2013 and earlier BMW 3-Series Prices Paid and Buying Experience

delta737h

Michael,

My apologies! I'm glad you mentioned the 0.00180 money factor. It does seem high and I wouldn't be surprised if the dealer is earning reserves. Let me give you some history...

It used to be that dealers were compensated at lease end for writing a lease at a higher rate. The money was held in "reserve" until the end of the lease in case the lessee defaulted. I've been told that this has changed and that most fund providers send the dealer the reserve payment soon after the lease is booked. Reserves work in much the same way that mortgage loan points work. A 1% reserve level means the dealer earns 1% of the adjusted cap cost excluding the acquisition fee. The fund provider just isn't going to allow the dealer to earn reserves on their own fees. So, for example, if the adjusted cap excluding acquisition fee is 25,000 and the reserve level is 1%, the dealer earns $250.

My guess is that your 0.00180 MF has a 1% or 2% reserve level. The term, base rate or buy rate, means an interest rate or money factor with 0% reserves. I would ask the dealer for the money factor with 0% reserves. Be very specific. Many people will ask for the buy rate and guess what happens in many instances? Yup, they're often quoted a rate with reserves. Asking for the MF with 0% reserves pins them down AND it is an indication that you know something about car financing. Therefore, they're not as likely to BS. If the dealer refuses, simply deduct the amount of the reserves from the sell price. You may argue: If I deduct the reserves from the sell price, I'll end up with a different adjusted cap than the one I started with. Actually, this apparent dichotomy can be resolved with just a little bit of algebra. My TI 83/84 program actually captures reserve issues and I've used it to deduct reserves with moderate success.

Hope this helps.

John

mpm6821

John,

Thanks for taking the time to explain. For the most part, the reserve discussion makes sense until the last part...was pretty sure my head was going to explode! Thank god for TI's! Long story short, I emailed the dealer and asked for an adjusted rate w/o the built in reserve...we'll see what he comes back with.

Last question (hopefully) in reference to your earlier response. In order to capitalize the fee's, do they just get added to the Gross Capital Cost? Also, just to make sure I'm clear on the major fee's, these include:

1. Acquisition Fee
2. License/Title/Reg Fee
3. Doc Fee
4. MACO (BMW specific)
5. Training Fee (BMW specific)

Again...thanks!!!!

delta737h

Okay Michael, sorry about the last part. We'll ignore it. Here is what I have...

BMW 328i (w/options)

MSRP $36,270.00
Destination Charge $775.00
MSRP $37,045.00

Sell Price $35,680.00

Financed Amounts- TAXABLE ITEMS
1st payment 497.00
Acquisition Fee $625.00
Document Fee $499.00

Gross Capitalized Cost $37,301.00
Capitalized Cost Reduction $0.00
Adjusted Capitalized Cost $37,301.00

Residual (63%) $23,338.35

Money Factor 0.00180
Term (months) 36
Georgia Tax 7%

Monthly Lease Payment excluding tax $497.00
Monthly Lease Payment including tax $531.79

Charges Payable at Lease Origination
Security Deposit $550.00
License, Title, Registration Fee $39.00
Lemon Law Fee $3.00
Total Due at Lease Signing $592.00

Notice that I rolled (capitalized) the first payment into the lease. This means that you will be paying 35 payments of $497 each plus tax. Many dealers incorrectly compute the payment and they do it in two stages. The first stage is computed in the same way that one would ordinarily compute a lease payment without regard to the fact that it is being capitalized. Next, they'll include this payment as an amount finance and compute a new payment that is obviously different from the first. ALL payments must be identical. Next, they'll add this payment to the selling price claiming that this is the new sell price because they're making the first payment on your behalf. At this point, many people go with the flow but this makes me furious even though there is no financial harm. The sell price is sacred ground. Never ever adjust a sell price for any reason once it's established. Finally, the dearler proceeds to incorrectly complete the lease worksheet and lease agreement which makes me even more furious. If they're in this business, they darn well better be able to do things correctly. My paper addresses the issue capitalizing fees and 1st payment as well as tax consequences.

That said and, to keep things simple (come on, don't laugh), I elected to seperate the taxable items from the non-taxable items. I don't believe that the security deposit is subject to tax in Georgia. It shouldn't be taxable in any state. Note that the amounts financed are those items that are TAXABLE. Remember that Georgia sales tax will be levied on the resulting payment and so that payment can't include non-taxable items.

I constructed the proposal so that you would be paying the non-taxable items at lease signing.

Because the MF equates to an interest rate of about 4.32%, it's best to capitalize as much as possible. However, paying $592 up front isn't that big of a deal for most folks that tool around in BMWs.

