2013 and earlier BMW 3-Series Prices Paid and Buying Experience

blueguydotcom

Word is the rebates are ending June 30.

scsnospam

I am about to take delivery on a new 330i. The dealer has agreed on $500 over invoice (including $2400 rebate).

1. Is this a good price ?
2. My plan is to lease the car for 3 years. So is it better to lease at the current buy price, with an MF of 0.22 (i hope), or wait for the lease incentive (if one is coming up) ?
3. I figure that if I lease, and invest the $10k to $20k I was going to put down if I were to purchase, I would make enough to cover the ~ $2k difference between lease vs buy. This way, I have the option to return the car for any unforseen reason, or buy it after 3 years. What do you think ?

This is a great board. Thanks all for their comments !

BK

blueguydotcom

Is this a good price ?

$500 over invoice with the rebate?! He's killing you. It'd save you $1500 to simply buy the car from a socal dealer and have them ship it to you for $300-400 bucks. Or fly out to socal and drive it back yourself.

2. My plan is to lease the car for 3 years. So is it better to lease at the current buy price, with an MF of 0.22 (i hope), or wait for the lease incentive (if one is coming up) ?

Buy price will probably be better. But then again BMW sometimes offers MF at or below 12. Use leaseguide and run the numbers both ways.

3. I figure that if I lease, and invest the $10k to $20k I was going to put down if I were to purchase, I would make enough to cover the ~ $2k difference between lease vs buy. This way, I have the option to return the car for any unforseen reason, or buy it after 3 years. What do you think ?

Crunch the numbers. I did with my BMW purchase and discovered my lease with a 3 year loan afterward at 6.5% was cheaper than buying the 330i outright over 60 months at 2.9%.

scsnospam

My mistake !

The price is $500 over invoice, less $2400. So actually, it is $1500 less than invoice !

Thanks,
BK

penn5

i talked to several dallas area dealerships this week re:
bmw330i w/PP,xenon,auto
msrp 41,615
invoice roughly 38,200

despite the june incentive of $2400, i could not get the low, low price i wanted. i tried to get $1000-1500 below invoice. they just shook their heads. the best offer i got was for $650 under invoice.

kyfdx

It varies according to local competition and area of the country.. Here, you couldn't get a $1000 over cost deal if you were buying from your mother.. But, head up the road a couple hours, and that is doable.... $1700 over cost is not a terrible price on a $40K car, it just seems excessive when compared to the more competitive regions.. (socal, for instance).

Assuming the new lease incentives are a wash, compared to the current cash incentives, then the deal won't get any worse or better next month.. If they want $1700 over cost now, they'll want $1700 over cost then also..

scsnospam.. That is a pretty strong offer.. I doubt with that low of a cap cost now, that the lease deal could be much better next month, without the cash incentive.

penn5.. There is some dealer in Texas advertising great deals.. I'll look around and get back to you..

regards,
kyfdx

kyfdx

http://www.shopautobahn.com/Flash/325iSale.html

vancmt

Thanks for the feedback around the incentive deadline. Still trying to get a sense of what is reasonable for a 4 dr 325i Titanium Silver/Sand leatherette with either:

Choice #1 Automatic, sunroof, power seats, rear side impact bag

Choice #2 Automatic, premium package, rear side impact bag

Looking to close the deal by June 30th, so any guidance would be appreciated

kyfdx

Got MSRP's for the those two cars? And have you found them in stock? I was thinking rear side impact airbags might be a rare option...

kyfdx

Not sure about side impact rear airbags.. standard maybe?

Anyway, 325i with metallic paint, auto, and premium package..

MSRP $33645
Inv. $30885
incentive -$1200
Dealer "cost" $29,685

Assuming they have the car on the lot that you want, I'd start them out at $30K and see what happens.. They may have a MACO advertising charge on their invoice that would make their "cost" a little higher, but I would think that $31K would make it happen at the top end.

That is all supposition on my part, from the feedback of others shopping for similar cars.

regards,
kyfdx

penn5

thanks kyfdx for the link. i actually emailed the internet guy there about the 330i i wanted. i think i offended him because he wouldn't give me a counteroffer after i "lowballed" him. since they were offering $5500 off on some of their 325i's, i figured i could get the same off a 330i, which even has a higher dealer rebate. but i guess most dealers have alot more 325i's just sitting on the lot so they are more motivated to move the 325i's.

kyfdx

Yeah.. you'd think you could get at least that deal on a 330i. You could always drive up there and see what they have and what they'll do.. Nothing works like a solid offer with checkbook in hand.

regards,
kyfdx

kyfdx

One of my old high school classmates is an assistant police chief in Fort Worth.. Want me to have her stop by and rough the guy up a bit? LOL

penn5

nah, that's ok. it's their loss. i'll sit on the sidelines awhile and wait to see what lease incentives bmw offers over the next few months. if i wait a couple of months, i'll also get to see what changes bmw will be making for the 05 3series.

riez

Are you sure it has optional rear side impact airbags? Are these side curtain airbags? The 5 Series added standard side curtain airbags in MY03.

