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Acura TSX

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Comments

  • 04tsxpdx04tsxpdx Member Posts: 6
    IMO there is no comparison. Bought my wife a TSX (6spd) last July after checking out other products. Passat was by far one of the worst vehicles I drove. VW has completely softened that car to the point where it may as well be an old Buick LeSabre. The TSX is more of a value compteitor to A4/325i. Passat=Camry and a Camry will last a lot longer and cost less.
  • venus537venus537 Member Posts: 1,443
    Passat=Camry

     

    you're hitting below the belt with that comparison. say it ain't so.
  • lmacmillmacmil Member Posts: 1,758
    How does the TSX compare to the Passat power-wise? I've driven a 1999 auto Passat on a couple of 400 mile trips (it's a company car.) I like the ride and handling but thought it was a little low on power. Have only tested an auto TSX which wasn't that great either. Hoping the 6 speed will be better.
  • venus537venus537 Member Posts: 1,443
    the 6 speed properly takes advantage of the i4 power band. i think you'll find the tsx much more satisfying with the manual.
  • 04tsxpdx04tsxpdx Member Posts: 6
    I don't have the exact numbers on the Passat, but I will make a few observations based on the feel of each car. As mentioned, I own a 6MT TSX. I did not even drive the AT, as I assumed it would be a disappointment. I shopped it against BMW 3, Acura TL, and Passat b/c VW was giving them away last summer. Observations:

     

    -BMW--great cars...my first car was a 2002. Nothing bad that you can say about them, but the "status" thing wasn't worth the extra $7-10k for a comparably equipped car.

     

    -TL--Way too much HP for a front driver. Not really even that fun to get on due to massive torque steer.

     

    Passat--Drove every model in the lineup. Not one felt as tight as the TSX or BMW. I was close to pulling the trigger on a fully loaded GLX 4motion Wagon because the dealer basically wanted to give it to me (3k below invoice + 60mo. 0%). The interior was nice and funky/hip, but that did not make up for the rather soft ride of the car. VW made a huge mistake by losing the VR6 in the Passat. Also, I must admit that I am extremely skeptical of VW reliability, having owned a few in the past. Perhaps in the past I would have traded reliability for that VW soul, but it seems that they have engineered the feel out of the Passat altogether.

     

    Regarding power in general-- Numbers on paper are nice, but to me it is the feeling you are looking for. You will never know that the TSX is .2 or .4 sec slower than a 325 0-60 unless you look at the stat somewhere. I am personally not one for overkill...there is obviously a point of diminishing returns as is evidenced by the TL. Plain and simple the TSX 6MT is a blast to drive and a heck of a value. The car is nimble. I have had no problems with the low-end. Just rev the damn engine. That's what Honda built it and geared it for and it works well.
  • 04tsxpdx04tsxpdx Member Posts: 6
    i think it may be so....sorry venus
  • lmacmillmacmil Member Posts: 1,758
    Thanks for the thorough descriptions. My first car was a BMW 1600 so I've been down that route and agree the 3-series is not worth the premium over the competition.

     

    I'm pretty much down to a choice of the TSX or a G35 sedan. Would go with the manual TSX or auto G35. Haven't been shifting for 4 years and not sure if I want to go back. Decisions, decisions...
  • indydriverindydriver Member Posts: 620
    Great testimonial. As you surf the various enthusiasts boards, you sense a very high level of enthusiasm from nearly all TSX owners. 04tsxpdx puts it well..."plain and simple the TSX 6MT is a blast to drive". And sometimes, stats don't reveal that. Cars that have all the stats, don't necessarily have the "fun to drive" equation right. The TSX manual is no question a great choice for the sporting driver who likes rowing the gearbox and hustling through the twisties.
  • venus537venus537 Member Posts: 1,443
    why are you saying you're sorry to me!? i reiterated your opinion.
  • cacevedocacevedo Member Posts: 5
    Thanks to all who contributed to this topic. I purchased the TSX two days ago and have a hard time getting out of the car. Although I got he TSX 5AT, the Sequential SportShift brings the engine to life. I haven't driven manual in a very long time so this was a worthy compromise.
    A great car for the money, and a lot more fun to drive than the Passat.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    Thanks again for the correspondance, but it looks like you'll be representing Indianapolis alone for a while longer.

