By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
The Mazda6s V6 Auto only manages a 8.0 so it's still in the hunt as far as automatics. I'm sure other automatics in the TSX class are around .5 sec of that time.
7.0s w/6-speed
7.8s w/5-speed auto
check out the Mazda6i(4cyl) too.
It has better handling and "feel" to it than the v6.
robertsmx: Your guess seems to be more representative of "real" world numbers than C&D's, and I hope those times are what the TSX gets.
bodble2: I am thinking the same way as you. I am defintely going to wait for the TL to come out, lest I get buyer's remorse. If the TL comes out to be too expensive for my budget(more than 32k) then I will go the TSX route. October is only 6 months away.
Hmmm G35 coupe, TSX or TL ... arg decisions decisions
7.0s w/6-speed
7.8s w/5-speed auto"
With the 6th gear revving more than 25% higher than the auto's 5th gear. It can't be only 0.8s apart.
That sucks, how often do you get to enjoy it then?
Having NVH isolation is a good thing as long as the steering is highly communicative, which is not really there in the TSX's steering. I remember, from an Automobile issue, the Focus engineer talked about how you can tell about the steering by the 1ST 50 METERS of drive. A car can be very enjoyable to handle at both low & high speed, such as the E36 3-series, Mini Cooper, Focus SVT, & even the less-rock-steady IS300 and 1977 MGB.
I don't know what Honda can do to distinquish the TL from lesser models. AWD? 300+ HP? Active suspension?
Hmmm less than 30k for the new 2004 TL? That is awefully close to a fully loaded TSX Nav coming in at almost $29000.
A lot of people thought the TSX was going to have a base price of $25k and were disappointed when the TSX came in at $1500 more. Because of this, there is concern that the new TL will be priced between 32-36k, which is what the Infiniti G35 (w/ leather) price point is at right now.
Dont get me wrong, I would love the TL to come in at 30k, but would that not cannibalize TSX sales? I mean sure the TSX is smaller and nimbler, but Americans tend to prefer V6 engines with lots of torque over a high-horsepower I4.
It would be a welcome (and much appreciated) surprise if the Acura TL pricing remains at 30k.
At that price it doesn't have Bose, homelink, or a moonroof, but it is a lot more car than the $27,000 TSX (or the TL).
But I do think Acura needs a RWD model to remain competitive.
Either you want the GPS or you don't. If you don't want it, the TSX is in the 26K range, if you do want it, the TL is 31-33,9K before discounting depending on if Type S or not.
The TSX is new and in short supply and is not being discounted much. When the TL and CL were new, they were not discounted either.
Either you want a smaller, nimbler, more modern TSX, or you want a larger, more luxurious. older TL.
If you are that concerned about the price, you should really be looking at an Accord to get a better value.
The TSX compares best to an Audi A4 1.8t, Saab 9-3 or Volvo S40.
kradue: You hit the nail right on the head. Some people will simply buy the TSX because its made entirely in Japan where build quality is perceived to be better than with a car built in the US/Canada.
I hope that Acura does not shoot itself in the foot and alieniate some of its customer base. The TL was the best "bang for the buck" in its segment because it undercut everybody in price while having high content. The new 2004 TL will still be high in content no doubt, but it looks like the value part is no longer true if its going be priced at 32k or greater. I am wishing like everybody that its going to be less than 30k like the old TL, but rumors I have read on various web-sites say the new TL will definitely be a few grand higher than the outgoing model.
I believe the TSX price is 26,990.00 which is a nicer way of saying 27K. It is definitely not 26K. With the Navigation, it takes the price to $28,990 which is a nice way of saying 29K.
Later...AH
If the red line isn't high enough, the close-ratio 6-sp would probably need to shift to 3rd gear right before the 60mph mark, so the extra shifting time might delay the manual's 0-60 time. But having only 0.8s faster than the wide-ratio auto is still very close. Judging from the tall top gear, I think, as long as the 5 gear ratios are fairly evenly apart, the 1st 2 gears should still be tall enough to slow down the auto TSX a lot.
I drove three TSXs yesterday at two different dealerships: two automatics and a manual. My impressions are as follows.
The first place I went was charging a HUGE markup over sticker. The car I drove was an auto, no navigation, and had a spoiler ($799 extra). The "addendum" to the sticker had the price at almost $32,000!!
Later I went to another dealer and being Friday night (how sad that this is what I do on a Friday night), there was only one salesman and only one customer (me). He had not yet even been inside a TSX, so he brought out all the keys to the three they had and let me look at them. Well, I got to drive the stick and the auto back to back and spent about 15 minutes driving each. I have no idea what the 0-60 times were, but the manual was obviously much quicker than the auto. I also noticed that the manual was more engaging. It seemed louder to me (could be my imagination I suppose) and had more character. The second dealer was charging sticker price.
I say, "Bring on the CVT!" Audi's got it, & handles torquy engines. So, free the 200 horses whole day long, all from a light-weight-4-cyl normally-aspirated smooth engine! & look who's envying whom.
