I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

logic1

No, not by much. I think at the end of the '03 it was by about 2,200 or so. I do not know where there is regional sales breakdown data available to the public. Most likely the data exists somewhere.

dGraves: It could have been a 745Li. I saw it on the Kennedy Expressway and did not get the chance to notice the badge. But the one I saw had chrome around the windows and chrome extending along the creases outlining the trunk and hood. I can not see how it would be profitable for a manufacturer to do that, so I assume this person went to one of the aftermarket places here in the city.

Mr_Shiftright

No, something's wrong with that GTO, definitely. Might be a clone, who knows?

rollie

Nope, it comes on certain trim lines of the 745 straight from the factory. I first spotted looking down on a parking lot last year and realized the car an inordinate amount of chrome especially for a Euro sport sedan (I seen it almost daily now here in South Orange County, CA). It's distinctive but I can't say that I like it at all. Oh well, to each is own eh?

Thanks.

-rollie

logic1

Well, at least in the high end, BMW is not leaving anything for granted when it comes to attracting traditional Cadillac buyers.

magnetophone

logic1, they haven't adopted FWD and carriage roofs yet.

logic1

I love the Z4. I am not too keen on the new 7.

I would almost prefer a carriage roof Cadillac over the chrome accented abomination I saw on Saturday.

At least the Cadillac carriage roof is after market.

And, in just about a year, Cadillac will have only one FWD. And of course BMW does have the fwd Mini.

argent

The 760Li has the chrome window surrounds, and so even if it's not standard fit, it would be exceedingly easy for a dealer to add it to customer request.

I'd be hard-pressed to say which is the uglier car: the Cadillac CTS or the new BMW 7. Both are pretty hard on the eyes.

This morning's sightings: a Prowler, a late-50s De Soto two-door hardtop, and a Lancia Scorpion. And a Peugot 505 in unusually good shape.

Mr_Shiftright

gold package! gold package!

Peugeot 505 was considered a very handsome car by most people when it first came to the US. It received many flattering comments in the press on the styling, which was rather advanced for the day. I thought it copied generously from the NSU Ro80, which was one of the first modern "aero" sedans produced.

You don't see many in good shape anymore,what with trim parts so hard to find and a resale value about as low as low can get.

argent

I see a number of late-80s Pugs around west Los Angeles. Several of them have diplomatic plates, and I know the French consulate is around here, so I suspect they may be owned by consular staff.

michaellno

Sorry for the delay in my response ....

The Mondeo Estate I saw was not that big .. perhaps a 1/2 size smaller than a Taurus or Sable wagon, I would guess. Seemed tall, though, with the tailights running up and down the D-pillar (a la recent Volvo wagons and the Honda CR-V).

magnetophone

Yep, that's the Mondeo estate alright!

The Peugeot 505 is a very stately car. It's a good size large than the Ro80 I believe...Audi's late 70's cars copied off of this design spectacularly. Was NSU a german company?

argent

NSU was indeed a German company, founded in 1873 as a sewing-machine producer (!) before moving on to bicycles, motorcyles, and eventually automobiles (in 1905). It was named for the Neckar and SUlm rivers, which were near the plant. NSU's most notable achievement was licensing the rights to produce the Wankel rotary engine, offering first a single-rotor Wankel in the 1963 Wankel Spider and then the ground-breaking Ro80 in 1967. In many ways the prototype in form and styling for modern sedans, it had a two-rotor Wankel engine with 115 hp. It was hailed as the Way of the Future, but the Wankel proved to be its Achilles' heel, with rotor-sealing problems, poor fuel economy, and other woes that crippled NSU. They were sold to Volkswagen/Audi in 1969.

The NSU K70, a simplified, more conventional version of the Ro80 with a water-cooled piston engine rather than the rotary, became a VW and the Audi 50. The poor Ro80 was sold through 1977, with a grand total of about 33,000 of them produced, but the days of NSU as a separate entity rather than a VW AG badge quickly came to an end. VW dropped the badge entirely in 1984, but one of their "Audi Heritage" departments is NSU GmbH, and the Audi TT owes its name to past NSU performance cars.

