I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today!

andre1969

spotted on a new tv show that my roommate is watching, called "Cult". It's an orangish-red sedan. And, get this...its license plate is 149-PCE. Same license plate as Dennis Weaver's Valiant in "Duel"!

BTW, what's wrong with my mind when some useless piece of trivia, like Dennis Weaver's license plate sticks in my mind, but then some nights I can't remember what I did two nights ago! Priorities, eh? :P

uplanderguy

Does the Valiant itself look like the one in 'Duel'? I remember it being an upper-trim-level one, with the full wheelcovers with the holes around the center, and notchback front seat with center armrest...and blackwall tires! Obviously the show, or at least the episode you saw, is an homage to 'Duel'! Love that movie! In fact, I liked a lot of the "Movie of the Week" flicks (you may be youngish to remember many of them). I found one on YouTube a few months ago that I remembered watching at the time and there was a scene a few minutes from the end that at the time just made me jump out of my chair--it was called "The Screaming Woman", based on a story by Ray Bradbury and the movie featured Olivia deHavilland and also a cameo by Joseph Cotten, both of whom were in "Hush..Hush, Sweet Charlotte", which I love.

andre1969

Well, the Valiant is orangish-red, and a 4-door like the one in Duel. Wheelcovers looked similar. I didn't catch the trim level though. Duel came out in 1971, so that Valiant may have been either a '70 or '71. By that time, it looks like the upper level "Signet" trim level was gone, and they were all just "Valiants". But, I'm sure there was some optional trim, just not broken out in the old car books into a separate trim line.

Also, this wouldn't be the first time a movie has paid a little tribute to "Duel".
A few years back, there was a movie called "Torque", I think. In the early minutes, there was a chase scene on motorcycles. At one point, a reddish-orange Valiant (but I think a '69) pulls out on the road and nearly creams some of the bikers. Then, a moment later, a gasoline tanker (it was actually one of the "Backup trucks" from Duel that was never used because it kept breaking down, yet survived all these years) pulls out on the road, and I think it made a couple bikers wipe out.

There was also an "Incredible Hulk" episode, from the first season, called "Never Give a Trucker and Even Break", that uses a lot of stock footage from Duel. However, they did round up a Valiant, and a similar truck, for when they shot new footage. For that episode, they had David Banner, one of the bad guys, and a lady trucker all wear blue shirts, because Dennis Weaver wore a blue shirt in Duel!

At one point, the Incredible Hulk kicks a door off the Valiant, and you can see where they forgot to paint the door jambs, when they made it orangish-red! And, it was a cheap model, with a low-grade black vinyl interior. Dennis Weaver's Valiant, as I recall, had a 2-tone brown interior, and was pretty nice...if still vinyl. I heard the truck they used for that episode got blown up in some other movie in the late 70's.

Oh, and "Hush Hush, Sweet Charlotte" is a movie I liked a lot.

andre1969

...is Christine's license plate CBQ-247?

fintail

Cars today - black MGA, 60s Beetle with roof rack, E55 wagon, white RR Cloud that looked to have sat outside a little, blue F355 cabrio at a VW dealer (20K miles of interior wear looked like an old MB at 200K).

uplanderguy

Oh, and "Hush Hush, Sweet Charlotte" is a movie I liked a lot.

It's probably been my favorite movie since I was a kid. I have it on DVD now. It's got some plot holes, but I like it better than the earlier and better-known "Whatever Happened to Baby Jane?", another Robert Aldrich chiller with Bette Davis and Victor Buono. And a couple nice '64 Electra 225 six-window sedans and a a '64 Buick Special sedan are in it too, although they want you to think that "Dr. Drew" only drove a '64 Dodge Dart.

andre1969

I was a bit of a latecomer to "Hush-Hush"...probably first saw it around 5-6 years ago. But, I liked it enough that when it came on a couple years later, I saved it on the DVR. Unfortunately, when we switched from Directv to FIOS, we had to mail back the Directv units, and that became of "Hush-Hush...", "Gone with the Wind", "To Catch A Thief", five epsiodes of "Newhart", an episode of the new "Speed Racer" cartoon where the Mammoth Car and Melange/X-5 made a cameo appearance, Cannonball, and Lord-knows what else.

