2013 and earlier BMW 3-Series Prices Paid and Buying Experience

blueguydotcom

Yes you are. In fact, I don't think that's even allowed by BMW. I always thought 4 points was the highest they could go. Are you going without a security deposit too?

Also they can shave at least 500-1000 more off that car's price and still make a decent profit.

david22

That's about 2K more than I would think of paying. Those cars took a decent dip due to the drivetrain changes on the 07's. I owned an 06 330i similarly equipped but with a manual and NAV and Comfort Access. Personally I will never get a BMW without Com Acc. Nothing like walking up to your "locked" car and just pulling the handle, getting in, and pushing start. Also allows you to open the trunk without the remote being depressed, just pull the trunk open. Also, if the car has only heated seats and not the CW Pkg, this means you will not get split folding rear seats. As for the SP. It's personal taste. The non SP car is limited to 130mph and is a softer ride. Has 17" ugly rims (IMHO) instead of beautifully styled 18's with Z rated tires. I found the SP to not be harsh at all and the 155 top speed is much more preferable to the 130 limit. This car will go from 70-130 like its nothing, even 140, 150 takes little effort. If you want to know why just look under the car. It's all buttoned up like a Ferrari, thus no turbulence. I regularly got mine up to 155 to 160 leaving guys on crotch rockets shaking their heads, and giving me the inevitable thumbs up after reality slapped them in the face. Hope that helps...

bmwhip

A couple of questions,

1. How do I get the contact info for the internet sales department? carsdirect.com gives me one contact for my address.

2. When you guys say 500 above invoice is a good deal, do you mean the invoice on edmunds.com or the edmunds invoice PLUS MACO & training (~560).

3. Why are the internet sales people more willing to give better deals?

thanks for your help

iiask

So this is what I did, I cut copy and pasted the information blueguydotcom gave me and sent it to my dealer, and this is the response he sent back!!

"It is great that we all do our homework when it comes to any major purchases.

1. Your base price is way off, fees attached to the invoice are part of the invoice, they are non negotiable.
2. All lease rates are month to month and apply only to state side orders, regardless of order dates.
3. You will have price protection.
4. The lease rates are non- negotiable ( finance will receive a flat fee ). That rate will not cost you 4k over the lease period. ( Please check your source ).
5. Your savings are set by the manufactory. BMW of Houston North will receive a flat fee for handling the paperwork. Nobody makes 10k from your purchase and 4k from your finance.

I am not sure where you received your information but It is terribly incorrect.

I will have Heather cancel your paperwork and I will call The Euro Dept to have them cancel your order.

Please reference ( Edmunds.com, KBB.com, AAA.com etc. ). These site are a lot more reliable.

Thanks for your time."

Now what should I do????

blueguydotcom

The lease rates are well known. Everything we've told you regarding negotiating lease, lease rate lock-in, ED pricing is all true.

I'd suggest you visit the ED forum http://bimmerfest.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=25 at Bimmerfest.com. The guys there can hook you up with a Houston dealer who will not jerk you around like this.

If you're doing ED and he's charging ED MSRP he's making an obscene amount of money on the deal. It's unfortunate salesmen like that exist as they give the manufacturer and the profession a bad name.

azteco469

So should the MACO and Training Service fees be included in the MSRP of the vehicle? Or are they considered additional costs? Ths makes a difference in the monthly payments for my lease. Thanks in advance.

blueguydotcom

Ask to see the invoice and it should be listed directly. Kyfdx, wanna step in here as you seem to have direct access to this info?

If you do a car through ED neither MACO nor Training is listed on the invoice.

azteco469

Ok so here is where I was confused. The salesman sent me a "Vehicle Inquiy Report" which listed all the MSRP prices. In this report there is a line item for MACO and Training service fees but they are listed as "N/C" for no cost. When I spoke to him regarding the negotiated price he told me there would be a $400 MACO and $180 Training fee but they would give me the car at $500 over invoice. This is why I thought they were simply trying to pad the price to make more money on the deal.

I honestly don't mind paying it but I am more concerned to know if it is part of the MSRP which will affect my monthly on the lease. Thanks again.

kyfdx

Okay.. lets see what we can make of this..

First... re-negotiating after you've agreed to a deal might be a bit difficult.. Usually, after someone has already made their deal, I suggest learning to love it, and come back next time for advice, before you buy..

But, anyway.. we'll take a stab at it..

$48320 US MSRP
$41500 approx. ED invoice
$43000 Selling price ($1500 over is reasonable anywhere)
$43625 CAP cost (selling price + $625 acq.fee)
58% residual
.00200 money factor (.0017 + .0003 ED bump)
Payment = $577/mo.+ tax..
Due at signing = 1st payment, security deposit, tax, title/license fees
($577, $600, $2750, $300) about $4200 total.