See http://volquardsen.de/html/nsu_ro_80.html for pictures of the Ro80.

andys120

I was hoping someone would post a picture of the Ro80. It's easy to see that the aero styling of modern Audis is derived directly from the Ro80.

natedog1227

I have been reading this post and it brings back memories "or nightmares" of having my mom take me to school in our yellow " I believe it was a Hornet" These threads brought back some memories and I wanted to see if anyone knew of that car and who made it. For some reason I think it was a Dodge?? Oh well any help would be appreciated

a_l_hubcaps

natedog-

The Hornet was an AMC.

A 1976 Hornet Sportabout

-Andrew L

natedog1227

Mr_Shiftright

Can you believe that Gremlins and Pacers might become "collectible" very soon? Seems like we're noticing a slight upward blip in values, and that can only mean that people are seeking them out....I was going to say "again" but I hadn't noticed anyone seeking them out the first time.

a_l_hubcaps

Shiftright-

My brother's girlfriend is trying to buy a Pacer right now, and can't seem to get her hands on one at a reasonable price (by which I mean, under $3000 for a pretty good one, or under $1500 for one with typical rust and wear). I figured a running Pacer would be tough to find, but I also guessed that once she found one, she would be able to pick it up for a 3-digit price. Guess I was wrong on that one.

-Andrew L

wonderwall

there's a guy in my old neighborhood that had two pristine peugeot 505s, a late 1980s alfa romeo milano, & an early 1980s SAAB 900. i talked to him once and he said the mrs. used the SAAB (i guess she was the conventional one) and one of the peugeot was his daily driver and the other peugeot he kept on hand for parts. he said the 505 was actually bullet proof as far as reliability goes. he said the alfa was more trouble than it was worth, but couldn't bare to part with it.

dave000k

I saw a car today, a Chrysler product, with a phony convertible roof. It actually had a sun roof, but the top was made to look like it was a convertible. I couldn't catch the model name. I have never seen this before. Was it stock or after market? Does anyone know what I am trying to describe? I didn't care for it.

argent

Many cars have padded vinyl tops to look like convertibles. This dates way back to the 1930s, when some closed luxury sedans offered leather roof sections so they'd look like landaus with the top up. The padded top persisted as a factory option on various conservative domestic cars (including the K car-based Chrysler New Yorker/Imperial, which is likely what you saw) through the early 90s. It's been banished from factory lists, but a lot of dealers will do this the same way they do gold packages. I see late-model Sevilles, Eldorados, and Lincoln Continentals with that sort of aftermarket kit relatively frequently.

Mr_Shiftright

They remind me of 70s bar stools ( and I should know).

Boy, a Peugeot 505, an Alfa Milano and a Saab 900--now that's a man with courage!

Actually, I know his game---a bargain hunter, as all those cars are dirt dirt cheap and fairly fun to drive, when they drive. You could buy all three of those cars in fabulous shape for about $8,000 tops.

andre1969

...have actually had a bit of a following for quite some time now. They've always had a nerdy, quirky charm about them...something that makes you smile when you see one (Heck, I'd drive one, and I don't even consider myself a nerd ;-) Once "Wayne's World" came out though, I think they started becoming really popular.

Every once in awhile, I used to see this really nice '69 Dart GT hardtop parked in a driveway. It was a light metallic blue, close to what they used to call "B5 Blue" (I think B5 was just the paint code), but a bit lighter. Real nice car. Well, it disappeared, and in its place was a Gremlin! Same color, and in really good shape, but it kinda makes me wonder WHY??

It almost seems like something that would've happened in the '70's, when the gas crisis hit and a lot of people traded in their cool cars for stuff like the Gremlin, Pinto, Vega, etc.

