Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see May lease deals!
Options
Acura TSX
This discussion has been closed.
Most popular vehicles
Popular New Cars
- New Acura MDX
- New Acura RDX
- New Audi Q5
- New BMW 3 Series
- New BMW X3
- New Buick Enclave
- New Cadillac Escalade
- New Chevrolet Equinox
- New Chrysler 300
- New Dodge Challenger
- New Ford Edge
- New Ford Escape
- New Ford Expedition
- New Ford Explorer
- New Ford F-150
- New Ford Focus
- New Ford Mustang
- New Honda Accord
- New Honda Civic
- New Honda CR-V
- New Honda Fit
- New Honda Odyssey
- New Honda Pilot
- New Hyundai Elantra
- New Hyundai Santa Fe
- New Hyundai Sonata
- New Hyundai Tucson
- New Jeep Compass
- New Jeep Grand Cherokee
- New Jeep Wrangler
- New Mazda 3
- New Mazda 6
- New Mazda CX-5
- New Nissan Altima
- New Nissan Maxima
- New Nissan Rogue
- New Porsche Cayenne
- New Ram 1500
- New Subaru Crosstrek
- New Subaru Forester
- New Subaru Impreza
- New Subaru Outback
- New Tesla Model S
- New Tesla Model X
- New Toyota 4Runner
- New Toyota Camry
- New Toyota Corolla
- New Toyota Highlander
- New Toyota Prius
- New Toyota RAV4
- New Toyota Sienna
- New Toyota Tacoma
- New Volkswagen Jetta
- New Volvo XC60
- New Volvo XC90
Popular Used Sedans
- Used BMW 5 Series
- Used Chevrolet Impala
- Used Chevrolet Malibu
- Used Chrysler 200
- Used Dodge Charger
- Used Ford Fusion
- Used Ford Taurus
- Used Honda Accord
- Used Honda Civic
- Used Hyundai Elantra
- Used Hyundai Sonata
- Used Tesla Model S
- Used Toyota Camry
- Used Toyota Corolla
- Used Volkswagen Jetta
Popular Used SUVs
- Used Acura MDX
- Used Acura RDX
- Used Ford Edge
- Used Ford Explorer
- Used Honda CR-V
- Used Honda Pilot
- Used Hyundai Santa Fe
- Used Jeep Compass
- Used Lincoln Navigator
- Used Mazda CX-5
- Used Nissan Rogue
- Used Subaru Crosstrek
- Used Subaru Forester
- Used Tesla Model X
- Used Volvo XC90
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
A well equipped Audi A4 1.8T can be had for about $26K.
A nicely equipped BMW 325i can be had for about $28K.
And the 14.4 and 14.6 times come from the actual article that the link came from. Those are the quarter mile times. The article is in the July 2002 C@D as I refered to in my last post.
"NEW" isn't always a good thing... it's well known that a new model tends to have the most bugs in it. Then, over the x-year life span of that model these bugs are worked out.
Clearly, this is from a reliability and ease of maintenance perspective. This can be offset by the "New"-ness of features and toys that are found in the latest models. For some, this is important.
Personally, "new" doesn't equal "better" in my book and I prefer better.
So the very 1st yr German car is fancy but stupid. Only the mid-generation face-lift year will seem kind of new & not too unreliable. Any year after that will not look "new" again.
I risked the 1st yr '90 Protege, which is made in Japan, & a few bugs were easily taken cared of by the dealers in the beginning. Then the car lasted forever w/ very few problems. I'm still driving it now at around 190k miles. Even the interior furnitures are not falling apart.
New TSX? No sweat!
A well equipped Audi A4 1.8T can be had for about $26K.
A nicely equipped BMW 325i can be had for about $28K."
Well, I guess it depends on what "well equipped" and "nicely equipped" means to you for the Audi and BMW. Certainly these prices aren't comparably equipped to the TSX. In fact, a new 325i's base MSRP is $27,800 (including destination=$28,495), and I don't know of anybody paying less that $1000 under MSRP. If you know where I can get one nicely equipped for 28K, please tell me so I can take a vacation there this summer. Now, it may be WORTH the extra, but that's a different topic.