**I get $2750 for tax by multiplying 6.25% by the CAP cost, which I believe is correct for Texas**

You don't have to pay the tax upfront... you can roll it into the CAP cost (it still gets paid upfront by the bank). If you roll the $2750 of tax into the lease, it raises the payment to $659/mo.

The main differences between your lease and this scenario?
a) $2500 less on selling price
b) your MF marked up .0001
c) No security deposit on your lease.. .00015 MF waiver fee

I think your $3721 upfront includes the 1st payment and title/license fees.. but, the real cost difference between your deal and this scenario is about $4000.

Is it worth trashing your deal? Have you already bought non-refundable plane tickets? Lodging reservations, etc, etc, etc.? Do you know for sure that you can get the deal that I've laid out? Are you willing to fly out of town to pick up your car, if you can get the deal?

Lots of questions..

Hope this helps a little..
kyfdx

PS: Either way, you picked a really nice car!!

blueguydotcom

Ky, you forgot that all ED lease deals get an extra 0.0003 tacked on to the money factor. Of course, BMW FS pays month two of the lease.

If that's so, her dealer marked up her MF just 1 point, so that's not so bad. What is bad, that selling price. Yikes.

kyfdx

Yes... I caught it when you did.. just updated the figures...

Nothing gets past you guys...

imran62781

want to sell my car with 11500 miles on it. got a job in the ny area so i dont need it much. options are steptronic, heated seats, power seats, black on black with leatherette. kbb says private prop value is $33K. Should I be happy if i can get this? What should I shoot for? Thanks for any help.

oxaccu

I was given this quote for 36 months/15k/$3k down

MSRP: $42175
Price: $40398
Residual: 63%
(Rate: 2.3?)
Acq. Fee: 775

Payment: $529

Any good?

iiask

I have not made any travel accomodations yet. Where is this deal available? I've read several post on bimmerfest.com referencing the monopoly that BMW has in Houston and the inability to negotiate MSRP (whether euro or stateside sales). At this point in time it wouldn't hurt to cancel this order and start all over again. My salesman in Houston seems to think that he has me caught between a rock and a hard place possibly because my pickup date is April 12th. I can't possibly miss something I haven't had yet. I contacted the Euro Delivery center and asked if this specific car could be reassigned to another dealer and they said it wasn't possible. Even they said I should be receiving at least a 7% discount from the US MSRP.

My salesman also failed to tell me that sales tax roll it into the CAP cost. He said that for Texas all sales tax and TT&L had to be paid upfront!

I will more than likely cancel this order and look for something better. If you know of any dealers who can give me the same deal specified by kyfdx, than don't hesitate to let me know.

Thanks guys for your help!!!

jtla

Glad to hear you have not made any travel arrangement. That makes things much less complicated. We all feel for you. I think your are better off canceling the order than going through the (very) bad deal, and certainly not with that salesman's attitude.

IMO, Ky's scenario is even conservative as he put $1,500 over ED invoice. $1,000 over should be very doable. With $4,000 to $4,500 saving over a 3-year lease, we are talking about 20% difference in monthly payment.

There is abundant information regarding ED in the link blueguy provided. You will find a lot of very knowledgeable people willing to offer advice and help. There are also sponsoring dealers specialized in ED.

Best of luck.

lindawa

Posted a message a few days ago about leasing a 2007 328i sedan through irvine bmw. I see through the bmwusa web site that they are offering a lease special. The lease offer is at msrp of $34,450 with $2500 down $329 month $350 security $3179 due at signing. Is this good offer? If it is a special can i negotiate msrp? The car i want is not available through irvine bmw but the internet guy said it is on the ship and will be available later. I asked the msrp and he said $34,450. I said that i thought the currnet msrp was $32,400. He said there was a price increase. I just want the stripped model. He said he could give it to me for $33,090. That's 1360 off msrp. He said i would have to put a deposit on the car to hold it. Would that deposit be refundable if i find a better deal in the meantime. This is all new to me....Don't want to be taken advantage of. Sorry about the long post. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

tphssenior

The 328 sedan in S. Calif. is easily going for $500 over invoice and you should be able to find a dealer that will give you the buy rate on the lease. In short, that would mean a much better deal than the MSRP offer on the BMW website. PM me if you would like the names of a few reputable dealers with good pricing or search the previous posts.

wrobbins8047

Lindawa contact BMW of Plam Springs Internet dept. I was dealing with Irvine as well, until I contact Palm Springs, I sent out offers to about 30 dealers, and they were the only ones that was up front and straight with me, and the best deal. I ordered mine to get what I really wanted. PM me for names.

lindawa

Got a lease offer today and would like input....

