I spotted an (insert obscure car name here) classic car today!

fintail

Saw a 57 Ford convertible with heavy patina out on the road today, also a couple nice El Caminos.

imidazol97

fintail said:

Saw a 57 Ford convertible with heavy patina out on the road today, also a couple nice El Caminos.

Skyliner or Starliner?

fintail

Top was down, I couldn't tell. It had an interesting finish though, a combination of what looked like dirt and surface rust,.

imidazol97 said:

<
Skyliner or Starliner?

berri

The Skyliner convertibles have a fat, overly large protruding back half profile to accommodate that folding hardtop, while the Starliner convertibles are conventional proportioned canvass tops I believe.

andre1969

Yeah, on the Skyliner, the rear deck is a bit higher, compared to a regular convertible. However, it may not be all that noticeable at a quick glance, unless you see them both, side by side.

IIRC, for 1959, Ford managed to make the rear deck a bit lower, so the car didn't look quite as cumbersome.

fintail

Yep, it was moving at ~35mph in an oncoming lane, I didn't notice the proportions.

I was more amazed at the finish on the car, kind of cool to see one looking like that vs over-restored.

andre1969 said:

Yeah, on the Skyliner, the rear deck is a bit higher, compared to a regular convertible. However, it may not be all that noticeable at a quick glance, unless you see them both, side by side.

IIRC, for 1959, Ford managed to make the rear deck a bit lower, so the car didn't look quite as cumbersome.

imidazol97

> Yep, it was moving at ~35mph in an oncoming lane, I didn't notice the proportions.
I was more amazed at the finish on the car, kind of cool to see one looking like that vs over-restored.
Yeah, on the Skyliner, the rear deck is a bit higher, compared to a regular convertible. However, it may not be all that noticeable at a quick glance, unless you see them both, side by side.
IIRC, for 1959, Ford managed to make the rear deck a bit lower, so the car didn't look quite as cumbersome.

I asked because the '57 Skyliners are rare. I've seen one at the car shows that I recall. I've seen 4-5 '59s. Don't recall any '58s.

When a car goes by, I find it hard to catch all the facets that make it special. I wish I could take pictures but I'm always driving. I travel I70 to Columbus because my son's at OSU. I enjoy watching the cars go by in the other direction, some driven, but most on small carriers with 2 or 3 cars. Often there are classics in those groups. Other carriers are moving used vehicles to/from the auctions. There must be a big one in Columbus.

texases

Well, here's a new use for dashcams - documenting old and new vehicle sightings!

isellhondas

Not to be picky (really) but those were Sunliners in those days.

andre1969

imidazol97 said:

>

I asked because the '57 Skyliners are rare. I've seen one at the car shows that I recall. I've seen 4-5 '59s. Don't recall any '58s.

The Skyliners always have a good turnout at the Ford show in Carlisle, PA. Here's a '58 that I snapped a pic of back in 2006...



I just noticed; I've gotten really lazy about uploading my old car pics. I haven't uploaded Ford show pics since 2008!

Anyway, from what I remember, the '57 and '59 both seemed to have a good showing of Skyliners, and fewer for '58. The 1957 had the highest production, but the '57 Ford in general was poorly built, so a lot of them rusted away. The '58's weren't much better, and sold in much fewer numbers. In 1959, Ford had a pretty big resurgence in sales, but the Skyliner fell off again. However, the '59's were better built, so I think they have a better survival rate than the '57. I think a lot of people really go for the more formal, Thunderbird-inspired look of the '59 as well.

As for production figures, it looks like they made 20,766 Skyliners in 1957, 14,713 in 1958, and 12,915 in 1959.

All things considered, I think the Skyliner was pretty inexpensive, when you factor in how complicated it was. In 1957, a Skyliner started at $2942, compared to $2505 for a regular Fairlane 500 convertible. Of course, with options the price went up fast. My grandparents bought a '57 Fairlane 500 4-door hardtop, which had a base price of $2404, but I remember Granddad saying that sucker was around $3500, optioned up.

I think the Skyliner came with a standard 272 V-8, whereas the other models would have had a 223 6-cyl standard. So, part of that increase in price was having a standard V-8 engine. I believe a 292 and then a 312 were optional.

imidazol97

andre1969 said:

The Skyliners always have a good turnout at the Ford show in Carlisle, PA. Here's a '58 that I snapped a pic of back in 2006...

As for production figures, it looks like they made 20,766 Skyliners in 1957, 14,713 in 1958, and 12,915 in 1959

Thanks for the production numbers. That explains my sighting ratios. The 57's and 58's rusted here in the midwest especially with all the salt used even in those years.