Also, there have been a few comments on the newness of the TSX, but isn't it mostly a European Accord? How new is that car?
As new as the US-Accord that debuted a few months back.
Later...AH
$23,530 Euro invoice
$ 955 Moonroof
$ 455 Heated Seats
$ 695 Destination
-------
$25,635
$ 1,500 Dealer profit
$ 1,000 Airfare and 2 nights lodging
-------
$28,135
$ -500 BMWCCA Member discount
-------
$27,635
Add about $2000 if you want to buy it in the US and save the airfare and hotel.
Personally, I'm thinking Euro delivery 325i or GM employee purchase Saab 9-3 ($22,900 with sport package and moonroof).
This is fun. But we should probably add money to compensate for time out of work, munchies, and t-shirts for the family.
Wait and see on how Acura deals on the TSX, MSRP doesn't look right.
Had a BMW 3series for 9 months and had nothing but trouble, was on foot twice; don't ever buy a used BMW and make sure you don't need to depend on it daily either. Take note of how many break downs on the highway are BMWs. I was on first name basis with a mechanic during those 9 months.
Here's a Saab 9-3 equipped 'comparably' to a TSX with the manual. It's tough to make everything comparable since the TSX has some unique items, and the 9-3 has some unique items.
Invoice prices:
$24,443 Saab 9-3 Linear
$2,258 Launch Pkg
$1,127 Sport Pkg
$866 Touring Pkg
$431 Heated Seats
$625 Destination
=======
$29,750 Total Invoice
+ 250 Some dealer profit above invoice
- 2,500 Discounts based on purchase
=======
$27,500 Total
However, metallic paint is another $411, I believe. Adding an automatic will definitely make the Ssab more expensive because it's extra-cost.
The $2,500 discounts ($1,000 incentive off the Launch Package, $1,500 for not using discounted Saab Financing) is very widely available. Saab dealers will let a 9-3 Linear go for $0 to $500 profit margin above the holdback.
There is also a newer $3,000 discount that may be used in place, but it hasn't been fully confirmed yet.
Edmunds TMV is wrong with its 9-3 prices.
This is not to say that the 9-3 is better than the TSX, or the TSX is better than the 9-3. Only that there are actually some comparable choices at the same price level. Comes down to your priorities.
I'll have to give one a test drive one of these days. The fit and finish on the car looks fan-f'ing-tastic!!
Obi
And are they foglamps, or driving lights?
I came away VERY impressed.
The interior is very classy, although quite "cool" if you get the combos with the black and gray leather which uses alum dash trim. (The parchment interiors are much warmer with the wood trim, although the particular type of fake wood they use is really strange looking - it doesn't look bad, but it doesn't look much like any wood I've ever seen.) Instruments are very high tech and readable, seats are quite supportive without being restrictive, and the back seat, while tight, has enough space in the right places to be habitable, at least for short rides.
The fit/finish is exceptional. Everything has an extremely buttoned down and solid feel. The car looks and feels much more carefully built than the Jetta GLI I looked at yesterday. It easily matches the fit/finish of the Lexus GS300 I'm currently driving.
But what I came away most impressed with is the engine and transmission. I was expecting it to be very soft on the bottom end, but it felt fairly responsive. It will lug around at 2K just fine, albeit with not a lot of power. It builds power very linearily and smoothly to redline. It never hits hard or feels peaky at all - just a nice smooth build of power from modest to respectable.
What was most impressive was the smoothness and lack of strain even at elevated RPM. If I wanted to have more power on tap, I simply kept the engine spinning at 4K or so when I normally would upshift in another car. Honestly, this engine sounds and feels at 5K about like most engines do at 3K.
So if you have the manual, you can get adequate power just by delaying your shifts a bit. (With the automatic, I could see how this might be more of a problem as I'm sure the auto aggressively upshifts to get better mileage. It might be annoying to have to kick down a gear or two every time you wanted any real scoot.)
The transmission and shifter are great. Light action, reasonable throws. Loved the small, almost delicate shifter.
Another thing I really liked about his car was that it has very little torque steer. Part of this is the soft torque at low RPM - since the power builds so linearily, you never get a power spike that jerks the car at all.