    I'm staying in Seattle.
  • fredvhfredvh Member Posts: 857
    Congratulations! What other cars did you compare the TSX too? How did you find the ride of the TSX? Some have said it is hard because of the low-profile 17" tires. Did you find it "harder" than the other cars you compared it to?
  • cacevedocacevedo Member Posts: 5
    Compared to 05 Passat GLS, 05 Honda Accord EX. I found the TSX to be "very firm", but that's a personal preference because I like to drive hard and fast. The Passat is a bit softer and larger but a decent ride. Reliability issues pushed me to Acura. The Accord had the softest ride of the three, almost too soft that I couldn't feel the road.
  • uncledaviduncledavid Member Posts: 548
    I looked seriously at a Passat V6 myself, and didn't buy it primarily because I was worried about VW reliability. I went with the TSX instead. I've come to love the TSX, so no regrets here.

    IMO, the Passat handles nearly as well as the TSX (I think the Passat is getting a bum rap in the above posts). In fact, in some ways, it handles better (doesn't get as upset easily in the bumpy corners). It rides a LOT better, has more room, better brakes, and some lux features the TSX does not (like power folding mirrors). The styling is a little dated, but that is a relatively minor issue.

    I'll probably get toasted for saying this, but I think the Passat is a better all around vehicle than either the Acura TSX or the Accord. I just don't trust the reliability of the VW at all. I also badly wanted a car that came with a top notch NAV system.

    I love my TSX to death. Can't wait to get into every morning, But, I think the Passat would be a fine alternative choice.
  • fredvhfredvh Member Posts: 857
    Thanks for your comparison of the TSX with the Passat. Now, what do you think of the TSX compared to the Accord, or did you not drive the Accord?
  • meaturemeature Member Posts: 4
    My big mistake....
    I bought a new Honda Accord 1 month ago. I got the 4 cyl 5 speed, EX-L silver with black leather interior, spoiler, and mud flaps.

    Big mistake, I'm OK with with the 4 cyl and 5 speed--but I am not happy with how the car handles. A car is something you use every day and if you love to drive you want something that is fun!!! Quite simply the car is not fun to drive. I tested lots of cars and really loved the TSX and Mazda 6s w/ 5 speed.
    But somehow ended with the Accord--I can't say anything bad about the Accord, it is a great car but it is not the right car for me--just too disconnected from the road and cornering.

    So I offer this up as caution, if it is not a real financial hardship, get the car you want even if means spending a few thousand more!

    Any comments on what I should do? When should I take my bath, hold on to the Accord for 1-3 years and then move to something else. Alternatively take a financial hit now, I have no idea how big a hit it would be I'm sure it would be significant, and get the TSX or Mazda6. UGH...
  • johnny420johnny420 Member Posts: 473
    Question: If you liked the TSX and Mazda6 so much, how'd you end up with an Accord? Not busting your chops here, but, for a driving enthusiast, either car would have been a fine choice.

    That said, I think you'd really take it in the shorts financially if you sold or traded the Accord now, but if you don't think you can live with the car for a few years you may as well go ahead and do it.

    If it helps, after a year of ownership I can attest to the TSX's excellence. I drive a company vehicle, and come Friday I'm champing at the bit to drive the TSX. Literally. It has a few niggling issues, but so has every car I've ever owned. Mechanically it's been rock solid, and its driving dynamics are better than any other car I've had.

    Good luck with the decision.

    Johnny
  • meaturemeature Member Posts: 4
    Yeah, doesn't make much sense. I think I was influenced by the Honda's reliability, versatility, fuel economy, engine, and price. Not bad reasons but it is missing that one huge factor driving fun. Hard lesson--bad decision in terms what I really want. I think your right I'll probably just stick with it for a year or two and then change. The Honda is a very nice driving car but lacking for an aspiring enthusiast.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    You may not have a TSX, but a few inexpensive mods can dramatically improve your Accord's performance.

