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Ford Ranger vs Toyota Tacoma
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Comments
also, i would expect your lift level to be higher since my jeep liberty is 13" from ground to frame.
anywho- what kind of tires are you getting? the goodyear MT/R tire that they put on rubicon's would look tough on your truck. or even some mud bfg's. pro comp's are neat as well.
I could have put 3" lift on it, but decided against it (now I'm thinking I should have gone that route and just drop the diff 1", so that CV axle angle is not bad as to wear out the boots in no time...on well, that will be the next stage, I suppose)
This is still with 31s.
As far as tires go, I'm going next with 32s (so I don't have to regear), probably BFG MT KMs.
Congrats on the lift. I think you'll really like the OME setup. I have several friends with this setup and I'm going with the OME suspension real soon. I thought I might comment that my 2000 extra cad TRD 4x4 measures 36" exactly to the center of the wheel well. I believe that OME881's & N91 combo should give 2.25 - 2.5 at first and should settle to 2.0". You may want to double check and make sure the spring shop didn't put the bottom spring cup/retainer upside down. This is a common mistake and by installing the cup side up it reduces the amount of lift achieved. Just a note !! Of course TTORA is the place for Info!
Have a good turkey day !! Jeff
I did the spring compression myself, and cup is sitting correct. I'm happy with the lift upfront, because before it was at 34.75-35 and now is 37. There are few factors going into this, mainly the tires. They got 20k (although they are BFG ATs), and I usually run 30psi in them, so they compress somewhat.
I'm a TTORA TX member
the reason i jacked my trucks up like this was to make the truck **LEVEL**. if you look at most trucks, take a look at your TRD 2-wheeler while you're walking out to get in it after class, it has a rake. i like my 4x4's to sit relatively level, it looks better. you can't do this (coils), nor should you since you won't be climbing over any boulders or huge ruts with no t/c. don't quietly slam domestics, when the new Level II FX4 looks as mean as it does and has the hardware to back it up.
check out this article:
http://www.trucktrend.com/roadtests/pickup/163_0210_fx4/
And you can level out coilover suspensions, its called a spacer, or you can buy adjustable coilovers.
By the way, I saw a 60 year old woman climb behind the wheel of a Liberty Renegade after a basketball game Monday nite. Boy did that thing look tough. There are tons of Liberties driven by students here as well, I have yet to see a male drive a single one of them. Even the 4Xs are driven by sorortiy girls. I wasn't gonna say any of this as things have been cool lately, but you had to go and slam my truck, but I am not mad, I guess you have gotten me used to it. As of yet, I have yet to see any females, 20 or 65, driving a prerunner.
And how many deep ruts or boulders have you climbed over with 30 inch tires. I bet I could take those obstacles as well as you could anyway. Then again some stuff is a big deal to senior citizen mobiles.
By the way, the truck in the article is pretty bada**, but I think I already read the article. Do you know of any place that talks about additions made for stepping up to "level 2"?
1. 209ft braking distance from 70mph
2. 10 seconds to get to 60mph
I wonder how those numbers compare to my Tacoma, hehe! The testers also complained the Liberty's seats were uncomfortable and the ride was "head-tossing on any surface.
I looked at a Liberty in a parking lot the other day. I was surprised to see how the gas tank was positioned so low and exposed. And the shock brackets on the rear axle extend below the axle further than any other vehicle I've seen (even the Ranger's, by far).
As far as ride goes...well, Freelander has both IFS and IRS, so that might make some difference.
However, I'll give Liberty credit because it's most expensive model is $23k vs. $31k for Freelander. You can do a LOT with a vehicle for 8 grand extra.
as for the 60-year old woman in the renegade- good for her. she chose a nice vehicle. just because it doesn't have a bed doesn't mean it won't work for ya or won't off-road. i happen to like the liberty, it is a very well put together vehicle. as for her's, it was probably 2wd, and i don't particularly care for the renegades. i like the more plain sport versions (like we have) with few amenities other than cd, the usual power features, and 4x4.
