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Ford Ranger vs Toyota Tacoma

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Comments

  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 9,287
    If you guys want this topic to stay around, it HAS to get away from the personal beef that you guys OBVIOUSLY have with each other. NOBODY has said anything new or different in here in a long time, and this is getting really old.


    If you can't argue about the merits of the trucks without getting personal about it, then it leaves me no choice.


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  • We are gonna get shut down again! So, I have an idea:

    Unless you have a Ranger or Tacoma, don't show up in here (goodbye TBunder!). The Liberty is not a truck, it is an SUV. So take your discussions elsewhere.

    Pluto - Don't know what you own, but unless it is a Tacoma, you need to get lost as well.

    I think this forum is a riot, though, and the moderator should just let it go. It always brightens my day to see people going at each others throats over vehicles! Reminds me of the old days when I would fight Accord Coupe owners who thought my BMW M3 was inferior!

    Ahhhhh the good ol days!

    Obi
  • saddaddysaddaddy Posts: 566
    I am speechless. Well not quite --

    Stang - nothing on my 67 for now. It'll likely be a couple of years until I get really serious about it. I was looking at a Jegs catalog the other nite though. Would that be a good place to start, along with maybe some mustang websites? I know alot of folks like to keep their cars stock, and some turn them into lightning fast rigs like yours - I wanna stay somewhere in the middle. Whatever I do, it will have to stay very streetable, but very sporty and, most importantly, that nasty light yellow color. LOL. Kinda like a face only a mother could love.

    And on another note, not trying to show my a$$ or anything, but what is wrong with what is going one here that would envoke suspension from the mods. I mean, sure it gets monotonous and a little off topic - but are we causing some loss of money on Edmunds part? The last week or so has been the busiest I can remember for this topic, and there hasn't been any blatant wrongs done I my eyes. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
  • I have both trucks in my fleet at work. They are both excellent trucks, great values, and drop dead dependable.

    Recalls notwithstanding, there are some differences that make it easy for me to choose the Ranger over the Taco every time I need to drive one. Most of these difference involve the driver experience.

    The Taco is the most uncomfortable seat on the planet. It's too low, zero support and gives me a backache in 2 miles. It is also the most least fun to drive truck of the two. Very plain, unexciting and cheap feeling to me.

    The Ford has zip, handles better, sits comfortably and is fun to drive.

    Beyond these personal preferences, there's not a dimes worth of difference between the two. They're both great little trucks.
  • frey44frey44 Posts: 230
    Do any of you guys use Bilsteins on your Ranger 4x4 's ? Any advice ? there is an advertised special on those shocks now, and I am thinking of upgrading for a better (less "jittery") HIGHWAY ride (I don't go offroad much). Will these help calm the shakes, or make it worse ?
  • eagle63eagle63 Posts: 599
    what model year is the tacoma you drive? A number of people complain about the seats, but I've been told that Toyota improved them in later models. I've test driven a couple of 2002 Tacomas and thought the seats were pretty comparable to my Explorer.
  • tbunder1tbunder1 Posts: 257
    please get the facts straight before you post inaccurate information. it makes you look better.


    curb weight- 4x4 liberty: 3857 lbs.

    curb weight- 4x4 tacoma xtra cab: 3540 lbs. hmmm....600 lbs. in favor of the tacoma? lmao


    rear diff. size- 4x4 or 4x2 liberty- 8.25" (DANA)

    rear diff. size- 4x4 V6 tacoma 4x4- 8.25" (crap)

    hmmmm again...can you say wrong plutonium?


    as far as comparing sheetmetal and a "truck frame" to the liberty's high strength sheetmetal and welded (together) sheets of uniframe, i do not think you want to go there. if anyone would be cracking and twisting on the trails, common sense should tell you that that would be you. here, read this article. you may learn something- maybe the difference in tacoma's pop can sheetmetal compared to liberty's high strength alloy steel.


    http://www.car-buying-strategies.com/2002-Jeep-Liberty-safety.html


    also you diss the liberty for problem issues. well, in it's first year of production, it had only two recalls. the same number the tacoma had in it's first year in '95. tsb's don't mean anything. i honestly think that toyota is too arrogant to post as many tsb's as it could. same with the recalls.


    you also say the DOHC design is better than the "old ancient" design of the SOHC. well, if this is true why doesn't your tacoma engine make more power and torque than my "old and ancient" 3.7 liter jeep engine? it's got the "superior" DOHC design and is still down 20 horse and 15 lb/ft of torque. and really, the 3.7 is just the jeep GC V8 (4.7 i believe) that has been hailed by many auto enthusiasts as one of the best V8's produced. plus, even tacoma owners are complaining of how rough and loud the DOHC design 3.4 tacoma engine is.