A few years back there was a convention in this area of the Skyliner group. I don't know if it was state or regional or national. I didn't go. Should have.

fintail

Way back in the late 60s, long before I was born my mother had a 59 Skyliner. Of course, it was just an old used car back then. I think she has a story of how she hit it with a tractor. It was replaced with a 61 Impala convertible, and then she moved on to her first new car, a Beetle, which my dad installed a Porsche 912 engine.

toomanyfumes

Saw a Fiero the other day, black, with the hood up on the side of the freeway.

kyfdx

imidazol97 said:

> Yep, it was moving at ~35mph in an oncoming lane, I didn't notice the proportions.
I was more amazed at the finish on the car, kind of cool to see one looking like that vs over-restored.
Yeah, on the Skyliner, the rear deck is a bit higher, compared to a regular convertible. However, it may not be all that noticeable at a quick glance, unless you see them both, side by side.
IIRC, for 1959, Ford managed to make the rear deck a bit lower, so the car didn't look quite as cumbersome.

I asked because the '57 Skyliners are rare. I've seen one at the car shows that I recall. I've seen 4-5 '59s. Don't recall any '58s.

When a car goes by, I find it hard to catch all the facets that make it special. I wish I could take pictures but I'm always driving. I travel I70 to Columbus because my son's at OSU. I enjoy watching the cars go by in the other direction, some driven, but most on small carriers with 2 or 3 cars. Often there are classics in those groups. Other carriers are moving used vehicles to/from the auctions. There must be a big one in Columbus.

There is a big auction in Grove City, on the Southwest side of town..

explorerx4

@toomanyfumes, Did the Fiero have a flat tire or were they standing behind the car?

lemko

fintail said:

Way back in the late 60s, long before I was born my mother had a 59 Skyliner. Of course, it was just an old used car back then. I think she has a story of how she hit it with a tractor. It was replaced with a 61 Impala convertible, and then she moved on to her first new car, a Beetle, which my dad installed a Porsche 912 engine.

My Uncle Johnny bought a 1957 Ford Skyliner new but had so many problems with the retractable top that he traded it for a new 1959 Chevrolet Impala.

fintail

There were a few oddities hanging around the shop/garage when I picked up the fintail today: 57 Golden Hawk, round headlight Avanti with Supercharged badge, brand new looking late run 380SL

toomanyfumes

No, the young driver was standing alongside the car, the little hood behind the back window was up, but at least there was no smoke or fire. Speaking of fire, on my way back, there was a Chevy Trailblazer, completely burned out, being loaded on a flatbed.

stickguy

outside a local bar/grill that we had dinner at, a 1949 Ford convertible. With the top down. Looked very clean. And very out of place, just parked among the modern cars!

looked like this, but more stock and dark colored.

stickguy

jj

stickguy

also, street parked in the same town, a Porsche. Not sure what year, but I think mid-80s? Orange, with a rollbar taking up the back seat. No graphics, so not sure if it was something special, or just an owner that really worried about rolling over! In any case, it was gorgeous. I wanted it. Bad.

andys120

A flat-bed truck appeared at our town dump ur..recycling center carrying a 1960s Dodge Monaco two dr h/t. It looked in restorable condition with all trim and original wheel covers but definitely needed work.

It was a big car and the tiny (13"?) wheels looked abit silly on it. It looked like a white version of this 1965 Monaco>


I know little about these but I'll bet some guys were disappointed he didn't leave it at the dump.

andre1969

14" would have been standard on the '65-68 Polara/Monaco. '65-66 probably carried it off a bit better, as the '67's porked up a bit, even though they stayed on the same wheelbase...121 or 122" IIRC. That pic you posted is a '65, I think. I kinda like them. They have a tough, all-business look about them. They lack the beauty of, say, a '65 Pontiac, or the pretense of a '65 Mercury. And, other than the longer wheelbase, there's really nothing about them that, IMO, tells the customer that it's supposed to be a more prestigious car than a Plymouth Fury. In fact, I think the Fury, with its stacked headlights, looks like a more prestigious car...these things just look like enlarged intermediates.

I don't think Dodge was really strong in the full-sized car market by this time. Plymouth made a big comeback with the Fury in '65. But Dodge's strength lied with the compact Dart and midsized Coronet. The big Dodges were usually priced about on par with a base Newport, as well, so many buyers simply went with the prestige of the Chrysler name. Why buy a Dodge when the Chrysler was about the same price? That was the same strategy that killed off DeSoto towards the end, when Chrysler moved the Windsor downscale and then came out with the Newport.

berri

I was a teenager back in those days and it seemed that the only reason Dodge stuck around back then was trucks. If anyone back then thought a model would go away like Desoto, the betting would have been Dodge, not Plymouth. How time changes things!

andre1969

I think Dodge started lucking out in the 1970's. By then, it seemed like if a cheaper model came out, Dodge and Plymouth would get it, but if a nicer model came out, it would be Dodge and Chrysler. So Plymouth started getting starved of nicer models, while Dodge got the best of both worlds.

