I think anything below 34k would be good with the floormats included. I'm in Maryland and when I got my 325Ci, I got it for $2,200 below invoice with the floormats included. I would aim around $33,700. If that is the correct invoice, would you be interested in traveling to MAryland, or wuld that be too far?
What part of NE are you in? I'm South of Boston. THe dealer closest to me was one of the HIGHEST in regards to price. A little shopping, faxing, research... and I saved $2000 + from his price! Don't give up yet. EMAIL me for more detials, and put BMW in the subject area.
but 95k miles is alot. If it was me I would pass because the maintenance on a Bimmer is really high.See if all the maintenance work have been done at the right time. Also, do a carfax check to see if it was un an accident.
Just bought 330i, 2003, Gray, tan interior, Premium, xenon lights, $36,230 in Orange County. I drove the 325, and then made the mistake of driving the 330. I was hooked. This is a whole new experience in driving. I had Acura CL, 3.0, but the BMW is entirely different driving experience. I love the car.
Gonna pull the trigger on an 03 330i silver grey with black leatherette with cold weather,steptronic and moonroof floormats included for 34,000 plus tax,tags and license. What do you guys think?
This is my first time buying a BMW. I got a deal on a 2003 325i wagon for $34,995 (premium package, sports package, leather, xenon light, metallic paint) but I can't make up my mind about whether I should lease or buy. The dealer quoted me on a lease at 47% residual value and 1.85 money factor for 48 months. The interest rate would be about 4.5% if I buy it. Both deal is good I think but if I decide to keep the car than I would have to pay more buying off the lease.
I like the car and I don't mind keeping it. It's just many people told me that I should not lease because there may be problem with BMW after 4 or 5 years and it will cost a lot to fix. Also, the 3 series will have a new body style in 2005. Any suggestion? Anybody own a BMW for over 5 years?
It's just many people told me that I should not lease because there may be problem with BMW after 4 or 5 years and it will cost a lot to fix.
That's part of why I leased. If my bmw has problems over the next 3 years of my lease, I'll gladly part with it in 2006. I don't want to pay BMW bills.
Also, the 3 series will have a new body style in 2005. Any suggestion? Anybody own a BMW for over 5 years?
One more reason I leased. The next version looks ugly as sin but the power might be amazing.
Lastly, lease if you're getting a great deal. Current lease deals aren't that great on BMWs from what I've seen.
I edited my message and listed the lease deal I get. You're right BMW doesn't have a good deal but I was able to find a deal from Chase which is much better. Do you think the deal is ok?
I know what you mean but I never lease before and I need to warm up to the idea. I'd like to have no car payment for a while. So if the car is ok, I would like to keep it. Do you know if BMW has a lot of mechanic problem after 4 or 5 years?
I am waiting for the dealer to get the allocations to order a 330Ci with the specific options that I want. I want silver grey metallic exterior, grey interior, PP, SP, manual. The MSRP is $40970, invoice is $37505, and TMV is $40597. They offered it to me for $40470 w/ free floor mats. Do you think this is a good deal or the best I'll get out of them?
I live in CT, and I'm having a terrible experience trying to buy my first BMW, a 2004 330 convertible in triple black with cold/premium/sport pkgs, auto trans and xenons. The salesmen/saleswomen have been just plain rude when I've tried to negotiate a deal. According to a price report I just purchased from Consumer reports.org; Base/invoice MSRP $44,295/$40,530(inc.destination) Xenon $730/$ 800 Steptronic $1210/$ 1275 Cold Weather $685/$ 750 Premium $685/$ 750 Sport $730/$ 800 Totals: $48,835/$43,630
I called all 7 CT BMW dealers, and only one quoted me anything under MSRP @ 1,000 off (but he added in over $400 in training fees after the discount claiming that they had to be charged!), and one even quoted me over MSRP @ $49,500. Several said their integrity didn't allow them to deal off MSRP.
Can someone please tell me how, if at all, I can get a better deal on this car. I know it will probably have to be ordered, but I'm more than willing to pick it up out of state. Any help would be greatly appreciated, paying $5000 over invoice seems excessive. If there was a 2003 out there with this configuration, I would probably jump on it if the deal was better.