    i don't know what you were thinking when you posted your mis-information about the jeep and tacoma, but surely you can do better research than that. as far as your other babbling, like stang said, you are like spam. you don't even make sense. i like how you still haven't replied to any of the posts i wrote showing how the liberty has a greater gvwr rating than tacoma 4x4, how it has better approach/departure angles than any tacoma, even Regular Cabs. and how it gets better mileage, has more power and torque, and serious off-road hardware like real towhooks- front and rear, dana axles all around, iron steering knuckle, cast iron lower a-arms, forged steel upper a-arms, real skidplates and not the ones mounted to the component they're protecting like your cheap tacoma incorporates, i could go on and on, but i know you won't reply.


    oh yeah, my flares haven't fallen off either like the 2002 tacoma's are evidently doing. hilarious.


    better luck next time my man. as i say, don't you just hate facts? especially when you haven't checked them.

  • sc0rpi0sc0rpi0 Posts: 897
    approach angle: I told you already, with dinky tires it does not mean much. Yes, it's nice, after all, it's a Jeep.
    serious offroad hardware:
    1. real towhooks. Post some info where it says Tacoma towhooks aren't real. If I remember correctly, Liberty has towhooks as an option, and not standard equipment (Imagine that! On a Jeep!). HOw much did you pay for towhooks? I just went down to the nearest 4WheelParts store and got me some.
    2. Dana axles: it's a jeep, what do you expect? And Danas arent invulnerable.
    3. A-arms: here you go again, making things up. Just because having overbuilt components makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside, does not mean it's a good thing. I say for the tenth time: show me some Tacoma with failed A-arms.
    4. Skidplates: well, can't say anything here.
    5. Fender flares: You said "Tacoma's", plural. So far it was a one single "Tacoma". Uno. It's October of 2002, and there is so far one single Tacoma with that problem in 2002.

    Quit making up things. You generalize on one occurence. If that's the case, Ranger now comes with a 6-CD changer that melts CDs. Yes, there was a single occurence of that, but according to your approach, 2001 Rangers are now melting CDs.

    I haven't heard any reply about how DC now sells it in extra-pimp version with 17" Chrome wheels.
  • Isn't it a PITA having to constantly research to prove somebody else's nonsense inaccurate? Tell me, how does your own medicine taste?

    Let's see, we have exaggerated claims of curb weight, differential sizes, frame strength, engine performance, etc.

    C'mon, even with your limited memory, this should ring a bell to you. Aren't these the same things you lied about when you made Tacoma and Ranger comparisons?
  • Even I will concede that the 2002 Ranger's seats are more comfortable than my 1998 Tacoma's. But what still surprises me is the lack of headrests, especially for us taller people. That's simply inexcusable, IMO.

    I've been in two rear-end collisions as a passenger and even with headrests, it was ugly. The Ranger's "surf-board" seatback only extends to the base of my neck; I can only imagine what a good rear-ender could do.

    **TBUNDY** can post his usual nonsense again about this - the Ranger's seatback and the Tacoma's are the same height off the floor. Even if its true and not another home-grown lie, it doesn't change the fact the Ford's seatback is an unsafe design.

    I'm surprised the government and insurance companies doen't require a headrest.

    Tacoma's aren't fun to drive? I've had a ball for the past four+ years driving mine. Older tests showed the Tacoma beat the Ranger in every performance category - acceleration, cornering, braking and off-roading. Maybe the Ranger is now on par with the Tacoma's acceleration but unless the suspension has changed, it will still take a back-seat to the Tacoma's handling.

    Just differences in opinion...
  • tbunder1tbunder1 Posts: 257
    can you say change the subject? lmao

    as far as the "pimpy looking" 17's, i don't see the light in that one. the F150 has been using 17's for seven years. are they pimpy? so if you consider anything chromed "pimpy", you better go spray paint your chrome tacoma bumpers. they look "pimpy" after all.

    i am done throwing facts your way that you can't defend. it is a waste of my time. you guys have swayed all of them and personally, i find it quite hilarious.

    about the "one owner" who has flares falling off. well, i am the only owner who had a bad fuel pump. and you all gave me crap for that. and i didn't even have to tell you.

    pluto- blah about the head restraints on the ranger- they're just as high as any tacoma. come to my house and we'll go to some dealers and measure together. you are the one making stuff up.

    scorp- making stuff up? i stated fact after fact- and you and pluto both have ignored to comment. how about pluto's theory that his DOHC design is far better when my old SOHC makes more power and torque, gets better fuel mileage, and has been hailed (in it's V8 config) as being one of the smoothest and most powerful V8's ever to grace a truck. i guess it's "power robbing" balancer doesn't rob as much as toyota's, eh? :o)- busting a gut here guys!!!!