Rear side airbags (non-curtain) were available as a rare special order option in the early model years of the E46. Thinking you could get them in '00. But I thought they went away around '01 or '02.

kyfdx

'05 3-series..

Not many changes... At least initially, sunroof is standard, as is wood trim. Not much else that I have heard....

5150

Went to Peter Pan BMW in San Mateo, CA and hated their customer service. Finally got SF BMW to match carsdirect.com quote on a 330i w/ ZHP Performance Pkg, Xenon, Heated seats, and moonroof. About $1k below invoice - $2400; essentially dealer wants $1400 profit + whatever holdbacks they get. I didn't negotiate hard since I wasn't sure if I wanted to spend $39k+tax/fees to purchase or if I should lease for 3 yrs. Is this a good deal for this region? Lease or buy? If I buy I think I'd want a new car in 5 years, so how much do you think the 330i is worth with 55k miles in 2009?

blueguydotcom

Call some So Cal dealers. You could save one grand on that price without blinking. You're getting raked over the coals. One $35 southwest ticket to San Diego or Irvine/OC and you're good to go. Heck if you buy the car, they'll probably meet you at the airport and take you to your car.

Is it worth a grand to you?

And whenever you lease you negotiate the price first. The sales price v. msrp is major key in how much you pay on a lease. If you're 2k below invoice and the MSRP is 43k, you're saving major money per month on a lease.

And I have a feeling the e46 BMW will be pretty worthless by 2009. The e90 is going to be a pretty big leap.

smug01

I agree with the recommendation to try SoCal dealers. I have been searching for the following car:

330Ci w/ ZHP
Moonroof
Zenons
Heated seats
Alcantara Interior
6-spd manual

MSRP: $44970 (Including BMW Assist, which it seams all new models are now optioned with)

The best I could get from a NoCal dealer was $42k and they didn't even spend the time to locate a car...said I would have to special order and wait 90 days. I just negotioated a deal from a SoCal dealer for the car at $40k with a 0.0024 MF, should I decide to lease. This seams like a pretty fair deal and the car should be received by the dealer this weekend. I will likely lease the vehicle, hoping that the next month's lease incentive (if there is one) will be a wash.

5150

Thanks! So the sales person says that for leases the money factor and residual are set by the bank and depends on the mileage per year I choose. Is that bull or should I demand better? Is the residual value calculated on the negotiated price or the MSRP? I assume the money factor is based on a person's credit rating too and the dealer gets a spread for profit taking. I'm green to leasing and I figure at the end of the lease I can buy or walk away to see if this model e46 will hold its value after 3 years.

I'm heading down to Riverside next month, I may have to visit some dealers near by. My friend referred me to Irvine BMW as volume dealer.

SF bmw offer:
3yr lease 12k mi/year; 54% residual, $642, mf=.00275, dep:$650, dmv $312.
msrp: 43095/invoice:$39750; sale price $38750;
Options: 330i w/ ZHP,Moonroof, Xenon, heated seats

blueguydotcom

That car as configured with metallic paint is only 43,270 on BMW's site. Which puts invoice at 40k. Drop another 2k-1.5k from that price with the rebate and now you're talking.

Secondly, do you have a costco membership? If so, find out the dealer in your area who does Costco pricing. Find out their markup. $500 over invoice before rebates? $1000?

For instance, in San Diego Cunningham BMW does $400 over invoice with Costco. Add in the rebate and you're at 2k under invoice.

38k for that car sounds a whole lot better.

kyfdx

Residuals are set by the lender and cannot be changed.. And they are always based on MSRP. The MF is also set by the lender, but BMWFS allows the dealer to bump it by .0004

There is also a bump for waiver of security deposit (.00015) and acquisition fee (.00030, I think). I thought the current base MF on 3-series was .0022, so it looks like maybe they are waiving acqusition and bumping a little..

regards,
kyfdx

blueguydotcom

Thanks! So the sales person says that for leases the money factor and residual are set by the bank and depends on the mileage per year I choose. Is that bull or should I demand better?

Residual is usually set. It's based on the MSRP - not your sale price.

