Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
Options

I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today! (Archived)

12772782802822831306

Comments

  • bumpybumpy Member Posts: 4,425
    Naaah.

    image
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    Full size image Full size
    All original. Owned by parents. 1968. Rated 490 out of 500 points at Buick Show.

    image

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • toomanyfumestoomanyfumes Member Posts: 1,019
    That's a sweet Electra. Like the color.
    2012 Mustang Premium, 2013 Lincoln MKX Elite, 2007 Mitsubishi Outlander.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    it was two weeks ago, but I finally got around to posting the pics I took at the 2008 GM Nationals in Carlisle, PA. Enjoy!

    Lemko, I could have sworn I took some pics of your '89 Brougham, but they weren't on the camera! So, I'll just substitute this pic I took last year.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    ...I saw a gold color Chevette 4-door. Don't know the model year, but it was at least a 1980, since the grill remained the same from '80-'87. This particular one must have been the strippo model, since it didn't have any side chrome. It's been a long time since I've seen a Chevette.

    I also saw a late model BMW 5-Series, but what made this one stand out - I did a double take! - was that it had 3 Buick-like port holes on each front fender. The body looked like it was in decent shape, as it was being driven through a
    Mc Donalds parking lot.
  • toomanyfumestoomanyfumes Member Posts: 1,019
    I've seen those cheesy fake port holes stuck on everything from Hyundai's to Navigators. I don't get it.
    2012 Mustang Premium, 2013 Lincoln MKX Elite, 2007 Mitsubishi Outlander.
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,670
    Funny, I saw the same thing, three portholes lined up on the side of a Dodge Stratus. :confuse: :sick:

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    an aftermarket porthole kit with four of them, rather than three? I never have. Since a lot of people buy those things for instant status, you'd think they'd try to at least mock the nicer Buicks, rather than the cheap ones. :P
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    The college girls who rent a house next door to my mother have an odd car - an Audi 100S, ca. 1992-93. It seems to be reliable and it's been there for some time. I bet that's fun to find parts for and repair.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    I've seen lots of Geo Metros called back into duty the last several weeks! I didn't know there were so many in garages around here!

    I see a Justy
    That's all rusty
    And the windows
    Look really tall.

    Sort of like this...

    image

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    I've seen lots of Geo Metros called back into duty the last several weeks! I didn't know there were so many in garages around here!

    On a similar note, there seem to be more first-gen Toyota Priuses on the roads these days than there were when they were new! Kinda makes me wonder where they were all hiding. The 2nd gen has always been a common sight for me, since I work for NASA and live close by, and those techno-weenie scientists and engineers go ga-ga over them.

    I'm surprised though, to see the earlier Priuses suddenly pop up. I mean, it's not like they were a cheap, throwaway car to begin with, and I'd imagine many of them are getting towards the end of the useful life of the battery pack.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    >many of them are getting towards the end of the useful life of the battery pack.

    I thought Priuses never have had a battery pack go bad, according to some. :blush:

    I'm amazed at the scientists making all the pollution with their projects and space shots wanting to be "green."

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,670
    I've been seeing Gen 1 Prii lately, maybe it's the same one and I've seen it several times. :confuse:

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,342
    was out running around locally the other day, and it was British sports car day. In the space of a couple hours, I saw a yellow XKE (chrome bumpers), a nice shiny MGB (also chromes, but the front end seemed to ride kind of high) and a TR4 (that was missing the front bumper!)

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    I drove on the highway for a few hours this morning and was able to snap a couple pics of noteworthy oddities

    image

    image
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    "I've seen lots of Geo Metros called back into duty the last several weeks!"

    Reference my message #14076, regarding my Chevette sighting, it didn't occur to me when I saw it, but your comment imidazol, makes me think that maybe that Chevette had been brought back from the pasture. After all, when was the last time you saw a Chevette actually being driven? Oh sure, once in a great while I'll see one on someone's lawn, resting next to someone's garage, or in the back yard, or some such thing, but you must admit that it's rare that you see one, or a Pinto, for that matter, moving under it's own power, right? And when you do see a Chevette or a Pinto on the road, chances are it's got big wheels, and huge tires, at least in back, and has something bigger than a wheezing I-4 under the hood.