    oh yeah- approach angle is just that. and you were wrong on the RC thingy. am i not right?
  • sc0rpi0sc0rpi0 Posts: 897
    Well, F150 is a fullsize pickup, and Liberty is an SUV...a compact SUV at that. So 17" rims look pimpy on it, especially chrome. It would be fine on other vehicles, but when they are sold as an option on what you would like to call an offroader....that's just plain wrong.
    And my bumper is not chrome, but color-coded, so my truck is silver all way around.
    One owner with fender flare problem (and how you immediately jump to saying "fender flares falling off on 2002 Tacomas"): this is a prime example of you making things up. Should I point out another one? In the Liberty forums you said something like "But since 4Runners have an issue with sludged up engines I would stay away from them". Since you know perfectly well its not true, you are making things up.
    I don't know about the V6 vs V8 discussion, nor do I care. Take it up with pluto. And what RC thingy is that?
    Truth is: half of your facts are fiction. The Benz-like practices of building Liberties (while defending the huge number of recalls as being "early builds"...I wonder if Mercedes Benz sells horribly built expensive cars the first year and then tells people "Sorry....this is our first year building this"), the overgeneralization of a single problem (remember.....the fuel pump is being brought up because you posted the links about Benz practices), none of this is adding any credibility to what you are saying.
  • tbunder1tbunder1 Posts: 257
    to get some, reply to the facts i posted in the old thread. still nothing. and the 17's are for the limited liberty's- the luxury ones. sure you can have your cake and eat it too. nice looking 17's, however not for me, and still an off-road capable truck. and do you really call two recalls huge? i think you need to reread your post and correct your errors. i didn't write the benz like quote, it was a comment from a person who toured the plant with the plant foreman. i have posted that link numerous times. click it, you may learn something. pluto already has since he has started changing subjects and making excuses why he was wrong with all of his "facts". you guys kill me. ill repeat it- liberty had same amount of recalls it's first year as toyota tacoma had it's first year. the fact is- your tacoma is old hat; a really old design that is down on power and also down on refinement in the drivetrain area and build quality of inside materials. the jeep is a technologically advanced vehicle that the tacoma just can't compete with. every category shows the jeep ahead of the tacoma. that's laughable.

    what about that gvwr thing? RC thingy is you saying the RC taco having better approach angles than lib. isn't true as i've provided the facts that again, go against you. lmao
  • sc0rpi0sc0rpi0 Posts: 897
    It's not like Tacoma was designed last year...it's an 8 year old design, and the competition is playing catch-up. Yes, Liberty has a bigger engine.....what will you be saying next year when new Tacos come out?
    Liberty recalls: yes, you didn't write the quote, but you posted that link so many times it's obvious you like what that article says. For a vehicle that is built, according to that article, with traditions of Mercedes Benz, the list of problems is just too long.
    RC thingy: you went on and on about how Liberty would walk all over Tacome because it has shorter wheelbase. RC has wheelbase even shorter than Liberty. That's the RC thingy. I'm not arguying about approach angles. As I said, I am skeptical about the small tires. I've seen Liberty with 3" of lift try to climb up a ledge, it was not pretty.
  • The fact of the matter is when it comes to off-roading, your Liberty takes a backseat to the Wrangler. Why do you think in comparos (like the famous Wrangler vs. Tacoma vs. Hummer - Tacoma won by the way) the chosen contender from Jeep was a Wrangler?

    Behind your trademark Jeep grill and underneath all that "Ken & Barbie" foo-foo, you have just another cute-ute like all the rest. While I'm ecstatic you like your little cute-ute, I find it amusing you keep trying to convince us that it's something it's not - a "real" Jeep.

    I have also noted you have done your best to compare Ranger FX4s, S-10 ZR2s, Wranglers, Libertys etc. to the Tacoma. Just goes to show when you're #1, somebody's always trying to challenge you.

    If you had bought a Wrangler and were making the same claims to grandeur as you've done with your Liberty, maybe somebody here would take you seriously. Until then, you need to swallow your pride and acknowledge the fact the Liberty isn't in the same league as a Tacoma TRD or Wrangler.
  • frey44frey44 Posts: 230
    Read the history of its develpment. A major priority of the German designers was to sell this brand to SOCCER MOMS.
    Hence, it is overweight and has that "SOFT" look about it.
    If you want to offroad, get a real off roader.
  • tbunder1tbunder1 Posts: 257
    ok, ill take your advice. thx
    also, i'd love to read it's historic development. could you direct me to it? also, it's "overweight" simply because it's built like a sherman tank. it employs high strength sheetmetals and alloys. funny how you say it's "overweight", but pluto doesn't even think it weighs as much as you guys' tacomas.