For what it's worth, I also found a certified 2001 330cic with the above options and 31,000 miles for $37,500. If this is a better deal, perhaps I should go with this car instead?
I closed the deal for 03 325i on Tue. (09/23), but I cannot go to sleep tonight. Sadly and heart break!! For auto/moonroof/HK audio/silver, I paid $30350, and the invoice price is $29365. I manufacturer ordered it in early July with $500 refundable deposit. When I negotiated the price, it was a bit above the TMV of Edmunds. When I checked the price 2-3 weeks back, it seems $100 higher than the TMV. Considering the sunk long waiting, I told myself I can bear the $100 lost.
When I went to pick up the car, I was too busy and too excited to make the final check on Edmunds (a huge mistake!!). I got suspicious when the dealer said he would take off the sale price $250 but gave me a lower trade in value (It is the same final # for me but I cannot understand his intention). Last night, I finally checked the Edmunds and saw now the TMV is $29028. Feel totally upset and deceived:-(
This is my first BMW, and I saved quite a long time just for fulfilling my always dream. Hate cannot enjoy the ownership. I only see the dealer’s smiling face.
I know it is partly my fault, but is “put up with it” is the only way to go on? Will anything be too late?
I just found out this board. I am grateful for your advice! (BTW, in Dallas, TX)
Forget about it. You made a deal you were happy with when you ordered your car. BMW added dealer incentives in September. There is no way you could have known that when you ordered. If you hadn't ordered, there is virtually no chance you would have found a car configured like yours, so you most likely would have had to pay more money for more options you didn't want. $1000 over invoice was a good deal when you made it, and the car is exactly what you wanted.
Wow, the dealer made $2500 profit on last years model ($1k over invoice plus $1500 incentive)...thats a ripoff. Your only leverage now is the BMWNA customer survey, hopefully you haven't filled it out yet. This survey is very important to the dealer as it determines the amount of holdback they get from BMWNA. Call the dealer back, tell them you know about the $1500 rebate and that you think it is VERY disingenuous of them to take you for such a ride on last year's model which will depreciate ANOTHER $2k as soon as the 04s hit the floors. Then, tell them that you know of the financial impact that a poor BMWNA survey will have on their dealership and that they need to rectify this if they expect to have you as a happy customer. I would ask for $750 back, with your fallback position of $500 (the car was a custom order after all). Do they have any accessories or parts that you might want, maybe they could trade you merchandise?
btw, I bought my 03 325i (not custom order) for $500 under invoice last week (9/15). Dealer made $1000.
He ordered a car, agreed to a price. They delivered the car he ordered, and he paid the agreed upon price. If he gets the dealer to give him any money back, it may be the first time in history. The $1500 dollars is not a rebate. It doesn't have his name on it. He may have made a mistake by not researching prices before taking delivery, but the dealer did nothing wrong or even unethical. They did exactly what was agreed upon.
I am in the same boat as you are. The incentive was announced the 2 weeks after I bought my car. It is a known fact that the longer you wait, the better the deal will get. I am sure that '03 325s that are still in a dealers' lot 2 months from now will sell a lot cheaper. But you will have to make compromises on color and options. You have got a good deal and a great car, so enjoy it. Don't try to win the contest of getting the best deal on earth. And what are the chances that the dealer would have given you all $1500 incentive money.
Agree with kyfdx. It was a fair deal. If the prices gone up would you have paid the dealer more than the agreed price. But again, if you manage to get money back by threatening to screw up the survey, would be a unethical but still a big win. And who are we talking about 'car dealers'. Most of them have taken the word 'ethics' out of their dictionary.
Last night, I finally checked the Edmunds and saw now the TMV is $29028. Feel totally upset and deceived:-(
Why do people always want the average price? The TMV is the mid-point of what people pay. don't you want to be well below the average?
Best bet...don't pick up the car. Demand your deposit back and tell them financially you can't make it in this harsh economic climate. They'll knock some dough off for sure.
