2013 and earlier BMW 3-Series Prices Paid and Buying Experience

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Comments

  • luckyme1luckyme1 Member Posts: 29
    I just started looking at this forum. Some great info. here. I have leased 2 BMW's, a 99' 325 Convertible, and a '03 330 Sedan. Both 30 month, 30K miles. Good experience with both.....but when I went to get a 335i Convertible, MSRP @ $55,075, I was blind sighted. A 36 month, $2500 down, perfect credit, and 12,000 mi./yr. the lease payment was a whopping $1069.00/mo. You got to be kidding me.
    I guess if I want one bad enough, I would purchase it. The dealer was rather embarrassed by the figures as well, but he said due to demand, this is what it will cost. An equal 335i coupe deal is maybe $550-$600??
    I'm not up on all the facts and money factors, etc. but the bottom line is this lease is ridiculous.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 267,565
    A brand new model that has only been out for about a month... If you want the latest and greatest, that is the cost..

    Next fall, lease prices will probably be 15-20% lower... Still not cheap, but better..

    You probably got good deals on your previous cars... '99 was the last year for that model convertible.. '03 was the 5th model year for that sedan... Lease deals were plentiful...

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  • obrientwoobrientwo Member Posts: 9
    328i
    MSRP $38,850
    Cap cost $38,850
    Int rate 4.32
    12k miles per yr
    Payment $582 including tax
    Residual 64%
    Out the door $1725
    Thoughts and advice appreciated.
  • ikolnikoln Member Posts: 6
    Hi All,

    does anyone know what are the Money Factor and Residuals for April 2007 on BWM 328xi - 36 month lease?

    I heard from the dealer that it is:
    - MF 0.00021
    - Residual 61%

    Is it true?

    Thank you!
  • pjo1966pjo1966 Member Posts: 159
    See post 7621
  • wrobbins8047wrobbins8047 Member Posts: 32
    Can you break down the Out the door fees? I think you can do better. Is this for a coupe or sedan?

    some good deals I have read in these post came from:
    BMW of Long Beach,
    Savage,
    BMW of Plam Springs.

    Also goto http://www.leaseguide.com/calc.htm and plug in your numbers, I don't see how they add up. I delt with BMW of Palm Springs and his numbers were the only ones that I could match up to the penny, others were off by 20/mth to 100/mth. Also he gave me the true invoice + 500.

    Also check out this thread.

    http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146090
  • rebirth24rebirth24 Member Posts: 13
    Who did you speak to over at the Palm Springs BMW and which car were you looking at? Trying to find a the best deal I can in the SoCal area on a 335i.
  • wrobbins8047wrobbins8047 Member Posts: 32
    I can't post names or numbers, and I tried to PM you but the function on this site still broken, so email me at this temp address edmunds@peninsulite.com
  • sfmarssfmars Member Posts: 13
    Hi, I've been drooling over the 335i coupe since its been released and have finally decided that life's too short without the car that you want.

    I've been reading the forums on and off and am trying to devise a plan to keep my monthly payments around $500/mo. I've already run senarios on the lease calculator and there are still some variables I'm unsure about and was hoping for some concerte answers from someone.

    Here are the specifics.
    -Calculated msrp: 48550 (premium, sport, nav, heated seats, power rear sunshade, manual trans, metallic paint)
    -Desired Lease length: 3yr 15k miles

    -If I assume I can get the car out the door after tax for the MSRP price, how much would that make my Cap Cost (tax 8.75% Bay Area, CA tax)? I calculated approx. 45000 (which is the invoice price). Is this a realistic price?

    -Second question:
    Since I live in N. Cali, can I make multiple security deposits (7, 8, max)? I am also willing to make a down payment.

    I'm just not sure how many security deposits I can and need to make and how much if any I need to down to achieve the $500 goal.

    Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks!
  • pepperjackpepperjack Member Posts: 12
    Hi Everyone,

    I am preparing to make my first offer on a 328i, and I prepared the following based on info I found in this Forum, as well as BMWUSA.com, Edmunds, LeaseGuide.com, and Bimmerfest. Any and all feedback is much appreciated!

    BMW 328i - jet black sedan w/ $775 Destination Charge
    Options: Sports Package, Steptronic

    MSRP: $36,050 (Edmunds)
    Invoice: $33,250 (Edmunds)
    Base Cap Cost Offer: $33,750 (Invoice + $500)
    Acq. Fee: $625
    Doc., Title, and Reg. Fees: $500 (I am hoping this is a high estimate.)
    Disposition Fee: $350
    Down Payment: $0
    Adjusted Cap Cost Offer: $35,225

    Lease Factors
    Term: 36 mo.
    Mile: 12k/yr
    Money Factor: 0.0014
    Residual: 63%

    State Sales Tax: 9% (Louisiana)

    Monthly Payment: $467.28 ($428.70 + $38.58 tax, via LeaseGuide.com; 1st payment due at lease inception.)