    pluto- it's good to see you want to throw in the towel. you say i don't have a real off-roader. and it's just another cute ute. well, would you please tell me what other cute utes employ dana axles all around, a real direct shift transfer case (more real than your electronic one), real skidplates and not skinny metal like your tacoma ones that are bolted to the component they're protecting like your tacoma's- did you think of that design? how about my trac-loc rear diff, real towhooks-front and rear, more powerful engine than your "superior design" DOHC design truck has(laughable), not to mention it's awesome approach and departure angles and it's 10.2 ground clearance. nah, it's not a real off-roader. lmao

    did you finally realize you didn't have a 12" rear diff? you know, one that's "at least" 4" larger than my jeep's dana? how about those weight numbers you thought up? hilarious.

    ill agree that the liberty isn't in the same ballpark with the wrangler, but nothing is. the reason your trd tied the wrangler in that test is because the wrangler was an open diff as stang pointed out to you. are you bragging your trd tied an open diff'd wrangler? that's pathetic.
    the new rubicon will stomp any other 4x4 production vehicle ever built. it has no competition. and the reason i compare all those vehicles to your trd is because this is the name of the game around here. you know, toyota tacoma vs. ford ranger? and im defending my jeep to you guys because you people called it a mallrunner.

    also, i notice no comment on the DOHC 'superiority' design compared to my more powerful and more fuel efficient old and crappy SOHC balanced V6. LOL
  • eagle63eagle63 Posts: 599
    we should just rename this topic "whatever Tbunder is driving vs. the Tacoma?"
  • h0udinih0udini Posts: 118
    wreck today here in beautiful Coeur d'Alene. Corner of Seventh and Sherman. Seems like a Tacoma and Liberty decided to get it on in the middle of the intersection. Don't know who was at fault, but man, that Liberty looked like an exploded pop can with its innards all over the place. By comparison, the Tacoma looked remarkably intact. I realize the aftermath of a bad accident shouldnt be taken as a testimonial to a vehicle's strength, but I was shocked at the difference. I know which vehicle I'd rather be in.
  • Is that vehicle aside, you didn't mention if everybody walked away... and exploded pop can or not, that is what is supposed to happen. I'd rather a vehicle absorb most of the damage, instead of myself received the brunt of it...


    According to IIHS, the Liberty has a much better safety structure.

    www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/0127.htm



    According to NHTSA, The liberty mops up the Tacoma. 5 star to Tacoma's 3 star.


    http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/testing/ncap/

  • sc0rpi0sc0rpi0 Posts: 897
    Get ready for the long message from tbunder where he posts results from NHTSA showing how Liberty is rated higher than Tacoma.
    Any pix of the accident? What type was it? head-on/T-bone/?
  • The IIHS rated the Liberty overall as marginal:

    http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/0127.htm

    The IIHS rated the Tacoma overall as acceptable:

    http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/98003.htm


    In this case, I think h0udini's observations concur with what the IIHS reported. Go ahead and provide us with your skewed interpretations of the IIHS' results - they don't change the fact the IIHS rated the Tacoma higher.

    I suppose you've self-appointed yourself as IIHS' crash test analyst after you were impeached as our self-appointed moderator, huh? Oh well, at least you haven't lost your loyal supporter **TBUNDY**

  • sc0rpi0sc0rpi0 Posts: 897
    This has been a long arguement...IIHS also rates Tacoma same as Ranger, better in some areas and worse in others. It's all a matter of perspective: NHTSA rates Ranger higher, hence Ford fans ditch the IIHS. For Tacoma fans its the other way.
    I still think IIHS results have more practical use for head-on collisions, the only thing NHTSA results are good for is side collisions.
  • Putting words into other people's mouth again?
    What I said was concerning "Structure/safety cage". Librerty: Good, Tacoma: Acceptable. However, I should have added "in their respective vehicle classes".

    Also you need to be a bit more thorough on the websites you link to. The IIHS site itself says "Test results can be compared only among vehicles of similar weight."
    Right next to each crash result is the statement "IMPORTANT: Compared with other midsize utility vehicles--compare ratings only among vehicles of similar weight"

    The regular cab Tacoma at around 2700 pounds is much lighter than the Liberty at an estimated 4100 pounds.
    That weight is published neatly on the left side of the pages you provided links for.
    So any conclusion you make is unfortunately, invalid.

    Also IIHS kindly suggests that "[NHTSA] and [IIHS]tests complement each other", and as an informed consumer, you should look at the big picture, not just one orgnaization.
  • Do you see the kinds of problems we get into when people stray off topic? By stray, I mean certain posters constantly making comparisons to Tacomas, depending on which vehicle happens to be their favorite at any given minute.