Who knows? Maybe with the stock market and the recession and all (and hey, gas prices ARE rising again!), this guy figured he'd downgrade from one antique to one that gets better mileage.

hudnut2

The tapered rear axle on the 53 Jet is the same as on the 1988 Eagle with the exception of a zerk fitting on the back side of the housing on the 53, ah progress...Now to stuff a AMC 401 cu in in a Pacer. The Pacer was designed by the factory to have a wankel 2rotor engine!!

stickguy

just got the latest issue of automobile today. the used car classic (or whatever they call it) was on the Dart GT series.

Mr_Shiftright

A Pacer with a wankel engine....now THERE'S a recipe for real disaster! You remember the misery Mazda went through with early Wankels?

Seems what happened is that Herr Doktor Professor Wankel really put one over on Mazda. That engine was nowhere NEAR a durable powerplant.

argent

Mazda's 11A and 13B rotaries were certainly better than the NSU engine, I'll grant 'em that. In the late sixties and early seventies some people really thought the rotary was The Wave of the Future. It should be noted that the rotary engine for which the Pacer was designed was not going to be built by AMC, but purchased...
 
...from General Motors, which came real close to building rotary engines for the Chevy Monza and the Corvette. See http://www.monito.com/wankel/corvette.html for more of the sordid details.

Mr_Shiftright

Good thing they didn't. GM sometimes made good decisions. Those early WAnkels were gas eaters, right at the time of...the '73 Gas Crisis!

argent

The later (80s-vintage) Mazda 13Bs were not bad, all things considered. They were fun, but expensive to feed -- 15-17 mpg and a quart of oil every 1500-2500 miles when it was healthy. That's not any worse than a V-8 F-body, although the character of the Wankel is obviously totally different. Biggest problem is that about 150,000 miles is it for the rotor seals. It's cheaper to replace the engine than repair the seals. That isn't hugely expensive compared to rebuilding a conventional engine (at least in areas like Los Angeles), but it's obviously a pain.

andre1969

...I saw what can only be best described as a cross between a Mini Cooper and a starched-up Renault LeCar. Across the back is said "Renault 5" on one side and "Turbo II" on the other. It was red, and looked like it was in pretty good shape. Interesting, to say the least.

Did these things actually have any guts to them, or were they really just LeCars with the ribs & wings treatment?

michaellno

Oooo, that's a Renault 5 Turbo!

If I'm not mistaken, the engine was transplanted to the rear seat, which makes for decidedly 911 like handling. Fast, however. Plus, the fender flares were really large.

Wonder how that got here? I don't believe they were ever sold in the US.

jrosasmc

The old 13B rotaries really got that terrible gas mileage? That's even worse than the worst Volvo!

checkme

There is a place around here that imports the Renault 5's, along with Cosworth Escorts and some other hot european econoboxes.

Mr_Shiftright

Renault 5 Turbo is a fairly fierce little car, and could hold its own against most modern pocket-rockets, somewhere in the 6 second range 0-60.

There were professionally built rally versions that were pretty awesome in performance, but I doubt that's what you saw on the road.

andys120

and shoe-horned a Yamaha V6 from the SHO (220 hp) into the back seat of that econobox.

jaserb

looked like MB's answer to the original M3 (boy racer body effects). Anybody know anything about these?

-Jason

argent

It was indeed the Mercedes answer to the BMW M3. The M-B 190E 2.5-16 had a DOHC 2.3L four built in 1988 for Mercedes by Cosworth, with 185 hp (later 197 hp). It was an homologation special, with the racers competing in the World Touring Car Championship (WTCC). Ironically, they were beaten by the Ford Sierra Cosworth, and by the four-cylinder M3s. There was a later Evolution II version engineered by AMG, with 235 hp in road-going spec (373 hp DIN in racing trim). The Evo II was strictly a regulatory exercise for the German Touring Car Championship; only 500 were built.
 