Just remember you're still in control of the situation. The buyer has all the power.
He picked up the car Tuesday night. Do you guys like making people feel bad because they didn't get the best deal? You act like a $2500 profit for the dealer is the end of the earth, but just wait a couple months, and see if any current model BMW can be purchased for less than $2500 over invoice. There have been some incredible deals in the past six months, but thats not the norm for BMW. He got the exact car he wanted. Please let him enjoy it. He paid $30K for a new 3-series.. Thats way less than most people.
Sorry, read over about 10 of them fast. Sumimasen.
You act like a $2500 profit for the dealer is the end of the earth, but just wait a couple months, and see if any current model BMW can be purchased for less than $2500 over invoice.
Sorry, but I dislike that dealers make more than $200 or so on any car sale.
He got the exact car he wanted. Please let him enjoy it. He paid $30K for a new 3-series.. Thats way less than most people.
He's the one fretting over it. After I buy a car I accept everybody before and after me got a better deal. Such is life.
Forget about the difference. You were happy with the original deal, stay happy with it. You got a great deal (1000 over invoice) on a great car.
Blueguydotcom says that dealers should not make more than $200 on a car. Of course they should make money on a car, that is what they do! They have to pay for ads, employees, rent etc.. You can't do that on $200 a car. There are some dealers who are scumbags, but it doesn't sound like that description fits your dealer. The timing of the deal allowed him to make more money. That is what happens in between model years.
Actually, the advertising fees are build into the invoice price (they are called MACO fees and could be around $200). So, the dealer does not have to make additional money to pay for the adds.
I also live in CT and had very similar responses with the area dealers. I recently purchased a 2004 330CIC from a dealer about 3 hours away. Great experience. Send me an email if you want specific details.
Blueguydotcom says that dealers should not make more than $200 on a car. Of course they should make money on a car, that is what they do!
Oh so wrong. Dealerships make money off used car sales and service. Selling new vehicles is generally viewed as the least profitable portion of owning a stealership.
They have to pay for ads, employees, rent etc.. You can't do that on $200 a car.
Yes you can. Service and used sales easily make that up. Used sales are obscene. Trade in a 325i that cost you 35k a few months ago. You'll get in the high 20s for it and see it on the lot the next week for the low 30s. That's where the profit comes from.
There are some dealers who are scumbags, but it doesn't sound like that description fits your dealer.
I haven't dealt with my dealership really since I picked up my floormats the day after I bought my car. If I can extend never dealing with them again, I'll be delighted.
if you are not entirely against buying out of state and getting the car shipped for about $500, then you should try my dealer's salesman... email me for details, ksoman@hotmail.com. We bought our 2004 325 convertible back in May, it was infact one of the first 2004's to be delivered in the southwest US and we picked it up about $1000 under MSRP. My dealer didn't charge any prep or training or MACO fees. there was a 200 bucks documentation fee, but well you get some you give some...
on an average it is hard to get much money off convertibles, most get sold real fast and then considering we bough it back when the first 2004's came to the shores, i think the deal might be better now...
for a convertible and a brand new style, that's a great deal.
My mom is looking at the 325cic right now as we're trying to get her away from her 00 miata. I was vexed as to why she seemed to hate every vehicle I'd take her to (all convertibles). Any time she finished a test drive of a FWD convertible (say A4 or 9-3), she'd comment that the car "felt weird." Duh. I felt like getting a horsehair whip for myself. She's always driven RWD sports/performance cars.
I thought over the whole process, and I think I made a big mistake on not being careful enough at the final step. I could have renegotiated the price at the delivery point, but the long wait might make me too attached with this car and forget about the possible huge price change.
If I were not caring about getting a good/fair deal, I would have walked away with a car long time back and would have not spent so much time on searching (but I still did not see this broad). I think $2500+ profit is too much for a car, I don't bother to pay around $1000 over the cost but not $2500. The feeling of being taken advantage is not good.