Another thing I noticed was that the traction control system was extremely refined and responsive. If you accelerated hard enough to break the front tires loose (today was raining so this was easy to check), the traction control system would kick in, but it would do it in a very progressive, quick, and unobtrusive fashion - as soon as the wheel regained traction it would let it go again. On the Jetta I drove, the traction control system would kick in very aggressively and make the car literally die for a second or two. The ABS was great too. Honda has really got the electronics down in this one.
Handling seemed the least FWD of any car I've driven. I'm sure it pushes at the limit, but you'd have to be going very fast to make this an issue, probably faster than any of us should be going on the street. This is by far the best behaved FWD car I've driven.
I played around with the nav system on the floor model and it is very sophisticated and does a credible job of speech recognition without training. It's not worth $2K to me, but its the best nav system I've seen.
All-in-all, I really came away jazzed about this car.
But ... the dealer was very hard-nosed about pricing. They made it seem like they were doing me a big favor by "only getting MSRP", they wanted a non-refundable deposit to put my name on a car coming in 1-2 months, and they refused to guarantee me a trade-in value for my car when the new car comes in. I told them that the only way I'd put non-refundable money down on a car was either with a guaranteed value on my trade, or by stipulating that the deposit was refundable if they revalued my trade later. They replied that "they'd wouldn't hold my deposit in this situation", but refunsed to agree to put anything on the sales contract to this affect.
Their response was that they didn't have to make any accomodations since the car was going to be sold out for months anyway. Their attitude is at best arrogant and at worst downright rude.
So I think I'll stay on the sidelines for a few months and see what happens. I'm also interested in the Mazda 6 hatchback and we should have an arrival date for it in a few months. I certainly don't need to be the first kid on the block with one of these.
But the car is impressive. It feels to me like a lighter, tauter, cheaper, and less gimmicky IS300.
- Mark
I beg to differ...a lot of folks are buying Saab 9-3's for about $25K right now.
A well equipped Audi A4 1.8T can be had for about $26K.
Comparing apples to apples (MSRP to MSRP, destination included),
Base A4/1.8T: $25,760 (5-speed manual)
Sport Package: $1000
Leather/Moon roof package: $2000
Cold Weather Package: $600
Xenon Head lamps: $500
Total with comparable features: $29,860. Now, if someone can get it for $26K, great. But we don't know, yet, what one could get TSX for. That said, if near luxury features are not required, what is the point of paying near luxury price tag? For less than $26K, there are plenty of nice and powerful cars (Passat and Accord included).
bmw_fan
You're correct about QM time. That and 0-60 time difference is likely affected by launch issues, besides that CL-S being 200 lb. heavier. Although C&D mentions 330Ci as weighing 3357 lb., BMW lists it as 3285 lb. So, based on size and weight, CL-S would be comparable to 530 (3494 lb.).
The same comparison test has some other numbers, including 5-60 mph acceleration (rolling start instead of a launch).
CL-S: 6.2s (0-60 in 5.9s)
330Ci: 6.5s (0-60 in 5.8s)
Something that I found interesting in the test was the 0-100 mph acceleration. Although both cars ran quarter mile approaching 100 mph at the end of the run, the 0-100 mph acceleration yielded following numbers,
CL-S: 15.2s
330Ci: 15.5s
sunilb
Personally, "new" doesn't equal "better" in my book and I prefer better.
I'm assuming that gee's comment on 'new' was to bring home a point about being new in the market from pricing point of view. Dealers at this point are still evaluating the market value of the car.
jfavour
The european accord that the TSX is based on is also a brand new design. I believe it just went on sale in europe within the past few months.
European Accord went on sale in March, but Japanese Accord has been on sale since September (around the same time as American Accord). In fact, there is no European Accord equivalent to TSX, yet. The Acura is basically a hybrid of the Japanese Accord 24TL (features) and Accord 24S (Chassis).
It is supposed to be more expensive than even the current TL.
If you want a bigger, V6 car for more money, then wait.
The TL will definitely be more expensive, but the question is how much? There are some folks that are shopping in the $27k-$32k range, which the TSX falls in, and (hopefully) the new TL will be in the same range too.
