I don't think anybody has wanted this car more than I. I've been waiting to buy a new car for over a year. I drove the old Forester and waited for the new model. Drove that and loved it except it's lacking cojones. I trusted the rumors and waited another winter for the turbo. I drive a Saab turbo now and love driving turbos but really want the AWD and more cargo space.
It's exactly what I want except:
1. The black interior! Gah! It's not always snow and ice around here. It will roast in summer.
2. No manual with the permium package ?!?! What ARE they thinking?
3. The engine is SO obviously de-tuned. I was hoping to at least match the 220hp of the L.L. Bean. My Saab has a 2.5 turbo and it cranks 240hp. I don't see 210 as exactly anemic but it could be much better.
Are these deal breakers? I doubt it. But it must come in some color other than black. I hate driving an oven. I will make a point to test drive it on a sweltering day.
Agree with you on the interior color. Solution: get a brighter-colored after-market leather (and sunroof, if you want). That way, you make your own premium package to your choice and liking.
I think the hp is listed as such to avoid drawing attention away from the H6 and the non-STi WRX. The torque is more important: the 0-60 in 6.1s says it all. I had hoped for 6.9, so I am just blown away.
I've read comments that this engine is even de-tuned for the STi. :-) Not surprising since the Japanese have 2.0's putting out ~300 h.p. Yeah, it's definitely torquey though.
I am planning to purchase a new auto this summer, so I am definitely in the market for this awesome little Subie...and am very excited about it! Just one thing...has anyone heard about potential price for the XT and XS-T (i.e., premium) models? I was curious as to how much of a premium they're going to be charging for the turbo...
From the brochure it looks like all turbos are based on the XS in terms of packaging, with optional premium package (moonroof, and leather) available for the automatic. There are a few other things extra that add to the price (rear spoiler, 7speaker system, modified gauges). I don’t know if there is a consensus in the board about the pricing, but my guess is a street price of $1,500 more than the equivalent XS for the turbo, $500 for the higher value of the redesigned engine (new block, new pistons, new cam, and AVCS), and $500 for the above extras and styling enhancements.
For example, the lowest priced one would be the manual w/o premium package. The typical street price of the manual XS with $200 of options (air filter, cargo net, armrest extension, wheel locks) is $22,000 (see Edmunds’ TMV). So, you should end up with $24,500 (MSRP: $26,200) including destination charge.
Perhaps I am a little optimistic, but I think those could be realistic street prices a few weeks after release (when the initial euphoria has slowed down). Add ~$800 for an automatic transmission and $1,600 or so for the premium package with leather.
My loan/lease is up on my '99 Forester later this year, and I've been thinking about getting a small-to-mid size SUV with a little more muscle than my Forester. I believe I've just found it! I'm going to be in downtown Chicago tomorrow for a business meeting, and I might just have to sneak into the Auto Show to peek at this baby.
Do you mean the photos from www.chicagoautoshow.com ?
Yep. I'm also not crazy about a black leather interior. However, the dealer in Chicago where I bought my '99 Forester typically has a local shop do the leather seats - so I know I could at least get different color seats.
No, I think Brian from our Subaru Crew went and took some more photos, including some close ups.
From those, we were able to conclude that the redline is 6500 (higher than the SOHC 2.5l), the sway bars are the same, the exhaust looks different, etc.
Check under Owners Clubs, then Subaru Crew. Those are very active, fun topics. In fact we host a chat every week - tonight at 9pm EST.
OK. Checked out the new Forester XT at the Chicago Auto Show yesterday, and I'll admit I'm impressed! Very nice looking Subie. The model in black actually had green-flecked metallic paint, but I really like the mono-silver. When I heard about the all black leather interior, I was a bit apprehensive, but after sitting in it, I actually like the black. The roof rails come in a natural aluminum finish, and it looks like it will have fittings for eight speakers, plus a sub-woofer under the seat. The engine was fascinating to check out. The rep I spoke to said that they should be arriving in showrooms in April 2003, and will probably start around $27K. Unless it doesn't drive as well as I anticipate, I'll be picking one up later this year. -Bob
Glad to hear you liked the new interior color scheme. I do like the two-tone gray/black on that interior, doesn't look as "Goth" as an all-black interior.