    I believe your little lecture would be more appropriately aimed at **TBUNDY**, after all, he started the nonsense. Of course, such an obvious conclusion is all but invisible through your biased eyes.
  • However I also agree with anyone who wants to defend their own vehicle, opinions and choices. Maybe if you quit putting down the Liberty, Tbunder will less likely feel the need to defend it.

    Plus with the unrespectful statements you made in the last two paragraphs of your post #73, and the last paragraph in #76, I am much more likely to not see your side of any argument. You can't insult me and ask me to see your side in the same post.

    Scorpio--->NHTSA crash results are better for full collisions(front or side), while IIHS only does off-set collisions(front only). "Full" being defined as the entire front of the vehicle being hit, and off-set where only a foot or two of the vehicle is hit. All taken with a grain of salt, the sum of such information is much more valuable than any one test alone.
  • frey44frey44 Posts: 230
    I don't own a Taco, I own a Ranger (IMHO, its quality does not live up to the typical Toyota), and would prefer not to own either a Taco OR a Ranger. The truck for me in the future is a Tundra, or perhaps the new upcoming Chevy Colorado with the inline 5 or 6..we shall see [IF GM can solve their infamous abyssmal assembly quality problems]. In any event, I still think the Liberty is overweight and underpowered. My post still stands about the vehicle being marketed to attract women...a VERY lucrative market, and a smart move by the German automaker.
    Good luck with your Jeep. I think it has a GREAT motor, and never said otherwise.
  • saddaddysaddaddy Posts: 566
    RIGHT?!

    And I saw the numbers on the new I5 for GM, and that thing is weak! Much worse IMO, than the current 4.3L. 215HP @ 5600 and 225 @ 2800. Not bad, but not what I expected either.
  • tbunder1tbunder1 Posts: 257
    i don't quite understand your last post.

    "I still think the Liberty is overweight and underpowered."

    "Good luck with your Jeep. I think it has a GREAT motor, and never said otherwise."

    unless you are being sarcastic, i don't know what you mean. and as far as "underpowered", it currently has the highest horsepower in its class of any V6 offered by any manufacturer. how can that be underpowered.

    however the "german automaker" (last time i checked chrysler was an american automaker, owned by a foreign company) markets the liberty, it must be working as it is selling very well. i like the truck. it has everything i consider a 4x4 to have, and it will go anywhere i will ever want to take it. plus, it will haul my family to the grocery store and prevent me from plowing my driveway this winter as im sure it will laugh at snow with my new BFG's. you may want to check out www.pickuptruck.com, there is an article on the predicted crew cab tundra due out as an '04 model.
  • tbunder1tbunder1 Posts: 257
    wow, that must have been one huge mega coincidence to see a liberty and a tacoma in an accident together just when we're talking about the two vehicles.

    as you described it, the liberty exploded or had its guts lying all over the pavement or something. this statement i ponder, because according to the IIHS, the liberty has a higher rated safety cage. iow, the cage or passenger compartment is stronger on the liberty (a no brainer since the lib has welded sheets of high strength alloy steels underneath running the length of the vehicle as well as the roll cage under the roof). so im trying to figure out how a tacoma, which, according to the IIHS site (pluto's fave), is 1400 lbs. lighter than the 4100 lb. liberty. to be more accurate, the taco, which is actually only 300 lbs lighter (varying by model- RC 4x2 is 2700 lbs. according to IIHS) (all libs are the same weight) made the liberty "explode" and lay it's innards on the pavement. i won't debate this little scenario, i just hope no one got hurt. but it just sounds a little far fetched. of course, jmo.

    also, the NHTSA gives the lib five stars on front and side impacts. the taco got three starts.
  • tbunder1tbunder1 Posts: 257
    im still wondering if you still think you have a 12" rear diff. under your tacoma? you know, your axle that is "at least four inches bigger than the liberty's".

    hint: the liberty and tacoma share the same sized rear axles- 8.25. LOL

    also, still wondering what your take is on why my "old design" SOHC 3.7L engine makes more horsepower, torque and gets better mileage when compared to the "superior design" of your DOHC 3.4L. it shouldn't according to your theory, right? could you please explain to the forum why this is an exception? plagiarize an article or something. im dying to know what you find out. ;O)
  • How does one intelligently debate with somebody like you? In your escapades, you claim how great an offroader your Liberty is. Then you immediatly brag about its pork-like weight in your comparisons to other 4x4s. Hello, anybody home?? Excess weight is the last thing somebody wants in a 4x4! I'm astounded. I suppose I should go easy on somebody that forgets their own name and password and has to re-register, though LOL!


    If you can't recognize those exaggerated claims in my "tbundyish" post as a joke, well, the joke's even more on you, bub!


