Ford Escape Hybrid

ateixeira

RX-8 would seem like too much of a low volume car to apply that to. It would be risky to say the least.

-juice

baggs32

Not many Mazdas are exaclty high volume anyway. As long as they can share something with Ford they can make it work. I would expect to see a hybrid Mazda6 someday too given that Ford already stated that the Fusion, using the Mazda6 platform, will come in a hybrid flavor.

Take that a little further and you might see other Mazda6 based vehicles offered as hybrids. The next Lincoln Aviator and a Ford variant. Possibly a Volvo or two. Just to name a few.

It seems to me that a lot of hybrid competition is going to be out there in the next couple of years so experimenting with an RX-8 hybrid just doesn't seem all that off the wall to me.

ateixeira

I guess they can hedge their bets if they wanted to start slowly.

-juice

midnightcowboy

Actually becuase of the lower than advertised Horsepower, the lousy gas mileage, te fact that burning a quart of oil or so every 1,000 miles is normal, the RX8 flopped and is being heavily discounted, especailly the automatic version.

I agree with you, Ateixeira, the RX-8 is currently much to low of volume for a hybrid version. And the sad thing is the RX-8 volume will go lower,if it survives at all even though it corners almost as good as a go-kart!

YMMV,

MidCow

ANT14

Ironically the RX-7 is selling better than the beloved Miata. IT has beat company expectation in sales as well, so it's a long way before it can be called a flop. Not intended to be a high volume vehicle, or brand for that matter, but such niche vehicles are manufacturered to showcase other ideas and evolutions possibly used in other vehicles along the line...

midnightcowboy

I assume you meant the newer RX-8 instead of the older discontinued RX-7. I am not sure where you are located, but in Houston they are stacked up sitting on the dealers lots, every color both manual and auto. They are selling for up to $8,000 of MSRP. And that is the starting price before negotiations. I call that a flop, but your definition of a "flop" might be different. Or your location might have a higher demand.

Anyway the rotary engine is not very fuel efficient and deos not seem like a good match for a hybrid version.

YMMV,
MidCow

ANT14

Yes RX8 I ment... They could be stacked up at certain lots in certain cities, but are moving well elsewhere, I'm just going with companies initial sales target, and sales for the past year, and monthly sales year to date.

Let's take note, dealerships are many times required to buy a certain number of a specific model upon introduction. If it sells or doesn't all depends upon the city/market they are in. If it doesn't, they could trade with another dealer that IS selling them, to push it off their lots and make way for something they might be selling better of.

Flop is, when your aiming for 100K (Nissan Titan) and your not even close because they over estimated their market.

sherpadude

yea that mpg/mph thing always gets me :-> anyway i hould add ... he 44mpg is driving very conservatively ..

rfruth

The cheapest isn't the least expensive ? - snip - Like Pulsar digital watches, the cost of hybrid powertrains will come down over time, Ford Motor Co. CEO Bill Ford says.

http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=101199

stevedebi

"The cheapest isn't the least expensive ? - snip - Like Pulsar digital watches, the cost of hybrid powertrains will come down over time, Ford Motor Co. CEO Bill Ford says."

Possibly true, but I never trust anything that man says, after his claim that Ford was going to go "green" very quickly back in the late 1990's. Still waiting for it to happen, while I follow that Expedition down the road...

ateixeira

He said that right before the Excursion came out, didn't he?

Even though the Escape hybrid is out, let's compare volume and look at CAFE...

-juice

rfruth

I agree Bill Ford is lots of talk & not much action, the tribscape hybrid should have been available right after the 1973 Oil Embargo, are we really a few years into the 21 st century and just getting around to hyrbids (don't answer that) perhaps you have seen Bluewater's take on it ...

http://www.bluewaternetwork.org/

xcel

Hi Stevedebi:

___You do know the Ford Excursion is greener then the Toyota Sequoia and Land Cruiser, right? You also know Ford has sold more PZEV’s then any other company IIRC, right?

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes
___2000 Honda Insight 5-speed #203 - 92.5 lmpg

gagrice

I am not a Ford fan, but this bluewater bunch are Nut cases in my book. I agree with XCEL, that Toyota has gotten a lot positive of Green Media attention that they do not deserve.

gagrice

Show me a Toyota P/U with the kind of fuel economy being seen in 40 degree temperatures from the following link?

Another factor. The Toyota Tacoma has the worst rollover rating of any PU sold in the USA....
I'll take the Ranger..

stevedebi

"___You do know the Ford Excursion is greener then the Toyota Sequoia and Land Cruiser, right? You also know Ford has sold more PZEV’s then any other company IIRC, right?"

Oh, don't get me started on "green" Toyota Motor Corp...

jrsy1971

I'm looking to move from an 02' Jeep liberty to an '05 Hybrid Escape.

Does anybody here actually have one? Pros? Cons?