    Here's what I'd do with only $600 (in order of importance):

    Upgrade the tires: the 215/55-16 Kumho Ecsta Supra 712 (less than $70 ea. at Tire Rack) is a great, inexpensive tire.

    Install Comptech rear sway bar ($100) to significantly reduce understeer.

    Install Injen CAI ($200) to improve hp at high RPM, and give more aggressive sound at wide open throttle.

    These three mods alone will change your Accord's attitude, and noticeably boost power and handling.
  • venus537venus537 Member Posts: 1,443
    what do you mean by power folding mirrors?

    the TSX's mirrors do fold and are powered. are you saying the passat's mirrors "fold" under power?

    i don't see how a passat comes close to the handling of the tsx, it's more comparable to a domestic accord.

    i can easily see the argument that the passat is a better overall vehicle. not so easy with the accord though.
  • venus537venus537 Member Posts: 1,443
    you would get an argument from the camry folks on the accord's soft ride. according to them the accord is the roughest riding vehicle that has ever hit our roads!
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    I posted this on a popular TSX enthusiast site. I thought folks might enjoy it here too:

    First, a little background for those that need it...

    My 6 MT tranny started making a howling noise on pedal take-up, so, after my dealer diagnosed a bad throw-out bearing, I'm having a new one installed under warranty within the next week or so.

    After I received the diagnosis, I asked the dealer about the possibility of installing a Comptech lightweight flywheel as long as the tranny was going to be open. My service rep quoted me $330 for the flywheel, and free installation since the tranny wouldbe open anyways. I told him to go for it.

    While waiting for the flywheel to arrive, I contacted JTso (another TSX owner/enthusiast who lives near me) about meeting up and doing some before and after testing to gauge the flywheel's effect on acceleration. JTso has a G-Tech and OBD II performance measuring software for his IPaq, so we agreed to meet this morning to make some baseline (pre-flywheel) runs.

    PHASE I: Baseline data:

    My car: 2004 Acura TSX 6-speed, no nav. Original wheels and tires, no mods whatsoever. Full tank of gas.

    Weather: Dry, 50 degrees Farenheit. 200' above sea level.

    0-60: Number of runs - 10
    Best time - 7.37 secs
    Worst time - 7.74 secs
    Average time - 7.65 secs

    1/4 mile: Number of runs - 3
    1st run - 16.05 secs @ 92.3 MPH
    2nd run - 16.20 secs @ 91.0 MPH
    3rd run - 16.0 secs @ 90.3 MPH
    Average - 16.08 secs @ 91.2 MPH

    Now, for comparison, we also ran JTso's beautiful TSX through the 0-60 gauntlet.

    JTso's car: 2004 Acura TSX 6-speed, no nav. 2005 TL factory 17" wheels and 235/45-17 Yokohama ES100 tires. Eibach springs and Koni yellow shocks, Comptech strut tower brace and rear sway bar, Hondata gasket, K&N CAI, DC Sports header, Neuspeed short shift kit. Mostly full tank of gas

    0-60: Number of runs - 6
    Best time - 7.03 secs
    Worst time - 7.74 secs

    As a control measure (and for the fun of it), I also did 4 runs in JTso's car, with the following results: 7.37, 7.03, 7.03, 7.03 (practice makes perfect). Overall average for JTso's TSX is - 7.31 secs.

    Conclusions?

    Well, we both agree that JTso's mods have improved both the performance and aesthetics of the TSX. His car is consistently 0.3 secs faster than mine to 60 MPH, and it has an aggressive sound under WOT.

    My opinion is that JTso's engine mods account for half of the straight-line acceleration gain, and the suspension mods account for the other half. I say this because under hard acceleration, JTso's car's rear end squats much less than mine, which when combined with superior summer compound tires, improves front tire traction and allows harder starts without as much feathering of the throttle.

    By comparison, my stock TSX feels soft and wallowy - it lacks the hunkered-down feeling that JTso's car has. I also drove JTso's car on some familiar roads in my neighborhood, and found it to corner flatter, grip better, and push less in corners, yet it still rides acceptably well - in other words, JTso's TSX still feels like a "near-luxury" car.