OK, all you speed demons that want the Turbo, I can understand that. But why in the world won't Subaru let you have leather without an automatic transmission???? That, plus the price (Subarus used to be cheap!), put me off the car. And, I will never forget the day I tore the oil filter and its threads off the bottom of my 99 Forester, requiring a bottom-half engine rebuild, at 9,000 miles. Ground clearance? Ha!
Then VW made the conscious decision to go upmarket. All the additional leather, soundproofing materials and chrome around the gearshift haven't been accompanied by an improvement in build quality, long-term reliability and maintenance costs, IMO.
Speaking as someone who's owned both a Jetta and a Forester, I know which one I'd buy again.
The Forester turbo will certainly be on my list of vehicles to check out, along with the WRX wagon of course. Curious if anybody else will be cross-shopping these two Soobie products...
Lots of people will. I believe that at least 4 current Forester owners have been eye-balling the WRX wagon, and hoping for a turbo Forester: Frank, Ken, Ed, and myself.
In the end, I think the Forester will appeal to the more practical/family buyers, while the WRX will sell to younger singles.
My GF's jaw dropped when I mentioned a Forester, tehe. Just have to test drive and also see how the Forester turbo is going to be priced. A few thousand dollars might be able to make me look the other way.
Of course over the life of the vehicle, I bet the Forester would have lower insurance rates, and a lot less stoplight challenges, although the WRX wagon is a bit better than the sedan in both respects.
Right now even Premium automatics with leather are only around $24k street price, that seems very cheap for the equipment level. My guess is the turbo will settle into the $24-26k street price range after initial demand subsides.
You'll get a lot of that back, I imagine resale on the bigger Forester will be better as a % of what you pay at first. Why? Because the SUV class has better resale, and WRXs get abused more and a future buyer knows that.
Plus you get twice the useful cargo space and a lot more torque at a more accessible rpm.
No moonroof with the 5 speed eh? Bah! Drove around ina 5 speed Forester over the weekend, loved the low-end torque. Hopefully the 2.5L turbo will keep the same power down low, and then have even more up top. Certainly on the list of vehicles now. Want and manual and sun roof!
Based on stuff missing from 2000 Outback (I think some things have been added subsequently) - comfortable seats, better odometer, map pockets in back of front seats, smoother stick shift, remote that opens and closes doors better, seat belts that retract, wheel wells / tires that take chains. For turbo cars, run on regular fuel, sunroof & stick combo. Most of this should be simple SOA, since you do so many things right.
I'm still a little disppointed that Subaru may not keep the weight down. It sounds like the Turbo Forester will have pretty much the same power to weight ratio as the PT Cruiser Turbo.
Oh I wouldn't buy a PT Cruiser under any circumstances. I'm just trying to get a feel for the performance of the Turbo Forester and the Cruiser looks like it's torque, weight, and horsepower ratings are almost identical to the Forester (215 horse and 245 pounds in a 3200 pound vehicle). I'm surprised that the Forester would offer that much more performance.
Has something to do with the acceleration potential. If the WRX were FWD, it would probably get to 60 mph in 6.5 seconds versus the 5.7 or so you see listed in automags.
Just got of the phone with Subaru Customer Service Department. I was told that in late April Subaru dealership will start taking orders for the 2.5 Forester XT for June/July delivery. This would right on time for me as we need a second vehicle.
I am considering the purchase of my first Subaru. I would appreciate opinions on which vehicle you would want on a cross country trip with som offroading to scenic sites. The choices would be: Impezza WRX wagon, outback wagon, forester xs or xt.
I love my '03 Forester XS, it has 1400 miles on it now. Last tank of gas I got 31 mpg. It has plenty of power, the 165 hp gets it done well without getting into trouble.
I am in Fresno, and subies are not nearly as popular here as So Cal or Bay area. I do some "off roading" in agricultural areas, the XS is light and powerful. I could wish for a lower first gear for really bumpy terrain.
John: Is your forester a 5speed or automatic. Do you know the published 0-60 time of the 165 hp forester 5 speed? How is the Forester for comfort on a long trip? How tall are you?
my '03 is the 5 speed, it is very comfortable for a 6'3" guy like me. Love the lumbar lever, that is a necessity for a tall guy with a bad back. Leg room is outstanding, beats our old Trooper and the new Mazda MPV. It is hard to find 42" leg room anymore. I was looking (very briefly) at the Honda Element and CRV, both of those are shy on leg room and didn't offer the value of the Forester XS.