Frankly, I feel intimated when dealing with the dealer, maybe because the only car I want is 325i. I just wrote an email to the dealer with hinting the survey, and I am waiting for his response. If I was him, I would do sth. At this moment, even some small gesture will make a customer like me feel better. But I am not the dealer and cannot be a dealer.
Meanwhile, I am learning to enjoy my car, and maybe forgetting about I paid $1300+ over average (hope I did not make the average artificially increases)
In the end you're probably going to love your car so much you'll wonder why you worried about the money. Before buying my car a 540i owner told me, "There's nothing like going out to the garage every morning and seeing a car you love."
I gotta agree. Cost be damned, I've never owned a car before that's pure unfettered fun.
I didn't realize that ad money was a separate fee. Sorry. However, to say that dealers don't deserve to make money on a new car and make enough on used cars and service doesn't make sense to me. If I were a car dealer or any other sales industry I would want to make money on all sales. That is why I would be in buisness. This is a capatalist society. Free market rules. That is why you pay near MSRP on a Volvo XC90 and you can get $9000 off a GMC Envoy. The dealer takes on risk by starting a buisness, laying out money for cars, rent, benefits, etc... He deserves to be rewarded for his risk. The return on his investment depends on his product and the market.
I agree used cars are obscene. But the dealer has to take on the hassle of fixing some cars up, selling them, and paying the people who sell the cars. The mark up is why you can get great deals on used cars if you bargain well. It is all a game.
I have to agree with those who have said "enjoy you car and have fun!" Besides, who said you would get ANY of the incentive on a car that was ordered anyway? My understanding is that is for the cars that are produced and sitting on the lots. Does anyone have any input on this? So, it seems you may be getting upset over something that was not available for YOUR ordered car.
To Blue: your last post was much nicer on this poor guy than some of the prior ones! lol I know you are the king of discounts... (which I envy) BUT not everyone will get the lowest price. Timing is everything! If the dealers only made a true $200 profit on ALL cars, guess what.. you would be driving your dream car (the AMC Gremlin in your profile!!!) You silly boy!
Yes, the dealers are sleazy...you buy a $30k car and you think they would stop playing games, but it seems to be in their blood, from the lowly Geo Metro up to the premium Benz dealership.
If invoice is 30,885, true dealer cost after trunk money is 29,385. How much is reasonable profit for them to make on this car? Depends on the demand for your particular model and the buying climate in your town. I think $1000 profit on last years model is reasonable...$500 profit would be a very good deal.
So here is what you do: tell the dealer that you'll pay 29,985 including floormats and ALL dealer fees, plus tax/tag/title (those fees should be set by the state). They will say "boo hoo, we're not making any money, you are trying to rob us blind...etc". So then you come back with 30,385 and the same stipulations as before. You tell them that they will make $1000, plus the BMWNA holdback from your dealer survey, plus they will not have to pay another month's carrying cost on the car of $200 (the finance charge that they pay to the manufacturer). If they don't take your offer, write it down on your business card, give it to them, say "when you want to close the deal, call me" and then walk out of the dealership. I bet they will call within 24 hours. If you want to get a good deal, you HAVE to walk away, sometimes more than once so they know you're serious.
Also, dont let your guard down once they take your offer. They will still try to charge you for VIN etching, lowball your trade in, screw around with your lease rate, etc etc.
Two things - There are a couple of dealerships within 30 miles from my house. Should I go to all of them (that's kind of tedious especially because they like to waste an hour before they will talk about price)? Also, I am planning to pay in full cash, can I use that to my advantage?
I didn't realize that ad money was a separate fee. Sorry. However, to say that dealers don't deserve to make money on a new car and make enough on used cars and service doesn't make sense to me. If I were a car dealer or any other sales industry I would want to make money on all sales.
As would I, but...
That is why I would be in buisness. This is a capatalist society. Free market rules.
Right again. Doesn't mean I have to want, appreciate or embrace the notion of paying a dealership thousands or even hudnreds of dollars for providing me with nothing. If dealerships gave you something in return, fine. But really, I'd be happier to just hand a secretary my ID, get the keys to the type of vehicle I want to try and then take it for a spin. Heck, i'd pay to test drive alone. Salesmen do not add anything to the buying decision.