    Do you want to talk engines? Fine. Consider this:


    Tacoma's 3.4 V6:

    Horsepower 190 hp @ 4800 rpm

    Torque 220 lb.-ft. @ 3600 rpm


    Liberty's 3.7 V6:

    Horsepower 210 @ 5000 RPM

    Torque (lb-ft) 235 @ 4400 RPM


    That's pitiful. You have to go 800 RPMs higher to get a measly 15 more lb/ft torque in a BIGGER, NEWER engine! No thanks, you can keep your 3.7! That's because, like it or not, you do not have an advanced V6. With this kind of pathetic competition, it makes me wonder why Toyota even bothering developing their 4.0 V6.


    Now let's add insult to injury. You stated your Liberty weighs 4100lbs (I'm just going to use your figure without researching, no matter how inaccurate it may be). According to Edmunds, a V6 4x4 Tacoma Ex-cab - http://www.edmunds.com/new/2003/toyota/tacoma/2drxtracabv64wdsb34l6cyl5m/specs.html?id=lin0018 - so you don't accuse me of plagiarizing - weighs 3515 pounds. This breaks down to:


    Liberty: 19.52lbs per 1 horsepower

    Tacoma: 18.5lbs per 1 horsepower


    You see, your Liberty's pork-like curb weight completely cancels out its puny power advantage. Like so many people, it's overweight and underpowered (no offense if that applies to you). Maybe you need to strip that thing of all its foo-foo.


    Now would you please post something that relates to this topic? Last time I checked, a Liberty wasn't a Ranger.

  • sc0rpi0sc0rpi0 Posts: 897
    I can't believe nobody has mentioned the weight-power ratio until now.
    Even Taco DC, with its 3700 lbs of weight, has a slightly better ratio than Liberty.
  • saddaddysaddaddy Posts: 566
    If you compare the power (and torque) to displacement of each engine you find that they are about the same. However, the 3.7 only achieves that power at a significantly higher RPM. Advantage 3.4. At least by Ford guy standards, cuz that is what has mattered in past debates.
  • I'm glad you decided to adopt our standards! :) Now if we can only get this silly metric system out of the way....
  • sc0rpi0sc0rpi0 Posts: 897
    here


    Best part?

    "MB admits no liability and is settling "to avoid lengthy and expensive litigation""


    I guess having a vehicle built in "best traditions of Mercedes Benz" is not as good as it seems....

  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,124
    get into this room??
    These are two totally differnt vehicles. One is an SUV, the other a truck??
  • sc0rpi0sc0rpi0 Posts: 897
    tbunder bought the Liberty. It seems he thinks it's a "mini-Rubicon" and can walk all over Tacoma offroad.
  • tbunder1tbunder1 Posts: 257
    the reason i brought the liberty in on this discussion is because when i told the guys that i had bought one (due to a growing family), some said it was nothing more than a "mallrunner" and that was not a real off-roader. so i am just defending it. the toyota boys have a hard time accepting that it has nearly as much ground clearance (even with smaller tires), a more powerful and torquey engine, dana axles front and rear, better approach and departure angles, a factory off-road package with 4.10 gearing, and a lower geared low-range crawl than their TRD tacomas. that's it. also, i still like the two trucks.
  • saddaddysaddaddy Posts: 566
    new Renegade Liberties - I saw a commercial for em yesterday.
  • sc0rpi0sc0rpi0 Posts: 897
    Ground clearance: Well, 2" less than on a stock Tacoma...and that is with the 2002 version, one that's standing tall. 2003s are even lower.

    Powerful and torquey engine: I believe that was covered few posts up, Libertys' power to weight ratio is worse than Tacoma, even DC.

    Dana axles: Dana is Dana, no question. It's not indestructable. For purposes of Liberty, Dana axles are an overkill. Lets not forget that it's also IFS.

    Departure/Entry angles and lower gear ratio: that's basically the only thing you got going for you.

    Offroad package with 4.10 gearing: so what? Manual tranny Taco is 3.93, and auto is 4.10. That's with or without TRD.

    Liberty HAD a chance to be a good offroad vehicle, but blew it.
  • saddaddysaddaddy Posts: 566
  • tbunder1tbunder1 Posts: 257
    it seems as if you're mistaken.

    comparing torque between the 3.7 and 3.4:

    jeep: 15.74 lb/ft per CC.
    toyota: 15.45 lb/ft per CC.

    it seems that you toyota guys have forgotten what is important in a 4x4- torque. even the SOHC 4.0 Ford has the toyota beat at 16.32 lb/ft per CC. you bring up a pretty pathetic argument, and one you haven't done your homework on evidently.

    and please stop misleading people. the liberty has 10.2 inches of GC compared to tacoma's standard "claimed" 10.8. and a TRD with 12 inches. although im still trying to figure out where there is 12" of GC other from frame to ground, and in that case i have 13" on my jeep.

    and im still trying to figure out how jeep "blew it". same coil over your toyota has, dana axles, real towhooks and skidplates. please explain how jeep blew it, as you say.
  • tbunder1tbunder1 Posts: 257
    and your pre-runner was targeted at who? posers? with no t/c, i think i would keep quiet, wouldn't you? i still can't believe you slam a dana axled 4x4 lib. hilarious.
  • sc0rpi0sc0rpi0 Posts: 897
    Yeah...bigger engine, more torque, no arguement there..Liberty needs it with all its weight.

