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I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)
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The market works off supply and demand, and since ALL "specialty" cars today are made in pretty big numbers, and since they are more durable than in older days---the supply will be plenty and the demand, even if strong, will be satisfied at much lower prices IMO.
If you look at all the REALLY big buck classics sold today, their production numbers are miniscule compared to what we are producing in 2006. GTO Ferrari--they made what...36 of them?
Some muscle cars, there are only 1 or 2 surviving!!
"Unloved new, unloved old" is a rule of thumb that I've never seen seriously broken (yet).
IMO, the prices they get aren't "the market" for 2 reasons:
1) The eupohria factor (that is, rich drunk guy gets all excited to be standing next to Amy the bidder's assistant, and spends more than he should since he can). I think they said there was a 1/2 billion in lines of credit available. Too much money and too many people = big prices.
2) some (most?) of the iron is really the special stuff. Super rare, or incredibly resotored, or one-off rods, etc. Just because a one of a kind Hemi 'Cuda convertible gets 250K doesn't mean that your slightly rusted 318 coupe is suddenly a 100K car.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
And that's right---these astronomical prices are generally for VERY RARE versions of "common" cars. You'd best know what you're doing before bidding!
But still, a rising tide raises all boats, even if a little....
Now some old Barracuda coupe with a slant six probably wouldn't fetch much, but the high-output models, like the 440 6-pack, Hemi, and probably any convertible variants would most likely fetch a nice sum.
To an extent, the '57 Chevy doesn't exactly break this rule, but it bends it a little. The '57 Chevy was regarded as being somewhat behind the times when it was new, and it was. After all, it was a 3rd year facelift, while just about everything else on the market was brand-new. Ford was popular enough that it outsold Chevy that year, and Plymouth was so popular that it hit 3rd place and had a record sales year that was only broken twice since then. But these days, everybody loves the '57 Chevy, while the Ford is just about forgotten except among "Psycho" buffs, or people who like the Skyliner retractables, and the only reason the '57 Plymouth has any notoriety these days is because of "Christine" (even though she was a '58)
Not too many people remember the early days (20's - 30's), so there isn't anyone left to buy most of that stuff. Plus, you can still theoretically use a 1960s car on today's roads (not that these ultra rare high dollar cars will be driven) a whole lot easier than a 1915 steamer (unless you are Jay Leno).
In 20 years, I bet you see the same stuff that sells today, although I suppose you could also see the new breed of custom "pasta alternative" burners (see generational effect theory above), but not much of the stock stuff, outside of maybe a Viper or Z06. IMHO of course.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I really think this hobby could be in trouble in a few years. We've already seen that the market for a fully restored Model T and the like has decreased, I thought I even heard that 55-57 Bel Airs do not command top dollar anymore. If the muscle car bubble bursts, which it will, you are getting into the dark ages for car production. This is especially true on the American side. They were down on power, looks and small production runs. High on strangling emissions, poor quality (leads to an early trip to the crusher) and high production numbers.
I'm sure if we put our collective heads together we could come up with a few potential winners, but its a real head scratcher to me.
(these are just ballpark figures)
70 Barracuda 318 convertible 18K
70 440 convert 35K
70 440-6 60K
74 Barracuda hardtop 318 $6K
74 cuda hardtop 340 $20K
So you see how prices are tied to engine sizes and rarity.
The "BIG BOYS" ===
1970 Cuda Hardtop HEMI (total made 652) About 125K ??
1970 Cuda convertible HEMI (total made 14) About 400K???
So you take two 1970 models, that even look similar, one a 318 convertible, the other a Hemi, and there's $380,000 difference in value!!
So you can forget about 2006 Corvettes or Vipers bringing this kind of money, for obvious reasons.
Is it wrong of me to find the Ferrari hat guy to be very irritating? Maybe I caught him at odd moments, but he seemed to be very obnoxious and even "jawing" (got to use the sports term for it ;-) with some of the other bidders.
