I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

Mr_Shiftright

some winners, some clunkers in that google search! Nasty looking Imperial, and a motor scooter designed by---a Russian tractor factory? Not my favorite Jaguar either with the grill of a UPS truck, but back end was okay. As for pink Cadillacs, well, what can you say after Mary Kay made them an icon?

That's my fav 'Vette, and the Alfa is simply lovely. Of course we all love British sports cars (don't we? :mad: )

fintail

A few other goodies from 1961:








">

bumpy

. I was actually surprised to find out that it still even had vacuum hoses

The brake booster needs that vacuum, and there are still a few hoses for the valve cover and crankcase ventilation, fuel vapor, etc.

andys120

Any discussion of beautiful cars ca. 1961 has to include one of the most beautiful cars of all time>

Mr_Shiftright

And I think the Jaguar was the first car to be displayed in the Museum of Modern Art in New York.

Gorgeous cars (get rid of those chrome wire wheels though :P ) and they still offer amazing performance on modern roads. A real PITA to restore one, though. Buy one "needy" and you'll be needy soon enough. I can't imagine the fun of lifting a 1,300 lb engine/transmission assembly on a garage cherry picker--and that's just to replace the clutch. Rear brake rotors require dropping the entire rear end suspension sub-assembly and differential.

But maybe worth it after all

lemmer

Your buddy Peter Egan seems to take great joy in restoring those old beasts. Maybe you could buy one "with needs" and let him fix it up for you.

Mr_Shiftright

I suspect one was enough, even for HIM. He bit off a big one that time. An E-Type is no stinkin' little Bugeye Sprite. :P

Just getting that huge flip-up nose cone to line up can take weeks of struggle.

andys120

A buddy of mine had a '67 E-Type/4.2. I drove it a few times and to this day it's the
best, most thrilling car I've ever driven, and the prettiest. He was mechanically adept and did everything including clutch changes and rear brakes in a small attached garage.
:surprise:

It's probably impossible to buy one without needs, if it doesn't have 'em when you buy it, it soon will.

seminole_kev

Shifty, don't think the engine/tranny combo (at least for a XK engine - Don't know about the V12) weighs quite that much. I can tell ya though that with the engine and tranny (this is for my Mk2 sedan, but same mechanicals) the problem with my hoist isn't weight, but garage height. To get the engine/transmission out (straight six, plus transmission that also has the extra length of the hydraulic overdrive unit) my hoist basically touches the ceiling allowing just enough room for me to lift the rear of the assembly up and over the front of the car. It is a lot of mass though dangling scarily from the hoist though.

And yes......darn near every chapter of the manual begins with "first remove the hood, engine and transmission to...." :sick: ......but I love her. What can ya do?

Mr_Shiftright

Not sure of the EXACT weight, but when was the last time you saw a parts vendor post THIS for a Chevy engine removal? (from a vendor who makes 5-speeds for the E-Type)

"Important! The installation of an E Type engine and gearbox (of any type) is a potentially dangerous exercise due to the weight of the components involved."

seminole_kev

I don't think it is so much the weight as it is more the length. It gets a bit unwieldy on an engine stand for example compared to an I4, V6 or V8.

Not sure how accurate, but I did find a list of engine weights (doesn't account for transmissions) but seemed like it might be interesting to some here. It lists the XK engine at around 600 lbs.

some aircraft and automotive engine weights

seminole_kev

Speaking of that, until I typed that all out, I had completely forgot about another inline 6 experience with an engine stand I had awhile back. In my younger days I was working on a Ford 200 ci straight six (no comments, it wasn't a bad motor) and was wheeling it around while it was bolted to an engine stand (cheap, 3 leg model). Well hit a tiny crack/dip in the garage and just that little bit of a change was enough to upset the balance of that long engine. As it went down block edge first, I caught it in time with my thigh (yes, it hurt...and gave me quite the bruise, but I didn't want that sucker crashing to the ground). Wasn't fun.

Mr_Shiftright

Oh the Jaguar is more than that---that must be a short block. I was thinking engine, all or most accessories, and gearbox--it's got to be over 1,000 lbs. I don't think an experienced vendor would publish such a caveat if the combined weight of engine and trans were not extraordinary.

but you're right, I don't know the exact weight as measured by someone. But now I'm very curious.

seminole_kev

Did a little digging around on a Jaguar site I frequent and found several weigh-ins that were around the 600 lb mark for the engine. One person broke down the weight by measuring most of the components. For those that are really bored, here's a cut and paste of his measurements (in pounds):

"bare block 171 (I was expecting much more weight)
crankshaft 62
flywheel 27
pistons & rods 18
oil pan 22
complete cylinder head 65 (includes valves and cams)
two exhaust manifolds 20
intake manifold 9 (manifold only, no carbs)
clutch cover assembly 19
tranny & bellhousing 111
starter motor 20
generator 20
cam covers 6 "