Oh well, it's not like any of that stuff is irreplaceable!

tjc78

It's close. . I did a Google image and many look a likes have CQB-241.

andre1969

Wow, so other than the last number being off, and my Lysdexia showing through, I guess I didn't do too bad! :P

lemko

The front end looks similar around the lights, but this one looked just like the 1960 Imperial, only with the lights on that show car. The car I'm think of was black. Maybe it was a one-off for some Chrysler exec?

lemko

I think the 1992-up Cadillac Sevilles still look sharp. I remember being blown away by the all-new design, especially compared to the truly wretched 1986-91 Seville.

lemko

I've said it here before - Detroit forgot how to build AMERICAN cars and started building mediocre copies of Japanese and European ones because they thought that's what people wanted.

tjc78

I think the 1992-up Cadillac Sevilles still look sharp

Absolutely, they have aged well.

lemko

...faded and dented red Porsche 944 at work, (somebody's project car?) at work and a nice GMC Syclone pickup at Napfle and Oxford Avenune in NE Philly.

boomchek

I agree with you as well. The lineup then was sharp and modern looking for the times from the Seville to the Eldo, to the Allante, andeven the Deville.

Even when the Seville was redesigned in the late 90s it stayed with the same general shape, with just some rounded off corners.

ateixeira

My brother-in-law has a black one, the earlier model.

The sunroof leaks. He basically caulked the roof closed to seal it. I'm not kidding, it's this black RV sealant or something.

They're dirt cheap used, but I think his engine is also beginning to go.

fintail

Saw this parked on the street this morning - not a daily sight:

ateixeira

Dealer? Must be considering the Aston and Ferrari that make it a tasty sammich!

fintail

Body shop. Same Ferrari from a few weeks ago, E63 is gone now.

I think the Countach is an 88-89 model.

hpmctorque

"Most of the advantage, IIRC, was in headroom."

I'm almost certain that leg room was also greater in the 2-sedans than the coupes.

Two-door sedans seem to have gone the way of the do-do bird. Yet, there are 2-dooe SUVs, although I can't think of one at the moment.

hpmctorque

"And then there's my earlier 1967 Mustang, 289 with 3 on the tree..."

All factory Mustangs had floor shifters. Ford never built a Mustang with 3-on-the-tree.

stickguy

if by "american cars" you mean overly large, floaty barges, there are a lot of people that were not interested. Otherwise they would have sold a lot more crown vics!

boomchek

That's cool! I always liked the Countaches and you barely see any these days!

tjc78

if by "american cars" you mean overly large, floaty barges, there are a lot of people that were not interested. Otherwise they would have sold a lot more crown vics!

I've actually finally come to terms that what I like (big floaty barges) is not what the majority of the car buying public likes. At the moment there are very few large cars left. I think even my LaCrosse isn't that big and certainly isn't floaty like a Vic or Grand Marq (although my Grand Marq actually has a higher steering effort).

Toyota firmed up the Avalon and ES350, GM has firmed up just about everything and Ford as well. Its the way it is, majority rules. I'll just have to keep the Grand Marq a long time!

andre1969

They probably would have sold a lot more Crown Vics (and Panthers in general, GM RWD B/C Bodies, etc) if not for one little thing. Car buyers found something even bigger and more ponderous to gravitate to: Standard-sized pickups and SUVs! I'm sure the CAFE regs no doubt helped in this shift. Ford and GM couldn't build *too* many big cars, or they'd get penalized. But they could crank out trucks and SUVs all day long, with little incentive to stop, and the public snatched them up.

tjc78

Car buyers found something even bigger and more ponderous to gravitate to: Standard-sized pickups and SUVs!

True, they were looked at as the "in" thing at the time. Ford allowed the Panther to just stay stagnant from basically 98 to the end. There was a major suspension update in 03 (added rack and pinion steering) and some further tweaks in 05 (DBW) but they allowed it to basically fade away.

I've always thought they could have done an independent rear suspension and a modern V6 along with some newer high tech features. I think they would have sold quite a few more to consumers. My 04 has the "Florida" treatment but the later models could certainly be made to look less Grandpa-ish.

jljac

I was writing my post making the same observations, but you posted first.

I don't know why so many Americans buy such large, bulky vehicles, but they do. Many Americans just switched from large cars to large SUVs and pick-up trucks. Here is a list of the best selling vehicles in America.
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2013/03/february-2013-usa-vehicle-sales-rankings-by- - -model.html

Of the American vehicles, the Ford F-series truck is No 1, the Chevy Silverado is No.2, the Ford Fusion is No. 5, Ford Escape No,. 9 and the Dodge Ram is No. 10. The only car in the top ten is the Ford Fusion. The best selling GM cars are the Chevy Cruze at No. 16, the Malibu at No. 17
and the Impala at No. 18.

It is hard to believe that the best selling General Motors cars cannot make the top ten, but that is how things are.