    MISCELLANEOUS
    MSDs: I have spoken w/ 1 dealer, and he told me they no longer allow Multiple Security Deposits for reduction of the Money Factor.
    Security Deposit: I am allowing for a $350-$400 deposit due at lease inception, to be refunded at lease-end. (This aspect of the lease is not a major concern for me.)
    Income Tax Deductions: It is my understanding that Art. 162 of the Fed Tax Code allows an above the line deduction for the % of auto-lease-payments (excluding sales tax thereon) allocable to "ordinary & necessary" business expenses (and that the same rule applies for gas). Inasmuch as I would be using my 328i about 75%-80% for daily travel to and from work, and other work-related travel, over the term of my lease I could deduct up to $28,180 of my $35,225 adjusted cap cost. Assuming those deductions are applied to income taxed at a low, fictional rate of 22.5%, that allows for a tax credit equivalent of $6,340.50 - giving me an effective adjusted cap cost of $28,884.50.

    MORE MISCELLANEOUS
    Insurance: My auto insurance will go up about $200/yr with the 328i.
    Car Alarm: Does BMW offer an alarm on the 328i? I have not seen alarms listed as either standard or optional.
    Steptronic vs. Manual: Automatic transmissions have always irritated me - but the BMW I test drove had one, and it was pretty tight. I am only about 90% sure I want the Steptronic, so if anyone has a horror story, please share.
    Leatherette vs. Leather: I could not tell a difference.
    Jet Black vs. Metallic-Saphire Black: I could not tell a difference.

    Thanks in advance for any and all feedback and assistance. I'm pretty psyched about all this.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 267,565
    1) The disposition fee is paid when you turn your car back in... don't add it to your CAP cost.

    2) $500 over invoice? Doubtful. Realistically? $1200-$1500 over. But, it can't hurt to ask.

    3) Tax deduction? Do you own a business? If not, commuting to and from your job is not deductible from your income. If you do own a business and lease a car, only a portion of the actual lease payments are deductible. You can't figure your expenses based on the CAP cost.

    4) Alarm is optional and dealer-installed. But, the car is basically impossible to steal, unless it is towed away. IMO, not necessary.

    5) Manual transmission is cheaper. Leatherette is cheaper. Jet Black is cheaper. Those three options add about $50/mo. to the lease payment. If you don't desire them, then don't get them.

    6) MSDs not allowed? Maybe a Louisiana thing? If they stopped allowing them, that will be big news. I haven't heard that.

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  • wrobbins8047wrobbins8047 Member Posts: 32
    Pepper check out this link, not sure why the dealer doesn't offer MSD's if BMW does and your lease is from BMW FS. I would find a dealer that does.

    http://fs.bmwusa.com/BMWFSPulp/VEHLEA_PaymentOptions.htm

    Also 500 over invoice is realistic, I got and other on this forum has as well, although I am in an area that BMW's are in avg car and plenty of dealers around.

    Also use the invoice numbers from cars.com they have the latest numbers that account for the march increase.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    My local dealer has also told me before that they don't allow MSDs. Probably just dealer specific. MSDs probably eat into their kickbacks from the bank.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 267,565
    Actually... it doesn't affect the dealer, at all.. good or bad..

    New York restricts the amount of security deposit to $750. Other than that, I've heard of no state where they aren't available.

    When a dealer doesn't want to do MSDs, it usually means one of three things:

    1) They aren't familiar with the program

    2) They are worried about it complicating their deal, and taking the customer's eye off the ball. Sometimes, when it comes to writing a big check, even if it is ultimately beneficial, customers start to get cold feet.

    3) They are marking up the money factor, and don't want to get into reducing it by MSDs, as that will make it evident that they are profiting from the mark up. (this is probably the most common reason).

    If you want to do MSDs on a lease (and you don't live in NY), then just insist on it.

    regards,
    kyfdx

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  • pepperjackpepperjack Member Posts: 12
    Special thanks to kyfdx, tayl0rd, and wrobbins8047. Your responses were swift and exactly what I was hoping for.