Since Acura has not released any pricing on the new TL, and being that the new TL will be out in only a couple of months (October), I dont think there is any harm in waiting. If the new TL wont be coming out until a year from now, sure buy the TSX if you need a car right away. If it winds up being too expensive for me then I'll cross it off my list. Until then, I am in no rush to get the TSX.
I mean, size of car or engine is not the only consideration in the purchase. If I like the style, the ride is great and the price is right, why not?
Especially with such an expensive purchase as a car, you dont want to make a decision that you will regret later. Dont you agree?
Dont get me wrong, I like the TSX. But I dont want to regret my purchase only 6 months down the road when I find out that I like the TL better and that I could have afforded it.
I enjoyed Markjenns review of the TSX and I agree that it's an exciting car. I think that the quality, performance, and expected long-term durability associated with the Acura name make the TSX a good value...even at MSRP. Unfortunately, his experience hints at the typical service one will likely receive from Acura dealerships nationwide.
Rude sales staff, pay MSRP+, leave a deposit, wait 2 months, find out they sold "your" car to someone else, fight to get your deposit back...
On the other hand, if you walk into an Audi or Saab dealership right now, they'll courteously sell you a beautiful, near-lux sedan for $500 over invoice.
Apples to apples = reality to reality.
Were you trying to compare fiction to reality?
i test drove an automatic and found it to be very responsive. i knew the comments about tepid acceleration would turn out to be incorrect (to me anyway). it felt comparable to my 1.8t jetta. i'm sure my jetta has more low end grunt but overall the tsx engine just shines. smooth and linear with decent torque above 3000 rpms. i'm confident test drives will show automatic tsxs reaching 60 mph in the high 7 second/low eight second range. i didn't have a chance to rev the car to redline being a brand new car and a salesman along for the ride.
as mentioned, the auto will upshift when you don't want it to at times. simple cure, use the manualmatic feature when you want to drive aggressively. it responds very quickly. also, i'm sure the automatic will learn about your driving patterns and adjust its shifting patterns. at 60 mph the car cruises at around 2000 rpms (nice use of the fifth gear). i was surprised how quiet this is car is when it does cruise. i don't know how this makes the car boring because if you hit it you can then hear the pleasant sound of the engine revving up.
i'll admit that i'm not a big guru about a car's handling so it's handling abilities are good enough for me. it reminded me of the maxda 6s in that department. i found the 6s engine to be less lively than the tsx (auto to auto anyway).
i was skeptical about the gauges when i first saw them, but now i find them to be very cool. the interior in gray with the alum. inserts look really classy to me. not too dark and you don't have to deal with the wood with the beige interior. i'm not a fan of wood (real or fake).
i know the accord v6 will out accelerate a tsx auto but the tsx will be a blast to drive on some curvy country road. and when it's time to cruise (which is most of the time) its very relaxed.
i was set to get an accord until the test drive, now i'm leaning towards the tsx. to me it's worth the extras money. well not now, but later when it sells for less than sticker. manual users may have a tougher time getting a good discount with only 25% of the 15k coming equipped with manual trannys.
If you really wanted a bigger, more powerful, and more expensive car, looking at the TSX is a waste of time, because you definately will be disappointed if you buy it in that case especially when you can get a bigger 240HP Accord for less money.
If you are satisfied, then there is no reason to wait for the TL.
The TL is supposed to be for people who are not satisisfied with the power and luxury features of an Accord EXV6 and want more, not those looking for a compact nimble sedan similar to a Saab 9-3 or Audi A4 1.8T.
As for all those saying it should have a V6, well, all I can say is it goes like a bat out of hell, gets 31+ highway MPG, and is about as tight as any car I've ever driven. And it's a blast to drive. Are there quicker models out there? Sure, no doubt. Will you ever need the extra power? No, not ever. You will just pay for all the extra gas you will burn, but you sure won't get there any quicker, or faster. Having a V6 under there may make you feel superior, but it won't in reality make it so.
Granted, the TSX is not a BMW 330i; it's not supposed to be and accordingly it doesn't cost 35K+. But it's certainly no Accord, either. Not even close. If you didn't know it, you wouldn't even know they were related the way it drives, handles, as well as the build quality.