I can testify to the original starters 20 lbs though. That sucker is heavy.

explorerx4

last friday, my daughter was involved in a fender bender accident with the explorer(not her fault thank god).
today the appraiser came by to write up the damage. my wife was working at home and opened up the center garage door for some reason. after he had written up the estimate he called throught the open door to say he had the paperwork finished. my wife entered the garage through the house and he walked in. he started to talk about the report and naturally looked to both sides as he walked in. she said he glanced to the left and right, then whipped back to the left where the mustang was parked(top down and tonneau cover on).
'that car is beautiful. is it a 5.0?' 'yes'.
'plenty of people say they have a mint car, but that is the nicest one i have ever seen'.
too bad it was somewhat obscured by the trash barrels, then he would have how nice it really is. a proud moment for us.

fintail

Compliments from people who know cars are always nice.

That reminds me...my fintail is now at a detail shop as I was having no luck making it as shiny as I want it. I called them today to tell them I should be able to pick it up tomorrow...and the guy said everyone who comes in comments about it and has a look at it, as he parked it in the little showroom area of the shop. That makes me feel somewhat good about the car.

Unfortunately, he said the car didn't shine up to anything like the mirror surface I had imagined...he didn't seem completely happy with the results he was seeing, the paint wasn't cooperating. This is from the owner of a higher end shop that has been there nearly 30 years, and he's been at it forever. I hope he's exaggerating and I'll be pleased tomorrow.

lemko

...silver-blue 1960s Rolls Royce Silver Shadow while I was at the CVS last night with girlfriend's Buick LaCrosse. It going west on Rhawn Street near Dungan Road in NE Philly.. It had the thin chrome bumpers and and a somewhat faded, blotchy paint job. Wonder if some sucker just got it off eBay? I hear these cars can be considered the ultimate white elephant. Pretty poison.

magnette

I've been up and down to Wales a few times over the last couple of weeks sorting out things at my mother's house, and while I was there last week I finally towed the MG Magnette forward in the garage, as a prelude to getting it moving and onto the road - which I have to do this summer - Mum's got to sell the house as she is going into a care home...
Disturbed the various spiders lodging in the car ( not my favourite creatures) and managed to pull the car forward using my Vauxhall Corsa, although helpfully one of the front wheels wouldn't free-off, and I'm now compiling a list of the bits I need to get to put the car back on the road (basically everything from the front to the back).
Top of the list will be a new clutch - and like Jags, the first line of the chapter headed Changing the Clutch reads, "remove power unit". I'm not one for hoists, so I'm going to get a local chap to do that for me.....
Hope to post a couple of pictures of the old girl ( the car, not my Mum) in the next few days....

magnette

As a result of my travels up and down to Wales lately I've seen a few old cars, and I even managed to get to a car show last weekend, although it wa actually rained-of, so only a few cars were there....
Passed a real rarity on the motorway - a British Salmson - I don't recall ever seeing one on the road before, they only made them in the 30's, and there can't be many left...
At the show, a 40's Wolseley 14, a wartime Austin staffcar, even a Russian ZIL truck, ex-Polish army apparently, and a few other old beast, but hopefully I'll post a few pictures on the mystery car site, so I won't detail them here - but today at work I was alongside a Fiat 124 Sport Coupe, the guy driving it said he had restored it a few years ago, and it was a real credit to him - very pretty car....

Mr_Shiftright

I really like Magnettes. I speak MG so I'm not afraid of them. Always wanted to fit one with a Mazda rotary twin turbo. That way I can keep the fragility and uncertainty but freak everyone out at the same time.

No, I probably wouldn't do that to one---but I might put in an MGB drivetrain with overdrive.

andre1969

in the parking lot at work. Belongs to one of my coworkers. He just showed it to me. Kind of a neat little car. Sort of a creamy, antique white, and mostly original and unmolested. He has some Australian brand 16x7" rims on it that actually suit the car very well. Interior's a deep reddish burgundy with the seats re-done in some heavy duty vinyl that's not stock, but do a fairly good job at blending in.

It currently has a 1.8 carbureted engine, but he's talking about putting in some beefed-up 2.0 fuel injected unit.

Mr_Shiftright

Yes, that's common, to put a B20E engine in there, but not with the fuel injection system---you convert the B20E head (has larger valves) to larger SU carburetors, or even Solexes. Works very well. The worst mod is putting Weber carbs on a B18 or B20. Using Volvo's 70s era fuel injection wouldn't be such a great idea either.