Money factor - BMW has a buy rate for dealers and then they mark it up as they wish. The buy rate is anywhere from .0001 lower to 0.0005 lower. This is a negotiable thing. If they're cool they'll admit their buy rate and you can give them a point or two. You're doing them the favor by buying.

Is the residual value calculated on the negotiated price or the MSRP?

MSRP. If they say negotiated price...RUN! They're scamming you majorly.

I assume the money factor is based on a person's credit rating too and the dealer gets a spread for profit taking. I'm green to leasing and I figure at the end of the lease I can buy or walk away to see if this model e46 will hold its value after 3 years.

Yes to both things. Leaseguide.com is a tremendous help in figuring out your lease deals. And the lease walk-away option was key for me when going with a BMW. If the car is unreliable or if the E90 clobbers resale, I don't want to drop 25k on my used bimmer.

I'm heading down to Riverside next month, I may have to visit some dealers near by. My friend referred me to Irvine BMW as volume dealer.

Irvine has a good rep. I'd say hit them up and if you don't see numbers you like, try Cunningham in San Diego. And as I told someone else, check with Costco on the LA/OC coscto dealers.

SF bmw offer:
3yr lease 12k mi/year; 54% residual, $642, mf=.00275, dep:$650, dmv $312.
msrp: 43095/invoice:$39750; sale price $38750;
Options: 330i w/ ZHP,Moonroof, Xenon, heated seats

They're making out like bandits on that. The residual isn't so hot. The MF is so-so decent and they've got $1300 profit instantly.

smug01

The vehicle I am receiving has an MSRP of $44970 and an Invoice of $41150, according to Edmunds. My price is $1070 below invoice, so if you factor in the $2400 incentive, the adjusted price would be $1330 above invoice (minus the incentive). The dealer says, and I'm not sure if he was feeding me a line, that all sales are charged a 1% "advertising fee" by BMW...which would leave this guy at ~$900 "profit". While not great, the guy had to do a dealer swap to get the car since nobody has a car like this (Performance Package, w/cloth, w/ manual trans.), that I could find, on their lot. I checked a bunch of dealers and nobody could do any better, since everyone wanted to order the vehicle from the factory.

blueguydotcom

The vehicle I am receiving has an MSRP of $44970 and an Invoice of $41150, according to Edmunds.

no. Build it at BMWUSA.com and then compare that build price to Carsdirect. I like Edmunds but their facts and figures are most often wrong.

Unless you're getting navi or something odd, the features you mention ring up far lower.

and I'm not sure if he was feeding me a line, that all sales are charged a 1% "advertising fee" by BMW

That's a padder too. Find a dealer who doesn't charge bogus fees like Maco and such. If they want you to pay for advertising, training, etc...don't. They're padding their numbers.

(Performance Package, w/cloth, w/ manual trans.), that I could find, on their lot.

Again, talk to other dealers. He's playing you.

I checked a bunch of dealers and nobody could do any better, since everyone wanted to order the vehicle from the factory.

I recall 2 San Diego dealers offering to get another car from another dealer for me for $300 extra. They claimed that was for shipping.

Regardless, build the car on BMWUSA, check that price against Carsdirect. A 45k ZHP with the limited features you mentioned should be less than 43k msrp.

goochman

Heres what I ended up paying for a June 30th delivery:

325xi Steel Blue Metallic
Black Leather w/Aluminum Trim
Prem Package
Cold Package
Sport Package
Auto Tranny
Xenon Headlights

MSRP was $39645 (approx)
Invoice was $36325
Im paying $36800 - this includes $300 for shipping since the car was coming from another dealer out of state. Im sure I couldve haggled for 5 or 6 hrs to get the price down more but I feel good about my deal. Im located in MD and not SoCal so I dont think I couldve done that much better - maybe another $200?

The 1 thing I am bummed about is the 325 doesnt have lumbar support and the 330 does offer it.........I cant swing the extra $5-6K more for a 330.

mc_chow

kyfdx,

I live in DFW. Is this a good deal per your experience?
Dealer MSRP $35,795
Sale price $35,795 - $5,500 + $150 (floor mats) = $30,445
Cars Direct invoice = $33,097 (same config)

From their website, it shows they still have two with similar
config. Blue with Tan and Silver with Gray. I personally
like the Silver better. Too bad no HK sounds.

Regards
mc_chow

kyfdx

If they will sell it for that price, you should grab it.. It is below cost...

regards,
kyfdx

rroyce10

..... ** And yes, there is NO moonroof **

               It's the kiss of death new, and it will be like trying to sell the German Measles used .l.o.l...