    Ground clearance: Alright, the numbers I quoted are the LLL, which is 13" for you and 15" for Tacoma. You said it was because of bigger tires...there is not 2" of diff. between 30s and 31s. 2002 Liberty is sitting lower, and 2003s are sitting even lower.

    real towhooks: why don't you quit this stupid line. Your Liberty has towhooks as an OPTION. Same as me going to 4WheelParts and getting them.

    Jeep blew it because they had all this potential, and they ended up with a mallrunner. Heavy with luxuries, dinky tires, can't put a decent lift on it. Now DC came out with 17" Chrome wheels for it. It's not a "mini-Rubicon". Grocery hooks, lipstick holders....pretty plastic-enclosed lights on the roof.

    As for slamming a Dana-axles 4x4: (with IFS): it sounds good, but it's not all that great. Danas break. In fact, it was the Dana 44 that blew at Tellico, the only axle lost there. Toyota axles held, Dana gave up.
  • sc0rpi0sc0rpi0 Posts: 897
    There is actual use of pre-runners. Desert running, high-speed. I guess you didn't know that.
  • "jeep: 15.74 lb/ft per CC.
    toyota: 15.45 lb/ft per CC.
    it seems that you toyota guys have forgotten what is important in a 4x4- torque."

    >>Are you really going to tell us that your extra 15 lb/ft of torque is an advantage when your Liberty weighs a whopping 585 lbs more than our Tacomas?

    You're the first person I've known who's rated an engine using a torque/displacement ratio. The fact you're doing this, instead of using the universally standard torque/RPM ratio simply means you're grasping at straws. Remember your Ranger debate? How more torque at a LOWER RPM was the most important thing in the world? What happened to that argument?

    The most important thing in a 4x4 is power, lightweight, articulation and big tires. The winning formula isn't simply having a torque advantage.

    Come back and preach to us about your HP and torque advantage when your Liberty sheds 600lbs of Ken & Barbie foo-foo.

    -------------------------------------------------

    As a sidenote, let me tell you I think it's hilarious how you brag about one thing only to do a complete 180 degree "about-face" later. Need a few reminders?

    1. You bragged about your Ranger's locker, found out it didn't have one, then said they suck because that's what the Tacoma has.

    2. You bragged non-stop about how the Ranger had more torque at a lower RPM. Now you say that's a bogus comparison and use some lame torque/cc argument because the Tacoma's got you beat.

    3. You bragged nonstop about your precious Alcoa rims that were light-weight and reduced unsprung weight. Then you bragged about your bigger, heavier axles, A-arms and diffs, completely contradicting yourself with your asinine "reduced unsprung weight" garbage. Who would care about having lighter rims to reduce unsprung weight on a 4x4 with live axles and big tires, LMFAO!

    4. You griped non-stop about how Tacomas (supposedly) had a leaking problem but simply ignore your Liberty's TSB regarding interior leaks through a drain tube.

    5. You bragged nonstop about how tough your Ranger was and how you would literally jump it. Then when you sold it on E-bay, your advertisement stated "the truck was never abused."

    5. You're quick to call anybody around here stupid when they don't agree with you, while you're the only one here who forgot HIS OWN USERNAME AND PASSWORD and had to re-register.

    Need me to go on, or have you had enough yet?
  • eagle63eagle63 Posts: 599
    do you actually off-road your liberty? I think that's the real question.
  • tbunder1tbunder1 Posts: 257
    lmfao- pluto, you make a mockery of yourself daily here.

    you were the one who said the taco outweighed the liberty....quickly, you recant your quote calling it "a huge joke". alrighty........

    you were the one who claimed to have a 4" advantage over liberty rear diff......quickly learning you were misinformed- again........

    you were the one who said DOHC was better than SOHC designed engines, only to learn that the jeep engine makes more power and torque and is more efficient- you quickly quieted down......

    you were the one who claimed you had a lsd in your rear locked taco diff....only to learn you were wrong- again, quickly quieted down.......

    a long time ago when i mis-stated (see, i admit my mistakes) that the ranger had tacoma beat in curb weight by some 400 lbs., you and your toyota comrades quickly jumped on me saying i was wrong and that the ranger was pretty much even in weight to the lighter tacoma (obviously if being lighter was better- which is your theory now-, you would've agreed that ranger was heavier, and therefore not as good a 4x4).
    but now, you say that being lighter is the way to go. which is it? i know, whichever works in your favor, right?