Great little cars the 122s, easily the best Volvo ever made IMO, and one of the best cars ever made. Simple, rugged, economical, and with a few mods, fun to drive (well not so much the wagon).

The juiciest 122 is the 123S, a coupe with overdrive and I think even a TACH! That'd be the one to own.

lemmer

what kills the fun in the wagon? weight?

Mr_Shiftright

Yeah, it's a wagon---the tail wags the dog.

andre1969

Honestly, this thing doesn't look like there's much to it. I think my coworker said it only weighs like 2600 lb. I mean, it does have a thick, sturdy feel to it, more like a 50's domestic before they learned how to roll thinner sheetmetal than a 60's car. In fact, if you squint your eyes and get a couple beers in ya, I always thought they looked a bit like tiny '55 Chryslers. The twin grill has that '55 Imperial/C300 thing going on. But it's just so tiny.

I sat inside, and I swear, it was so narrow that if someone sat next to me up front, we'd be rubbing shoulders. Legroom was really tight too, although I could drive it if I really had to.

Still, it's a neat little toy, even if it's not my thing. But hey, variety is the spice of life.

Mr_Shiftright

Well it's Swedish not American. Built for cold winters, narrow roads, expensive gasoline and lots of ruts and potholes. These cars are extremely rugged. I've never seen one with a busted front suspension or a thrown rod.

If you really want to freak out, sit in a P1800 "sports" car. That'll make you love a 122.

andre1969

If you really want to freak out, sit in a P1800 "sports" car. That'll make you love a 122.

No thanks...if they're that bad, I think I'd be more comfy sitting on a Kohler 6.0. :shades:

explorerx4

going red:
the dodge from hell

or going green:

been for sale for a while

put your beer goggles on

whole lotta green

texases

Re: the Dodge - my dad still has his light blue '63 Polara - it's a 4 door, 383. Can't imagine paying that kind of money for one!

Mr_Shiftright

28K? Dream on. Try $15K and hug the ankles of your buyer in deep gratitude.

andre1969

I actually like that Dodge from hell. It seems like Dodge handled that goofball, downsized style much better than Plymouth did. I guess it would lose points though for the non-stock 440 engine. According to my old car book, the Polara 500 came standard with a 305 hp 383-2bbl, had an optional 330 hp 383-4bbl. And at the top of the ladder was a 426 wedge (it wouldn't be Hemi-ized until 1965), putting out 370 hp or 425, depending on the configuration. I imagine a 426 with the cross ram and a 4-speed would probably be worth something.

I love that frosty silvery green on that Lincoln, but really don't care for the contrast green on the interior. It would probably look better in cloth or velour, but with that leather/vinyl combination, it's just too shiny and greasy looking. Still, for $1700, I guess it's not bad.

Wow, the '78 Volares were so bad that they had to be put away after 212 miles? :P

explorerx4

window a/c kind of ruins the picture even if you like the rest of it.
testarossa 1

it hasn't snowed around here in a while.
testrossa 2

kind of subdued compared to the previous 2.
targa

still around in 2002?
just go away

is 42,000 a good number or a bad number?
how many miles?

the good sister? definitely the plainer one.
christina

someone in colorado has the studebaker market cornered.
there are even more without photos.

exhibit a

exhibit b

exhibit c

i'm not so happy about seeing the trailer in the background.
brg mg

the ford blue highlights in the engine bay don't go with the rest of the car.
tr 6

another one.
reliable?

magnette

Some pictures, as promised. It's been several years since this car has been this far forward in the garage. Apologies for the non-original horrible colour - a 70's respray that will eventually be sorted...




Also tatty interior - not that the exterior is any better....(yet)

magnette

I saw one of these the other day in Wales, a saloon, and it was in daily use - looked as solid as a rock.
I wouldn't say tiny though - it is as big inside as most Euro saloons of it's day - we get used to driving really little cars, first, like Minis and Fiestas, so I suppose it's what you're used to, really.
Swedish people all seem to be huge, tall and at least in Sweden, padded out with snow-jackets, so they must get in them somehow....

andys120

Don't pay too much attention to Andre's notions of size, he thinks anything smaller that his old DeSoto is small. Not many other people, even on this side would feel cramped on any Volvo. Like you say, Swedes tend to be large.

Good luck with your Magnette, I particularly like the Semi-Octagon outline of the speedo. Say did you notice the Steering wheel is on the wrong side? :P

Mr_Shiftright

Well you have a bit of work to do, but the nice thing is that the car seems "all there" and appears to be reasonably solid. I think they are charming little saloons. I certainly like them better than those Jaguar MK VII "blivets" (mum's sofa on wheels?) even if Sterling Moss drove one on a rallye. Most lower priced saloons of that era are quite homely but the Magnette reminds me more of the Italian Appias.