    Here is a status update in regard to your comments:

    Disposition Fee: Thank you kyfdx. Originally I thought to include it up front, as I did, to get a sense of how much I would really be paying overall. However, if I made an offer that included the $350 up front, if I was not careful, I could have ended up paying the disposition fee twice. That would have really irritated me. Now I realize this is one more thing I need to be careful about.

    Base Cap Cost Offer: $500 over invoice is designed as an aggressive first offer. I expect it will be rejected. I will take this one step at a time, though under no circumstance - based on the purchasing experiences I have read - would I pay more than $1000 over invoice.

    Tax Deduction: I do not own my own business. I had heard that commuting costs are not deductible (as they are factored in to job acceptance decisions). However, I travel approximately 400+ miles a month for work aside from commuting (based on a sample of a 3.6 month period from 2 JAN 07, when I started work, to 18 APR 07). Accordingly, I would still be allowed a deduction of up to 40% of my lease payments (before sales tax) - correct, kyfdx?

    Alarm: I had read other people's complaints (I think on a Yahoo blog) regarding the lack of an alarm. It's reassuring to know it is not really an issue. (Also, just FYI, I checked with my auto insurer who indicated the addition of an alarm would only reduce my insurance by $10 a year. This also weighs in on the side of an alarm not being an issue.)

    Exterior, Interior, Transmission: The metallic paint and leather are not important to me. The transmission, however, may be. My gut is undecided so far - and if it stays that way, I will go with NO STEPTRONIC. However, the dealer I spoke with indicated it may take as long as 90 days to acquire a 328i w/o steptronic. That gives rise to three new considerations for me: (1) whether I feel like waiting that long; (2) whether I should consider ED - since I understand allowing 90 days for that entire process is a good standard, and that the cost savings are substantial; and (3) I need to start talking to other dealers.

    MSDs: Apparently, these are dealer specific. Thank you wrobbins8047 for the link to FS.BMWUSA, which provides: "The Multiple Lease Security Deposits: This option saves you money. You reduce your monthly lease payments, and you get the deposits back at the end of your lease. You can make up to 5 additional refundable security deposits. This option is not available with PrePay. MSDs are ltd by law in the state of NY. Ask your BMW center for more details." After reading that, I started snooping around to find out how much each of of the 5 allowed MSDs would reduced the MF. One source said that it was by .00005, and another said it was by .00007; so I called Vehicle Services @ 1-800-578-5000, who indicated it is entirely up to the dealer. This gave rise to 2 considerations: (1) I would be very happy to put up to $2500 towards MSDs to reduce the MF from 0.0014 to 0.00115; and (2) I need to start talking to other dealers.

    Cars.Com: I checked this website b/c wrobbins8047 indicated it incorporates March 2007 price increases. It shows that the base invoice price increased by $180, and is now $29,990; the invoice price of the options I want have not changed. See Cars.Com.

    Kelly Blue Book, which indicates its prices are current for March 2007, matches Edmunds. See KBB.

    I have not decided how this info will affect the adjusted cap cost ceiling I want to set. My first inclination is to make my initial offer of $500 over invoice by using the higher invoice listed on Cars.Com, but to retain the $1000 over invoice ceiling by using the lower invoice found on Edmunds and KBB. My second inclination is to do the exact same thing, but vice versa (e.g., offer $500 over the lower invoice data, but base my $1000 over invoice limit on the higher invoice data).

    In any event, a new question I have is: are Power Seats included in the Sports Package? I thought they were. BMWUSA.com and Edmunds indicates they are. However, they are listed as separate options on Cars.Com and KBB.

    Time is Money?: It recently occurred to me that I have probably spent 20 to 40 hours - maybe more - researching all of this in the hopes of saving a few thousand dollars. At some point, my direct savings in purchase price will balance evenly with the value of my time spent trying to save. I do not like to think about this too much!!

    Thanks again to everyone for your continuing assistance and feedback.

    Very truly,

    PJ
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Member Posts: 1,926
    ...are Power Seats included in the Sports Package? I thought they were. BMWUSA.com and Edmunds indicates they are. However, they are listed as separate options on Cars.Com and KBB ...

    That's one caveat with KBB and Edmunds. They show a la carte options when they are part of packages; however, Edmunds does show the packages, too. In any case, I do believe power seats are standard on all BMWs nowadays. The definitive source will be the BMW website and your dealer.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 267,565
    1) Tax deduction... by all means, contact an accountant.. but, I believe unreimbursed business travel is deductible with a few caveats. I think you have to itemize to take advantage of it. And, only the amount that exceeds 2% of your gross income is actually deductible. The record-keeping is onerous, check with your accountant, and don't count on a deduction helping you to pay for your car.