    Stand by for the PHASE II in the coming week (or two)!
  • uncledaviduncledavid Member Posts: 548
    Yes, the mirrors on the Passat fold under power. So, if you are going down a tight alley (which actually happens quite a bit out here in LA), you just push a button and they fold. The Nissan Maxima has a similar feature.

    I agree that the Passat does not handle as well as the TSX, but I don't really think the difference is as great as you suggest. And, in terms of handling, it does do SOME things better than the TSX (namely it holds the road better in bumpy turns).
  • uncledaviduncledavid Member Posts: 548
    Yeah, I drove the Accord - about 10 times. I also owned two Accords prior to the TSX.

    The Accord seemed kind of boring to me. I didn't like the handling, and there were some aspects of the interior that turned me off (basically, very similar to the TSX, but seems like the dashboard has lots of unattractive joints on it). The ride was a lot more comfortable than the TSX though, and there was more room. I could not fit in the coupe at all, and I HATE the way the sedan looks.

    I personally think the Accord is a much better value than the TSX. You get more room, an available V6, and a better ride for less money. And, I personally don't think the Accord's 160 HP engine is any less response than the TSX's 200 HP engine.

    Why didn't I buy an Accord? Because it stinks to make car payments on a vehicle that bores you. I feel passionate about the TSX. I love driving it. I love looking at it. When I go to pick up my date, I feel proud of my car. I would never have felt like that about the Accord. So, for me, the "value" in this equation is that I spent a lot of money on something that I really, really enjoy. Getting in my TSX is always fun, and I never felt like that about my Accords.

    But, YMMV. If you're happy with the Accord's looks and handling, I think it can be a fine option.
  • venus537venus537 Member Posts: 1,443
    I think I like the accord more than you (especially the interior) but i'm looking at something with more excitement for my next car. the audi a3 is now my top contender.
  • indydriverindydriver Member Posts: 620
    No problem. Sorry for the delay. Edmunds was really screwed up for a while the last few days. I could not get into the forums. Must be another "Inside Line" "upgrade". Now, maybe some Honda/Acura loyalist can help me find a tuner here in Indy.
  • lmacmillmacmil Member Posts: 1,758
    Big discussion about the problems getting into the forums here. I was having the same problem. Need to access via Inside Line rather than Edmunds.com

    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef4ea38
  • indydriverindydriver Member Posts: 620
    You sound like you've made your decision and I certainly wouldn't disuade you from upgrading to a TSX but, in your defense, I'll share my driving impressions from testing your car vs the 6 cyl Accord EX-L. If you drive these two cars aggressively back-to-back, you'll discover something that helps you appreciate the TSX. Four cylinder Hondas (Acuras) handle much differently than six cylinder Hondas. The difference in balance is noticeable. The front suspension on the fours has more travel and is more compliant. I really enjoyed my test drive the four EX-L and preferred it over the V-6. The TSX just gives more of everthing: more power, more handling, more interior amenities and (unfortunately) more weight. Fedlawman gives you great advice on improving your Accord. Unless you are dead certain you can't live without a TSX and you can afford the bath you'll take on the trade-in, give those mods a try. You'll be pleased.
  • indydriverindydriver Member Posts: 620
    Great advise to any Honda/Acura owner. I've never done a CAI. What do you think about the complexity of the DIY installation and the scare stories you read about water intake?
  • indydriverindydriver Member Posts: 620
    Great stuff, Fedlawman. Can't wait to read part 2. BTW, JTso spent a ton of money for those three tenths. Not worth it IMHO.
  • meaturemeature Member Posts: 4
    Fedlawman and Indydriver--thanks so much for the great posts. It's funny, I did drive the Accord V6 EX and did not like it for the exact reasons you said, very noticeable difference in handeling, it's like the engine is too heavy on the front end or something--(I'm not that knowledgeable on cars). Also, of great importance, the V6 was not available in MTX unless you got coupe.

    Do you guys really think those mods will make a difference? Also, for the sway bar and injen, can I have someone do the work? I am not capable of doing it myself and to be honest, I don't want to at this juncture. I live in Charlotte NC, there is a local shop that specializes in Honda and Acura, maybe they can do it or point me to someone else.

    What about lighter weight alloys, will that make a noticeable difference?