At any rate, to give you an idea, that's how it would look. Remember, none of this is etched in stone. Some of these numbers (MF, doc fee) are very questionable as we discussed. The calculated values, however, are spot on.

John

realcrapper

Delta737h and I were corresponding and he is able to capitalize his security deposits in his home state (Ohio), but the dealer I'm dealing with in CA says it is not possible to do so.

So, I'm wondering, has anyone in California been able to roll their security deposit into the monthly lease payment?

blueguydotcom

At a Mini/BMW dealer last weekend they claimed they could only roll with BMW leases, not Mini ones. I'm in CA.

Of course he was lying about the Mini leases but it's telling that he said you can roll BMW leases into a higher MF in CA.

blueguydotcom

Those doc fees - Document Fee $499.00 - are totally bogus. Just bought a car last weekend with $55 doc fees (those included filing fees with the DMV!).

charlieliu

Thanks, Dr.

Another question, somebody told me from time to time, BMW sends car owners coupons/certificates worth $1000 towards buying a new BMW. Any truth to this?

Thanks.

jb_shin

I think I have seen a couple of these for M3. I don't remember the amount but it was a certificate toward purchase of an M3.

blueguydotcom

It was well over 1k for the M3. But yeah it happens. If you're a member of BMWCCA you also can get a rebate on any new or CPO'd BMW. The 3 series is $500. The 5 series nets 1k.

realcrapper

I just called BMWFS and told me that they DEFINITELY CAN'T roll the security deposit into the monthly payment (which is the same thing my dealer is telling me). However, I'm still not convinced.

So, I'll ask again, is there anyone out there who's leased a BMW from a California dealer and gotten their Security Deposit(s) rolled into the monthly payment? Any details would be great.

blueguydotcom

Ive seen it on bimmerfest.com. Check the ask-a-dealer forum.

dhanley

"I just called BMWFS and told me that they DEFINITELY CAN'T roll the security deposit into the monthly payment (which is the same thing my dealer is telling me). However, I'm still not convinced."

I suppose the dealer could raise the cap cost, take the money, and make several security deposits this way. Not so bad from the consumer point of view, if you can.

realcrapper

From LeaseCompare on bimmerfest

Residuals posted are for 15K miles/year. Add 2% to Residual for 12k mi/yr and 3% for 10k mi/yr on all terms

2007 BMW 328Ci Coupe
24 Month – Residual 68% of MSRP – .00140 Base Rate
36 Month – Residual 58% of MSRP – .00140 Base Rate

2007 BMW 328xi Coupe
24 Month – Residual 68% of MSRP – .00140 Base Rate
36 Month – Residual 58% of MSRP – .00140 Base Rate

2007 BMW 328i Sedan
24 Month – Residual 71% of MSRP – .00140 Base Rate
36 Month – Residual 61% of MSRP – .00140 Base Rate

2007 BMW 328xi Sedan
24 Month – Residual 71% of MSRP – .00190 Base Rate
36 Month – Residual 61% of MSRP – .00190 Base Rate

2007 BMW 328i Wagon
24 Month – Residual 70% of MSRP – .00240 Base Rate
36 Month – Residual 60% of MSRP – .00240 Base Rate

2007 BMW 328xi Wagon
24 Month – Residual 70% of MSRP – .00240 Base Rate
36 Month – Residual 60% of MSRP – .00240 Base Rate

2007 BMW 328i Convertible
24 Month – Residual 71% of MSRP – .00320 Base Rate
36 Month – Residual 60% of MSRP – .00320 Base Rate

2007 BMW 335i Coupe
24 Month – Residual 68% of MSRP – .00185 Base Rate
36 Month – Residual 58% of MSRP – .00185 Base Rate

2007 BMW 335i Sedan
24 Month – Residual 71% of MSRP – .00175 Base Rate
36 Month – Residual 61% of MSRP – .00175 Base Rate

2007 BMW 335xi Sedan
24 Month – Residual 71% of MSRP – .00275 Base Rate
36 Month – Residual 61% of MSRP – .00275 Base Rate

2007 BMW 335i Convertible
24 Month – Residual 70% of MSRP – .00320 Base Rate
36 Month – Residual 59% of MSRP – .00320 Base Rate

poorprof

Hi all:

I am shopping for a 328i coupe with Premium, metalic silver and auto trans (MSRP roughly $41,000). I have talked to 3 dealers and one who is the Costco program dealer. The best I have been able to get is $1500 off MSRP ($1850 through costco). What should I be looking for? They all claim this is as good as it gets.

kyfdx

Doc fees are capped in California..