Probably hard to fake a hemi these days (given all the records), but on a smaller scale, there are probably more SS model CHevys running around today then GM originally built (at least for some of the models)!
I don't think I could ever be a "collector" of the rare high $$ stuff (even if I had the cash to do it). I like to drive, and someday will get some type of "muscle" as a toy, but what's the point if you are afraid to take the car cover off and go for a drive?
A nice 340 Dart, 350 Camaro, AAR 'Cuda clone, Early Shelby clone, etc. seems fine to me. Not going to retire on it, but I also wouldn't have to sell the house to buy one!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Nobody lusts after a fartcan Civic. Today's kids do lust after the Integra Type-R and Civic Si that the fartcan represents in their minds. The NSX will be the king of the Honda hill 30 years from now, but even that will pale next to the money that US-legal R32-33-34 Skylines will bring.
I'm sure if we put our collective heads together we could come up with a few potential winners, but its a real head scratcher to me.
We did that a month or three ago, but I forget which topic it was in.
A neighbor died a few years ago and they had an estate auction. He had a 2WD Mazda pickup that was about 4 or 5 years old as I recall. The final selling price on it was within about 5% of what you would pay for a NEW 2WD pickup :confuse:
And judging by the action at the B-J auction, the predisposition to fall victim to "the fever" has little to do with income level...LOL
Maybe it's just me, but it seems more logical to use traditional methods, like Hemmings, to find what you want. That way, you can do simple things like get it inspected, plus the buyer and seller won't have to kick in 8% off the top to the auction house.
That might bug me more than paying 100K for my dream car: having to pay B-J 8K for the privilege of overpaying for the car in the first place!
As a seller, I could see the desire to run it through the auction, even with the fee, hoping to get one of the "fever" cars. Of course, if it hits at the wrong time and you don't get the big bids, you might come out in the hole after fees, etc. (vs. what you could have sold it for privately).
But, since I'm not a buyer or seller, it is great TV, even though my wife can't believe how many hours I will spend watching it!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
And they are generally buying the cars that they could only dreamed of owning when they were teenagers ...
In my days (90-95) it was the Supra Turbo, the RX7, the 300ZX, and the Integra Type R.
I still lust after those cars and alway look out for mint condition examples for sale. Unfortuantely most of them have been molested with ugly body kits, and cheap paint jobs. I'd take an unmolested stock example of those cars any day.
The only modified Hondas, Toyotas or imports that will become collectibles are the ones you see on Import Tuner or Super Street magazine covers that had an impact on the whole aftermarket industry. Any of the Fast and Furious movie cars may also hold well in value.
On the other hand we may be in for some dark ages as someone said because our generation treats a lot of material things these days as disposable (cell phones, electronics, PCs, prices so cheap, new technology every 6 months).
Same things with cars available thru short term leases that people may not have time to get attached to, as they did in the past.
Anyways you'll see me at Barrett Jackson in 20 years bidding on a Supra Turbo, RX7, or even a mint 1994 6 speed Acura Legend coupe.
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
2016 Audi A7 3.0T S Line, 2021 Subaru WRX
I think one thing the 50's, 60's, and 70's will always have is that the cars are simply more like today's cars and have a sort of familiarity to them. For instance, you could probably put a teenager in a '57 Chevy (the pushbutton on a '57 Mopar might be confusing though) and chances are they'd be able to figure it out. The big steering wheel, over-boosted steering, touchy power brakes, and wallowy handling might throw them a bit, but it wouldn't be like trying to drive a Model A or something!
Also, cars from the 50's, 60's, and 70's are still cars that , for the most part, have no trouble keeping up with modern traffic, so they're at least useable in a modern sense. You might have to pump the gas pedal a couple times in the morning and let it warm up a bit more, and maybe get used to a shift lever on the column instead of the console, but otherwise they're not that different.