                             Terry.

blueguydotcom

Don't worry about resale. The ZHP package is for someone who wishes BMW would wake up and make an M3 sedan. Someone who wants more sport. When you go to sell it enthusiasts will be interested even without the roof.

Plus, do you buy the car for what you want or what some invisible buyer desires in 5 years? Reminds me of the idiot salespeople who tell me to buy an automatic as it's worth more when I resell. Great, spend more money for a feature that removes fun from the car and will make me hate the vehicle. That's brilliant.

jamesspot

Since my daily drivers beyond college have lasted 114k (8 years) and 171k (15 years), I'm not really worried about resale. I bought the car I wanted to keep and to drive.

I have wanted a sport package E46 sedan since '99, but sea duty (leaving a nice car on the pier) and a stock market downturn delayed this purchase.

My ZHP is a balanced car: a 4 door sedan (for family), with lots of safety features (grouped as a 330i for insurance), and with the handling of an M-tuned suspension, wheels/tires, and short-shifter for me. It lacks only the immediacy of the M3 engine in return for less money, better gas mileage, lower insurance costs, and reduced maintenance.

The moonroof does eat up some headroom and decrease reliability for the reward of opening up the view and air circulation. I'm 6'5" and fit more comfortably without it. The 330i's come standard with power seats - I would have saved the $995 on those in a heartbeat for the increased reliability of the manual sport seat.

Oh, and for those that say WHY this mid-40's guy delayed his car purchase so long, my "day job" F18 out accelerates (on a catapult, anyway), out turns, out stops (with arresting gear), and out runs an F1 car.

I just fit in an F/A-18 cockpit as well...Great moonroof ...but you leave it CLOSED until it's time to get out.

Jim

kdshapiro

"Oh, and for those that say WHY this mid-40's guy delayed his car purchase so long, my "day job" F18 out accelerates (on a catapult, anyway), out turns, out stops (with arresting gear), and out runs an F1 car."

Yes, but does it get better gas mileage?

djsway

I'm looking for a 2004 325ci sport package with auto and moonroof. Anyb ody can help me with pricing? What is the invoice and what should I pay for this car? Thanks all!

jamesspot

Good one, KD!

Hornet at max range is roughly 1 mile per 1.5 gallons, which is a little worse than an F1 car at WOT.

In full blower on the deck, the entire field of 20 cars doesn't use as much fuel as an FA-18 to go a mile (in 5 seconds, though).

Strike fighter pilots sweat fuel way more than race car drivers. A full load of fuel can last 10 minutes / or 2 hours.

Jim

seabush

I'm looking at an 330ix with a MSRP of $45,370 (invoice $41,560). What price should I be shooting for with the dealer?

kyfdx

Through June 30th (Wednesday), there is a $2400 manufacturer to dealer incentive on the 330xi. After that, it will be replaced with lease incentives.

A good deal would be from $1000 to $1500 under invoice, although you might want to make your first offer under that. $40,000 would be about $840 over dealer cost... You might want to start at $39,500.

I'm not sure where you are from, or what the market is like in your area. Be advised, some dealers aren't really keen on making great deals.. Great deals are around, but not every dealer will make you one. My local dealer would eat a car, before taking a $1K profit deal...

regards,
kyfdx

rroyce10

..... ** Don't worry about resale ** ...

              If the new owner is too tall, or hopefully they know they will have the vehicle for the next 5/6/7+ years and will roll-up some real tall miles, then a slider and an automatic might not make up much difference ... so your salesperson wasn't being an "idiot", he was just being honest and reflecting the "real deal" market.

                 But the market is changing fast and most folks are trading their vehicles (or at least trying to .l.o.l.) in 30 months or less and a sport model without a hole in the roof can be a crusher by $2,0/$3,000, pull the auto out and it gets ugly after that, it will diminish the "buying" market by 80%+ ..

                 Real enthusiast buyers love to look and feel, but are slow when it comes to the "Hip National Bank", real slow, plus they are only a very small part of the market .... the nice thing about having ALL the toys is, it takes some of the pain away when you have a handshaker and you go to sell it in the short term years ....................

                        Terry.

blueguydotcom

so your salesperson wasn't being an "idiot", he was just being honest and reflecting the "real deal" market.

If a man says he wants a ham sandwich with rye and swiss, don't tell him to get bologna instead. Good salespeople listen to what the person wants. 95% of the salespeople working dealerships push what they want you to buy. Automatics, all the trimmings, whatever is on the lot.

You don't buy a sports sedan to please the next buyer if that means it will detract from all measure of enjoyment of that vehicle. Why buy a 330i if the driving experience is miserable? That's the height of idiocy. you might as well buy an accord in that case.

by $2,0/$3,000, pull the auto out and it gets ugly after that, it will diminish the "buying" market by 80%+ ..