Oops, strike that, they make me not want to buy from a dealership.
The dealer takes on risk by starting a buisness, laying out money for cars, rent, benefits, etc... He deserves to be rewarded for his risk.
Not by default! He must earn my money. I don't care if he has costs. That's part of business. My part in the equation is to buy for the lowest price, ideally costing him money in the process.
I enjoy my bimmer but I wouldn't shed a tear if I read the dealership i bought from went out of business. And I had a fine buying experience with them. But to me, they're nothing more than another retailer looking to bilk me. and not offering anything for their mark up.
(1)You need to widen your search. One reason is that the dealers a little farther away sometimes look at you as a "found" sale since you normally would not have walked in. At the very least, the deal you get from another dealer far away, may motivate the local guy to move on the price. One I guy helped here was already to go out state... and checked onelast time with the local guy, who came way down on the price. (2)However, you do not GO to any dealership in person! Check out my prior posts on the 5 board prices... and search by "hoopsref, fightingchance.com, incentives..." Bottom line: You CAN fax these dealers and get your best deal with the proper method and info... For example, you can tell the dealer who is cryin' poor mouth on "low profit" that you know that BMW gives additional profits to the dealers (in place of the traditonal "holdbacks") by way of their Consumer Satisfaction Index (CSI). The CSI is derived from the surveys that BMW conducts from new buyers after the sale of the car. They get kick backs on not just your car, but others that they sell. You let the dealer know that you plan on giving them the highest marks (5's) so he can maximize his profits... I know it has even helped some posters after they thought they had a good price!!! Supply & demand will play a part in this of course, but if you do a little work you might be pleasantly surprised. Case in point... I saved $2000 over the local guy in July when he only gave me $1000 of the $4K incentive off the invoice, NOT the MSRP!!!!. I had 6 or more dealers willing to give me $3K off the invoice!
I am talking to a dealer and he wants $38,380 for a 330xi with premium, automatic transmission, metallic paint, and cold weather packagae. Can someone tell me if this is a good deal. He said it was $900 over Euro delivery invoice. Any help would be appreciated.
I'm about to buy my first BMW in the next few days -- a 2003 330xi. I'm having a difficult time determining exactly what I should pay using the information from Edmunds.com and Consumer Reports. Particularly when I compare it to the wholesale invoice provided by the dealer.
The dealer's invoice is $39,505 including options, MACO and Training & Systems (what the heck is that?).
Edmunds.com's TMV indicates $37,568. Is the difference the cash mfr to dealer incentive? Does the TMV include MACO and T&S?
Using Consumer reports I come out to $38,095 but that is because the beginning wholesale invoice is $1737 greater than Edmunds.com's beginning TMV. All the options,etc are all the same.
I have been reading many of the posted messages and it seems you all have such insight into BMW -- any help you can provide is greatly appreciated.
I'm not sure what the factory to dealer amount is on the 330's but this is what I did when I bought mine. For example, if the incentive amount is 2k and since your car's invoice is 39,505 I would subtract 2k from the invoice amount. That total would be 37,505. That would be my starting point. I got mine for 2.2k under invoice when there was a 2.5k incentive. So If I were you I would say 37,800.
Everyone wants to get the lowest price when buying a new car, You say you could care less if the dealership you purchased a car from goes out of buisness even if you enjoyed doing buisness with them.
- Do you feel this way about all retail or just auto dealerships?
- Do you think everything you buy should cost less than what the retailer purchased it for?
I'm not knocking you, I'm just curious.
By the way, your profile says that the car you own now is a 75 Pacer and your dream car is a 78 Gremlin is this correct or are you just having fun with your profile?
and is not the right discussion for that type of exchange ... please check out the ongoing conversations on our Smart Shopper board. That theme is being and has been discussed all over the place there!