    While I'm on the subject of Chevettes, I remember that they weren't too respected, but I don't recall that they were flawed, as the Vega was, or the Pinto, with its explosion prone fuel tank. The Chevette, as I recall, was based on an Opel (Kadette?) design, and variations of that car were produced in Brazil, for the Brazilian and Argentine markets, and maybe for other South American markets too. No, it wasn't a great car, not as good as the Hondas and Toyotas of the day, but reasonably competitive, nevertheless. I recall renting one once, and thinking that, while it was inferior to the Omni/Horizon, for example, it was decent transportation for the economy class of '79, which is when I rented it.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    "I've seen those cheesy fake port holes stuck on everything from Hyundai's to Navigators."

    Yeah, but on a late model BMW? I mean, come on!

    "an aftermarket porthole kit with four of them, rather than three? I never have. Since a lot of people buy those things for instant status, you'd think they'd try to at least mock the nicer Buicks, rather than the cheap ones."

    Of course (dope slap!!), if you're a super rare BMW owner who'd really rather be driving a Buick, why not aim for Buick's biggest and best, with four port holes? Ah, but wait, maybe that frustrated, envious, and emotionally disturbed used (albeit not too old) BMW owner really hankers for a Maserati Quattroporte, but can't afford one. While the Quattroporte has a powerful dual overhead cam V8 under the hood, it only sports three port holes on each fender. And while older Buick Roadmasters and Electras had four portholes, to differentiate them from lesser Buicks, the new Buick Super has only three, the last time I looked. So, I think this solves the puzzle of why three instead of four port holes.
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,670
    I got a Chevette for a loaner from my dealer once and thought it was one of the worst cars I've ever driven. I could see the hood flexing while driving down a smooth interstate at 65.

    Yeah the Chevette was originally an Opel Kadette,probably the worst car to ever wear that badge. The geniuses who ran GM in the '70s decided it should be GM's "world car", sold as an Isuzu Gemini, Vauxhall Chevette, Pontiac T-100 (Acadian in CDN), Holden Gemini etc.

    I saw a bunch of 'em in Rio in '76, badged as Chevy Chevettes.

    My cousin rented one while visiting us in the 70s, he summed it up aptly as
    "a car for the 55 mph speed limit."

    BTW, I doubt they were particularly fuel-efficient.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    Don't you think some of those negative feelings were attributable to a strong, long held preference for large cars in the late '70s/early '80s?
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    I saw a Cadillac Eldorado, the one with "ETC" on the trunk... I always enjoyed that. Is it etc. or is it Electronic Traction Control. Sort of like a major foreign maker choosing TRD for the model labels. I always see that as T***.

    But the Eldorado had the "air vent" from the new CTS on the sides. They actually looked great there. I had to stop to figure which car they had come off of because so many use the faux side vents now.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Funny...I saw a dead Chevette alongside the road today. It was one of the midlife models - bigger tailights but an older looking front end.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Eldorado Touring Coupe...same idea as the Seville STS etc....creates a weird redundant name.

    I thought the same the first time I saw a "TRD" too.

    When I saw the first local new CTS sitting in the showroom, I stopped to look at it. Dealer told me the cliched fender vents were functional. They are not, right?
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    I got a Chevette for a loaner from my dealer once and thought it was one of the worst cars I've ever driven. I could see the hood flexing while driving down a smooth interstate at 65.

    Heck, if it's any consolation, the hood on my '76 LeMans will shimmy out on the highway at speeds lower than that! :blush: Actually, once you get up to 65 or so I think it smooths out. And I've seen big 70's Eldorados, where the hood just wiggles like Jell-O, when it's just sitting there idling. It almost seems that, with GM at least, the bigger and more upscale you got, the more they jiggled! I guess it's just because the hoods got too big, with not enough bracing.

    I dunno if Ford and Chrysler in general were better or worse in this regard, but my friend's two 1978 Mark V's seem more solid, at least when it comes to hood shimmy. And I don't notice any at all in either of my '79 New Yorkers.

    Somehow, I've managed to go my entire life without ever having ridden in a Chevette. I guess I should be thankful. :)
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    >fender vents were functional.

    I probably am wrong. I just assumed they weren't. A friend had his CTS at the party July 4. I should have looked it over. Crimson Pearl paint!!!

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,670
    Don't you think some of those negative feelings were attributable to a strong, long held preference for large cars in the late '70s/early '80s?.