Mr_Shiftright

I found an '81 380 SL, low miles, very clean, black 2 tops. You think this car might bring decent money in Germany? They are pretty much bargain basement cars here. I can buy it cheap but don't want to be stuck with it. Market in USA is $5K to $8K. It would be nice if the Euro market were about 2X that.

hpmctorque

" 'Florida' tratment", let me guess: Vinyl top plus ??

andre1969

One reason trucks are so popular is probably because they're so versatile. Most of them are offered as a regular cab, extended cab, crew cab, shot bed, standard bed, 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton, 1 ton (and to be fair, heavier medium-duty work trucks are grouped in with those sales). Often there's a fairly wide range of engine choices as well.

With most cars, you're lucky if you get more than one body style to choose from. And usually just a base engine (usually a 4-cyl) and an optional (6-cyl or stronger 4).

Also, there's not one single car out there that I would really consider a "full-size" car, at least in the classic sense. Nothing that can hold 6 passengers and 20+ cubic feet of cargo. The Taurus does have a pretty big trunk, around 21 cubic feet. But its interior isn't all that big...about the same size inside as an old 80's Malibu or Diplomat. The Charger/300 seem a bit bigger inside, but are hampered a bit by the big transmission/driveshaft hump, and a midsized trunk. The new Impala feels bigger inside still, and has a bigger trunk than the Charger, but I don't think it's as big as the Taurus. But it still doesn't have big-car shoulder room. It's a VERY comfy 4-seater that could handle 5 if you needed to.

Now, trucks don't get very good fuel economy, so you pay the penalty there. But, apparently, a lot of people are willing to make that sacrifice. My new Ram Hemi has gotten as bad as around 12.3 mpg around town, and broke 20 on the highway once. My 2000 Park Ave has done as bad as maybe 14.5 mpg, but on the highway it got around 30 mpg a few times. 27-28 is more typical. Running average since I've had it is about 20.6. Truck is around 14.3, but it doesn't get driven as much, and shorter trips, so that probably hurts it alot.

ateixeira

hard to believe that the best selling General Motors cars cannot make the top ten

Well, Cruze is sort of a big compact, and Malibu is a smallish mid-size, so they overlap a lot and probably cannibalize each other a bit.

Malibu leaves room for the Impala one size up. Some competitors fill the mid-size and full-size segment with the same car - like Honda.

Then you've got the craziness at Nissan - the new Sentra is enormous, probably has a bigger back seat than the Malibu, yet Nissan has an Altima and a Maxima above that in size.

fintail

Actually, on the Euro market, it is worth 2x or more what it is worth here. 107s are really popular in Germany. But, it would have to be genuinely nice, and maybe take off a grand for a bumper conversion - some Europeans like our inset headlights, but nobody likes the park bench bumpers. That's also a year that needs the dual timing chain conversion, IIRC.

andre1969

Then you've got the craziness at Nissan - the new Sentra is enormous, probably has a bigger back seat than the Malibu, yet Nissan has an Altima and a Maxima above that in size.

During lunch my lunchbreak, I saw a new Nissan coming up behind me, and thought it was an Altima at first. But, as it passed, I saw it was just a Sentra. You're right, those things HAVE gotten pretty big!

As for the Altima and Maxima (and previously, the Stanza and Maxima/810), there was almost always some degree of overlap between the two. In most years, the Altima (or Stanza) was actually bigger inside than the Maxima! I think the difference is that the Altima/Stanza has been more of a bread and butter compact, then midsize, whereas the Maxima was more of a "premium" car (I hesitate to say "luxury", even though they are pretty nice). Back in the old days, it was sort of an attempt at a Ford Granada, but in later years, has been more like a poor man's BMW...first a 3-series contender, but now more like a 5-series. Albeit FWD.

ateixeira

It used to be the other way around. The Versa was roomier than the Sentra.

The new Versa sedan is a lot smaller than the just-launched Sentra sedan.

To confuse things even more, the Versa Note 5 door is not based on the same platform as the Versa sedan. Not unlike the Elantra sedan vs. GT.

fintail

I like them too - such a childhood icon for everyone around our age. There's an early periscopo car in my area, but I don't know if I have seen another on the road.

tjc78

" 'Florida' tratment", let me guess: Vinyl top plus ??

Full cloth roof, chrome fender trim, pinstripe thin white walls.

tjc78

Also, there's not one single car out there that I would really consider a "full-size" car, at least in the classic sense. Nothing that can hold 6 passengers and 20+ cubic feet of cargo.

No there isn't. My Lacrosse has a fairly decent sized interior, but shoulder room is only fair and the trunk is not large at all.

The Ford Taurus is probably the largest car with the smallest useable interior in recent years. The center console is very large, driver's foot room is non-existent and the rear legroom isn't so hot. The trunk is, however, huge.

The Panther's had great shoulder room, six passenger (on all except a few LX sports and GM LSE's) but rear legroom is a tad less than many FWD drive newer models.