    2) MSDs: Last we heard.. 7 MSDs, with each dropping the MF by .00007 for a total of .00049.. The amount of each MSD is your payment, rounded up to the next $50 increment.

    3) Power seats: Don't know about the new model, but in the old model 3-series, they aren't included with the Sport package... If you also get the Premium package, the seats are power... otherwise, they are manual.

    4) Time is money? Spare time is FREE.. take all the time you want or need.

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  • nizo53nizo53 Member Posts: 4
    After searching many dealers in FL, I found one in Orlando willing to work with me:

    36 months/12K a year Lease

    07 328i Sedan – Black on Black
    Automatic
    Premium Package
    Sports Package
    Comfort Access
    Navigation System
    Xenon
    Park Distance

    MSRP: 43050.00/w 90 BMW mats
    Bank Fee: 625
    Residual: 60%
    MF: .00014 (marked up a bit but fair)

    Sale Price: 41,465.00

    Monthly Payment + 7.00% tax = 569.52

    License & Registration: $339.75
    Documentation Fee: $45.00
    First Payment: $569.52
    Security Deposit: $0.00
    Drive Off: $957.75
  • pepperjackpepperjack Member Posts: 12
    Power Seats: They are definitely not included w/ the Sports Pkg., though they can be added on to it either à la carte or via the Premium Pkg.

    New MSD Inspired Idea: Have you heard of someone offering a dealer money down, instead of an MSD, to reduce the MF? For example, imagine an Adjusted Cap Cost of $36,000 for a 36 mo. lease with a 0.0014 MF and 63% residual. Excluding sales tax throughout this example, the mo. payment would be $434.80, and the security deposit would be $450.00.

    Traditional MSD concept: Traditionally, if the dealer allowed 7 additional MSDs @ $450.00 each, with each reducing the MF by 0.00007, an additional $3150.00 security deposit ($3600.00 total security deposited) would yield a 0.00091 MF (0.0014 - 7 * 0.00007), and monthly payments of $405.72.

    Down Payment Variaton #1: What if, alternatively, a dealer was offered the same $3150.00 as a down payment in exchange for the same 0.00091 MF? In this scenario the monthly payments would be $315.35 - which, over 36 mo., is $3253.32 less than 36 payments of $405.72.

    Down Payment Variation #2: An additional consideration is that, inasmuch as the mo. payments are lower, the initial security deposit would only be $350, as opposed to $450 - and the total of the down payment & security deposit would be $3500, instead of $3600. If you increase the down payment by $100 to $3250, and use a $350 security deposit, the result is a $312.48 mo. payment, which, over 36 mo., is $3356.64 less than 36 payments of $405.72.

    Would a dealer consider accepting this deal? Would it be attractive to a dealer for the same reason MSDs are to consumers? Wouldn't the foregoing hypo actually be more attractive to a dealer, considering the amount offered as a down payment is a multiple of the $450.00 security deposit, as opposed to the $350.00 security deposit (e.g., it's 7 * $100 more than it would be in Variation #1, and 8 * $100 more in variation #2)? Is this a bad deal for the consumer? How should an offer like this be adjusted to be the equivalent of its MSD counterpart?

    Just some things I've been kicking around. That "spare time is FREE time" got me revved up again.
  • vsaxenavsaxena Member Posts: 211
    PJ:

    You need to understand how leases work. Most people lease their BMWs from BMW Financial Services, with the dealer acting as agent. The money factor is determined by BMWFS. The dealer can mark it up by 1% (0.0004).

    The MSD program is a BMWFS program; they reduce the money factor if you put MSDs. If you put money down as cap cost reduction, these are not treated as MSDs by BMWFS and will not result in a lower MF.

    In general never put money down towards cap cost reduction. If the car gets totaled you lose your equity in the car (your down payment). The only exception is putting $100-$200 down to get your payment below a multiple of $50 to reduce the amount of the security deposits when doing MSD :).

    If you have a little bit more of free time, consider doing European Delivery and chopping another $100-$150 off you monthly lease payment. You will not pay the training fee, the MACO fee on ED cars ($500-$600 dollars).

    And do sign up for BMW Car Club of America. They have a member's rebate program which sends you a nice check ($500 for 3er, $1000 for 5er and $1500 for 7er) whenever you buy a new or CPO BMW ($500) as long as you have been a member for 1 year without any lapse in membership.