    Certainly not on my part, I've never liked big cars and I particularly loathe the big cars of the 70s and early 80s. My ride during the 70s was a '71 Fiat 124 Spider. I replaced it in '79 with a Honda Accord hatchback. :shades:

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    That gives your comments about the Chevette more legitimacy.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Any Honda Insights? For some reason I am fascinated by the Insight - probably due to its bullet-like contours and skirted wheels. Maybe I just like it because it's not a Toyota.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    In my world, a Buick trumps a BMW any day! The Buick Lucerne Super has four portholes. Not sure about the LaCrosse Super. Maybe that one only has three. Have no need to visit the Buick dealer too often with our super-reliable 1988 Buick Park Avenue and 2005 Buick LaCrosse!
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Maybe it was just the Eldorado. I had a 1975 Cadillac Sedan DeVille and I don't remember the hood shaking. That hood was huge and heavy!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    "Don't you think some of those negative feelings were attributable to a strong, long held preference for large cars in the late '70s/early '80s?"

    I don't think so. I think many of those small cars really were as crappy as people suspected they were. Many were "desperation engineering", rushed to market, etc.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,107
    "I think many of those small cars really were as crappy as people suspected they were. "

    Absolutely - US cars (Vegas, Pintos, Chevettes) were crappy and unreliable, so thankfully they quickly disappeared. Japanese small cars ("Honey Bee" B210s, early Corollas) were just about as bad, but were reliable, living on to torment owner after owner desparate for high mpgs....
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    I acknowledged in an earlier message that the leading Japanese small cars were better than the Detroit ones, but if you lived in the upper midwest, as I did at that time, what mattered more was proneness to rust. The one car that was better than its Japanese counterparts, in terms of rust protection, was the Chevette. The Vega, especially the early ones, was atrocious on rust, and the Pinto was little better, about on a par with the Japanese imports, but the Chevette had better rust protection, and, therefore, sometimes lasted longer. Hard to believe, I suppose, but true. The Gremlin, built in Kenosha, WI, may also have been a tad better than the Pinto and the Japanese cars.
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,670
    In my world, a Buick trumps a BMW any day!

    What color is the sky in that world of yours? ;) It so happens that I drove my MIL's LeSabre when I was in Arizona for the winter. I missed my BMW 528iA so much, I may drive it the 2500 miles out this winter.

    FYI both cars are 8 years old and even tho the Bimmer has almost three times the miles on it, it looks and runs way better than the Buick.

    Have ever driven a BMW?

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Have ever driven a BMW?

    Every time I had a chance, it was in the shop! :P
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    "... both cars are 8 years old and even tho the Bimmer has almost three times the miles on it, it looks and runs way better than the Buick."

    Looks are subjective, wouldn't you agree, andys? And the term "runs better" is somewhat vague, at a minimum, and is subject to a considerable amount of interpretation. I would say that most reviewers would rank the 5-Series well above the LeSabre, in terms of driving dynamics, and that most enthusiasts would find the BMW to be a much more enjoyable car to drive than the Buick. However, based on my knowledge, and ownership experience with GM cars (although not Buick specifically) and BMW, that the Buick's cost of ownership would be less than the BMW's.

    So, which car is better? I guess the answer would depend on what one's priorities are. For my needs and tastes, the 5-Series would be more rewarding, but I can appreciate the merits of owning a LeSabre, for many non-enthusiast drivers.
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,670
    Well I agree with almost everything you've said but I am among enthusiasts and I couldn't very well let Lemko's preference for Buicks over BMW's go unanswered could I? ;)

    One more thing about the practicalities. In theory the Buick might be cheaper to run but it gives every sign that it will be trouble prone by the time it reaches the 106,000+ miles that are on my car which seldom (perhaps twice) has had to go in for unscheduled service.

    When I get back AZ I'll need to look into why full throttle upshifts are so rough on that LeSabre, they're smooth as butter on the Bimmer. Ironically the Fiver's A/T is built by a GM subsidiary in Strasbourg, France.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    A buddy of mine recently bought a 2002 or 2003 BMW 530. I rode in it once, and it's pretty nice. Good handling, from what I could tell as a passenger, roomy in the front seat, at least, and for a sporty car it still had a nice, smooth ride.

    Still, if I had to choose between an 8 year old BMW or an 8 year old LeSabre, well...neither one really excites me. If someone were to give me the BMW, I'd probably just sell it and invest the money, but if someone gave me the LeSabre, then I'd make the determination as to which was in better shape, the Buick or my Intrepid, and sell the one that was the worse of the two.