TL with NAV (and Destination), assuming that it starts at $29750, would be $32250, not $29K. That is a substantial difference. And not to forget, TSX is being marketed as a sport sedan, TL, would be a touring sedan (with Type-S being the Sport trim).
MSRP is $26490, not $26,990. So, if not nicer, a better way to say it would be $26K, not $27K.
I have noticed that the 5 colors available in Canada are:
Blue,Red,Black,White and Satin Silver.
USA has 7 colors including the Carbon Gray which I wanted. Also, the warranty in Canada is 3yr/ 60,000 km vs 4yr/50,000 miles which is approx 80,000 km . MRSP is 34,800 the TL MRSP is 37,800 and can purchase for 35,800.
Honda Canada I am out....hello BMW!
True. But in TSX, the redline is high enough to go with the short gearing (6-speed) and deliver 60 mph+ in second gear.
Honda typically uses a taller ratios with auto, often pulling about 75 or more mph in the second. Still, 0.8s off manual transmission mark is a guess based on observing other Hondas. Acura CL-S is capable of doing 0-60 in 5.9s, and with auto, the difference has been actually less than 0.8s (usually 6.3-6.7s range).
This is a fun car with lots of torque and a big interior. It definitely has power to spare. However for a few reasons, I think the automatic is the tranny for that car.
First, the clutch requires some effort. By the end of the test drive, I noticed my leg was not precisely sore, but I could tell I had been using it. The car is such that it will go fast in just about any gear.
The times I did get on it, I could feel the torque steer, it would bite on one side or the other.
I think a Manu-matic is the way to go with the Maxima. It lends itself to a relaxed style of driving and not a banzai mode like a 4 cylinder stick would.
Compare this to my brief test drive of the TSX earlier this week.
TSX gives up torque and hp to the Maxima. Also interior space. I was suprised how similar they are in weight (3200 + pounds). The Maxima clearly weighs more, but not as much as you would think given the size.
The advantages of the TSX over a Maxima 6 speed for me are:
- lighter clutch action
- better interior
- lower price
- better handling
I have seen Nighthawk Black and Silver in the flesh and have to give the nod to silver with ebony interior.
I'd like to see a Meteor Silver, an Artic Blue and a Carbon Gray. Any links would be appreciated.
Also a photo of the Quartz exterior.
Thanks.
I drove the Accord first -- it was very refined and felt firm and sturdy. Acceleration was fabulous and the interior was very nice (I liked the graphite exterior w/gray interior the best). Overall, I was very impressed.
Then I drove the TSX and began to waver from the Accord. Even in the parking lot, the TSX felt firmer and sturdier. The interior had a more European, buttoned-down look (I preferred the black interior to the parchment). Though it didn't seem to accelerate as well as the Accord, it was plenty sufficient and lots of fun. It also had a generally younger and sportier feel than the Accord. While smaller inside, it's still not bad.
Now I'm in a quandary, because I liked them both for various reasons. I feel swayed toward the Accord for financial reasons (since people have been paying around $23K), and for the larger interior space, power passenger seat and V6 engine. I like the spirit of the TSX better, though, and I felt younger in it than in the Accord.
It's going to be a tough choice for me. These are the only cars I'm really interesed in at this point. I'll probably have to take a few more test drives before I make up my mind.
As a final note, my husband and I agreed that both cars seemed up to the standards of his Lexus in terms of finish quality and general feel. (But they were more fun to drive!)
I personally hate doing a 5-point turn when a 3-point turn would do. So I'd stay away from this "huge-40ft U-turn" car. & the wall-to-wall turning circle is likely to be way lager than that!
I've heard that some Accords, especially 4-cylinder sedans, are made-in-Japan just like TSX & almost all Lexus vehicles.
So, unless you can't stand Accord sedan's "ugly butt"...
Again, you are back to your unpaid Acura propagandist's role, essentially shifting facts around to make the TSX look better than it actually is.....
The TSX comes with an MSRP + non-negotiable destination charge of $ 26,990 (without Navigation) and a Navigation model comes with the MSRP + non-negotiable destination charge of $ 28,990. Hope that clears things up a bit.
I consider $26,990 as $27,000 and not $ 26,000. Also, $28,990 sounds eerily close to $29,000, even though you could theoretically say that it comes in at a sub-29K price.
Later...AH
The car handled very well. The space was at a premium, however. The rear felt very tight with the front seats at my normal driving position. The trunk etc., felt a lot narrower than the TL's/Accord's trunk.
They only had the "titanium finish" interior version in stock at the dealership. So I could not check out a copy with the parchment leather (which would be my choice) and the fake-wood combination.
The handling of the car stood out. I was pleased with the heft in the steering wheel and the feedback provided. The Accord was way behind in this department, even though the overall feel was similar.
The acceleration of the car was definitely not upto the hype. Maybe because I just stepped out of my 2000 TL (with 225HP) or whatever, but the acceleration feel in the Automatic TSX was tepid at best. The manual TSX was considerably better in the acceleration dept but in no way shape or form was it electrifying, for want of a better word.