btw, those people that you "DON'T" see driving two-wheel-drive pre-runners are probably driving four-wheel-drive liberty's. hehe
pluto- as for the article you are talking about, it's online at www.caranddriver.com. click on the comparison link, and then go to suv/trucks and choose "canyon cubs". i can't poste the url because of edmunds crappy settings.
seems you fail to mention how they praise the liberty's stout build quality and four-wheel-drive features. as for losing to the land-rover in the areas mentioned- ill gladly accept that. every category they diss the jeep in favor for the land-rover are gripes that the everyday commuter would complain about (uncomfortable seats, bouncy ride, etc). ill take my low ratio transfer case, solid rear axle, more powerful and torquey engine, and just an overall heavier duty vehicle any day over that escape like land-rover (i know, you'd buy the land-rover, figures).
and also, fyi- this shock mount thing you got going on is absurd. they mount the shocks where they do to provide the suspension with long travel shocks while trying to provide a smooth ride. this is a short wheelbase vehicle so it is going to ride a little rough. also, it is a truck based suv, not a car like the land rover and escape so it rides like a truck. i've yet to hear of anyone complaing of the mounts for rear shocks on any ranger or liberty. and gas tank; where do you want it? after measuring mine from floor to bottom of tank, it's 14.5 inches. how high you want it? at least the sheetmetal on the liberty doesn't sport exterior spot-weld marks all over like all tacomas.
what about what c/d said of the liberty chassis that had no detectable flexing? how about how they say that the liberty was built for rock crawling? quite opposite to what you've said about it in the past, or even what 'sad' likes to categorize it as. ill quote him "senior citizen mobile". lmao
thx for the heads up on the article though, that was one i hadn't read.
olt, did you check the latest consumers digest or reports? whatever one you read. they gave the liberty recommendations. i know in your mind that matters somehow. i could care less.
Thanks for your participation and cooperation!
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If you have never ridden in one of these trucks, don't dog its OR capabilities, cuz it has em. This is the only reason I say that you "slam" my truck, which doesn't bother me by the way -- b/c you make false statements about it. Then again I guess ignorance is bliss for people such as yourself.
And at one time didn't you say that you liked highspeed offroading more than crawling over stuff, cuz I definitely remember this statement. Why is mud and rocks all of a sudden the most important off road feat? Oh I know, cuz it helps you to manipulate your story so that your senior citizen mobile sounds tougher than the wig scratching, denture brushing, grocery getting dog that it is. How many miles did you put on it while going shopping today? I bet you played havock on those nasty curbs that get in the way, just like real off roading huh.
Whew, Im spent. No more talking about Liberties for me after that, so mods don't worry. Its the straight and narrow from now on. On topic stuff only. Tbunder, I know how worthless that was and rest assured that I feel quite ignorant after writing it, so just lay off. Hehe, get a Ranger so we can argue this for real. Liberties aren't worth fighting for - now go fill it up with gifts and tie a tree to the top or something. Happy holidays, and all of this is tongue in cheek all the way. I know your interests man and you know mine - its just that we both know how to yank each others chains at the same time!
big news- im getting a lift for my jeep. rockyroad.com, or rocky road outfitters offer a 2.5 inch lift, and then i plan on going after some 245/75 yokohama geolander at's or wild country radial TXR tires for it. the kit is less than $200 and fits like a glove.
visit this link to view a liberty with this lift. granted this lib has 265/75 tires, but they rub im assuming. i will only go with 245's, or a 30.8 inch tall tire. this will look perfect with the height gained by the lift. i understand this lift isn't a true suspension lift, but it's all that's available for the KJ right now. with longer shocks, it will ensure longer travel for the suspension. bilstein has some on the way so i've heard.
sad-, you're a nice guy and i will admit i love the tacoma truck, just not as much as the ranger, but always remember- im the one with dana axles and the very low crawling t/c. although i will also admit i think the tacoma is cheap in nature. the sheetmetal seems very thin compared to rangers. as far as getting a ranger, i won't buy one until they change them. after i get the lib the way i want it, i very honestly see a new '03 or '04 Camry SE in my future. i need a new car, and with a 5-spd manual and the balsy little 4-banger it should be fun while barely breaking $20,000 cash. that's my future.