Thanks

toycash

Just wondering what you might be basing that statement on, since the EPA says the Sequoia puts out fewer greenhouse gas emissions, and also is available in California emission states with a ULEV-II rating, which the Ford does not offer.

xcel

Hi Toycash:

___Look up the 2004 Toyota Sequoia 2WD or 4WD over at the EPA’s fuel economy site: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/findacar.htm. Both receive a big ** 0 ** on their emissions scores. There isn’t a Ford or GM that scores this bad!

___It looks like the just listed 2005’s finally cleaned up there act. Have you seen any 2005 Sequoia’s around your locale recently or are they all the older ones?

___Good Luck

___Wayne R. Gerdes

explorerx4

'05 sequoia rates 2 out of 10 for greenhouse gas emissions. escape hev rates an 8, prius rates a 10.

callmedrfill

   
   We're talking real world mileage, people. Just like every other engine on Earth, from Prius Hybrid to Ram Hemi, you ain't gittin' EPa numbers on economy. Or are you?

   After several real world road test, including Edmunds.com and MT SUV of the Year, the Escape seems more likely to get you around 25-26 MPG than 30+ overall. Same with a Prius, getting 45 MPG instead of 50+.

   Yet, see tests of 4-cylinder SUV's like Rav4, and CRV. They are testing around 22-23 MPG overall!

   So is the $30k Escape Hybrid really all it's hyped up to be? Is it worth $30k ONLY if it get 30MPG? Is it too heavy, at 3800+ lbs, over 500-600 lbs. more than the others?

    Is it giving "V6 performance"? It doesn't tow like a V6. It's 0-60 runs are more like a Rav4 than like a Escape V6, which also has lost some speed on it's fastball, with a weight gain over the years. It has the torque to "feel" like a six, which is probably what Ford means. But MT says it runs out of steam at midrange.

  Is it better to save $8-10k and get a Rav4/CRV, and lose only 3-4 MPG, and get similar performance? Which is the better value?

   DrFill

rfruth

I am one of those people wondering what took so long - snip - By industry standards, it takes an American automaker about three years to turn out a new car. That fact may have people wondering why it's taken Ford five years and 100 engineers to successfully install a hybrid drivetrain in an existing vehicle, the Escape SUV. Whatever the reason, the baby is a year overdue but has finally arrived.

http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_- id=8777&page_number=1

newdriver2

Did Ford buy the Hybrid technology from Toyota? Or Ford developed by themselves?

ateixeira

DrFill: actually, the efficiency champ among small SUVs is the 2005 Forester. They just added throttle-by-wire and now the manuals get 23/30 and the automatics 22/30.

I average 25.1 mpg with my '98 Forester, which was rated 21/27. So with that kind of improvement I'd move into the high 20s.

You could save $10 grand if you got an X model instead of the Escape hybrid. About $6-7 grand even if you got a Premium/heated leather/moonroof.

Subaru sells a PZEV Outback in California, but not a Forester. The Outback gets 23/28 (22/28 with auto) and is rated PZEV.

So there are plenty of alternatives out there.

Ford kinda cheated and compares hybrid prices to its V6, but I agree, performance is closer to the Escape I4, and then you're looking at an $8000 premium for the hybrid.

-juice

electrictroy

It DID take a long time. The Japanese introduced the first hybrid in 97, and in USA 1999. It's taken 7 years for Americans to catch up.

Meanwhile the Japanese have *5*:
Old Prius
New Prius
Insight
Civic
Accord

America is falling behind.

ateixeira

GM has the pickup, which I know is a mild hybrid, but still, so was the first Prius IIRC.

So US has two now and more soon.

-juice

baggs32

If you're going to complain about the domestics lagging behind you should complain about Ford being the only one really trying to catch up. GM and DCX are "thinking" about adding hybrids or "working on other technologies".

Within the next year or two, Ford is adding a hybrid Mariner and Tribute (both are built in the same plant as the Escape) as well as the Fusion hybrid (I'm guessing the Merc variation will get it too) to the mix. Rumors of a hybrid Freestyle have also popped up. Who knows what else? Any Lincolns or PAG vehicles?

Also, Ford took so long to get the Escape out because they wanted to do it themselves and do it right. That takes time no matter who you are.

toycash

Ford developed it themselves, although they somehow came up with an answer that was so close to Toyota's system, that they had to buy patent rights from Toyota.

The Sequoias we have are all 2005s and that's what I am basing the emission comparison on for both.

gagrice

The Sequoias we have are all 2005s and that's what I am basing the emission comparison on for both.

Isn't the same V8 used in all three large SUVs? Why is the Land Cruiser and LX470 still in the pollution toilet?

electrictroy

The GM and other American carmakers "working on other technologies" are planning to import their diesel cars from Europe in 2006. Ditto Ford with their diesel Focus.