    You can own BMWs with a true cost of ownership which is shockingly low.
  • david_fldavid_fl Member Posts: 17
    I was wondering if anybody knows the MF and Residual for a 24 months and 36 month lease for 18k and 20k miles for the 328i sedan? I need to get one for more than the standard 15k.

    Also if would make sense and I would get better rates if I looked at doing a lease for odd months i.e. 27 or 39 months.

    I am not sure if the rates are regional at all, but I am located in FL.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 267,565
    BMWFS only quotes up to 15K mi./yr. You can purchase extra miles at lease inception for $0.15/ea. which is figured into your lease payment. I'm not certain if this is used to increase the CAP cost, or to reduce the residual, but the results are similar.

    So, if you need 3yr/54K lease, then reduce the 3yr/45K residual by $1350 to approximate the correct payment.

    At this time, I'm not aware of a non-standard term that is a better deal than 24mo. or 36 mo., but that does happen occasionally. In December, they had some great deals on 28 month leases on 525i and Z4.

    regards,
    kyfdx

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  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 267,565
    BABF!!...

    How goes it?

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  • pepperjackpepperjack Member Posts: 12
    Thank you, vsaxena, for the tip you used the emotorcon for! That's a great idea!

    Regarding the MSD vs Down Payment idea, I see your point, and I can see how my post looks like I don't understand the MSD concept. I might not! That's why I'm here, and appreciate all the help so much.

    Here's what I was trying to get at: Can I ever benefit from offering a large down payment?

    We agree, for one reason or another, that if you had a 36 mo. lease @ $1000.00/mo., w/ no $ down, that it would be bad to ask the dealer, "Would you mind if I just paid all $36,000 on day 1?" Your risk-of-loss argument may be one reason, and another reason is that instead of your money earning interest for you, it's earning interest for the dealer. So another way to look at what I'm asking is: since down payments benefit the dealer, can I use that fact as a bargaining chip somewhere?

    BMW dealers don't have to offer MSDs, and some don't. But they all accept down payments! So I'm looking for a back-door (front-door?) approach whereby I can get MSD type benefits from a BMW dealer who doesn't offer MSDs.

    [Note: The following is not BMW specific - it's related to general lease questions I have after reading vsaxena's foregoing post]
    Also, thank you for your tip about "equity". I was under the impression that, down payment or otherwise, I would never have "equity" in a leased car. I had only thought that I had equity in the lease agreement itself, since I own it, but not the leased property, which I don't (I only own the use of it). Thx! (Actually, I'm still not 100% clear on this! Is there a website or Forum post that explains this more? And wouldn't gap coverage solve this problem if the car got totaled?)

    New question though: if a leased car gets totaled, how is the risk of loss of a down payment different from the risk of loss of MSDs? Down payments & MSDs are both paid up front, right? And, one way or another, you don't get the amount of either one back if you total the car, right? So, in the end, what's the difference? (Again, I'm thinking gap coverage helps here - and that there's a big difference between "equity" and "equity value"...)
  • jonwjonw Member Posts: 4
    I am considering getting a 2007 328i. I just found that the car no longer has a coolant temp gauge and also eliminated the oil dipstick. I am concerned about how reliably the engine oil and temperature can be monitored. The MB C-class once got rid of the temp gauge but later put it back. Can anyone address this issue? Thank you!
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 267,565
    You have a little misconception about how leasing (or buying) a car works for the dealer.

    Unless you are credit-challenged, the dealer doesn't care if you make a down-payment or not.. If you are buying the car, the dealer gets the full selling price upfront.. either from you, if you are paying cash, or from the bank you are borrowing the money from.

    If you are leasing, it works the same way.. You and the dealer negotiate a selling price. Then, the leasing company buys the car from the dealer for that amount, and then rents it to you. If the selling price is $40K, the dealer gets the entire amount upfront, whether you make a down-payment or not. If you put $4000 down on the lease, the dealer keeps that, and the leasing company (bank, BMWFS, etc.) pays them the other $36K.

    So... a down-payment on a lease only serves to pay part of the obligation upfront, reducing the payments by the same amount. True, the down-payment money will reduce the finance charges slightly, but not enough to make much difference. Generally, the leasing company will not reduce the money factor, just because you made a large down-payment.

    MSDs on the other hand... reduce the amount of finance charges on the entire lease. But, they are a financial agreement between you and the leasing company. They don't affect the dealer at all.

    As far as what happens to MSDs if the leased car gets totaled? Common sense would lead one to believe that you'll get those back. Unfortunately, we've had no one post a real-world experience regarding that issue.