It's just too easy to dismiss your opinions and "facts" when they're never fact-based.
BTW, it's good to know you're considering a four cylinder Camry - a car that gets to 60mph much quicker than your 10 second Jeep. It's not safe driving a car that can't get out of its own way (or stop for that matter)!
And I would bet money that you are a pretty nice guy too. Do they make camry's with a manual now? I like max's and altimas a little better.
Lots of hype, but essentially all they have are spacer lifts. In TTORA, there are few guys who make and sell them for $130 for 3" setup.
There seems to be a lot of hype on the site, but there's one catch: those spacers aren't that good for your coils and ride. They stiffen the ride, sag the coil, and with stock strut assembly, you lose downtravel. Also, make sure your CV boots upfront are fine and fins aren't rubbing, otherwise you'll tear through them in a heartbeat. Also, with that lift, you can kiss warranty goodbye on front CVs and driveshaft.
Spacers are a cheap way to lift the truck. I wonder if ARB sells any coil setups for Liberty, like they do for Tacomas (Old Man Emu coils, superb lift, all new coils and struts. I bought the front setup for $320 with shipping and just sold my stock setup for $170 on ebay...got 2" of lift real cheap, for the quality it provides).
As far as diesel goes: we'll see how many grandmas and sorority chix buy them
Wrangler with a diesel would be killer. Liberty with diesel is a waste of diesel.
and fwiw, i have seen a few camry's today and realized i don't want one. i think i need a truck....period. ill wait on the new ranger or tacoma.
pluto- if you read the c/d article, you'll see that the jeep they test is a limited, which is a lot heavier than sport models. also, they mention that their test vehicle was new and the engine was tight as i can vouch. my jeep is not near as as quick as the loner i had (15000 miles) when i had my fuel pump replaced. mine now has 3500 miles and is still as tight as it was then. trust me, it will run hard. it feels like a V8 when you punch it. but of course you wouldn't be used to all that power and torque with your wimpy 190 horses and 220 lf/ft. besides, i really didn't buy my jeep to drag race to 60 mph. we actually use our t/c up here in iowa.
http://www.rocky-road.com/kjsus.html
Why should company have to cover CV boots leaking every month because owner had a 3" lift put on? Toyota dealer charges $250 to reboot one side (I know because day before I was supposed to have lift installed I tore a CV boot, but it was fixed under warranty), it's a decent amount of work no matter which vehicle you do it at, and covering this under warranty would be bad business.
People installing lifts should be aware of consequences.
This is hilarious....."if feels like a V8", and all you have is 210/235 engine. I never knew 20hp/15lb-ft made THAT much difference Oh yes, especially with a vehicle that's what.....600 lbs heavier?
People with V8s must be missing out on the great V6 from Jeep. Haha.
I think we all know a serious off-roader would prefer losing 600lbs than gaining 15 lb/ft of torque. Even the ones in Iowa who use their t/c.
Already installed black side bars, and had the windows tinted. Truck looks mean in all black. Will soon be adding a security system and locking tonnau cover to make up for the lack of extended cab.
Overall very pleased, and proud owner of my 2003 Ranger. Pros: Comfy seat, commanding ride height, powerful motor, off-road ability, sharp looks(Edge Plus is the way to go), smooth highway ride, lack of wind noise (vs. a 2001 Honda Accord!!), 6 disc CD, and also that new truck smell.
Cons: Gas milage not impressive(75MPH = 3000 RPM) , first gear made for towing, not stoplights, high beams disable foglights, Fuel guage a little conservative(my 16.5Gal tank shows "empty" and the warning light comes on with 3+ gal. still in the tank) can't think of anything more.
as far as the libby lift- doing the rocky road OTT lift. and probably some 245/75 BFG muds with blackwalls out. this lift has been proven to be built very heavy duty, and has none of the issues scorpio has tried to scare me off with. it doesn't use internal spacers up front, it has external (as in the spacers aren't a plastic poly piece inserted inside the coil to lengthen it)steel bolt on ones that go over the top of the strut/shock assembly. and with longer shocks in the rear, it provides more articulation and travel. it truly is a bolt on and go lift as i've been told by many who have it. all that is needed is an alignment. after i get it, i will post some pics somehow.