So again, sacrifice your pleasure for 30 months?

the nice thing about having ALL the toys is, it takes some of the pain away when you have a handshaker and you go to sell it in the short term years ....................

The bad part being you've got a vehicle that's uncomfortable (in the case of our tall friend) or just not terribly much fun to drive (my view of automatics).

rroyce10

** If a man says he wants a ham sandwich with rye and Swiss, don't tell him to get bologna instead **

             Good point - but, if the ham sandwich with rye and Swiss has been just sitting around the restaurant for 2/3 days and the buyer wasn't notified, then let him get sick ..?

              ** You don't buy a sports sedan to please the next buyer if that means it will detract from all measure of enjoyment of that vehicle. Why buy a 330i if the driving experience is miserable? That's the height of idiocy **

                 This is not a "you" thing, this a "market" thing .. if you are aware of all the facts "upfront" then it makes little or no difference on what *you* purchase, but most folks don't ..

                 I have bought and sold plenty of "3's" and bunches of 330's, most buyers could care less if it's a 325 or a 330 -If- it's properly optioned, because then it becomes price and price becomes payments .. and yes, once in a blue moon you will find someone that will purchase a base 2dr 325 with cloth, or no roof or both with a meat clever, but these are also the same folks that wonder why their resale value is tubed at trade time, but if they are aware upfront, then it makes no difference ...

                  For the real "enthusiast" it will make little difference if it's green with a blue interior, as long as they can get the feel of the road and a few speeding tickets .l.o.l...

                Remember this is a market thing, not a You thing ..

                           Terry.

lee_w

Please try to stay on topic here. May want to also try the Sedans or BMW-3 owners club. Thanks

smug01

"Through June 30th (Wednesday), there is a $2400 manufacturer to dealer incentive on the 330xi. After that, it will be replaced with lease incentives."

kyfdx: Are you aware of what those incentives may be? I am receiving a 330Ci on Wendsday in time for the current $2400 incentive, but I am leasing. Would it be advantagous to let the dealer slide a day and pick up the next lease incentive?

kyfdx

No one knows until they happen... It would have to be a really big lease incentive to make up for $2400.

If it were the 325i, with the $1200 incentive, it might be worth taking a chance... but, if you have a good price, I wouldn't chance the $2400.

regards,
kyfdx

kyfdx

That $2400 is worth about $72/month on a lease.. so, you can see how big the lease incentive would have to be...

regards,
kyfdx

5150

With this $2400 incentive is this the best time to buy 330i or are these incentives common at this time of year? Based on your past experience, do you think they'll have such a large incentive in December and also for the 2005 model next year (June '05) just before the next generation style is starting to roll out?

Thanks in advance for your reply.

blueguydotcom

Last year the incentives went higher by september/october. but pickings wee slim. especially for the 330i as far fewer are produced than the more common 325i.

If you want the car now, then go for it if 1k or so is worth a summer driving it.

kyfdx

Last year, the 325i incentives hit $2K in October or November and the 330i incentives were either $2500 or $3K (memory fails me). BUT, when I went shopping in late November, each of the two local dealers only had 3-4 cars each.. With the myriad options and colors available on a 3-series, finding something you want with only that selection is almost impossible (it was impossible.. I bought a used one in December).

Although BMW does a lot of lease incentive programs, last year was the first time I can recall them having substantial dealer cash incentives.. I wouldn't bet on them in the future.. If I was interested in a 330i, I would be trying to close a deal today.

If you think you might lease, good deals seem to peak in March, and that goes for most manufacturers.

regards,
kyfdx
(putting my crystal ball away)

kenjabi

Just to clarify, it seemed to me that smug was right about his prices, because he's getting a coupe, not a sedan (see post #1503). Looks like you were pricing the sedan and getting lower numbers than him because of it. I'm not sure if it affects your recommendations to him or not.

smug - how's the shopping going? Have you gotten it yet?

blueguydotcom

I never saw 330ci. I apologize for that error.

blueguydotcom

Did you price it on Carsdirect? I did that same car up and hit an invoice of 39.6. That looks like a 900 profit or so. If you're comfy with the deal, take it. 38k for a 330i ZHP is a deal I wish I'd snagged! You could always push more. The incentives end today though...

5150

I just ran the invoice prices on edmunds, kbb.com, and carsdirect.com. Edmunds & kbb have the same invoice at $38k, but carsdirect is about $40k. Very confusing???? I assume the carsdirect invoice is padded with MACO and other profitable fees in sheeps clothing.