    Hope this helps,
    kyfdx

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  • donnabgood1donnabgood1 Member Posts: 39
    KYFDX,

    just curious.. I have followed your advice and others here and am doing the max MSD..I am happy for that little known secret..it reduced my monthly pymt by roughly 40 dollars a month for a 3150 outlay. great return on the money. I'm thrilled with the deal I got..but it does leave me wondering being as BMWFS is the ONLY bank that offers this incentive (reduction of MF) with the security deposits -- what do you think is in it for them? What's their incentive, other than maybe the psychology of the hope you will take better care of the car keeping in mind you (the driver/registered owner) want that security dep. back hassle free.. kind of like renting an apartment when they ask for a security dep.. but could that be the only reason BMW does it, and if so why not others I wonder..just curious what you and others think..

    Curious,
    Donna
  • trewquistrewquis Member Posts: 30
    They get two things out of the MSD-

    1) Reduced risk associated with missed payments. If you miss a couple of payments, they can take action to recover the vehicle before it actually costs them anything since they already have your money for several months.

    2) They earn interest while holding your security deposit. I don't know how it works for car leases but for escrow on your house or a security deposit on an aparatment lease, the bank is required to reduce your payment on the home loan by the amount of interest they earn on this money in no risk savings account, while a landlord at the end of a lease must return the sd + minimal interest earned (usually a bank savings account rate). So, if BMWFS doesn't return your money + interest, well they keep the interest. If they wisely invest your money and earn a good return on it (which they ought to be able to do with their financial clout) but give you 3.5% then they make the difference.

    So, it turns out to be a wash for you if they reduce the interest rate you pay by the amount you would earn on the money - but they win for reason 1. Considering their reduced risk, they should cut the rate by greater than the amount of interest you could reasonably expect to earn on the MSD. That way you both win.
  • trewquistrewquis Member Posts: 30
    "BMWFS only quotes up to 15K mi./yr. You can purchase extra miles at lease inception for $0.15/ea."

    Well that sucks, if you look at their price differences between 10K, 12K, and 15K mi/yr, then they only charge you half that per mile.

    What's the deal with that?
  • nightrodnightrod Member Posts: 3
    Hoping someone can help me out. In the process of looking for a new 3 series. Currently have a 525i coming off lease but looking to "downsize" my payment. Given the issues I always have in the snow w/ my 525 (sport pkg) first option was to go with the 328xi. First question -

    (1) Every BMW I have had (4) has had the sport pkg which is why I am leaning towards the xi. However, I do have interest in the 335i - no sport pkg. Can I expect to get stuck everywhere (snow) in a 335i premium? Or - will I atleast be able to get home on snow covered roads?

    Now, got a lease quote yesterday from a dealer in Norther NJ for a 328xi - metallic paint, cold weather, premium pkg. Can someone tell me if this dealer is ripping me off or am I atleast in the ballpark:

    2007 328xi
    metallic / cold / prem
    $3000 out of pocket at pickup (money down,mvs, first month and bank fee) - those were the only specifics he gave me as it was an internet quote.
    30 months
    12k yr - $454
    15k yr - $482

    Now, given that SAME exact deal noted above, I told the dealer that I wanted to "sign and drive" - nothing out of my pocket at delivery.

    30 months
    12k yr - $567
    15k yr - $596

    Bottom line - let me know if I am even in the ballpark. If I am not - let me know where I should be and if the 328xi is a better choice then the 335i (specific to the weather in northern NJ).
  • dhanleydhanley Member Posts: 1,531
    The deal is that if you return a particularly high mileage car to them, it may be hard to sell, especially if they can't CPO it because it is over 50K miles.
  • r74gr74g Member Posts: 6
    New to the forum, but would like some help/advice on how to proceed.

    Been reading a bit and the information is insightful, here is my situation.

    I leased an 04 base model and had a payment of 500 with 3k down. This is due to the fact that I was way upside down on my trade in.

    Got quoted 588 on an 07 328i with 3k down. This included my trade in and the car was a Sport package, xenon, leatherette, a pretty complete car.

    My 04 has 59k miles on it and some wear on it (not ugly to see but it has seen the road).

    I do not want to put any money down and also do not want to pay more than 550 for the new car. Any ideas as to how I can negotiate down? Or can anybody give me the name of a dealer in southern california that would give me a good deal? This quote is from the dealer I leased the car from in the first place.

    Let me know I am missing anything.