The regular 2.5l has produced 0-60 times anywhere from 8.8 to 9.5 seconds with a manual, and 9.1 to 10.5 seconds with an automatic.
On the road, torque is good with my 5 speed. I've towed about 1500 pounds and had no trouble climing a steep hill near my house. It even managed to accelerate while pulling that load.
Note that even though it's a 4 banger, it'll outrun a lot of competing V6 models, like the Santa Fe, the Grand Vitara, and the XTerra. It is a 2.5l, which is about the size of many small V6s.
Now, you want more than adequate power to blow the competition away? Get in line for the XT model. 0-100kph has been estimated at 6.1 seconds, that puts it in the high 5 second range for 0-60mph.
That makes the regular 2.5l seem slow, but only comparatively.
It's fine on trips, I have plenty of room for my 6" 215lb body. We have 2 little kids so the back seat works fine for us.
I saw in another STi thread that some WRX STi's have arrived in Canada. Since our friends in the great north seem to be blessed with those vehicles before the U.S., does that mean that Subaru Canada will be getting the XT Turbos soon?
If so, I want pictures and commentaries, and I want them NOW!!!
Good find, hadn't seen the colors on that site before. Unfortunately, for the XT interior it's the same story they announced in February on the Subaru media site (see .pdf file under Forester in http://www.media.subaru.com/ ). That is, off-black, only, which will be too dark for most people farther South.
BTW, I asked SoA when they will have more specs, they answered in June, when the Forester will be available in the showrooms!
Dreadful choice of colors and no choice of the tan interior. I think the gray interior looks cheap and don't like driving in a tomb or the resultant heat build-up in summer. Black, silver, gold, white, and red are all unattractive to my mind. Give me the blue or green. I've WAITED for this car since the middle of last year when it was just a rumor and the poor choice (meaning NO choice) of interior decor in a car this expensive is insulting particularly when lighter interiors are essential in warm weather areas.
I am now seriously looking at alternatives. I have to get a new car soon.
Comments
http://www.autoweek.com/specials/2003_chicago/subaru/info.pdf
I'm very impressed, though there are some things that could have been even better:
* no VTD
* no Shiftronic for the auto
* no 5 speed with the Premium package
The first two would increase the price, so hopefully by not including those they can keep prices within $2 grand of the regular 2.5l models.
But lots and lots of pluses:
* major down-low torque
* less lag
* AVCS
* black/gray interior looks nice
* rims look better than those on the XS
* extra guages standard
This thing is gonna rule the small SUV segment, in terms of performance.
-juice
It's exactly what I want except:
1. The black interior! Gah! It's not always snow and ice around here. It will roast in summer.
2. No manual with the permium package ?!?! What ARE they thinking?
3. The engine is SO obviously de-tuned. I was hoping to at least match the 220hp of the L.L. Bean. My Saab has a 2.5 turbo and it cranks 240hp. I don't see 210 as exactly anemic but it could be much better.
Are these deal breakers? I doubt it. But it must come in some color other than black. I hate driving an oven. I will make a point to test drive it on a sweltering day.
I think the hp is listed as such to avoid drawing attention away from the H6 and the non-STi WRX. The torque is more important: the 0-60 in 6.1s says it all. I had hoped for 6.9, so I am just blown away.
- D
Not surprising since the Japanese have 2.0's putting out ~300 h.p. Yeah, it's definitely torquey though.
-Dennis
From the brochure it looks like all turbos are based on the XS in terms of packaging, with optional premium package (moonroof, and leather) available for the automatic. There are a few other things extra that add to the price (rear spoiler, 7speaker system, modified gauges). I don’t know if there is a consensus in the board about the pricing, but my guess is a street price of $1,500 more than the equivalent XS for the turbo, $500 for the higher value of the redesigned engine (new block, new pistons, new cam, and AVCS), and $500 for the above extras and styling enhancements.