MSRP 34450
Selling price 32855
MF .00125
security deposit 350
residual .64
Total out of pocket
$3780
10k miles/36 months
monthy payment including tax 336.92
This is in southern california......

I think it is good but i could be wrong....

appreciate any input...

wrobbins8047

From the out of pocket what is applied to the lease? Is the deposit applied to the out of pocket or into the lease? I would try to get the least I could to get out the door. Any up front payments could be lost if the car gets stolen or wrecked.

lindawa

everything is to the lease except for $1800.....First time leasing a bmw alway bought them before. The interest rate i had on my 325 was on 2.9%. Now it is 6.9% for new car. I just can't afford the payment and cash down to buy a new car. The other option is to buy a used 2005 but would like a new car....thanks for your input...

jtla

The selling price is exactly $500 over dealer invoice, and the MF is BMWFS buy rate. Make sure that the lease acquisition fee is $625 and there is no other bogus fees. The $3,780 out-of-pocket looks about right, so that seems to be the case. I think it is a very decent deal.

One comment on the lease structure: If you can afford additional $50 in monthly payment, I would recommend you put 7 additional security deposits instead of in cap cost reduction. With 7 MSD, you can reduce MF by .00049 and get the deposit back at lease-end.

lindawa

Thanks...i appreciate it as i keep looking at the number and it seems ok to me but not an expert....i will into the addition security deposits...thanks very much for your reply...

blueguydotcom

If a salesman says they don't do MSDs or won't do them, push on it. Salespeople always seem interested in keeping your MF high.

wrobbins8047

Hello lindawa, contact me at a temp address @ edmunds@peninsulaite.com to get my real email address for details about your deal.

Will

jtla

You are welcome. A few more comments:
1. If you do MSD, each deposit will be $400 instead of $350 because the monthly payment will be in the higher bracket.
2. You mentioned early on that you have a trade. You can always get more by selling it privately. However, if you do plan to trade, do you homework for the fair value before getting in. Use kbb.com or get a quote from CarMax. I would hate to see you get a good deal and then give it all back on your trade-in.

blueguydotcom

i would add - if you must trade-in (always a bad move) ask for the cash on the trade-in. Then fold the cash into MSDs. Don't let them talk you into paying down your cap cost.

jtla

Absolutely.

kjenkins696

328xi wagon
manual transmission
heated seats
power seats
rear sunshades
metallic paint
MSRP: 39,095
Negotiated price: 35,860
MF: .00216 (reduced from .00265 with 7 MSD's)
12k/yr.
$24,238 residual (62%)
$825 acquisition fee (which dealer says is mandatory from BMW)
$452.62/month with $3266 out of pocket to cover 5% MD taxes, tags, and acq. fee

Good deal? I love the negotiated price, but I'm uncertain about the MF and the acq. fee. Given the low price, however, I'm wondering if I can do much better.

Thanks,
Kevin

blueguydotcom

Dealer bumped your acquisition fee by $200.

Also his MF is marked up the full 4 points. He's getting you on the backend of the deal.

Additionally, the residual on a 328xi wagon for 12k miles a year is 63%.

kjenkins696

Thanks

I sensed the same things, but I wonder if I can really do any better than this. Seems like they're either going to get me on the negotiated price or their going to get me with the MF, fees, and residual.

I guess I just need to speak with more dealers (though this was substantially better than what I was offered at another dealer a few weeks back)

blueguydotcom

Don't get offers...make them. check bmwusa and get the email addresses for dealers. Email them

Write down exactly what you want, exactly what the invoice is and send that plus the dealer profit.

Mention the MF, acquisition fees, etc.

kjenkins696

That's a great point, thanks.

bmwhip

Hello,

At the end of the lease, I understand there is typically an option to buy the car. Does anyone know how the buy-option price is calculated? If I lease the car with a .58 residual, is the price then .58 of the selling price or MSRP?

Thanks

blueguydotcom

Yep. Rarely will the car be worth more than the residual though.

maturin

Hello,

I’m looking to lease a 2007 328i Sedan and have questions. Any help would be very much appreciated.

Regarding ED, I’ve read in numerous posts that BMW pays the second payment of the lease. I don’t see this information on the BMW web site. Is this something I need to ask for?

If I roll all my taxes into the lease, will BMW be helping to pay my taxes by paying that second payment on a ED lease?

When I look at the monthly lease specials on the BMW web site, is the acquisition fee already included in that payment amount? The text of the ads indicate that it is, but I want to be sure.