What it is, is a very good value for what you get.
Just my two cents, for what's it's worth. If you want a V6, spend another 8k to get one. It's your money. But the difference in real performance is more of perception than anything else.
As for not needing more power, it certainly sounds like you're satisfied. Personally, I'd prefer to decide for myself about the need for (or benefit of) additional HP and torque, and any associated increase in operating costs.
Congrats on your new car!
I also looked at a satin silver model. This is a very straightforward pure silver and looks nice but generic. They had a red one on the showroom which was stunning, but I've had bad luck with sun fading with red cars and I remember reading somewhere that red is the worst for fading. They also had a black TSX. It looked nice, but I think small cars tend to look better in lighter colors and I have zero interest in hand-washing a car every week which is what it takes to keep a black car looking decent.
The color/interior combos are all described in the brochure and look nicely coordinated. The silvers and gray have the black or gray leather (meteor silver only has gray leather), the blue has the black leather, the red and white get the parchment leather, and the blacks get either parchment or black leather. The gray leather is somewhat dark, so looks like a good compromise if you want something not too bad to maintain while avoiding the "coal bin" look of the black.
The parchment always gets the "weird wood" trim, everything else gets the alum trim. The center console is normally black, but the Acura dealers are pushing a dealer-installed accessory to continue the alum trim down the center console. It does match perfectly so if you like your interior covered in high-tech looking alum trim, this is the way to go.
One final thought to add to my test drive: This car has a lot of personality! I've been test driving six or seven cars in this class and while all good, none had me contemplating buying on the way home. Mostly I attribute this to the fact that my GS300 is such a nice car and I'm "trading down" a bit, so I usually drive home saying to myself, "This five-year-old car drives better than the new one I just drove - why would I want to lay out $10K and trade?". Not so with the TSX.
- Mark
One cool thing was the Acura MP3 player which snaps into a defined spot below the radio. This had me looking in this spot for standard RCA input jacks to the stereo, but there was nothing I could see - I guess there is some kind of connector behind the snap-in trim panel. I bet it is proprietary though so using your own MP3 player might be tough.
(The salesman said they were only charging $550+installation and how that was a "great deal" for a car MP3 player so why would I want to use one of my own? But that gets back to the way sales people often talk-down to customers.)
- Mark
CTS: Good looking car, pretty well equipped. Definitely larger than the other two; Engine was somewhat hesitant when accelerating; shifter was notchy; Solid chassis; Best seats; Most expensive when comparably equipped, even with current GM discounts.
SAAB 9-3 Linear: Much better looking in person than photos; Good size; suprisingly sprite acceleration and smooth revving from 2.0 L four; Best shifter of the three; Interior was more plasticky than others; SAAB does not offer an extended warranty program?
TSX: All around best of the three; Much better looking than Accord, especially with the chrome accents; Decent size; good acceleration and smooth revving from 200 hp four, but you do have to get up in the rpms to get it going; Somewhat gated 6-speed shifter; great chassis dynamics; Excellent fit and finish (interior and exterior); Best equipped; Dealer unwilling to budge off MSRP.
Now, if I could only locate an Acura dealer in Michigan that would be willing to deal on a TSX.
True. Paying a little more will get a little bigger, more powerful sedan with little more features in the form of TL. But, if the buyer does not want to settle down for a touring sedan that base TL is and would be, he/she will have to spend a little more for TL-S. Now, we may be talking $32K. On the other side, another narrow spectrum of buyers, willing to move up from $23K RSX, into something with 4-doors will have TSX to choose from. A few of these potential buyers will have the ability to understand the difference between a mainstream touring sedan that Accord is, and the lifestyle sport sedan that TSX is meant to be. They will not have to go all the way to $32K TL-S for the next available choice as TSX sits right in the middle.
You don't have to spend 8K to get a V6 (or I6, as the case may be) in a different car. You can get more power from a turbo four (Saab) for less money than the TSX.
FYI, turbo I-4 does not equal V6 (or I-6). Otherwise, I don't see a reason that Audi needs to offer a V6 to go with the 1.8T.