I hope I am posting this question in the right place, but I need all of your opinions on this one. I test drove a beautiful topaz blue 2003 325i this afternoon. With options, the MSRP is $36,020 and invoice is $33,050. Taking into account that it is a 2003 and that the manufacturer to dealer rebate is $1500, I made an initial offer of $31,850. Of course, the salesman laughed. I then went up to $32,450 and he countered at $33,500. Then it was my turn to laugh and I left. Given the earlier posts, I think $32,450 ($600 under invoice) was a good deal for him . . . maybe even too good. The salesman called my house twice before I got home . . . I suspect he is willing to accept my last price of $32,450. Have I shot myself in the foot by upping my price to $32,450 . . . should I have held firm at $31,850?
I think you should have stuck your ground at $31,850. Thtas a dealer profit of $300. That is the same profit amount when I bought my 325ci a month ago.I think the dealer profit should be no more than $500. WHere do you live? Are 325i's that much in demand there?
You pretty much confirmed what I suspected. I knew $31,850 was $300 profit for the dealer, and I thought that was fair. But you know how it is . . . your in that little office and you open your big mouth before you can stop yourself. I don't feel too lousy about it, though. We're only talking about $300 more, which is not too bad, just not the best deal. I am in east Tennessee. To be honest, I'm not sure what the demand is for 325i's here, but I see them all over town. TMV for the car is $32,900.
Comments
Don't give up yet. EMAIL me for more detials, and put BMW in the subject area.
The exterior and interior are great. The ride was great; though I did not have a chance to let her "rip". NO WARRANTY. (+95k miles).
Are my "fears" unfounded?
Any advice will be grately appreciated.
Same thing happened to me. Once I got into a 330i, there was no getting me out.
I like the car and I don't mind keeping it. It's just many people told me that I should not lease because there may be problem with BMW after 4 or 5 years and it will cost a lot to fix. Also, the 3 series will have a new body style in 2005. Any suggestion? Anybody own a BMW for over 5 years?
That's part of why I leased. If my bmw has problems over the next 3 years of my lease, I'll gladly part with it in 2006. I don't want to pay BMW bills.
Also, the 3 series will have a new body style in 2005. Any suggestion? Anybody own a BMW for over 5 years?
One more reason I leased. The next version looks ugly as sin but the power might be amazing.
Lastly, lease if you're getting a great deal. Current lease deals aren't that great on BMWs from what I've seen.
I know what you mean but I never lease before and I need to warm up to the idea. I'd like to have no car payment for a while. So if the car is ok, I would like to keep it. Do you know if BMW has a lot of mechanic problem after 4 or 5 years?
Base/invoice MSRP $44,295/$40,530(inc.destination)
Xenon $730/$ 800
Steptronic $1210/$ 1275
Cold Weather $685/$ 750
Premium $685/$ 750
Sport $730/$ 800
Totals: $48,835/$43,630
I called all 7 CT BMW dealers, and only one quoted me anything under MSRP @ 1,000 off (but he added in over $400 in training fees after the discount claiming that they had to be charged!), and one even quoted me over MSRP @ $49,500. Several said their integrity didn't allow them to deal off MSRP.
Can someone please tell me how, if at all, I can get a better deal on this car. I know it will probably have to be ordered, but I'm more than willing to pick it up out of state. Any help would be greatly appreciated, paying $5000 over invoice seems excessive. If there was a 2003 out there with this configuration, I would probably jump on it if the deal was better.
For what it's worth, I also found a certified 2001 330cic with the above options and 31,000 miles for $37,500. If this is a better deal, perhaps I should go with this car instead?
Thank you for your assistance and opinions,
Keith
When I went to pick up the car, I was too busy and too excited to make the final check on Edmunds (a huge mistake!!). I got suspicious when the dealer said he would take off the sale price $250 but gave me a lower trade in value (It is the same final # for me but I cannot understand his intention). Last night, I finally checked the Edmunds and saw now the TMV is $29028. Feel totally upset and deceived:-(
This is my first BMW, and I saved quite a long time just for fulfilling my always dream. Hate cannot enjoy the ownership. I only see the dealer’s smiling face.
I know it is partly my fault, but is “put up with it” is the only way to go on? Will anything be too late?
