I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

andre1969

one of my buddies had an '89 Horizon. 2.2/automatic. No a/c, no power steering/brakes...I think it only had an AM radio! Or maybe no radio at all...been so long now that my memory's fuzzing up.

Honesty, I thought it was a miserable little car, but as far as small cars go, it wasn't too bad. Back then, I thought *any* little car was a miserable little car! At that time, I was driving a '69 Dart, and for whatever reason, he challenged me to a drag race. Now my Dart was just a slant six, but I walked him like a dog. I don't know how fast my buddy ever got his Horizon up to, but I backed off at around 90, and then slowed down so he could catch up to me, and then at the light he started cursing me out, calling me a psycho for going that fast!

Then I saw him a few days later, and he said his car wasn't running right! He said ever since he tried to race me, it just didn't seem to act right. Naturally, he tried to blame that on me. I honestly thought that in a drag race, he should've been able to take me. My 225 had about 110 hp (it was 145 gross), while his 2.2 had 96 hp. But then that little Horizon must've weighed about 800 lb or more less, and didn't have a p/s or a/c belt sapping power (I dunno how much power those accessories would really rob, though). Plus, I'm sure it would've been geared quicker than my Dart's 2.76:1.

I think the Neon would be a superior car IF they could keep the reliability up. The Omni/Horizon usually rated worse to much-worse than average, but back then, just about every small domestic car did, so it fit right in. Also, the engines and transmissions usually weren't the problem. It would be electrical-related, or something breaking off, stuff like that.

Today though, the Neon tends to blow head gaskets. It used to have a reliable tranny, because its tranny actually dated back to the OminRizon tranny! But now they have the 4-speed auto, which isn't as durable. That little 4-cylinder may not be too hard on it, though. Unfortunately, it still rates fairly low in reliability. Even a Cavalier is rated "average" by CR.

I think the Neon is a good handling little car, and it's one of the most comfortable little cars on the market...for my body, at least. But they just need to do something about its reliability. And figure out a way to get a power window motor to fit in the rear doors!

a_l_hubcaps

I think the 1995 Neon could have been a huge success if it weren't hampered by poor quality. It had all the elements in place -- good price, distinctive styling that most people liked, a catchy ad campaign ("Hi!") and the whole car seemed like something of a new approach to the compact sedan in comparison to the lookalike boxes of the '80s. However, once word of the head gasket issues and generally poor quality got around, it was too late for the Neon to recover a good image. I think the best thing Dodge could do with the Neon is dump it -- name, styling, head gasket and all, and come up with a totally new compact car. I'm not usually one who urges carmakers to completely scrap designs that might be salvageable, but I think most people consider the Neon to be the current equivalent of the Hyundai Excel, and it's tough to recover from that kind of reputation.

Oh, so I'm supposed to be talking about obscure cars? :-) Well, the other day I saw a MINT 1983? Honda Accord sedan. It really looked absolutely brand new -- I didn't get to see it close enough to determine whether it had been redone and repainted, or if it was really a shiny and rust-free original.

-Andrew L

a_l_hubcaps

By the way, when I say the Dodge compact should get a new name, I do not mean "SX 2.0" as the Neon is now called in Canada. If there is one thing Dodge does not need, it is another confusing alphanumeric designation with "S" in it (SE? ES? SXT? Sport? SRT?). Maybe they could bring back an old name -- Dodge Duster could work, or maybe Colt. Actually I've heard the Neon replacement will be Mitsu based, so Colt would be quite fitting :-)

-Andrew L

andre1969

can anybody identify this thing? http://www.danrapley.com/ItalianBody/ItalianBody.htm
This got brought up on another list, and nobody over there can identify it.

magnetophone

The Colt name has been used to name Mitsubishi's new supermini overseas, so I don't know if that's an appropriate choice.

Maybe they should come up with a new name! or re-use Dart, which i always liked.

ateixeira

All kinds of weird cars overseas. My brother lives in Brazil and just bought a Citroen Xsara Picasso. The thing looks like a big egg with wheels.

It's funny, they're very trendy. You'll see executives driving them around.

-juice

andre1969

Dart might be an appropriate choice. It was the entry-level Dodge for as long as it was on the compact chassis. For 1960-61, it was on a full-sized platform, and for '62 it was on a downsized full-size chassis that unwittingly became one of the first intermediate cars.