They weren't staggeringly fast -- 0-60 times ranged from a bit under 8 seconds for the early models to maybe 7 seconds for the Evo II -- because they were cammed for high-end power rather than torque. And they looked a bit contrived compared to the BMW, with the body kit and big wing.

ghulet

...had 167hp, fairly powerful at the time, and sold here only in 1986 and '87; the '86 has 'standard' square headlights, the '87 has flush headlights with wipers. Both were available only in Smoke Silver and Black Pearl with black interior. Equipment in addition to that on the 'regular' 190 included an anti-theft alarm, digital quartz stopwatch, special sport leather power seats, hydropneumatic level control, limited slip differential, a 5-speed 'sport' transmission, high performance brakes, voltometer and oil temp gauges, and the aforementioned mild body kit.

Not too many were sold here for a variety of reasons. A 'sporty Mercedes' was a bit of an anomoly back then, and it didn't help that it cost almost $38k (about the same as the larger, more powerful 300E), or that the $6k less costly six-cylinder 190E 2.6 made 158hp. In other words, it wasn't enough car for too much money. I still think they're great looking, but would hate at this point to find all the model-specific parts for this one. Big money pit, I'd say.

andys120

at least here in the states? I also remember a couple of F1 jockeys had them for personal transportation. Back then Benz was heavily favored by F1 jocks, there was less involvement by big car companies.

Mr_Shiftright

The 2.3-16 is actually something of a collectible now, but only the 16, not the regular 2.3, which is moribund, value-wise.

starrow68

A 2003 Bristol in a showroom in London. Very much a mix of retro and new, forget the model name but the blue color was stunning.

Mr_Shiftright

Here's a link to a photo:

http://www.motorcities.com/contents/03A3M151813092.html

A little too kit car for my tastes. Check out the windshield, front running lights and "grillwork".

cuteeric17

When I was in Tampa, Florida this morning, I saw a Yellow Lotus Espirt. Nice looking car.

Say, is any one here from Tampa, Florida? The places seems to be sports car city. I saw my very first "moving" Viper down there.

argent

Living in Los Angeles (and working in Beverly Hills, where BMWs and Mercedes are FAR more common than Fords or Chevrolets) I see exotics and semi-exotics pretty regularly. Lamborghinis and Lotuses are still a rare sight, of course, but Porsche and Ferrari sightings are fairly common. Somebody who works in my building has a black Acura NSX, and someone across the street has an Aston Martin DB7 Volante. Even Vipers are not uncommon (although I've yet to see the new one on the road).

The disheartening thing is that almost without exception they're all driven by fat, balding, middle-aged men (with the exception -- I _think_ -- of the Aston owner, who I believe is a woman), the only people affluent enough to afford such iron. Perhaps the exotic car makers should consider some kind of special program to get their cars in the hands of young, prettier people...otherwise it's going to be harder for their marketing people to maintain their image as sporting cars for the Beautiful People.

dgraves1

With the right plastic surgeon, I could be younger and prettier. Think I might qualify for that program?

carguy58

Sometimes I see those Peujoct 504's(now a defunct brand in the US.) Definately Head Turners.

idletask

On the highway, while I was getting back home and driving at 100mph... It passed me like I was at a dead stop! And I was driving pretty faster than anybody else... I've just had the time to spot the badge on the rear, and the two huge exhausts. License plate was Polish.

cuteeric17

Oh yeah, I saw an RX-7 and a Corvette Z06 for the first time too.

jrosasmc

Speaking of Audis, I saw an old 4000 on the street yesterday. Appeared to be an '86 or '87. Funny, though, because Consumer Guide called the 4000 "durable and reliable" when it fact it was nothing but a glorified VW piece of crap.

magnetophone

Actually, VW's were based on this Audi, not the other way around. The later model 4000's were very durable. Most people don't realize this, but the early 4000's and the later ones are like night and day. I've seen 4000's with 250,000 miles on the clock.