    Any advicce will be greatly appreciated!!
  • donnabgood1donnabgood1 Member Posts: 39
    Thanks Trequis. That was a really good explanation of the "what's in it for 'em?" question about security deps..I wonder how many BMW lessees do take advantage of that option..my guess is a very small percentage.. a) because either they don't know about or b) most people have only a set amount of money they want to spend on the outlay of a car purchase and don't budget for that.. I am an F&I manager at a American car dealership and I know the incentive of why people lease those cars is because the rebates generally compose the whole drive off and while BMW may be the best value considering their lease resuidals and subvented money rates, nothing beats the marketing slogan of "no money down.. lol. Again thanks for your thoughtful reply. Donna
  • david_fldavid_fl Member Posts: 17
    I am wondering if anybody knows what kind of credit score you need to have to qualify for BMWFS top lease rates?

    Also from what credit scoring company do they use?

    I thought that I read somewhere on this forum that BMWFS does not offer different rates but only has a “qualify or does not qualify program”, is that still the case?
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 267,565
    trewquis gave a pretty good explanation of the basics.. The program used to be even better at one point. It seems to be an even better deal than the explanations would account for. I'm guessing that owner loyalty is higher among leasers that use MSDs, as well. It's sort of like the rebate that BMWNA gives to members of BMWCCA. It doesn't have an immediate financial payback, but may help down the road.

    Infiniti and Audi also have a similar plan. I think Lexus does, as well, but I'm not certain about that.

    Glad you got a good deal.. :)

    regards,
    kyfdx

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  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 267,565
    As dhanley says... High miles really kills the value of highline imports..

    Plus, the more miles a car has, the more its condition seems to fluctuate, depending on how the car was treated. Most 45K mile cars are pretty much the same, no matter how they are treated. Plus, BMWs all have included factory service up to 50K miles. Higher mile cars tend to be more of a crapshoot, and the leasing company is taking on more risk with more miles.

    Which is one of the reasons why the 4-year lease rates are generally crappy for BMWs..

    regards,
    kyfdx

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  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 267,565
    A 335i without the sport package has all-season tires, traction control and stability control.. Can you get home on snow covered roads? Certainly. Will you have the traction and winter capability that you had on winter tires? No way. But, then again, most people drive on all-season tires, year round. You can certainly get by.

    I'm not buying the car, but I'd rather have RWD, and a set of snow tires. You've been doing it.. why quit now? (or are you running without snows?)

    Also, the money factor is better on the 328i sedan... .0014 vs. .0019 for the 328Xi, with both vehicles having the same residual. Comparably equipped, the 328i should be about $50/mo. less than the 328Xi.

    You didn't specify the MSRP of the car you are interested in, but the numbers don't seem too far off. I'm not familiar with the 30 month residuals, though, so I hesitate to make an off-the-cuff assessment of your deal.

    regards,
    kyfdx

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  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 267,565
    A 335i without the sport package has all-season tires, traction control and stability control.. Can you get home on snow covered roads? Certainly. Will you have the traction and winter capability that you had on winter tires? No way. But, then again, most people drive on all-season tires, year round. You can certainly get by.

    I'm not buying the car, but I'd rather have RWD, and a set of snow tires. You've been doing it.. why quit now? (or are you running without snows?)

    Also, the money factor is better on the 328i sedan... .0014 vs. .0019 for the 328Xi, with both vehicles having the same residual. Comparably equipped, the 328i should be about $50/mo. less than the 328Xi.

    You didn't specify the MSRP of the car you are interested in, but the numbers don't seem too far off. I'm not familiar with the 30 month residuals, though, so I hesitate to make an off-the-cuff assessment of your deal.

    regards,
    kyfdx

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  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 267,565
    It's hard to say how good your deal is, because we have no idea how much the dealer has to eat on your lease turn-in, due to condition and mileage charges.

    The difference between what you want, and what they are offering is about $4000. It is doubtful that the dealer left that much room to bargain down.

    What will it cost you to just turn your car in? Once you have that number, then you'll know where you are starting from.

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  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 267,565
    For incentivized lease rates, BMWFS uses a pass/fail system. What score that requires, or who they use, I don't know.

    For vehicles that don't have money factor incentives (M-cars, 6-series, etc.), the base money factor for the top tier is .0032.

    Again, I have no idea what it takes to qualify for that.