In overall size though, a Dart would fall about midway between a Stratus sedan and an Intrepid. Those who remember the Dart or, worse, still own one (like me ;-), would probably balk at the name being put on a new small car.

The old Dart was known for being roomy for its class, comfortable, ultra-reliable, and an intimidating performer with the right engine options (you could get up to a 426 Hemi in 1968, and some of the HO 273 and 340/360 versions offer blistering performance, even by today's standards).

The Neon actually fits most of those categories. It's roomy and comfortable (to me, at least...it and the Toyota Corolla are the only small cars I really feel comfortable in nowadays), and the high-output engines are impressive in their output. Even the base 132 hp engine was pretty awesome when it first came out. Unfortunately, one category where these things are the Anti-Dart is reliability.

If Chrysler can keep what's good about the Neon, and up the reliability/durability of the thing, then they'll have the right to call it "Dart". And hopefully, it'll use the same font that Ford does, so you can still swap the "D" and the "F", just like you could back in the day ;-)

ajvdh

Maybe an Osca (small Italian sports car company started by the Maserati brothers)?

Here's a site that might be helpful:
http://www.carsfromitaly.com/others/index.html

andys120

a Siata, can't tell which model. Tres obscure! It looks a little like a Cunningham from the front but not from behind.

andre1969

AndyS, that's what some of the guys on this other list thought it was at first, a Cunningham. This is a Mopar list, and Cunningham probably came up first because they used to put Mopar engines in them. Here's another round of pics that the guy posted: http://www.danrapley.com/ItalianBody/OldBody.htm

They were also thinking it was some kind of kit-car, because the headlights in the one pic look like they're off a '40 Ford!

magnetophone

juice: the Xsara Picasso is very trendy indeed. Although I think maybe more so in Brazil...Brazilians tend to like those kinds of cars from what I hear. (The Opel Meriva and Ford Fusion are both smaller versions of the MPV-type vehicle and were both developed and I even think built in Brazil.)

The Picasso is a really cool car though, if you can get past the looks (hey, it is a Citroen). I think it's like a top 5 seller in England actually.

logic1

there is a marked preference for vehicles with decent ground clearance. Even fairly close to Sao Paulo and Rio, side roads can quickly become an adventure.

The urban areas themselves have decent roads.

Mr_Shiftright

I sent that link on the strange body to the resident expert know it alls at Fantasy Junction and I'll let you know what they say. If they don't know, it's not a real car.

ateixeira

Yeah, they also sell a lot of Renault Megane Scenics. My bro would have bought one of those were it not for an awful experience with a Renault 19.

Have you seen the Renault Kangoo? Now *that* is seriously ugly.

-juice

kw_carman

Well, if you start reusing the names of awesome cars from the past on newer cars, there is a big chance of a disappoint for many. Look at the Impala now.

Duster? nice...

ateixeira

They sold out the SS label too (FWD? Not a V8?). It cheapens the name when they do that.

-juice

jaserb

A yellow '54 4-dr Hudson Hornet and a gray RX8.

-Jason

andre1969

is a BMW Z-8? I know they're expensive as hell, and I've never seen one in person. One of the gov't guys I support just told me about one of his co-workers in another building, who gave him a ride during lunch in her new Z-8.

Is it something obscure enough that I should walk over to that other building so I can say I saw it? ;-) Sounded like a pretty cool car, but I think I'd be afraid to drive something like that!

logic1

they are lovely cars. For some reason the jet set crowd never warmed to them. BMW is dropping the line. If you walk over and take a look, you may have a remember when story.

ateixeira

They had one at the NY Auto Show, that tuner model with the automatic. They are pretty rare.

-juice

andys120

since most Kit cars are fiberglass but that one appears to be metal. I don't know about the Cunningham either, I think they had bigger grilles.

I'm still thinking OSCA, Siata or some even more obscure Italian car. I hope Shifty's expert comes up w something.

ajvdh

I've sat in one, and the owner promised he'd let me drive it, but the next time I saw it he'd sold it. Absolutely gorgeous, full of really cool designer touches, and incredible fit and finish.

The cars that are in dealers now actually aren't Z8s, they're Alpina Roadster V8s. The main difference is the drivetrain. The Z8 had the 5 liter 400 HP V8 from the M5, and a 6-speed manual. The Alpina has a 4.8 liter 375 HP V8 and a 5-speed automatic. I suspect it would have sold better if it had had that configuration all along.

andre1969

about that BMW, and he said it was a 6-speed. They also had the thing shipped from California. Would that mean it's most likely a leftover '02, then?