For example, the lowest priced one would be the manual w/o premium package. The typical street price of the manual XS with $200 of options (air filter, cargo net, armrest extension, wheel locks) is $22,000 (see Edmunds’ TMV). So, you should end up with $24,500 (MSRP: $26,200) including destination charge.
Perhaps I am a little optimistic, but I think those could be realistic street prices a few weeks after release (when the initial euphoria has slowed down). Add ~$800 for an automatic transmission and $1,600 or so for the premium package with leather.
- D
And 210hp means affordable insurance, 235 lb-ft mean serious performance. Subaru is estimating 6.1 seconds to 60, that's not quick enough for ya? :-)
-juice
-Bob Cronin
-juice
Yep. I'm also not crazy about a black leather interior. However, the dealer in Chicago where I bought my '99 Forester typically has a local shop do the leather seats - so I know I could at least get different color seats.
From those, we were able to conclude that the redline is 6500 (higher than the SOHC 2.5l), the sway bars are the same, the exhaust looks different, etc.
Check under Owners Clubs, then Subaru Crew. Those are very active, fun topics. In fact we host a chat every week - tonight at 9pm EST.
-juice
-Bob
-Bob
-juice
Whatever rock or obstacle you hit would've ruined the front end of that Jetta too, maybe worse.
-juice
Speaking as someone who's owned both a Jetta and a Forester, I know which one I'd buy again.
Ed
-B
In the end, I think the Forester will appeal to the more practical/family buyers, while the WRX will sell to younger singles.
-juice
Of course over the life of the vehicle, I bet the Forester would have lower insurance rates, and a lot less stoplight challenges, although the WRX wagon is a bit better than the sedan in both respects.
Hmmmm...
-B
-juice
Plus you get twice the useful cargo space and a lot more torque at a more accessible rpm.
-juice
Doug
No moonroof with the 5 speed at first.
Tires are the same as the XS, so clearance is tight. You might have to go with Z-chains, meant for low-profile applications.
-juice
-B
-juice
comfortable seats, better odometer, map pockets in back of front seats, smoother stick shift, remote that opens and closes doors better, seat belts that retract, wheel wells / tires that take chains. For turbo cars, run on regular fuel, sunroof & stick combo. Most of this should be simple SOA, since you do so many things right.
And last I heard the PT Cruiser did not have AWD (and, I believe, has no independent rear suspension).
I don't think too many people will cross-shop these, but perhaps I am wrong.
- D
Hmm, I haven't considered the PT Turbo as a potential competitor. Guess so, at least outside the snow belt.
The PT is too trendy for me, more of a boutique car, I dunno.
-juice
-B
-juice
Bob
Ken
Bob
This would right on time for me as we need a second vehicle.
Damax07
The choices would be:
Impezza WRX wagon,
outback wagon,
forester xs or xt.
Thanks for any input.
Does any group do caravan trips?
I am in Fresno, and subies are not nearly as popular here as So Cal or Bay area. I do some "off roading" in agricultural areas, the XS is light and powerful. I could wish for a lower first gear for really bumpy terrain.
John
Is your forester a 5speed or automatic.
Do you know the published 0-60 time of the 165 hp forester 5 speed?
How is the Forester for comfort on a long trip?
How tall are you?
John
On the road, torque is good with my 5 speed. I've towed about 1500 pounds and had no trouble climing a steep hill near my house. It even managed to accelerate while pulling that load.
Note that even though it's a 4 banger, it'll outrun a lot of competing V6 models, like the Santa Fe, the Grand Vitara, and the XTerra. It is a 2.5l, which is about the size of many small V6s.
Now, you want more than adequate power to blow the competition away? Get in line for the XT model. 0-100kph has been estimated at 6.1 seconds, that puts it in the high 5 second range for 0-60mph.
That makes the regular 2.5l seem slow, but only comparatively.
It's fine on trips, I have plenty of room for my 6" 215lb body. We have 2 little kids so the back seat works fine for us.
-juice
- D.
If so, I want pictures and commentaries, and I want them NOW!!!
Heh, heh...
-Bob
http://www.subaruforester.ca/english/index.htm
-Bob
BTW, I asked SoA when they will have more specs, they answered in June, when the Forester will be available in the showrooms!
- D.
I am now seriously looking at alternatives. I have to get a new car soon.