    I drove a used 2000 LeSabre Custom a few years back, and wasn't overly impressed. To be fair though, I think GM designed these things on purpose to be numb and floaty, and to feel bigger than they really were, because that's what they thought the buyers wanted. I've also heard that by this time, if you bought the Limited model, you got better wheels, tires, and suspension. It's not going to turn it into a BMW, but I'm sure would still be a big improvement.

    I guess I'm just a a cheap fiscally conservative point in my life right now. :shades:
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    wow! a mercury mystique. :)
    today i saw 2 new silver prius back to back with dealer plates on them. no, wait 3 in a row, no 4 in a row! they were causing a bit of a traffic jam(gawkers). after i thought about it, they were probably headed for the state motor pool.
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • omarmanomarman Member Posts: 2,702
    Japanese small cars were better than the Detroit ones, but if you lived in the upper midwest, as I did at that time, what mattered more was proneness to rust.

    True enough in Ohio too.

    An old girlfriend of mine used to drive a 1976 Datsun B210 Honeybee that her family purchased new. And it's been a very long time since I saw one of those on the road.

    It wound up being her first car after she got her license. And she defended every rust spot and fluid which was barfed out of that :sick: thing.

    At a local shop the service guy was inspecting the front tires for replacement and checking to see if he had the correct size in stock. She and I got into a pointless spat because she insisted that it was still running on the original tires from the factory. In 1981. With 104K miles. Like it even mattered, but...

    By that time not even the engine was OEM from the factory.

    A cracked head was replaced in 1980 (engine head that is). A new head gasket was needed 2 years later. The body was severely rusted (the car body, dummy) when it quit around 1983 with 130K miles and a long list of needs.

    Many GM/Ford/Mopar products from that era could easily match that record and yet still receive the J.D. Power Stinkeye Award for consumer outrage. :lemon:

    Fairly often I still spot 70's Detroit cars/trucks on the road in Columbus but the popular imports of that era are a rare sight indeed. It was only 5 years ago when a retired neighbor of mine gave up his AMC Hornet and bought a Cavalier.

    My best, first impression of any Japanese car was the early 70's Toyota Corona. Pathetic by today's standards, but it could get up to 20 mpg and carry 4 people in an upright, reasonably comfortable position. I liked it.

    I still preferred the 1971(?) Opel Kadette with its dual carb, 1.1 liter engine and 4-speed over the Corona, though. For a cheap economy car the Opel was still German-correct in the way it worked and felt.

    Somehow, I missed out on the Datsun 510 experience at that time. Never drove or got a ride in one. They say it was good. :)

    But, had you told me then that Honda/Toyota would soon rule and Opel would be remembered as a freak in the U.S., I would have played Country Joe and The Fish - Don't Bogart That Joint on the jukebox. Just for you.

    I shouldn't get started on old imports and old girlfriends because I don't know when to stop, sorry. (By the way, her next car was a vintage 240Z. The horror. The horror.)
    A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,107
    Saw a 300zx convertible, but an odd year - '84-'89. No listings for this, must have been from a chop shop. Very good looking job, factory should have done it. Much better looking than the later 300zx convertible.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    One reason you don't see many early 70s imports might be that they were not worth restoring, whereas many 1970-74 domestic cars, especially GM cars and the last generation Mustang, were, or are, restored.

    The foreign cars really came into their stride in the 1975-1985 era, when American cars were at their very worst.

    You might view the time periods as: (just my two cents)

    1968-1974 - foreign cars challenge the domestics seriously, with successes and failures. A period of experimentation and very aggressive marketing.

    1975-1985 - imports ravage the Big Three market share all across the board

    1985--present -- imports gain market share slowly and steadily, year by year, by trumping domestics on technology and styling. Domestics fight back with SUVs and pickup trucks, the last bastion of their expertise.

    So chances are your spottings of earlyl 70s cars, if imports, are "survivor cars" not restored, whereas early 70s domestics are often restored.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,023
    One reason you don't see many early 70s imports might be that they were not worth restoring, whereas many 1970-74 domestic cars, especially GM cars and the last generation Mustang, were, or are, restored.

    I think another factor might simply be that, until the first fuel crisis, import car, especially Japanese cars, hadn't made much headway yet, except for the coasts. Domestics cars were still selling very strongly in the early 70's. In fact, I think calendar (rather than model year) year 1972 actually set a record for domestic car sales. And 1973 promised to be even better...indeed for the first 10-11 months it actually was. Until the oil embargo.