One car that had tremendous room in all aspects was the 05-12 Avalon. The rear floor was flat and rear seat reclined to make it feel even bigger back there. Toyota took every good aspect of that car and destroyed with this new model.

lemko

Except for the top color, that looks like my ride! Mine has a tan top!

andre1969

I think if they would have put some blackout trim on the door frames at the B-pillar, it would be a little detail that would make those fake tops a lot more palatable.

I wonder, is that one little detail that Ford eliminated to cut costs, at some point? I remember in the past, they'd have blackout trim there, rather than it being body color.

tjc78

I wonder, is that one little detail that Ford eliminated to cut costs, at some point? I remember in the past, they'd have blackout trim there, rather than it being body color.

Probably, they kept decontenting the Panther right to the end. Mine is one of the last fully loaded models with the air suspension, heated seats, wood wheel w/controls, side air bags and of course the retro full digital dash (1985 flashback!)

On the last models they took away all that.

tjc78

Except for the top color, that looks like my ride! Mine has a tan top!

I've never seen a total clone of mine. I've seen white with black top but never with the black interior as well.

I was toying with the idea of taking the chrome fender trim off, but I'm afraid what 9 years of having it on would look like. One was a little loose and when I peeked behind it, everything seemed fine. I'm still a little afraid to.

Mr_Shiftright

one dealer told me that the Europeans like the W 107 but only with *very* low mileages, and that one of the first things they do to a 380SL is throw away the bumpers and put the earlier ones on. By low miles, apparently my 87,000 miler does not qualify. They want 50K or less.

Yes the single-row timing chain does need to be looked at. Most have been converted but god forbid it hasn't been done and that single row chain gets loose and jumps time---that'll cost ya'

I sure wish it could have been a clean 280SL for $5,000. I'd be in hog heaven on those profits.

andys120

A "Full Florida" includes not only the cloth or vinyl roof (or half roof) and the aforementioned chromed fender liners but also opera lights in the rear (C) panel and most of all the faux continental spare in the rear. Fake landau irons on the C-panel are optional. This treatment may be applied to any Ford or L-M Panther, Cadillac, Buick or any K-car or derivative.

If applied to a Chevy or any non-US make it does not count as Full Florida but as utter sacrilege.

My Dad leased a '82 Chrysler New Yorker with the full Florida treatment.

fintail

If it is going to a LHD Euro market, they use kms, so they will want it under 100K, which is just over 60K miles. A 90K mile car is approaching 150K kms, so that will be less desirable. Still, a really nice 107 like that would still easily bring 10-12K Euro/$13-15K in Germany. However, with the cost of transport, conversion, and any updating (must pass German inspection), the margin becomes pretty small. An iffy transmission or valve job will put you in the red.

A nice 113 280SL for 5K would be one to keep - they've never been worth that little, and have seen a bit of appreciation over the past decade. Keep it, fix it up, drive it.

tjc78

If applied to a Chevy or any non-US make it does not count as Full Florida but as utter sacrilege.

LOL. I've seen just about everything around here with cloth tops. Altimas, new generation LaCrosse, Camry, Malibu, CTS, STS, DTS.

Mr_Shiftright

Nah I don't really want to drive a W107--well i wouldn't mind on a summer's day (nice ride!) but they are gas hogs and let's face it, on a 380SL, if the transmission goes out, the car is totaled.

maybe if I could absolutely *steal* the car i might be tempted--but the idea was to flip it.

I agree, once you add up all the costs to Germany, it's not worth it.

Euro market is soft right now for classics of any kind except creme de la creme big buck rarities.

fintail

Oh, I meant a 113 280SL - I don't really yearn for a 107 either.

In Europe, it is the 6cyl cars that are most in demand - 280SL and 300SL.

omarman

Just curious about how the euro market values a 380SL as opposed to the 5 liter version which used to be a common grey market import to NA back then.

And also does the metric "100 kms" mark have the same impact on car buyers there as the 100k mile reading here? It would be funny to read seller ads for old Camrys and Accords claiming, "...just getting broken in nicely at 400 kms!"

Mr_Shiftright

My understanding is that the "pecking order" on W107s is the same there as here: 560SL on top, then 350s and 450s, then 380 at the bottom.

I guess there was a 450 SLC 5.0 coupe that is considered quite desirable, but I've never seen one. Fairly rare.

fintail

Europe got I6 107 SLs that were never sold here - they tend to be more common and popular as they aren't as thirsty and are easier to maintain. A 560SL is a rarity there and would only be a private import, 500SL and 420SL (never sold here) would be the top dogs.

450SLC 5.0 is very rare - kind of a homologation special, lightweight (for a 107), variants were prepped for road racing.