    My biggest problem with the car is the disconnect from the road and the average handling, wish I could power into a curve with a little less roll.

    Fedlaw, I really like your comments and advice for some low cost mods. Would the injen violate warranty? Anything else with a big bang for buck?

    Finally, are there any good Honda forums out there--I've been to few but I thought they were just OK--I'm sure there are better. I have been to several good Mazda forums such as Mazda6club and Mazdaworld.

    If I were to change now it would be a Mazda6s w/ MTX over the TSX for financial reasons--there are some good deals on the 6 and it really is fun and handel great. But overall I am leaning to keeping the Accord for a while.
  • carfreak189carfreak189 Member Posts: 31
    What is 0-60 with the auto tranny and does this car get good pickup?
  • lmacmillmacmil Member Posts: 1,758
    0-60 isn't really meaningful in everyday driving. What is meaningful is passing power, e.g., 30-50 or 50-70. That's where the auto TSX will disappoint, especially if you are currently driving a V6. You really have to test drive it and decide for yourself.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    I'm sure you can find other Honda forums with Google, but be aware that the Membership Agreement does not allow us to send folks to other automotive message boards. You can check it out using the link on the left, but for an easier read, try the link to our "Rules of the Road" at the top of the page. :)
  • ponytrekkerponytrekker Member Posts: 314
    Either way you are going to take a financial hit. I would try to sell the car privately. People are always looking to buy Accords.
  • uncledaviduncledavid Member Posts: 548
    Better tires and lighter wheels will almost certainly improve the handling of your car.

    Doesn't Honda have some kind of aftermarket package for the Accord? I'm pretty sure that they have something for the coupe, don't know about the sedan.
  • uncledaviduncledavid Member Posts: 548
    I completely disagree. In fact, I'd say that passing performance of the AUTO TSX is pretty good. The TSX has plenty of horsepower (200 HP) and actually moves well once it gets moving. The real issue with power in the TSX is torque and traction at launch. I think you'll find that the TSX is a little slow off the line, but power is readily available at highway speeds.
  • lmacmillmacmil Member Posts: 1,758
    All I can say is during my brief test drive, when I punched it at about 35-40 mph, I was completely underwhelmed. You don't see 200 hp until you are at 6800 rpm. At 3000 rpm, the engine is putting out 90 hp (per the curve in the TSX brochure.) We'll agree to disagree on this point.
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Member Posts: 3,387
    It's torque that moves the car. At 3000 rpm it's putting out nearly as much as it does at peak.

    But then again, you aren't paying for only hp in the TSX. It's a pretty nicely loaded car. Even if it's not fast enough for you, it's not a slug. Go buy a Neon SR-T and have no power windows for the rear passengers. Or the new 268hp C350 Benz for nearly $40K.
  • lmacmillmacmil Member Posts: 1,758
    "It's torque that moves the car. At 3000 rpm it's putting out nearly as much as it does at peak."

    And that's the only "problem" with the TSX: it's peak torque (166 lb-ft) is pretty low for a 3200# car. My 3400# Olds puts out 230 lb-ft and that's why I'm hesitating although I think the manual tranny (haven't driven a manual yet) would compensate somewhat. For me, the automatic wouldn't cut it.
  • uncledaviduncledavid Member Posts: 548
    With all due respect, there isn't that much that you can determine in a brief test drive. I have 25,000 miles on my TSX. I drive it on the highway every day, and it has plenty of power in passing situations. In fact, if you look at the actual numbers (the few sources that show passing times, like the sports sedan comparo in Automobile) the TSX is actually competitive with V6 powered vehicles.

    Right off the line is another issue. I personally feel that that there are a lot of traction issues at launch. And, I think that shows in the 0-60 times.

    But, again, if you are really worried about high power, don't get a TSX. Sheer power is not what that vehicle is about.
  • uncledaviduncledavid Member Posts: 548
    I think the statement that "torque" moves the car is a bit of an oversimplification. There are all kinds of issues, like the shape of the torque curve, horsepower, aerodynamics, the transmission.

    At the end of the day, the TSX is certainly not a "fast" car. But, it is very peppy around town, and does great at highway speeds.