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  • pearlpearl Member Posts: 336
    did all the math using bimmerfest info, etc, plus talking to others and I am happy. May be better deals available for U.S. delivery, but my experience was totally hassle free and I am satisfied.
  • thefilmmakingthefilmmaking Member Posts: 2
    Just placed an order for 328 coupe in Los Angeles, details follow:

    MET Metallic Paint
    609 On-Board Navigation System
    205 6-Speed STEPTRONIC Automatic Transmission
    459 8-Way Power Front Seats
    322 Comfort Access

    Here are the numbers on the 36 month lease:
    MSRP: $41,420
    Cap Cost: $38,860 (700 over invoice)
    Actual Cap Cost (Including MACO and training fee): $39,420
    Money Factor: 0.00116 (with 7 SD's)
    Residual: %61

    Total out of pocket (not including SD's): $1500 (so its about $520 cap cost reduction, while $980 are fees and whatnot).

    Now, my monthly payment including California sales tax (%8.25) is $509.11 BUT when I calculate it on paper, I get $500.67, not even including the cap cost reduction.
    What am I doing wrong?

    I know this is a great deal and I already signed, but the $9 more a month is confusing me since those are the actual numbers.
  • vnaar1vnaar1 Member Posts: 1
    i am about to get a new lease on a new 328 sedan. what are the mf rates and % off of msrp for may. should i wait till next month or buy now?
  • topgun7topgun7 Member Posts: 412
    "Infiniti and Audi also have a similar plan. I think Lexus does, as well, but I'm not certain about that."

    Yes, Lexus has it also and limited to 9 deposit. I used it for an 02 LS and 02 SC and saved 100 or so a month in both cases (including tax and finance charge).
  • r74gr74g Member Posts: 6
    nice deal

    what dealer did you go to??

    i am looking to get something within the next two weeks...
  • leigh7leigh7 Member Posts: 2
    i live in north carolina and couldn't get any dealer here to take 2k off MSRP for the new 328 convertible. they all want extra for the mats also. MSRP is $50,425 (base price $43,200 destination $775 metallic $475 premium $2650 steptronic $1275 logic sound system $1200 comfort access $500 park distance $350) and invoice is $46,480. the most i got off from calling around is $1200. is it just me? where do you live pearl?
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 267,565
    Big difference between a sedan and a convertible.... $1200 off isn't unusual.. they've only been out a month or so..

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  • thefilmmakingthefilmmaking Member Posts: 2
    I shopped around for about a month and got this rate after breaking down the costs using the April lease rates and e-mailing all the dealers in So Cal, but the best deal I got was from Pacific BMW. I tried taking it to 500 over invoice, but they wouldn't budge, and 200 less isn't exactly that big of a deal considering the payments and whatnot.

    But the $9 extra a month is still confusing me. How much do you think they would charge for cargo and mats and whatnot?
  • pepperjackpepperjack Member Posts: 12
    Little misconception? Apparently! Though, thanks to you and everyone's input, I think I now understand pretty much all I need to. And so today I made the following offer to five dealerships, incorporating vsaxena's tip re the downpayment-to-MSD ratio:

    "Thank you for your assistance, and please consider my following offer on 36 mo., 12K mi/yr lease of 328i, jet black, beige leatherette, walnut or poplar trim, auto, sport pkg, pwr seats, the nice floor mats, MSRP $37,165:

    "Down Payment: $150

    "Adjusted Cap Cost: $35,850 (e.g., includes $775 dest/hand fee, $625 acq fee, $500 title/reg/doc fees, etc.)

    "MF: 0.0014, reduced to 0.00091 by 7 additional MSDs @ $400.00 each (e.g., 0.00007 MF reduction per MSD based on $399.37/mo payment before sales tax)

    "Residual: 63%

    "Amt due @ signing, before sales tax: $3749.73 (e.g., $150 down payment, $400 sec dep, $2800 additional MSDs, $399.37 1st mo lease payment.)

    "Disposition fee @ lease end: $350.00.

    "Also, the auto and pwr seats aren’t that important to me – I’d be happy to submit an adjusted offer if something was available w/o one or both options.

    "Thank you in advance for your consideration, and please know I look forward to hearing from you."
  • donnabgood1donnabgood1 Member Posts: 39
    I don't know, but I am a big fan of the KISS way of doing things. (KISS -- keep it simple/stupid). Why not just send an email to various internet departments asking how much over invoice they can structure a deal for? Tell them the options that are important to you, and see what they come up with. Keep in mind MSRP as far as I know has a 7% markup from invoice. You can do the math and see if you are getting a fair shake -- 500-1000 dollars over is considered a good deal. You know what the money factor is, let them know that you are also are considering max security dep, lowering your buy rate to .91..anyway less is more sometimes..good luck with your neigoitions just my 2 cents.. donna
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