$499 doc fees.... sounds like GA or FL.. ick..

donnabgood1

For what it's worth I agree BMW cannot roll the security deposit in the cap cost..there would be little or no incentive for them to do so..it would increase the bank's guidelines for advance (which is 120% of MSRP keep in mind that 120% must include TTL and any extras one would add in the F&I office) and what if indeed your car did become a total loss and the GAP paid the difference of market value and what was owed to the bank including a 3500+ security deposit that you think should be refunded to you? You could see how there are some who would take advanatage of the loophole all day long..I too wanted to add as much to my cap cost as possible (it is why I drove my MSRP up to 44750 (just added satelitte) to take advantage of cap cost and my salesman told me to not to put any more than drive off down about low 900's and throw everything else to security deposits..

As an aside Blue Guy, did you ever have a VW Jetta 1.8t? I think I remember your name from those boards? I had a 02 VW Jetta 1.8t (really ended up not liking that car because of the turbo -- it's what stopped me from getting a 335i til this day -- though I know there is no comparsion to BMW's technolgy and twin turbo..) still it would be funny if you were there and now here..I might have to write you in 09 when my 07 BMW 328i lease expires and see what we are getting next.. Ha, ha.

Real, John and Isabella thanks alot for writing and thinking I got a good deal on my current lease.. Really your approval does mean a lot to me..you can have a deal and think you did good, but it is so nice to get validated from those in the know.

Donna

blueguydotcom

I had an 01 Jetta 1.8T. I sold it in 03 and replaced it with an 03 BMW 330i.

Just dropping my 06 330i now for a 2007 Cooper S.

jim_beam

Just got my 328i S this afternoon from BMW Mountain View. Auto, Premium and metallic color. Sale price was 35760 + TTL.

This forum really helped me in my research. If anybody wants the name/phone number of my SA, PM me.

This is my first BMW ever. I am absolutely loving it

stevehecht

http://www.bostoncars.us/static/cars/PRIVATE%20PARTY_2000_BMW_328ci_Stock_Coupe%- - 20P02030/car.JPG

This URL is a photo of a 2000 328ci with 89K miles, and the owner is asking $14,950. This private party is selling it through a very reputable used foreign car service down the road from me. Assuming the maintenance and service records check out and the service manager tells me good things, does this kind of purchase ever make sense? I'm thinking I wouldn't pay over $12.5 for it if I wanted it. Normally I would never consider buying a car with almost 90K miles on it. But it would be my second driver, my fun car, and I would not be driving it daily by any means. I think it's a beautiful car, and maybe it's an inexpensive entry into bimmerland for me. How long could I reasonably expect to drive this car this way if it's well maintained? What kind of repairs/maintenance might I be looking at?

kyfdx

I can only comment on the price.. I think your idea of $12,500 would be all the money..

I wonder, though... Those wheels are the 68M model.. Those were standard on 330i Sport models. I don't recall seeing them on a 328Ci.. which is not really important... It just makes me wonder if the car has the whole sport package, including the sport seats.

The picture sure looks good.. is it a stick-shift?

Wondering about future costs? You might try posting over here: BMW 3-Series Maintenance and Repair

Or, here: BMW 3-Series Sedans 2005 and earlier

regards,
kyfdx

circlew

Steve, I think the picture says it's a nice car but your next step is to feel the car live. Check the car with a reliable mechanic and remember, some cars have hidden damage caused by flooding, etc. Use your five senses.

This would be a very good car for the price. You would do well to consider maintenance costs. You might want to invest in a maintenance contract.

Regards,
OW

jammmieus

I am in the market for a 3 year/12k mile lease on a 328i or 328xi(with Auto, Premium and Cold Weather). What is the April base money factor and residual value? I am receiving conflicting info from dealers in my area...
Also what would be a good deal in NJ without much down payment.

pjo1966

They are listed here

stevehecht

I wonder, though... Those wheels are the 68M model.. Those were standard on 330i Sport models. I don't recall seeing them on a 328Ci.. which is not really important... It just makes me wonder if the car has the whole sport package, including the sport seats.

Yep, the ad calls them "staggered M rims" and does mention the car has both premium sport packages. And it has brand new Michelin Pilot Sports, 225/45 front and 245/40 rear.

.. is it a stick-shift? Yep, it is.

I think your idea of $12,500 would be all the money

Does that mean you think that's an appropriate price for this car?

stevehecht

Are you saying that the asking price of $14,950 is already a good price, or my idea to lower it to ~$12,500? My research doing comparisons on the web indicates that their asking price is already pretty darn good.