You're right though...having the trucks under the Dodge name is probably a big factor in saving them, versus Plymouth, when the time came to let one of them go. Especially since, by that time, there was a lot of profit in trucks.

texases

Two today - an Alfa GTV (mid '80s) and a Triumph Stag, sounded/looked in good shape.

ab348

Up here in Canada, Chrysler-Plymouth dealers had a line of trucks to sell called "Fargo" that were re-badged Dodge trucks.

Dodge was a bit caught in the middle because Plymouth was one of the "low-priced three", supposedly competing with Chevy and Ford, while Dodge was supposed to be a more upmarket car, competing with Pontiac, maybe Olds, and Mercury at times. But it didn't always work out that way. However, Dad's '71 Monaco was very competitive with those medium-priced cars.

oldbearcat

I took my 48 Chevy to a little local car show here today. A beautifully restored 1956 Chrysler Imperial was there. The car was perfect, and, took the first place award.

Regards:
Oldengineer

roadburner

Saw a clean 914 with the Decor Group.

andre1969

ab348 said:

Dodge was a bit caught in the middle because Plymouth was one of the "low-priced three", supposedly competing with Chevy and Ford, while Dodge was supposed to be a more upmarket car, competing with Pontiac, maybe Olds, and Mercury at times. But it didn't always work out that way. However, Dad's '71 Monaco was very competitive with those medium-priced cars.

Traditionally, I usually looked at Dodge's chief competition as Pontiac and Mercury. However, in 1957 Mercury went upscale a bit, to make way for Edsel. Once Edsel went away, Mercury moved back downscale for '61. However, I always thought Dodge took a big hit in prestige for 1960, when the Dart lineup replaced the Coronet. It was priced about the same as Plymouth, and matched Plymouth's Savoy/Belvedere/Fury lineup with its own Seneca/Pioneer/Phoenix line.

The Dart was actually a smash hit for '60, and managed to outsell the full-sized Plymouths. The only reason Plymouth as a whole outsold Dodge was because of the compact Valiant lineup. Dodge would get the rebadged Lancer for '61, but Dodge compacts really didn't take off until '63, when the compact Dart came out.

However, the Dart was smaller than the Coronet that had come before, and had a lower base price. The only thing Dodge really had left that would compete with a Pontiac was the Matador/Polara, but they only sold about 45,000 of those combined for '60. For '61 it was only the Polara, and it sold poorly, and did even worse for '62 when they were hastily shrunken, and they had to bring in the Dodge 880 at the last minute to capture a few big car sales.

Ever since then, big cars just didn't seem to factor in as heavily for Dodge as they did for Pontiac and Mercury, even though their top models could be very nice.

hpmctorque

"The Dart was actually a smash hit for '60, and managed to outsell the full-sized Plymouths. The only reason Plymouth as a whole outsold Dodge was because of the compact Valiant lineup."

Unlike the Falcon and Corvair, which were Ford and Chevy models from the get-go, the 1960 Valiant was a new Chrysler Corp. brand initially, sold through Chrysler-Plymouth dealers, It wasn't called the Plymouth Valiant, and wasn't formally a Plymouth model. It was simply a Valiant, like a Plymouth was a Plymouth. The Valiant became a Plymouth model subsequently, but I can't recall whether it was for the '61, '62 or '63 model year.

My mother bought a '60 (V200?) sedan and kept it for several years. It was an exceptionally good car for its day; rugged as could be, durable, solid build, low maintenance, good performer for a compact, and it handled and steered well. Although it cost a little more than the Falcon and Corvair, it was worth every nickel. The main downside, compared with the competition, was poor fit and, to a lesser extent, finish.

andre1969

Just out of curiosity, do you remember how that Valiant was registered and titled? I know Chrysler tried marketing it as its own brand, but production statistics always combine the Valiant with the rest of the Plymouth lineup.

I've also wondered if Imperials, from 1955-75, get titled and registered as "Chryslers" or "Imperials"?

Chrysler tried to start spinning Ram off as its own brand for 2012, I think. I know my truck was referred to as simply a "Ram" and the only place it says "Dodge" on it is on the dash in the center, where the little coin tray is on top. For 2013, they changed that to say "Ram", as well. Even though it was marketed as simply "Ram", the registration and title of my truck say "Dodge". I wonder if the newer ones get registered as "Ram" though?