He also said that there was a button marked "sport" on the dash, but didn't know what it was. This lady actually made the comment about the car being so fast it was dangerous, and her husband had replied "then you should press the sport button!"

What would that button do, anyway? I'm guessing it changes the suspension settings or something like that?

Mr_Shiftright

Okay, the general consensus of the experts on the "Big Mouth" car, aka the psuedo-Osca, is......

It's a fake. The headlight rims are from a '39 Ford for one thing. DOH!

But they said it did indeed look "Osca-ish" to them, too, but not really, as they probably have owned or brokered Oscas at one time.

ateixeira

Knew we could count on ya Shifty...

-juice

andre1969

I'll let the people on that other board know what you found out! So it the thing just some kind of homemade kit-car body or something, then?

Mr_Shiftright

Well, you know---you never know. But it looks homemade to the experts. Now and then you will find a modified legitimate body, made for a special race, etc., but usually such cars are well known to the trade and hotly pursued.

Also, sadly enough, sometimes people take real cars and butcher them up, so that's also a possibility.

But I think you could safely say this-- that to a whole bunch of people who buy and sell every car known to man throughout the world--they don't recognize the car as anything familiar. And these are people who actually know what a Woodhill Wildfire is.

ajvdh

If it's a 6-speed, it's a left over Z8. The "sport" button changes the response curve for the drive-by-wire throttle. I don't know if "sport" or "normal" gives you a linear response - I've heard that for the M3, the "sport" mode is the linear one, and in normal mode the response is "softened" for the part of pedal travel. Sport mode also allegedly increases the amount of steering feedback, and makes the stability control (DSC) less intrusive.

magnetophone

I've seen several Z8's, but they're still very rare.
About as rare as the BMW 850.

ajvdh

A couple of weeks ago, my wife and I went out to dinner and we saw three 8-series within a couple of minutes. I guess they were having a little get-together.

There's a guy locally who owns an 850csi - aka the M8. They came with a 6-speed manual, a lot more power than the "standard" 850, bigger brakes and a Motorsports tuned suspension. I think only a couple of hundred were imported to the US.

stever

1976 Dodge Aspen w/ vinyl top. Looked exactly like the one in this ad: link

Unbelievable indeed.

Steve, Host

andre1969

I remember seeing one a year or so ago on the lot at CarMax. I've actually toyed with the idea of picking up a used one (back in the "old" days when the stock market and the prosperity seemed like they'd go on forever!). I guess they'd be a money pit when it comes to maintenance/repairs, though? Also, I wonder what insurance would be like on one?

ateixeira

No wonder Honda and Toyota were making inroads during that era.

-juice

andys120

maybe once or twice a year. I have yet to lay eyes on a Z8.

ateixeira

84 Oil. 85 Oil. Strange model names. ;-)

-juice

a_l_hubcaps

"No wonder Honda and Toyota were making inroads during that era."

Hey, I like that Aspen :-) Though you're right -- the Aspen and Volare were known for rust problems and painfully slow acceleration. Overall, the previous Dart and Valiant were probably better cars, though I like the look of the Aspen and Volare better.

-Andrew L

a_l_hubcaps

That reminds me of when my dad pulled up behind a Toyota Camry V6LE and asked why they would name a car after a rodent. The "6" on that badge has a large loop and a small top, so it looked like a Toyota Camry VOLE!

-Andrew L

uga91

I saw a wierd car this morning--called something like a "Honda Accord". Anyone else heard of these?

uga91

vikd

...quite frequently, and it's always driven by a guy named Phil Knight. Not that surprising given that I live only a few miles from the Nike Int. Campus. Gotta repect that dude though; enough money to ALWAYS be driven EVERYWHERE, but instead chooses to drive the Z himself...exactly what I would do. Well, if I had his money of course...

Regards... Vikd

andre1969

that the Volare was introduced, though. While it's true that the '76-77 models had some serious teething problems, enough to make them the most recalled car in history (at least until the Citation bumped them from that spot!), they were probably one of the better compacts of that era. When they first came out in '76, they were a year before GM would start its agressive downsizing campaign. Even though they were marketed as compacts, they could probably be classed as intermediates...they were about as roomy inside as most '76 intermediates, and some dimensions, such as legroom and headroom, would have rivaled some full-sized cars. They could probably be credited as Detroit's first attempt at space-efficiency in the 70's. In fact, even compared to some of what they're trying to pass off as "full-sized" today, like the Impala and Intrepid, and cars like the Accord/Camry/Altima, they still stack up pretty well in terms of interior room and comfort.