The place that's brokering this private sale is right down the road from me and have a very good reputation. I'd probably be using them for maintenance service. To get an idea of their operation and staff, they're at: http://www.bostoncars.us/

I don't know anything about maintenance contracts for older cars/BMWs. Where do I start to look into that? Any suggestions about good contracts out there?

kyfdx

I don't think the car is worth much more than $12,500.. maybe, it will bring more than that.. but, I wouldn't pay it..

While the miles aren't necessarily high for the model year, 89K is still 89K..

Otherwise, the car has all the right equipment. You'll need winter tires and rims, if you plan on driving in inclement weather..

I'd get it inspected, but with that age and mileage, I doubt you'll find a cost effective warranty.

stevehecht

FYI, the car was sold Easter weekend for the asking price. That's OK, I've got my eye on a 1999 328 coupe for $12,900 with 83K miles in North Carolina on the BMWCCA website (I just joined). But I'll be renting a new 325i coupe for the day on Wednesday to see if I can satisfy my BMW craving for $100 one day per month instead of buying the thing.

jaschwar

I am looking to purchase my 2004 330xi with premium package and automatic off of lease end this week. The lease buyout price is @26,150, the MSRP was $44,000 in 2004, and was based off of a total of 36k miles. However, I only have 25k miles on the car.
My issue is that I have seen on these boards that people have had success purchasing it from the dealer as opposed to BMW Financial Services and in some cases based off of the MMR (Manheim Auction Cost) as opposed to the lease buyout price.

Can anybody here give me some guidance relevant to how to do this, whether this is a good price, and how I could find out what the actual MMR price is on my own before I get to the dealer?

Also, the dealer is giving me conflicting info associated with updating it to CPO status and the pricing to do it and/or buying a maintenance contract. Any idea what the price SHOULD be for those two options?

Thanks

kyfdx

Here is the best example I've found of someone doing this...

CPO MMR deal

You can read on down the thread to see replies, etc...

It looks like it takes a willing dealer who will help you out for just a small profit..

regards,
kyfdx

edogg1

I need your help. I live in Redondo Beach and work in Long Beach. I went to LB BMW today and got this offer:

2007 328i
Premium
Sport
Zenon
Nav

MSRP 42,675
Price:40,440 (they said it was 400 over invoice but Edmunds says 36K is invoice)
30 Months
4K down
Residual 68%
Money Factor says 1.55????

Payment is 449 with tax.

Can I use MSD's instead?

wrobbins8047

Is this for a Coupe or Sedan?

edogg1

Sedan. Metallic Grey.

To clarify, The Money Factor is .00155.
They said there is also a $795 Destination Fee.

The listed program on the website for a standard 328i with no options is $339 month 10K miles for 36 Months.

donnabgood1

What is a CPO MMR deal.. I know what CPO means..but MMR? Is this something that BMW Financial would do? (sounds like a lower selling price perhaps on agreed residual value on the contract?) Please if someone wouldn't mind to share the details of a lease buy out purchase, I would love to hear the details.

Just found my original sales brochure on my '05 325i..it made me a little sad to know I will have to be saying good bye to that car soon.. a 2 year lease seems to zoom by..I really should have done more research on the lease purchase option..

EDogg, I think Edmunds invoice pricing on BMW's is wrong. My understanding is that there is 7% difference from MSRP and invoice..I think most here would agree that 500-750 over invoice would be a good deal, as well if possible to max your MSD...it really does save you money. Buy rate for BMW this month is 1.40 (maybe it's 1.55 without security deposit because you are a first time BMW owner?) and aqq. fee should be 625.

How come you're not going to South Bay BMW? Is it because all of the bad publicity they received recently of demanding fingerprints from anyone who purchased or leased a car from them? I was to both LB and South Bay (with a friend looking at a 335i). I thought both places seemed to have a good atmosphere and selection..in the end just make your decision on who earns your business and gives you the best service..because if they can't do it when you are buying a car, imagine them when you do have a problem.. Good luck.
Donna :shades:

edogg1

Thanks Donna. LB BMW is near work and South Bay is near my house. The actual Invoice is $39,445 and the sales price is $40400. I want to go in with my offer. What do you think I can get done based on the info?