I also think that cars of the 50's, 60's, and 70's will be able to hold up their mystique and allure for longer than the 20's-40's did. Cars and nostalgia are a much bigger part of our culture these days, and a big part of that was attributable to the 50's. The only thing 20's-40's cars were good for at that time was to use as a shell to drop in a Ford or Chevy smallblock or a Mopar Hemi.
I'm hanging onto my 1989 Cadillac Brougham. It would be funny seeing some of us in 2036 trying to outbid each other in the Barrett-Jackson auction on some late 1970s or 1980s car.
"Next is a 1979 Chrysler New Yorker Fifth Avenue edition. Do I hear $100K? $110K! Do I hear $115K?..."
The Legend...I don't know
Now that is a scary thought! Oddly though, even if one of them did fetch $115,000 in the year 2036, if inflation averages 4% annually from here on out, that would come out to about what that car cost new in 1979, around $12,000.
What makes 50s 60s and some 70s cars so interesting is the myriad options in equipment and engines. You could build "your own car". But with more modern cars they offer maybe two engines, two transmissions, two trim lines and a few bits and pieces. It's not the same thing. There is no Japanese "hemi" or a car they made only 12 of.
But, on the other hand, high HP cars will always be worth something.
I think we have to start thinking in terms of "tiers" of collectibility---some modern cars might become "collectible" but not at the "top tier" level like a 'Cuda Hemi or a historic street rod or race car. No way IMO.
They'll be more like curiosities in 2036
many years ago, i went to a mustang show. there was a couple there who looked old as dirt, but they were sitting next to their 64-65 mustang coupe that had the original window sticker in a frame.
i bought our gt vert back in '91. had a 1 year old and another on the way. told my wife it's now or never. we have not ever regretted that decision. my oldest is going to be able to drive it this spring. one of those stupid dreams that actually is going to work out.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Wyclef Jean has really good taste in cars. That is the first Zonda I have ever seen that was actually owned by someone. I was starting to wonder if they sold them or just made a couple for testing.
Anyway, slide 8 is of a supposedly stock 1950 Ford, but I don't think so. What nonstock stuff can you guys come up with?
Boy, money and good taste certainly have nothing to do with each other---phew!
Also passed by a house near my office with a large collection of rusty Chevy's, but they were all parked along the curb. usually some are in the driveway, anda couple on the yard. i didn't think they all moved.
The collection includes a '67 Impala (jacked up with oversized cragers), a '70ish 4x4 PU, a '70ish Monte, and a '69ish Chevelle. All with plenty of rust, and in well-worn condition.
Just down the street is a '67ish Bonne convert (looks like Andres), except it is a dark blue, and looks absolutely brand new.
Everytime i drive down that street I feel like I am in a time warp.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
But i have yet to see an EDSL hearse-that would be true horror!
As far as the "true" hearse/ambulance, where they'd actually build it on a stretched-out platform, it looks that type of Edsel would truly be a rare beast. Looks like most of them where what was called "Ambelwagons", where they just took a regular station wagon and made slight mods to it, like giving it an ambulance-style swinging rear door instead of the normal drop-down tailgate, and frost the rear side windows, and do a few other details. The hearse was basically the same, just with all the ambulance lights removed, some curtains put in, casket rollers, and most likely painted in more formal colors.
The website does show one interesting oddity...an ambulance built with a raised roof on a 1958 Corsair 4-door hardtop. Again though, it isn't any longer than the mass-produced passenger cars, although it is taller.
The site also shows a 1959 Edsel ambulance, built on a stretched platform, and raised roof towards the rear.
By and large though, I think most hearses (and ambulances) back then were Cadillacs. Buicks and Oldsmobiles seem much less common, and Imperials, Chryslers, and DeSotos are truly rare. I guess Lincoln hearses were pretty much non-existent since they went unitized in 1958, and would be really difficult to extend the body.