They were also some of the better performers of the time, being available with a 360-4bbl right up through the end in 1980. The Roadrunner and Aspen R/T were some of the faster cars of the late 70's. They also made fine police cars. The Michigan State Police clocked a '79 Volare at 0-60 in 8.7 seconds, and 0-100 in 22.8. That's actually faster than the current Impala, Intrepid, and Crown Vic police cruisers clock in at!

Sure, it's easy to poke fun at them today, but then again, look at what they competed against...Nova, Maverick, Granada, Hornet, and later, the Fairmont and, to a lesser degree, the downsized Malibu/LeMans, etc.

fintail

I saw a really clean Ford Fiesta today...hadn't seen one of those for a while.

Mr_Shiftright

That's actually a neat little car, with the crossflow 1600 Kent engine if I recall.

scscars

Andre, thanks for mentioning the police package that Dodge offered in the Aspen. About 20 years ago when I worked for a small city, I was assigned a "retired" '78 Aspen police car as an administrative vehicle.

This car had a well-maintained 360 4-bbl. and was an absolute blast to drive on the highway. It was quick, solid as rocks, very comfortable and had seating that was much better and thicker than the '77 Volare that I owned.

The only thing that this Aspen lacked was a decent radio. It was AM only and the antenna connections were probably loosened when the Motorola police/fire band radio was installed. Being that it was in a "plain white wrapper", it did turn a few heads, as unmarked cars will do.

auerbach

Saw a Morgan Super 8 yesterday - very easy to identify since the license plate said "Super 8".

Then this morning saw what I guess was an early 80's Cadillac maybe a Seville - the one with the humpback or bustle-back trunk. Tan on black, lots of chrome and this rather large flying lady hood ornament - I assume that wasn't stock.

andre1969

hood ornament wasn't stock, but those Sevilles (that generation ran from '80-85) was popular with aftermarket customizers. A lot of them were fitted with large, upright, over-the-top grilles and garish hood ornaments. The standard grille was actually restrained in comparison!

Those fake convertible carriage roofs were also popular items. Oddly, I think the Seville is one of the few cars that they don't look that bad on. With its angular lines and frameless windows, it can almost get away with that look!

auerbach

the look of those early 80 Sevilles. The square front and droopy back just looked bad. If I remember correctly, Cadillac tried to emulate the styling of Rolls-Royce - without much success in my opinion.

I always thought that Ford did a somewhat better job with their similarly-styled Continentals (were they Continentals or Town Cars?)of the time.

andre1969

was probably the '82-87(not sure about that last year) Continental sedan. I really didn't care for that one, but the Mark VII coupe was pretty sharp. It had a somewhat sloped-off rear, but not nearly as abrupt as the Seville.

The sloped-off rear was a popular design fetish in the 70's, although nobody really took it to the extreme that Cadillac did with the '80-85 Seville. The '74-76 Buick Riviera shows a hint of it, especially the way the rear window crease continues down below the beltline, into the rear quarter panel. The '77-79 Mark V also had a pronounced slope in the back, as did just about every personal luxury coupe back then.

I think one of my favorites of that style is actually the '81-83 Imperial! Probably that and the '77-79 Mark V. I'm starting to like the '74-76 Riviera, but for what I admit is a stupid reason...that car ended up in the "Grand Theft Auto" videogame series!

ateixeira

Saw one of those BMW 8 series yesterday. The guy had all the side windows open; I hadn't realized there was no B-pillar! Pretty neat.

Then, this morning, on the drive to work one of the new Maserati coupes drove by. Sweet, high pitched V8 sound, too. He was heading to DC, near Georgetown.

What was really surprising is that is saw a 2nd Maserati, yellow convertible this time, later on the same drive! And those are rare! We were on the Whitehurst Freeway in Georgetown.

If you've seen Kevin Costner's "No Way Out", that's the bridge I'm talking about.

-juice

jaserb

tooling through traffic in Provo, Utah - a bright red Ferrari Enzo. It looked like some alien spacecraft stuck between a bunch of minivans and pickup trucks. Based on the fact that there are only 399 in the world I betcha it was Richard Losee's car from the Road and Track article.

Pics don't do it justice - it really is breathtaking.

-Jason