    again, i just pointed out to you that the 3.7 makes more torque per CC compared to your wimpy 3.4- and then you totally change the subject to say that it doesn't mean anything.....well, it means that your theory on the DOHC design was DEFINITELY not plagiarized.....no one but you would think up such BS.

    only you quote a magazine article that is going on six years old where your precious tacoma tied a wrangler with an OPEN DIFFERENTIAL. now if that isn't pathetic, i don't know what is...

    daily your fellow toyota comrades sit in here and read your nonsense and obviously do not support you in any way.....half the time quietly trying to explain to you how things really are....

    my man, i won't call you s8u8i4, but you are the epitome of a trucker that knows nothing but what you think, and is totally blind to anything else or anyone's explanation of the truth.

    'Need me to go on, or have you had enough yet?'

    okay, ill go on....the reason im pointing out to you that the 3.7 makes more torque per CC is because of your claim that the DOHC design is better as a whole- iow, the engine. well, if that was true, where's the torque in the 3.4? after all, it is DOHC design, but the SOHC designed jeep 3.7 still has it beat in total lb/ft of torque per cubic centimeter. and it does all of that while being more fuel efficient. your theory just doesn't float my man.

    also, it's finally good to see you are accepting some of the ranger's advantages over tacoma.

    also, i never had alcoa rims; the FX4 levle II comes with them. i just said what someone else did, which their purpose is to reduce unsprung weight, plus they are FORGED which means they are a lot stronger than your TRD's cast.

    'The most important thing in a 4x4 is power, lightweight, articulation and big tires. The winning formula isn't simply having a torque advantage.'

    evidently you don't agree with your comrades like scorpio who brag up the toyota weakling 4-banger in tacoma. also, big tires aren't everything. it simply depends on where you're driving. for rock-crawling and mudding, taller tires will help. but for some trailing, smaller tires will actually be better. i can't believe you would make such a blanket statement like that one. im not surprised though, it's obvious that you think your 31's rule and they are the best simply cuz they look good. can you say inexperienced? also, torque is what pulls you up the hill or through the mud my main man. it will also pull out the torque low toyotas. peace bro.
  • **TBUNDY** I just don't see why anybody would want a Jeep Liberty. It's a cheap spin-off/imitation of the Kia Sportage with a few shiny accessories like 17" wheels. I guess they put those wheels on there because it attracts posers. Who would want a puny 3.7 liter V6 when the competition now has a huge 4.0 in comparison?? ESPECIALLY an inferior 90 degree V6 with a power-robbing counter rotating balance shaft. We all know a 90 degree V6 is just cost-cutting done by Jeep so they can make their small V6 on the same assembly line as their V8s. How stupid and cheap is that? Plus, Jeep's V6 is an ancient SOHC engine, not the much better DOHC design. Oh yeah, gotta love that Benz quality too. Like the drain tube leaking water into the interior. I mean, what is this, a brand new Jeep or an ancient rusted out VW Bug that leaks water? I got to hand it to Jeep, though. The Liberty is brand new and it already has 26 TSBs. That has to be a new record or something! Have you seen the rear pumpkin on that Liberty? It's, like, at least 4 inches smaller than a Tacoma's! The only reason why a Liberty has some ground clearance (which is pitifully low to begin with) is because there's no rear pumpkin in the way! And the rear door looks like it would dent if you looked at it funny. My Tacoma weighs 600lbs more than a Liberty because they used a TRUCK frame and real sheet metal! Take that Liberty on a trail, and it will twist up like a wound rubber band. So much for your Benz quality. Brand new Jeep and the fuel pump already went bad. What would have happened if you were stranded, LOL. See, buy a Tacoma and you'll never have to worry about it. We all know the Liberty isn't a REAL Jeep. That 73cjdude guy really busted your chops and told you like it is. New Jeeps suck, plain and simple. What you got is a Ken & Barbie Jeep with all the foo-foo. Drive over here and and I will challenge you - see if you can keep up with my trick TRD with its 31" tires and locker! Ha! You and your Liberty will eat my exhaust and go home ashamed! At least you will go back looking cool with your shiny 17" poser wheels, though LMAO!!! Looks like the all-knowing saddaddy and scorpio laid down the law on you, bud! Don't you ever learn? BTW, I like the grill on your jeep. It looks like a 1950s pipe heater! Let me know when you are ready to take on my super-trick TRD!

    END OF POST #42
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    >>If you try real hard and concentrate, you'll find this was a joke because I'm totally imitating your nonsensical garbage. You need to lay off the medication and learn to develop a sense of humor so you can recognize a joke when it slaps you in the face.
This discussion has been closed.