39,800 Sale Price and reduce the acq fee?
So you recomend MSD's?
I will check with South Bay as well.

obrientwo

jim_beam
Have repeatedly tried to PM you re you SA at BMW Mt. View without any luck. May be because I use a Mac. Could you PM me with the info? I live in SF and it appears the best deals are down your way and Sacremento. Thanks in advance.

ben2e

I'm in Seattle where the deals are few and far between. A few years ago, I found a few lease deals where they would purchase the vehicle in Southern California where the market was more competetive and ship the car to you and you'd still save a ton. Anyone know of any outfits doing that or if that's still a good way to go ? Otherwise, I can just solicit bids from them. This is for a new 335 Convertible. I can't immagine just doing an in-person negotiation.

donnabgood1

I would ask one more time how much over invoice you will have to pay -- in lease terms what the gross capital cost before is before cap reduction. I'm thinking it should be close to 38100, invoice (based on 7% discount) plus 500..don't give them those numbers until you hear what they have to say.. and yes your aqq fee should be 625..different than the dest. charge which I think is 775. Base money factor is 1.40 after one month security dep. than you can max out your security dep.. up to 7 times additional..reducing your money factor by a max of .49. It will save you big time on your monthly payment and is fully refunded at the end of your lease term..

all things being equal, I would choose the dealership closest to your house..that is the dealership that will always be the most convenient for you for service and maint. and who you'd want a relationship with.. when I was at South Bay I had an outstanding sales advisor.. someone I'd recommend, because she was very detail oriented without high pressure..Linda Smalley.. she is not a decision maker, she will most likely get her sales mgr involved, but as far as knowing the cars and be very pleasant she is tops..I didn't really push to hard on the deal there, because my friend was just looking, but they did offer 750 above invoice(not on the 335i coupe, nobody is making any concessions on that car) and uninflated aqq fee and buy rate..after I let them know I wasn't going to pay mark up n either of those things..

Lucky you, shopping for a new BMW, it doesn't get much more fun than that.

Donna

donnabgood1

whoops, I made a mistake.. I did not base the invoice cost on the right figure. I think the price they quoted you is fair, not great, but quite good.. most especially if it is the car you love.. if it was 500 over invoice the price should be about 200 less..again you know best if personally it is worth the grind and the time for a couple extra hundred dollars (not thousands, 100's at this price point) in your pocket.. when you get final numbers let us know.

Regards,
Donna

liquimatic

Dealer offered $300 over invoice down from $46,995, to about $43600. This seems like a good deal. (includes: navi, sport, premium, steptronic etc).

He is offering a MF of .002xx. I told him based on my research BMW MF should be .00140. He responded telling me that would require a security deposit. Is this true? This makes my monthly payments over $650 including tax (with Minimum-drive off around $1050).
I see people getting $550 or less all over this townhall forum. Is there a much better deal out there?

ALSO, the car i wanted had a bit of rough idling, and they told me this was just because the computer needed to be reprogrammed. is THIS true? I don't want to pick up a problem BMW!!!

Also, I'd prefer a 335i, but its a bit out of my price range. Should I cut back on options from a 328 and get a 335 (including long waiting list?!)

Feedback & Comments are much appreciated!!!

rebirth24

Where are you located?

liquimatic

In San Jose, California

sactokenn

Obrientwo,
I'm in Sacramento and couldn't do too well here. I ordered a 328i sedan from Peter Pan in San Mateo for invoice plus $500 and no markup on MF or acq. fee. You can see my details in post 7559 on page 379 of this thread. I'd recommend the CA and, if you're interested, can give you the contact info. via PM.

frankel19110

I am about to go in to negotiate a 36 month lease on a 335ci. As configured, mine would be $52,745 retail. I haven't been able to find reliable equivalent invoice pricing.

Any guidance on what is possible/reasonable to get as cap cost for the lease (assume no trade in or down payment)? How about BMW Financial money factor? Residual percentage?

Thanks so much for any help!

kyfdx

The coupe, not the convertible, right?

MF is .00185

3yr/45K residual is 58%

rebirth24

Where are you located?

frankel19110

sorry for not being clear: i am in ohio and it is for the convert.

frankel19110

convertible. thanks.

kyfdx

.00320 and 59%, then...

Discounts? Probably $1000 off MSRP at most..

Do the math.. you won't like the lease prices..

obrientwo

sactokenn,
Can't seem to PM you. Would greatly appreciate if you would PM me with name at Peter Pan. Am still trying to figure out leasing. Information on the site is helpful but I still get confused. Got an lease offer yesterday where the dealer used the full MSRP but used a very low MF. At my request, he said he would lower the price but that would cause the MF to go up. He insisted that both capitalized cost and MF have to be looked at together. He said some make the mistake of only focusing on the capitalized cost and then the dealer sticks them on the MF??? Thanks for your postings.

frankel19110

thanks. you're right, not particularly attractive pricing -- although the residual is relatively strong.