I just found out this board. I am grateful for your advice! (BTW, in Dallas, TX)
regards,
kyfdx
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btw, I bought my 03 325i (not custom order) for $500 under invoice last week (9/15). Dealer made $1000.
regards,
kyfdx
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Why do people always want the average price? The TMV is the mid-point of what people pay. don't you want to be well below the average?
Best bet...don't pick up the car. Demand your deposit back and tell them financially you can't make it in this harsh economic climate. They'll knock some dough off for sure.
Just remember you're still in control of the situation. The buyer has all the power.
regards,
kyfdx
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Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
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You act like a $2500 profit for the dealer is the end of the earth, but just wait a couple months, and see if any current model BMW can be purchased for less than $2500 over invoice.
Sorry, but I dislike that dealers make more than $200 or so on any car sale.
He got the exact car he wanted. Please let him enjoy it. He paid $30K for a new 3-series.. Thats way less than most people.
He's the one fretting over it. After I buy a car I accept everybody before and after me got a better deal. Such is life.
Blueguydotcom says that dealers should not make more than $200 on a car. Of course they should make money on a car, that is what they do! They have to pay for ads, employees, rent etc.. You can't do that on $200 a car. There are some dealers who are scumbags, but it doesn't sound like that description fits your dealer. The timing of the deal allowed him to make more money. That is what happens in between model years.
Enjoy your car. Don't lose sleep over it.
Oh so wrong. Dealerships make money off used car sales and service. Selling new vehicles is generally viewed as the least profitable portion of owning a stealership.
They have to pay for ads, employees, rent etc.. You can't do that on $200 a car.
Yes you can. Service and used sales easily make that up. Used sales are obscene. Trade in a 325i that cost you 35k a few months ago. You'll get in the high 20s for it and see it on the lot the next week for the low 30s. That's where the profit comes from.
There are some dealers who are scumbags, but it doesn't sound like that description fits your dealer.
I haven't dealt with my dealership really since I picked up my floormats the day after I bought my car. If I can extend never dealing with them again, I'll be delighted.
ksso
ksso
My mom is looking at the 325cic right now as we're trying to get her away from her 00 miata. I was vexed as to why she seemed to hate every vehicle I'd take her to (all convertibles). Any time she finished a test drive of a FWD convertible (say A4 or 9-3), she'd comment that the car "felt weird." Duh. I felt like getting a horsehair whip for myself. She's always driven RWD sports/performance cars.
Fruit doesn't fall far from the tree I guess...
This will be first new bmw since '94. Edmund's tmv says this car is barely discounted from msrp. Is that what I should expect in this area?
I thought over the whole process, and I think I made a big mistake on not being careful enough at the final step. I could have renegotiated the price at the delivery point, but the long wait might make me too attached with this car and forget about the possible huge price change.
If I were not caring about getting a good/fair deal, I would have walked away with a car long time back and would have not spent so much time on searching (but I still did not see this broad). I think $2500+ profit is too much for a car, I don't bother to pay around $1000 over the cost but not $2500. The feeling of being taken advantage is not good.
Frankly, I feel intimated when dealing with the dealer, maybe because the only car I want is 325i. I just wrote an email to the dealer with hinting the survey, and I am waiting for his response. If I was him, I would do sth. At this moment, even some small gesture will make a customer like me feel better. But I am not the dealer and cannot be a dealer.
Meanwhile, I am learning to enjoy my car, and maybe forgetting about I paid $1300+ over average (hope I did not make the average artificially increases)
I gotta agree. Cost be damned, I've never owned a car before that's pure unfettered fun.
I agree used cars are obscene. But the dealer has to take on the hassle of fixing some cars up, selling them, and paying the people who sell the cars. The mark up is why you can get great deals on used cars if you bargain well. It is all a game.
To Blue: your last post was much nicer on this poor guy than some of the prior ones!
If invoice is 30,885, true dealer cost after trunk money is 29,385. How much is reasonable profit for them to make on this car? Depends on the demand for your particular model and the buying climate in your town. I think $1000 profit on last years model is reasonable...$500 profit would be a very good deal.