    Power is NEVER an issue for me in this car. I do think there are other downsides (like the stiff ride, and the average brakes). But, I actually see the drivetrain as a strength.
  • lmacmillmacmil Member Posts: 1,758
    "With all due respect, there isn't that much that you can determine in a brief test drive."

    I'll give you that :-) Actually your comment about the stiff ride gives me as much pause as the power issue. I've gotten used to a pretty relaxed ride and kind of enjoy it. The car mags don't talk about the ride being stiff but CR did. Do you find the large turning radius an issue?

    Another thing that appeals to me about the TSX is the size. I'm driving a "boat" currently and although I like the ride and power, I'll be more comfortable in something 8-12" shorter and a couple inches narrower.

    The nearest Acura dealer is 100 miles away (actually about 5 within that radius) so I can't just pop in for another test drive and there aren't many manuals around either.
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    The CAI isn't for everyone. At wide open throttle, it is pretty loud (although you can't hear it under part throttle or cruise). It fills the cabin will a howl that would startle a banshee. From the outside, it sounds like an aftermarket muffler (though in a nice, low-pitched way).

    Installation shouldn't be too tough, although I would seek out a pro if you don't have 'car-nut' buddies to help you out.

    As to the warranty, I don't think it would be a problem, unless your engine ingests water - then Honda would give you a hard time. The only time a CAI might ingest water is if the filter is submerged, which would require driving through a very deep puddle (higher than the door sills).

    Personally, I don't think the CAI is right for everyone. I probably won't get one for my TSX, because I don't want the added noise (it detracts from the luxury character of the car, and I know my wife would protest) and filter maintenance. On the other hand, if I owned an Accord and was looking to add some performance and attitude, it would top my list.

    Good luck!
  • uncledaviduncledavid Member Posts: 548
    I may be in the minority on this, but I do think the ride is pretty stiff. You can definitely feel bumps around down, and the car can throw off course in bumpy turns. I also think it is a bit nervous on wavy highway pavement. Doesn't ruin the fun for me, and I still love the car. But, it is definitely not a soft lux cruiser kind of ride.

    I've read every car test available for the TSX. Some sources (such as C & D) just seem in love with the vehicle and I don't find their comments to be all that accurate. But, I thought CR completely nailed all the strengths and weaknesses of the car. I found their evaluation to be very accurate. So, I'd take a look and see if that answers any questions you have.

    The turning circle has been a non-issue to me. I find the car very easy to maneuver around town.
  • carfreak189carfreak189 Member Posts: 31
    Thank you very much for the responses. Im still confused since some say its fast others say its not. The current car is a 2000 Chevrolet Malibu, 6 cylinder 170 horsepower 190 torque. The malibu can do 30-50 50-70 pretty good and it can go over 100 easily. How will TSX perform next to this Malibu we are looking for a car which is faster in the key situations or at least on par to the malibu.
  • lmacmillmacmil Member Posts: 1,758
    I've got every road test available on the TSX including CR. Have read them each multiple times. I really just need another, longer test drive to help me make up my mind. Thanks for your comments.
  • uncledaviduncledavid Member Posts: 548
    Anybody who tells you the TSX is "fast" is not being honest. It is a bit underpowered for its sports sedan mission. By this I mean that it will not offer the kind of knock-you-back-in-seat peformance of something like the G35. Instead, it will offer you peppy acceleration around town, and decent pull on the highway. It is not sportscar fast, but the power if more than acceptable.

    Compared to the Malibu, the TSX will probably be a bit faster, with a more optimized transmission sticker tires, and more horsepower. I think you'll find the engine to be a bit more peaky (you have to rev it to get max power). But, you're definitely not going to be taking a step down in power and driveability.
  • uncledaviduncledavid Member Posts: 548
    Good luck, Lmacmil. Sounds like you are being very careful, and you're obviously an informed guy. So, whether you end up with a TSX or something else, I'm sure you'll make a good choice for your needs.
  • carfreak189carfreak189 Member Posts: 31
    This has been helpful. Other cars we are considering are volvo s40 T5 mazda 6 and buick lacrosse CXs. all the cars are auto trans.
This discussion has been closed.