By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
too often it is true though, that's the part YOU DON'T GET.
and for the consumer, perception is belief. If it looks like its built better sometimes its because it is.
Just like Camcord and Civic/Corolla did in the nineties against under-engineered and dated domestic vehicles.
Or find new segments like the Maxx and hope it flies.
Public perception will lag reality by about 5 years. Hyundai is only now getting taken seriously. The next entry-level Kia will have variable valve timing, yet it won't get any respect for years, is my guess.
Perception hurts resale values. I just saw a Malibu ad for $1000 cash back on the brand new model, seems a little soon to me. Chevy might shoot themselves in the foot with their pricing strategy. Bad resale will only make people turn to imports.
-juice
-juice
Chevy's still has the old Blazer, Tracker, and Malibu still being sold as '04's! Why bother?
The Equinox: great looking, mediocre engine, 2 years late. SSR and HRR: PT Cruiser knock offs, 4 years too late for a retro look fad that's already fading by the gloomy sales of T'birds and PT's.
Once Olds is killed off this year, Saturn will be moved into the fold for '05: Selling a few other GM cars with a few panel changes.
The front seat folds flat, and you can get a built-in factory DVD. The Maxx will be unique because Accord and Camry no longer come in wagons.
mediocre engine
On paper, maybe, with iron block and pushrods.
But...go drive one. It's quick and very efficient.
-juice
When can we expect to see these at SOME local dealer somewhere?
And who will be the first to:
*see one
*drive one
*buy one
*trade it off for something else?
I will be replacing my Saturn soon and the Maxx sounds interesting, but I don't think I should have to spend a few thousand dollars extra just to get the the same warranty Hyundia offers free.
I want to buy American, but I don't have to.
rctennis3811 : GM ranks in the top 5 in most quality surveys these days. Far cry from even just a few years ago. Most GM brands also rate higher than Toyota and Honda in satisfaction.
ateixeira : $1000 isn't much by today's standards and it seems like everyone needs a little something to move cars these days. I see even Toyota is offering low interest loans on 04s already in the paper today.
Basically, all I'm saying is that if GM thinks the car is so good, what's wrong with backing it up with a little better warranty?
Some bean counter in GM has probably figured out that extra warranty protection cost X amount of dollars in profit.
When people go with a car like Hyundia and get good service out of it, they will likely buy another and another. On the other hand when someone buys a GM auto that turns out to be high maintenance, they may never buy another.
In fact I have a hard time getting my wife to even look at a car on the Chevy lot because we had a bad experience with a 78 Malibu and a 83 Caviler. I don't think she knew Saturn was made by the same company. Back then it was almost kept a secret. I think they should keep it that way.
http://www.jdpower.com/cc/auto/releases/summary.asp?StudyID=763&a- mp;CatID=1
Regardless, Hyundia still ranks on the bottom of long term reliability and until that changes I wouldn't even look at one.
I don't think Hyunida is by any means a perfect car, but their learning curve has been sharper than most other manufactures and they are sure taking sales away form the big three. At first it was entry level, but now they have moved up to mid stream.
Camrys have $800 incentives at the end of the model year.
Buy American. OK. But what's American? Chrysler is now owned by Germans. GM is bringing platforms designed in Europe, Ford too.
The Subaru Outback is built in Indiana and GM is the biggest shareholder in their parent company. The PT Cruiser is made in Mexico and profits are sent to the parent company in Germany. Which is more American?
Globalization has made it a basically moot point.
FWIW, Hyundai's warranty in the US is 5/60 B2B and then 10/100 powertrain. If you sell it, only the 5/60 portion transfers, but it's still bumper to bumper.
So even a 1 year old, used Hyundai has a better warranty than a new Chevy.
I think Chevy could at least match Toyota, Nissan, and Subaru with a 5/60 powertrain, 3/36 B2B. They can't leap frog Cadillac's warranty, no way.