So here is what you do: tell the dealer that you'll pay 29,985 including floormats and ALL dealer fees, plus tax/tag/title (those fees should be set by the state). They will say "boo hoo, we're not making any money, you are trying to rob us blind...etc". So then you come back with 30,385 and the same stipulations as before. You tell them that they will make $1000, plus the BMWNA holdback from your dealer survey, plus they will not have to pay another month's carrying cost on the car of $200 (the finance charge that they pay to the manufacturer). If they don't take your offer, write it down on your business card, give it to them, say "when you want to close the deal, call me" and then walk out of the dealership. I bet they will call within 24 hours. If you want to get a good deal, you HAVE to walk away, sometimes more than once so they know you're serious.
Also, dont let your guard down once they take your offer. They will still try to charge you for VIN etching, lowball your trade in, screw around with your lease rate, etc etc.
As would I, but...
That is why I would be in buisness. This is a capatalist society. Free market rules.
Right again. Doesn't mean I have to want, appreciate or embrace the notion of paying a dealership thousands or even hudnreds of dollars for providing me with nothing. If dealerships gave you something in return, fine. But really, I'd be happier to just hand a secretary my ID, get the keys to the type of vehicle I want to try and then take it for a spin. Heck, i'd pay to test drive alone. Salesmen do not add anything to the buying decision.
Oops, strike that, they make me not want to buy from a dealership.
The dealer takes on risk by starting a buisness, laying out money for cars, rent, benefits, etc... He deserves to be rewarded for his risk.
Not by default! He must earn my money. I don't care if he has costs. That's part of business. My part in the equation is to buy for the lowest price, ideally costing him money in the process.
I enjoy my bimmer but I wouldn't shed a tear if I read the dealership i bought from went out of business. And I had a fine buying experience with them. But to me, they're nothing more than another retailer looking to bilk me. and not offering anything for their mark up.
(2)However, you do not GO to any dealership in person! Check out my prior posts on the 5 board prices... and search by "hoopsref, fightingchance.com, incentives..."
Bottom line: You CAN fax these dealers and get your best deal with the proper method and info...
For example, you can tell the dealer who is cryin' poor mouth on "low profit" that you know that BMW gives additional profits to the dealers (in place of the traditonal "holdbacks") by way of their Consumer Satisfaction Index (CSI). The CSI is derived from the surveys that BMW conducts from new buyers after the sale of the car. They get kick backs on not just your car, but others that they sell. You let the dealer know that you plan on giving them the highest marks (5's) so he can maximize his profits... I know it has even helped some posters after they thought they had a good price!!! Supply & demand will play a part in this of course, but if you do a little work you might be pleasantly surprised.
Case in point... I saved $2000 over the local guy in July when he only gave me $1000 of the $4K incentive off the invoice, NOT the MSRP!!!!. I had 6 or more dealers willing to give me $3K off the invoice!
Thanks
I'm looking to buy the 330xi with:
Cold Weather PKG
Premium Pkg
Automatic Transmission
Metallic Paint
The dealer's invoice is $39,505 including options, MACO and Training & Systems (what the heck is that?).
Edmunds.com's TMV indicates $37,568. Is the difference the cash mfr to dealer incentive? Does the TMV include MACO and T&S?
Using Consumer reports I come out to $38,095 but that is because the beginning wholesale invoice is $1737 greater than Edmunds.com's beginning TMV. All the options,etc are all the same.
I have been reading many of the posted messages and it seems you all have such insight into BMW -- any help you can provide is greatly appreciated.
Pay what you feel is fair. Personally, I'd shoot for $300-500 over invoice, then add the rebate to get the price to a grand or two below invoice.
TMV shows the average of what people in your area paid last month. Figure lower than that will be the TMV in October. And do you want to be average?
- Do you feel this way about all retail or just auto dealerships?
- Do you think everything you buy should cost less than what the retailer purchased it for?
I'm not knocking you, I'm just curious.
By the way, your profile says that the car you own now is a 75 Pacer and your dream car is a 78 Gremlin is this correct or are you just having fun with your profile?
Thanks,