I guess they'd rather use proven technology (diesel) than unproven hybrid technology?

baggs32

What I meant was GM is working on hydrogen power as they think it's the best bet for the future. They don't really seem to believe in hybrids just yet.

I don't really know what DCX is working on but I've never heard of a hybrid being developed by them either. That's not to say they aren't though.

I have nothing against diesel, in fact I prefer the traditional ICE over anything else, but it's never going to be as clean as a hybrid system.

gagrice

I don't really know what DCX is working on but I've never heard of a hybrid being developed by them either.

Chrysler may have started on their hybrid before Toyota. Their first 1997 ESX was an attempt to build an Intrepid size car that got 80 mpg. The last model built the ESX3 is capable of 72 mpg. They do not feel people will pay the additional $7500 for a hybrid Intrepid. Chrysler would not approve until they reached the 80 mpg goal.

http://www.allpar.com/model/intrepid-esx3.html

electrictroy

1997 = Chrysler prototype
1997 = Toyota PRODUCTION vehicle (Old Prius)

Toyota was always ahead on the curve.

ateixeira

They gambled on hybrids and for the most part got lucky. Back then it seemed risky, on in 2003 or 2004 did hybrids seem like a sure bet.

If Toyota focused on hybrids instead of diesels for Europe, that probably seems like a dumb idea now.

-juice

gagrice

In sales terms the Prius will only manage a paltry few thousand and will be commercially eclipsed by the other finalists - Citroen C4, Ford Focus, Vauxhall Astra, Renault Modus, Peugeot 407 and the BMW 1-series.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/lifestyle/motoring/story.jsp?st- ory=584161

rfruth

the very next sentence says "But its[the Prius] significance, in the words of Autocar Editor Steve Cropley, is that it demonstrates the way forward."

Ford has the same opportunity with the Escape

dw438

I've got an Escape Hybrid and have had it for about three weeks. It's one super vehicle. Still having trouble getting used to zero noise at red lights. I've got up to 35 mph on electricity alone, which is pretty cool. And I've been pretty close to the EPA mileage charts, as my mileage in-city (and it's New York City) has been higher than highway mileage.
The truck is dark gray metallic, and has side curtain air bags, cargo cover, and 115v plug as options. Is there a con? Still seeing how long it needs to warm up in the mornings before it hits critical mass for all-electric power. Also to see how it performs in cold weather. It's garaged at night, but is parked outdoors during business hours. Best part about the deal? Purchased at invoice, Uncle Sam and Uncle George (Pataki) tax breaks that put cost of vehicle in realm of '05 XLT.

koker

how did you manage to get it at invoice. The dealers in my area are all getting msrp.

gtmaguire

What dealership did you go to?

explorerx4

after the tax incentives. (2k federal, ny ?)

realpro47

I'm out in LI and I'm going to test drive the Escape on Tuesday, I'd like to know which dealer did you use to get it at invoice? for that saving I'll go within a hundred miles radius.

ateixeira

I imagine a diesel hybrid would be the next big thing for Europe. Noone has one yet.

Perhaps it will be tough. Diesels aren't as happy with shutting down as often, at every light for instance.

Maybe only if it's warm enough.

-juice

daysailer

"shut down" its IC engine to realize improved efficiency.

ateixeira

That's how they get peak efficiency in an urban setting.

I can see a mild hybrid diesel getting a small improvement, but not a dramatic one like the Prius.

-juice

daysailer

a "dramatic one" like the Insight.

ateixeira

Doesn't that vehicle still shut down the ICE when you sit at a stop light?

That's my concern. Diesels would probably prefer to stay idling just to stay warm.

-juice

electrictroy

The Lupo turns itself off at stops. Don't see any problems there.

ateixeira

If they've sorted that out, a diesel/electric would be ideal for Europe, not a gas/electric.

40 mpg is not big deal over there, many cars match that already.

-juice

rfruth

No Chevy for Chevy ... - snip - Actor Chevy Chase and wife Jayni, both ardent environmentalists, take a look at their newly purchased 2005 Ford Escape Hybrid. An innovator and trend-setter in comedy, actor Chevy Chase and his wife Jayni, long-time environmentalists and founders of the Center for Environmental Education, are among the first customers in the East to own an Escape Hybrid, the first full-hybrid SUV to hit the road. The Westchester natives recently received their vehicle at a special ceremony at Smith Cairns Ford in Mount Kisco, New York.

http://media.ford.com/newsroom/feature_display.cfm?release=19373

dw438

You can get in touch with Van Bortel ford in Victor, NY But you'll have to drive 310 miles - to the Rochester area. A salesperson there honchoed a fleet sale to Kodak which went south, leaving him with 10 Hybrids,now at least minus mine. Easy to get to, just off the Thruway.
Also try McDaniel Ford in Hicksville LI. Did an order from them but in meantime got better immediate deal upstate, so canceled. They are good for service and have trained Hybrid techs.