Mr_Shiftright

re: 550 Maranello -- well looks like I'll have to eat my words that a Ferrari costs $1.50 a mile to run---this guy only spent $42,000 to go 64,000 miles. Well at least those are the receipts he saved.

By the way, a Ferrari with over 60,000 miles is a *very* hard sell. You have to do some deep discounts. Basically, if the engine blows up, the car goes to the breaker.

AVANTI -- the car that will not die. Will SOMEONE please give this antiquated bar of soap a decent funeral?

MGA -- not bad, but if it's so "well maintained" how does one explain the rotting out master cylinder? I can explain it. It's a PITA to change it out. And what's with the Weber carb? All it does is load up at idle and eat gas on the freeway. Stiff price but with MGA prices going crazy, he might get it. Something about this car I definitely do not like. Red flags are up. Note the difference between the outside of the car and the engine bay. I'm suspecting a paint job and carpeting over a ratty old undercarriage.

TR6 -- I just love a combination of khaki and sky blue paints in an engine bay. Wrong, wrong. Valve cover should be chromed, air cleaners flat-blacked.

A TR6 reliable? Well it can be reasonably so, once you repair the axle anchors that rip out of the frame. Nice torquey engine. Definitely a "man's" sports car---heavy steering, heavy shifting.

magnette

It'll be a long time before the Magnette does any continental touring, so I think I'll leave the wheel where it is for now...
The dash is actually quite rare - they changed it in late 54, and mine is one of the earlier ones - they all had the semi-octagon speedo though.

Mr_Shiftright

On 30s MGs, you can play "count the octagons"--they are all over the car, even on the door panels in various forms, shapes and materials. It's sort of a cult thing I guess.

magnette

I must say the Lancia Appia does look like the Magnette, although I think it's a little smaller. I think all the bits are there, and it is a fairly simple car, with a lot of bits available - my main worry at the moment is getting it rolling, and passing our "MOT" roadworthy test, which is likely to be a bit of a long shot - apart from anything else the wiring is pretty ropey, and I suspect the mice that were living in the garage a few years might have had a few goes at it too. They certainly took a few lumps out of the under-bonnet insulation on my mother's old Renault Clio.
Cosmetic bits and pieces -- and the paintwork - are going to come later - the budget is going to be a bit stretched as it is.

jrosasmc

I know you love the 120 Series- I do too. They seem to be able to run indefinitely, and like you said, they may possibly be the best cars Volvo ever made.

I always wondered why one can spot a '60s Volvo on the road today, whereas you don't see very many Saabs from that decade anymore- not even the V-4 models. Are there any reasons for that, other than the fact that the transmissions gave out a lot? I'm guessing maybe it's because of poor build quality or those puny 2-stroke engines.

Mr_Shiftright

I think the Volvo aftermarket is much stronger; also the Volvo is so much easier to work on.

A Saab tw-stroke crankshaft is just about un-obtanium, as are most trim parts, and transmission rebuilds are tricky and expensive and....often necessary

fintail

What color was it originally?

I like the traditional speedometer hump too, and the banjo steering wheel has its charm.

fintail

Another fun compliment (of sorts) on the fintail - when I was picking it up, a guy pulled up and asked if it was for sale! (the detail shop is adjacent to a small car lot).

fintail

When I was in high school in the mid 90s, I knew two kids who had Amazons/122s. One guy had a wagon that he painted in his garage and it turned out really well, and a girl actually drove a coupe. I don't remember what spec it was exactly, but I swear it had an emblem on the grille that denoted something about it.

explorerx4

for sale? what was your answer?

hpmctorque

Talk about narrow!? The Appia makes the Volvo 122 look wide, by comparison.

bumpy

Clutch pedal on the right? Interesting.

Mr_Shiftright

The Appia is a very refined car, however, very elegant, and technically interesting. The MG has that wonderful British charm but it's nothing you wouldn't find in 1935. I find both expressions equally interesting.

hpmctorque

"The Appia is a very refined car, however, very elegant, and technically interesting."

Oh, I couldn't agree more. My brief comment about the Appia's narrow width wasn't intended to dilute its significant attributes, but, rather, to point out that the Volvo 122's width wasn't an anomaly for European cars.

The Appia's was designed for the Italian streets and roads of the '50s and early '60s, before the advent of the autostrade, and it was very well suited for its mission. It should also be noted that, unlike in the U.S., where serious concerns about fuel economy first arose in '73-'74, then receded until the late '70s-early '80s, and receded again until recently, fuel economy was always a high priority in Italy and, in varying degrees, the rest of Europe. I'm wondering whether reducing the frontal area to improve fuel efficiency might not also have been a reason for less width in European cars, compared with Detroit models.