Spacers that TTORA guys make are heavy duty too (not plastic poly piece inserted inside the coil to -->COMPRESS<-- it, but a steel one), but what I posted was the list of issues that goes with having coil compressed by a spacer. Now, if you are putting an external spacer on, you'll not damage the coil, but beware of the warranty because your CVs and rear driveshaft will probably no longer be covered, unless you have it installed by the dealer.
Luckily my parents cleaned out my old closet at their house and I found the VIN number to the my Alpine CDA-7941 CD Player on the original box. I'll be calling the detective back and hopefully will be able to find my CD player and those who stole it from me. Anyway, just passing this on to help anybody else who may meet the same unfortunate event...
Still enjoying the new Ranger though. Will be upgrading the speakers maybe next spring, but after the security system and tonnau cover is installed. Anybody have any experience with a good security system? I'm looking at the one shown in Crutchfield.
anxiously awaiting the new ranger and tacoma. later
Anybody with a 6 disc-in dash changer, and 4 speakers wire in a subwoofer? I have a 250W 10" subwoofer from my old ride, and a MTX 250W Amp. I doubt the ford player will have RCA outs, but maybe I could use the rear speaker cable to drive the high level inputs on my amp? Maybe I should just buy a crossover control... Anyways it looks like I have 4 6x8" speakers to work with, until I replace 'em...
Also what are wheel locks?
Wheel locks are just the special lug nuts that require a key to unbolt. Just another step to keep my Ranger intact.
edit: Windows already tinted to the darkest legal limit...
All this audio talk has got me wanting to spend some money. Im thinkin of Pioneer's DEH-P7400 CD/MP3 player and 4 Infinity References Speakers. Or maybe a Panasonic home theater system for around $300. I could hook up my laptop to it and listen to allll my mp3s. I doubt it will happen, maybe this summer.
Has anyone heard to the contrary??
The way Ranger has been losing ground in sales (down to 12K from 16K from last year), it's not going to be long before Tacoma overtakes it. And you can bet new Taco with 4.0L engine is not going to help Ranger sales.
I think tbunder proclaimed few months ago that Tacoma would never take S10.
And the Tundras in '04 look like they may be sizing up to a fuller-sized truck. Seems to me that Toyota would do well to beef up their horsepower on the V-8s and offer a sport-stick shift on the Tundras. Better keep an eye on the Hemi in that Dakota RT as a measuring stick. I was around to see the muscle cars explode out of the introduction of the Mustang. The pickups are in their heyday now and look like they will be into the muscle in the next two years et al Ford Lighting; Dakota Hemi; Chev SSR.
What information have you seen on the 04 tundra?
IMO, toyota never should have marketed the tundra against the true 1/2 tons trucks. The 4.7L absolutely blows away comparably sized v8s from the competitors and for that reason folks should see it as a large mid-sized truck. Thats the way I see it.
Quote from tbunder: "scorp- it's still third hat in sales. it will never be #1. or #2. take that to the bank."
Looks like it's about to be #2 for this year. Ouch. That's got to hurt. Which bank would it be? Run by Simpson graduates?
It's interesting that 183hp is nowdays called "anemic". I guess there was a time when 150hp engines were the top of the line, but still.....3.4L is now 8 years old. And new 4.0L just might hang around for a while.
Here's my reason for why Tacoma WILL get a new engine: torque. This is the same reason 4Runner is sold with 2 engine: if you want higher hp and lower torque, you buy a V6. If you want higher torque, you buy a V8.
With Tacoma being offered with 4.0L (although I am having trouble imagining which engine would be offered as an alternative...3.4?) it's not going to cannibalize the Tundra market, b/c engine is not going to be strong enough to tow as much as Tundra.
PHP forums software is free and it works like a charm. Someone needs to re-evaluate their programmic staff salary.
Well maybe tomorrow I'll get back to it. But in summary, the 03 Ranger is doing great. Seems my Edge model has a 92 MPH govenor on it. Time to look into a chip....