I come back to my earlier refrain about the TSX...this car needs a torquier, small V6 with around 2.5-2.8L displacement, or this engine needs a lighter car. The car itself is a heavy specimen and all the numbers generated by the engine cannot disguise that. Honda has certainly met its "numbers" as far as the engine output was concerned. But that simply cannot disguise the fact that this engine is lugging along a pretty hefty/dense pile of metal. You do not get this feeling of inadequacy when driving a BMW 325i with the 2.5L I-6, whose "numbers" don't seem as impressive as that of this Honda....the BMW feels very powerful all over the powerband, possibly due to gearing meant to make it so. If so, then what prevents Honda from improving the gearing of the TSX ??
With a small V6, I would recommend this car to anyone needing a FWD great handling car. Within a couple of months, I would predict that the prices would definitely come down to earth....the dealers seem to have become resigned to such a possibility.
Later...AH
In terms of build quality-- there is no comparison between the TSX and my Intrigue-- the TSX is definately superior. Plus, the Intrigue is paid for. Since it has no real trade in value, I intend to drive it until it drops... I think I can get 200k miles out of her before that happens... When that does happen, I think an Accord V6 will be a better choice for us. For those who like manual cars who have no kids, the TSX would be an excellant choice.
BTW-- this was my first attempt driving a car with a navigation system. I emphatically DO NOT LIKE IT. To me, it seems like a $2000 option for which a $5 map from the book store could better serve. It is also somewhat distracting, for me anyway. To me, that is a safety issue which could be just as distracting as a cell phone. Just my 2 cents...
About the size, the trunk is a good deal smaller than the Intrigue's, but I'm curious about the rear seat. Did you have trouble fitting a car seat in the back? I'm just thinking that rear seat space wouldn't be that big of a deal to a young child. I will likely be starting a family in the next couple of years and would like to know your reasoning.
I do agree about the navigation system. It might be a fun toy if you've got an extra $2000 laying around, but most of us don't. I have yet to read a review of any car that goes anything like, "the navigation system really makes this car worthwhile..."
Too bad that our current cars are close to worthless as trade-ins. I drive about 500 miles a week and I worry that my car won't make it 200K miles before it checks out. I'm starting to have some problems at 81K.
What Honda is trying for with the TSX, is the same deal as they have with the MDX: they want to sell as many as they can build, with no discount. The plan is, build a really good car, price it lower than the competition, limit the availability, and oh by the way beat the Accord sedan with the ugly stick. A couple of the dealers on clubTSX.com have already sold their entire allocation for the next two months. This is going to turn into a stampede.
You understand, I am not talking about how good the car really is. We will all form our own opinions about that. I am talking about how successful it will be in the marketplace.
the first two i can swallow, but the intrigue with better handling?
Later...AH
About the Navigation system, did you read the manual before trying it out ? I am pretty certain you did not. All of these gadgets have a learning curve and you simply cannot plop into a car and take it for a quick test run and make judgements on how a relatively complex Navigation system operates. I have an earlier version of the Acura NAV in my current TL (without the Voice Activated technology) and I simply will not buy another car without it. I have not reached this conclusion with just a quick spin...my take is based on using the Navigation system for tens of thousands of miles in all sorts of conditions, including thick blinding fog, pitch darkness in completely strange areas etc. JMHO. I have driven other Navigation system equipped vehicles like the Hertz rental "Neverlost" system....which in my estimation is an expensive piece of junk. Again, JMHO. There is absolutely no distraction while using the NAV....at most it is similar to darting quick glances into the rearview mirror. As an aside, I never use a cellphone while driving, since it is definitely distracting.
Later...AH
Granted the interior is super nice and the shape is best of all Acura models, i still don't see how anyone would spend THAT much $$$$ and get a generic 4-cylinder engine??? Anything in that price range MUST have a 6-cylinder! It does NOT fit the bill as the "four-door" version of the RSX because it is too big and costs too much.
Why didn't Honda put in Accord's V6 engine?? Now, THAT would make it in better company with BMW 325, Infiniti G35, and Lexus IS300...all about the same size and similar driving purpose. In my view, the Acura TL has always been more of a Lexus ES300 fighter because of it's size and similar driving dynamics. With the V6 in TSX, THAT would make more sense in buying it over the V6 Honda Accord.
Screw the handling...EVERYONE needs power, especially if you're buying a sports car. And the TSX is one of those, right?? Or supposed to be one. Handling is great, but no one is going to truly take the TSX seriously with a 2.4L 4-cylinder that can be found in a base Accord or CRV. Just remember that Lexus IS300 has been criticized by many for having ONLY 215 HP (and a healthy 218 Torque) from it's in-line 6-cylinder engine...it is relatively slow nowadays. Ok...now you have the TSX with barely 200 HP and less than 170 torque??????????
Does the Audi A4 come in 4-cylinder anymore?? If so, then i guess the Audi is TSX only competitor.
Don't understand this one.