For some reason, Pontiac hearses started to become popular in the 60's, oddly as Pontiac became a more youthful division. I guess plenty of people wanted to take their youth straight to the grave, and what better way to do it than with a Pontiac hearse? :surprise:
http://community.webshots.com/photo/198590853/198593519cfIsHI
today on the way home from work i saw a nice early 70's 2 door dodge dart; maroon, tan top, classic plates.
went to the grocery store and saw a late 60's-70 two door gold with a black top.
my mom had a 74 dart in her buy a new chryco every 10 years phase of life. 64 dart, 74 dart, 84 lebaron, 94 lebaron. in '03 i talked her into a malibu. sebring did not cut it.
And you can get a parts car too
Oddball survivor
Gotta be very rare, too bad its so far gone
This is easy on the eyes
Cheaper than a new Buick
Might be a good deal on a couple of REALLY BIG cars
Needs a bit more work than last week's 61
Now this is Imperial
Could be a worthy project
Nice state of preservation, shame about the price
Also, those look like Firedome door panels. Now maybe the convertibles all used the same inserts to save cost, but if they made a unique insert for the Fireflite hardtop coupe, why not just use them in the convertible, as well? Also, IIRC, Fireflite seats has more of a horizontal ribbed pattern on them. And convertibles in general tended to use more vinyls and less fabric...even on the more upscale models. Back then vinyl wasn't considered the bargain basement material it is today...it was often considered the material of the future...easier to clean, more durable (in theory at least) than fabrics, and available in brighter, airier colors.
But hey, it's a nice car regardless. Also, even though the Chrysler 392 isn't original it would be more powerful than the DeSoto unit (and about 100 lb heavier). Still, an extra 55 hp or so never hurt anybody! BTW, what would a reasonable price be for something like this? If I had a couple extra hundred grand in the bank, I'd actually be tempted!
I like that 1980 Electra Park Ave, but definitely not at that price! Nice color combo. Now I WOULD be tempted by that pair of Fleetwoods, but heck, I don't have the garage space either. And the county won't let me build anything bigger than what I already have, unless I jump through some really painful hoops!
That '63 Imperial's grotesque, but I find as I grow older I like them more and more.
As for the 300-B, isn't the dual-quad setup the one that had 355 hp? Or was the 340 hp version also a dual quad?
And that '61 Bonneville is nice, but Good Lord, that price! :surprise:
Also saw a 1970-71 Ford Torino 4-door hardtop, dark blue, parked at a curb. Paint looked faded, but overall the car looked solid at a quick glance. I think the 4-door hardtops on these are pretty rare, and I believe '70-71 were the only year Ford offered them in the midsize.
I've actually seen this Torino before. Usually there's an '80-81 Gran Fury, in dark green, parked behind it, but it was gone yesterday. Oh well, at least that means the old Plymouth still moves under its own power! Either that or it got towed away!
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
A question for Shifty: Israel had (in the 1960's) a very small produstion of a sportscar called the "Sabra"-I believe it used a Triumph tranny and engine. Are any of these still around? :sick:
Any country you can name has fielded its share of very ugly mutts
SABRA -- I see them pictured in auctions once in a while, but I don't know if anybody actually buys them.
That reminds me...I saw a perfect and I mean perfect 1976 Fleetwood Talisman last Sunday. An 86 year old lady was driving it! I got a chance to talk to her, it has 45,000 miles! She was hoot!! She said she bought it new and
only drove it to church on Sunday! She giggled and added the reason it still looks like new is that she never let her husband drive it! She was really cute! I would hope to be have as active at that age!
I saw a strange one. A 1977 Cadillac Calais? I thought they were discontinued when they were down sized.
IIRC, Oldsmobile picked up the Calais name for a sporty version of their Cutlass Supreme in 1978. It had all the sporty touches, like full gauges, bucket seats, floor shifter, Rally wheels, etc, but if you wanted performance, or what passed for it in '78, you had to get the Hurst, which came with a mighty 160 hp Olds 350.