On a similar note, weren't Scions titled and registered as "Toyota" for awhile? For all I know, maybe they still are?

laurasdada

On the Mass Pike, a Subaru SVX, a Saab 9-3 with the license, "Sweedy" and a "Goldfinger" era Rolls Royce.

robr2

Parked in a driveway up the street was a 1976 Olds 442 in a teal green. It's a survivor and I knew it was a 1976 because the vanity plate read "ITSA 76

hpmctorque

andre1969 said:

Just out of curiosity, do you remember how that Valiant was registered and titled?

That's an excellent question because it would support or refute whether Valiant had a model connection with Plymouth when it was introduced, as it did later, but I don't know how it was registered and titled.

hpmctorque

I've also wondered if Imperials, from 1955-75, get titled and registered as "Chryslers" or "Imperials"?

Chrysler tried to start spinning Ram off as its own brand for 2012, I think. I know my truck was referred to as simply a "Ram" and the only place it says "Dodge" on it is on the dash in the center, where the little coin tray is on top. For 2013, they changed that to say "Ram", as well. Even though it was marketed as simply "Ram", the registration and title of my truck say "Dodge". I wonder if the newer ones get registered as "Ram" though?

On a similar note, weren't Scions titled and registered as "Toyota" for awhile? For all I know, maybe they still are?

Someone at Allpar should know the answer regarding the Imperial, during the years it was marketed as Chrysler Corps' luxury brand, rather than a Chrysler model. Allpar should also be able to answer your question regarding the Ram.

The branding link between Scion and Toyota is confusing to me, if Scions are titled and registered as Toyotas. A Toyota/Scion dealer should be able to answer how Scions are currently titled and registered.

stickguy

I had a 2005 Scion tC. Did not keep it all that long, and have no clue at this point what NJ put on the registration!

hpmctorque

stickguy said:

I had a 2005 Scion tC. Did not keep it all that long, and have no clue at this point what NJ put on the registration!

What caused you to not keep your tC very long? Just wondering because, being a Toyota I assume it was reliable.

stickguy

well, my kids kept growing, and having the 2 door with a small back seat just did not work all that well. Plus, I never really liked it all that much once I spent time driving it. So, I took advantage of strong resale and flipped it for an Accord 1.5 years later.

andre1969

I spotted this old beast, stopped at a traffic light, on my way back to work from lunch...


I was expecting it to take off like a slug, but it moved out a lot quicker than the Outback that was in front of me! And it didn't lay down *too* much of a black smokescreen as it did so

texases

Once you add 'turbo' to 'diesel', it accelerates pretty well (except for the smoke).

fintail

1981+, in that color that represented maybe 50% of units sold in the US. Definitelty not a garage queen - missing trim, rust, grime around fuel filler. Probably has 300K+ on it, and if listed for sale at a reasonable price, would generate many calls. The definition of a cult car.

andre1969 said:

I spotted this old beast, stopped at a traffic light, on my way back to work from lunch...


I was expecting it to take off like a slug, but it moved out a lot quicker than the Outback that was in front of me! And it didn't lay down *too* much of a black smokescreen as it did so

fintail

Recent sightings: 944 cabrio, unusual. Also an E30 M3 that was anything but stock - E30s seem to have a lifestyle built around them now. An old school AMG pair of W202 C43 and W210 E55 rounded it out, along with a nice icy blue lemko-style Fleetwood.

stickguy

Driving this am near my house. Like a normal car. A black 1940 Packard (I guess 1940 because the plate was "harv40". Imposing yet elegant car. Weird to just see it out in traffic. Looked like new.

jwm40517

I have never tried to post a link to something, not sure how to. I saw an ebay listing #331330068884 that is worth a look. It is a completely original looking 78 Chevette with an aluminum head 427 big block Chevy and a narrowed 12 bolt Chevy rear. It does not have huge tires and is a true "sleeper". Looks like a complete original, you would have to raise hood or crawl under it to see modifications.

imidazol97

jwm40517 said:

I have never tried to post a link to something, not sure how to. I saw an ebay listing #331330068884

To copy a link, the quickest is just to select the whole address in the URL line in your browser, copy that line, and click here in your post to paste it. Usually the whole line of the address turns blue for copying when I click into the URL the first time.

Nice find.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/331330068884?ru=http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40%7CR40&_sacat=0&_nkw=331330068884&_rdc=1

stickguy

Amazing

ab348

Ho-lee sh******t.

I cannot imagine what that thing would be like to drive. Or to stop.

stickguy

Like a fast,nines heavy chevette. But probably nit that baf

fintail

That Chevette is insane, and cool. I wonder it if can pop a wheelie.

On the spotted car subject, today in downtown Bellevue I saw a nice red 1st gen Riviera. That was soon topped by something - this:



This pic was taken at a local concours a few years ago. It was driving on Bellevue Way . Pretty crazy.