    That's when Japanese cars really started to get ahold of the market. But by and large, they were still just throwaway economy cars. There was the Datsun Z, which was a hot little number for the time, and still has a strong following to this day. And the 510 enjoyed some success as a "poor mans' BMW", although I think that was the earlier 70's models. Upscale Japanese cars, like the Toyota Cressida and Datsun 810, either weren't that popular here or weren't even available here until the later 70's. So while domestics offered something for every market niche at that time, the Japanese were focused mainly on the economy/throwaway end of the market.

    Even if they were better built, and higher-quality pieces than our throwaway Pintos and Vegas and Chevettes, they were still viewed by the driving public as cheap, throwaway cars, and tended to be treated as such.

    People probably viewed larger cars with more respect and as less of a throwaway item, and tended to take better care of them. Although I'm ashamed to admit that my Dad left a '65 Impala SS396, abandoned, along a country road after it threw a rod. And this was only like 1971-72.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,107
    re the convertible, must have been a Straman, he supposedly did 11 of these:

    image
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,342
    outside a book store (figures) in NJ: A decent looking VW Thing. Haven't seen one of these actually moving in ages.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Great summer beach car, though.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Spotted a silver 1979 Buick Electra Limited with a lot of surface rust and a rotted black top and a brown 1973 Chevrolet Nova with heavy front and rear damage.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Two future Chinese teapots right there.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 20,723
    i had the pleasure of driving one in vermont during the winter. it had a gas heater. decision was sort of warm or use less gas. i posted once before about wrapping wet towels around the windows, which would freeze and cut down on the drafts. the good old days. :)
    2024 Ford F-150 STX, 2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • omarmanomarman Member Posts: 2,702
    Seen in the late afternoon today on the far north side of Columbus:

    Early Ford Tudor, bright orange(!) with a black roof top, under the 1 piece hood appeared to be 2X4bbl carbs on the V-8.

    It was followed closely by a maroon Roadster pulling a color coordinated 2-wheeled cargo trailer.

    I have no clue on the pre-WWII cars, really. They both looked great but what's the best tip off to dating the style? Radiator grille or ?? There may be more of these driving around this weekend.

    1947 Ford, cream-tan color, de-chromed, with no rear bumper or stock tail lights. Healthy V-8 rumble though.

    1950-something Chevy panel truck. Flat black with bright green wheels. Caught only a quick glimpse.

    1955 Chevy Nomad, 2 dr, burnt orange with a gold painted roof. Lowered a bit with a slight rake in stance. Saw it drive by twice and it was gorgeous coming and going.

    1966 Valiant, light blue, 4-door sedan

    1966 Ford Galaxie 2 door fastback, yellow, gleaming chrome trim, looked great and sounded like a 390 V-8 throb.

    1967 Valiant, 2 door, gold, it drove by @ the speed limit with a deep resonant burble.

    1967 Mustang, red with a white convertible top.

    1969 Buick Skylark (possibly GS), light blue, saw it twice but only from the rear driver-side 3/4 and the passenger rear quarter.

    1969 Camaro RS, red with steel rims and chrome dish covers. Very sharp.

    1970 Chevy Impala 2 dr, champagne gold with black vinyl top and aftermarket chrome wheels.

    1972 El Camino, dark blue

    And then there was...

    1973 Ford LTD 2 dr, brown with a tan vinyl top and oval opera windows. Also a trunk lid-mounted "continental kit." I noticed the stock OEM wheel covers on its second drive by.

    An early 1980's Impala 2 dr, faded gray with black vinyl top. Drove past at least 4 times under it's own power, but had it been parked I may not have believed that possible.

    Also spotted 6(!) late 80's/early 90's Tempo/Topaz sedans. The lone Topaz was ratty but all the Tempo's actually looked like clean, decent drivers. Odd.

    The traffic mix must be due to the Goodguys 11th PPG Nationals at the Ohio Expo this weekend starting tomorrow. Well, the interesting traffic anyway.
    A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Regarding the early cars, the front end is always the giveaway (unless it has been modified). Save for many Model Ts having the same grille and most Model As having a similar grille, all Fords 32-42 are pretty easy to distinguish once one memorizes the details.

    You'll know a 66 Galaxie has a 390 if you look in the window with the car running and see the gas gauge going down...that's how it worked on mine :P
This discussion has been closed.