For those who are also in Chicago, do you have suggestions on the best approaches to avoiding the onerous taxation that occurs on both the full sales price and the “use tax” which I’ve heard applies to the monthly payment amount?

I’ve been “preparing” to but a BMW sedan since the launch of the E46. You’d think I’d know all this by now!

Thanks for help with any of these questions.

-DJB

tphssenior

It is 58% of the MSRP.

blueguydotcom

BMW FS automatically pays your second lease payment.

Yes about taxes.

Ignore BMW lease specials - they're worthless. When you order a car via ED a few things to remember:

MSRP - this is used to figure out your residual. It's vitally important that they use US MSRP for figuring your residual.

Negotiated ED price - this should be about 4500-5500 off MSRP. This is very important. Fine the European Delivery Invoice pricing. The ED pricing on the BMW site is a major ripoff and only scummy dealers will try to use that on.

When you do ED, contact the dealership by email. Layout the total cost of the car using european delivery invoice pricing. Be sure to include the normal shipping charge. At the end clearly write down the dealer profit (usually $1000).

Finally, get in writing what the acquisition fees will be, how many points above the buy rate the dealer will mark up the money factor (Note: all BMW ED leases get 0.0003 points added automatically). Get them to note ever fee they will charge you.

Finally, when you lease by ED you can use which lease rate is the best during the construction of your vehicle up to the 14 days before pickup. 14 days before pickup you will finalize the lease and make your first month's payment.

Visit the european delivery forum here and at bimmerfest.com/forums for more info on ED.

brutiger

blueguydotcom,

I've been looking into Leasing a 335i Coupe. I'm new here and noticed you keep posting the latest Residual Value and Money Factors. Are these from BMW Finacial? The one dealer I have spoken to so far mentioned 0.0025 (6%). How can I back your numbers up, so that I have a leg to stand on with the dealer?

I think I should be asking the dealer for the following:

$1500 off MSRP (w/Prem, Sport and Comfort)
36 mo/10k mi
MF = 0.0017
Residual = 61%

Does this seem like I'm asking for too much or not enough?

Thanks in advance.

blueguydotcom

If it's a normal purchase, yes your numbers are legit. Call a few BMW dealerships and ask for their lease numbers. Eventually one might be honest. We can get this info from dealer sources; bimmerfest has a forum devoted to salespeople helping bimmerfest members.

BMW's lease factors for the 335i coupe:

24 mo/15k mi – Residual Value 68% of MSRP – .00170 Money Factor Buy Rate
36 mo/15k mi – Residual Value 58% of MSRP – .00170 Money Factor Buy Rate

A dealer claiming 0.0025 is marking that up to a level that goes beyond anything BMW even allows (0.0004); unless you're talking about a european delivery (0.0003 extra) and no security deposit (0.0001 extra).

brutiger

Thank you for the information and I will fill everybody in how it goes.

kjenkins696

Blueguydotcom,
I've seen you mention several times that when proposing a deal, we should list all of the components we want and also not the dealer profit. How are we supposed to know what the profit is?

For example, the other day the dealer offered me a price that was below invoice but then jacked up the MF. They told me they wouldn't negotiate on the MF because that was how they were going to be making money on the deal. I wasn't sure how to respond.

So how do we know what to say the dealers' profit will be?
Thanks

blueguydotcom

You can find the pricing here for 3 series cars:

http://bimmerfest.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=99

As for the MF markup and profit. Do the math on a marked up MF v. $300 more in dealer profit. A high MF and overpriced acquisition price can cost you much more over the life of the lease.

leaseguide.com has a calculator you can use to figure a lease cost with different MFs.

kjenkins696

This is great, thanks so much. .

jharwood

I'm currently in the market to buy a new 328i with auto and power seats. Has anyone had any recent experiences in the Atlanta market purchasing 328i's? Edmunds and KBB do not reflect any significant movement off of MSRP and I'm trying to figure out what is a good/great deal for this market.

Thanks in advance.

plasma4u

Hi,

I've checked my credit score (FICO score) online before applying for the lease. Based on my FICO score, my credit rating was good (just below excellent). However, when the dealer ran my credit, I was put on a Tier 4. Does auto industry not use FICO score? I am very confused. Please help.

kyfdx

Hi, plasma4u...

This would be a good question to post here:

Credit Scores and Vehicle Financing

Try posting there, and see if anyone has the information you need.

regards,
kyfdx

wrobbins8047

I would go Invoice + 500 vs. 1500 of MSRP.

wrobbins8047

Figure up what the total cost over the full life time of your lease that you will be paying. Then compare to others...

brutiger

Yea, I will probably start at 500 over invoice. Hopefully I catch someone on the right day.