I have the 5AT Base model. I drove about 340 miles in mixed city/highway and put it a little over 11 gallons, so I averaged about 31 mpg.
Don't get me wrong. The BMW is a nice car. Not as reliable, but nice nonetheless, and I certainly wouldn't turn down a 330 series if someone gave me one. But I have a hard time justifying the extra cost for what you get (and I could easily do so). But some here are comparing the TSX to the v6 BMW 330i series, and granted, it's not a proper comparison. But it does compare to the 325 series quite well, and when you add reliability, value, and just plain fun, the TSX wins. Again, that's just my opinion, and I respect anyone else whose opinion may differ. I sort of like getting my money's worth, and feel I did with the TSX.
The TSX is just a blast to drive, is all I know. The 4 seems to be well integrated into the design; in fact while a 6 would be faster no doubt, I'm not sure it would be as balanced. But my point is so what if it gets there in 6.3 vs. 6.9 seconds? How often do your really push it flat out, or even need to? The TSX gets there plenty fast for me! But if we all liked the same thing, think how boring life would be!
As for the 70mph and tach speed, around 2300 or so is my guess. I'll look next time to be sure and let you know later.
Downright un-American if you ask me.
Jonesok1 - Congrats on your new ride.
2. Have you looked at the IS300?
I currently have both a 03EXV6 Accord Coupe (it's another family member's drive;and I drove a 03EXV6 Sedan for about 3 weeks before Honda replaced it.
There is no comparison. The EXV6 Coupe does have a V6, and drives closer to the the TSX in handling, but there is hardly any noticeable difference in power curves between the two as you drive the car. In fact, maybe it's just because the 4 revs higher, but the TSX SEEMS quicker than the EXV6. And the TSX is much nicer inside, has a better fit and finish (although the Coupe is pretty good, too), and more fun to drive.
The Sedan was just plain boring compared to the TSX. Fit and finish on it was average at best, and worse than average at worst. It had numerous rattles, noises, and a fatal creak in the A-Pillar that couldn't be fixed.
The TSX has nary a rattle, pop or any noise. Much better sound proofing. It just has a feel like a much nicer car than the sedan, both in appearance and in build quality.
Drive em' both and decide. The TSX wins hands down for me. Other views may respectfully differ, but I wouldn't be concerned about the TSX being under powered. It just isn't so.
As for the TL, you can get a great buy on one considering in a few months it will be last years model. I'd wait until the 04 TL comes out if you want a bigger less sporty sedan.
I wouldn't call TSX underpowered. May be the cars we are comparing it against have excess power. Case in point, my own choice in 1997. I had the following choices for my budget,
Accord LXV6 (200 HP), $22.3K
Accord EX-L (150 HP), $23.1K
Accord EXV6 (200 HP), $24.3K
I could have gotten any of those cars at 90% of their MSRP (the easiest way to figure out the invoice price). EX-L offered more features than LXV6, but not the power. The latter I had no use for my needs. EXV6 was nice, but I couldn't justify the need to spend over a grand and knowing that I will be getting 2-3 mpg less to get the extra power I didn't need. The four-banger is responsive and quick enough for everything but bragging rights. Next time around, my choice from Honda family for my budget (around $25K) will be either EX-L or TSX.
Right now I have an 02 Maxima SE, and don't get me wrong, it has probably been one of the best cars I have ever owned when it comes to build quality and reliabilty. Problem is, the torque steer is awful! I have gotten used to it, and the car DOES fly like a bat out of hell, but still, torque steer stinks (FWIW).
Anyway, I LOVE the looks of the new TSX!! I would go back to a 4 banger in a minute if I could afford a TSX right now. It looks like the type of car that would remind me of a 4 door version of the old 95 Integra GS-R I used to own (probably the 2nd best car I've owned in regards to build/quality/reliabilty). So, no, I won't blast Acura for throwing a 2.4L 4 Cyl into this car. After all, Honda/Acura does make the best 4 bangers out there. Just look at the S2000!!
Obi
Personally I am not willing to pay MSRP, yet anyway, because I feel I'd be basically be paying for a markup on something because of the newness,when i could wait a couple of months (hopefully) and get a 1000+ off of sticker. We'll see.