they do, then they have lost a lot of my respect. What is a next a 16 cylinder mini?
  • kente2kente2 Member Posts: 12
    Will the tsx have seat belt tensiners as a safety feature?

    This feature is on the tl, cl, and possibly the rsx.
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    Are those the kind that tighten up when you hit the brakes hard? If so, even my RAV4 has them.
  • mariner7mariner7 Member Posts: 509
    When BMW & Audi move downmarket with 1s and A3, the advantages of RWD and AWD are pretty much gone, especially with 4 cylinders, which presumably most of them will have. Several months ago, CAR did a comparo with Focus RS, Civic TR, 325ti & another car. Focus & Civic finished 1/2, Bimmer finished last. CAR said its handling is not on level with the others.

    And who needs the weight penalty of AWD in a small car, unless you're going to challenge WRX & Lancer? At the moment, Peugeot is really the rally king, too bad they don't do any business here! I think the advantage shift to the Japanese in the 1s & A3 market, and those cars will find it rough going here! And Honda & Toyota, in that order, make the best 4 cylinder engines in the world!
  • himilerhimiler Member Posts: 1,209
    The 1 Series and A3 will do just fine in this market. It's a brand identity thing.

    I don't forsee a V8-powered A3 for under $30K, but just the fact that they will be offering it says something about where Audi thinks the gains in the luxury market will come from.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    I looked at VWVortex.com and the top engine for the A-3 is a 3.2 liter V-6. No mention of a V-8.
  • himilerhimiler Member Posts: 1,209
    I read that the V8 option would exist in the NA market in either Automobile or R&T mag. Obviously, it's early, but still a neat idea.
  • mariner7mariner7 Member Posts: 509
    What's the point of having A3 V8? So it could compete with the A8 & A6 V8, apparently!
  • himilerhimiler Member Posts: 1,209
    Think RS3. It's a given that BWM will have an M-edition in the 1 Series, so Audi is just making plans for the inevitible.

    Anyone shopping A6/A8 with the 4.2L isn't going to give the idea of a hot-rod A3 a second thought (even if they do eventually offer the V8). Now, on the other hand, someone shopping the WRX STi or Evo VII...
  • ickes_mobileickes_mobile Member Posts: 675
    at the Chicago autoshow. Its spot on the Saab 9-3, Volvo S60 or Audi A4. The interior looks top notch as it will need to because Audi is the best in the business and the new 9-3 is pretty good too.

    My other main impression from the Autoshow is I don't know why Detroit even bothers. Aside from the aforementioned 9-3, all the new Detroit stuff is pretty crappy. The GTO looks positively dull and the GP is a joke of the same bad design and plastic as every previous car. The new Chrysler Pacifica was generating lots of traffic, but I was underwhelmed.
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    ickes - did you see the TSX with the metal trim or wood trim? Would you say the interiors of the cars you mentioned looked better or about the same?

    IMO, the Audi is tops. The Volvo is just OK, and there is just way too much black plastic in the Saab.
  • varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    Kente2 - Did you mean the lap pretensioners? Most cars have shoulder prestensioned belts. Honda added a pretensioner to the lap portion of the belt as well. As far as I know, it was first seen on the 01 Civic and also used with the new CR-V. I assume it is being used on other Honda cars, but I haven't read up on it.
  • ickes_mobileickes_mobile Member Posts: 675
    It had both wood and metal trim. Mostly wood however, to match the light tan leather. The Saab was pretty dark, but it all felt pretty good.
  • kente2kente2 Member Posts: 12
    I reviewed the acura web site and there is mention of the pretensioners as standard equipment on tl and rsx.

    there is discussion on accord site of poor idle with automatic trans and 4 cyl engine, will tsx also suffer from this or is the transmission format more like the civic?

    tsx seems like a great commuter car/weekend family car compromise if there is enough interior room for this 6 footer.
  • bravedavebravedave Member Posts: 100
    This evening, the wife & I will attend the North Carolina Auto Expo in downtown Raleigh. The TSX is supposed to be on display. I hope they will have the car open so we can explore it in more detail, particularly the car's rear seat space. I'll prolly make a posting on what we think late tonight or perhaps tomorrow.
  • bravedavebravedave Member Posts: 100
    Well, we're back. We have decided the TSX is a wee bit too small for us. The attendant at the auto show indicated the pricing would be in the high 20's. Had the price been less, it would have been different. Methinks I'll stick with an Accord V6. The extra horsepower and torque will overwhelm whatever extra edge the TSX may have in the handling department. The TSX may be a few tenths quicker in the twisties, but the Accord V6 will have the highway edge. These are both excellant vehicles--- with their own market niches--- which I do not believe are as far apart as the marketing hype would lead you to believe.
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