-juice
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
As for the American thing, I try and buy from GM, Chrysler and Ford because they employ the most people in Canada and do the most R&D here also. I also own stock in at least 2 of them in my pension and mutual funds. That said I wouldn't buy if I thought they were inferior but I personally have great experiences with GM so I will likely stick with them.
How many of those who say warranties aren't a big issue then turn around and buy the extended warranty?
In the fall of 2000 I was looking to buy a smaller Crew Cab truck. I narrowed it down to three, Ford sports track, Chevy S-10, and Nissan Frontier. Both Ford and Chevy were more expensive and Nissan had a 5/60 drivetrain warranty. I now have 30K trouble free miles on my Frontier and still have the security of two years remaining on the drivetrain warranty. If I had gone with Ford or Chevy I would be out in the cold.
Warranties are going to be at least a part the picture when I look to replace the Saturn.
The Subaru Outback is built in Indiana and GM is the biggest shareholder in their parent company. The PT Cruiser is made in Mexico and profits are sent to the parent company in Germany. Which is more American?
Globalization has made it a basically moot point.
FWIW, Hyundai's warranty in the US is 5/60 B2B and then 10/100 powertrain. If you sell it, only the 5/60 portion transfers, but it's still bumper to bumper.
So even a 1 year old, used Hyundai has a better warranty than a new Chevy.
I think Chevy could at least match Toyota, Nissan, and Subaru with a 5/60 powertrain, 3/36 B2B. They can't leap frog Cadillac's warranty, no way.
-juice"
MODERATOR: I promise I am talking about the Malibu
1.)
Don't give up so easily. Crysler merged with Diamler. Then German managment used the 'wolf-pack' stragetgy like they did with WWII u-boats to destroy crysler managment (I watch too much History channel). They forget about American law, and many former managers are fighting to get their company back.
2.)
Just b/c GM and Ford are bringing platformes desgned in Europe, this does not mean the product is european. Those platforms are desrgned by ford and GM subsidiaries like Opel and Volvo, respectively. Your still buying United States Product, thank G-D.
3.)
The Chevy Malibu has one thing that the accord and camry don't, and that its made by our brothers and sisters in America. It sounds childish butthe top 3% of tax payers pay 70% of US taxes. GM and Ford are in those top 3%, and those taxes go to schools, roads, parks, and the water we bathe with. An Accord or Camry don't have that, they pay mostly operating taxes here. Lutz talks about this issue in general in an Edmuns interview with him.
I don't mean buy American just because its American, but should that not be a factor in our descision? Someone said how he doesn't care about GM's cost structure, only about what he gets for his product. Well, alright, but remember JFK? "ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country."
Many "American" cars are assembled overseas.
I think as a tie-breaker, sure. But they have to compete with product, not with buyer pity.
Any how, my country is Brazil, guess I'll have to buy a Golf (made in Brazil) or a Mini Cooper (engines made in a Chrysler plant in Brazil). ;-)
-juice
But if fuel economy matters more, or if you just don't care about engines as long as they work good, then is it not fair for patriotism to play some role in your descsion making??? Think of the ppl your supporting, too.
But in your case, 100% I understand why you see it that way. You live in Brazil, so you don't care were the car comes from. Thats why the chevy's you have are not all made in America (are any?) I don't see a Malibu either. Strange, with its awsome fuel economy, why not sell it there?
You said you wana buy a VW, check this out, do any of these cars interest you??? P.S. look at the Omega. Nice, IMO.
Does anyone think a Bu coupe would look nice? I think the clean design would lend itself well to a coup body.
Patriotism is being proud of a good home-grown product, and supporting it and/or buying it.
Chevrolet do Brasil is basically making last-generation european chevy cars. I'm not particularly fond of them, most are about 10 years behind in technology.
We're a globalized family. I'm from Brazil, my wife an immigrant from the Middle East, and our kids are American.
I guess my approach to cars is similar, give me the best of all worlds. If it takes a Japanese engine, Italian styling, German engineering, American marketing, and a Korean warranty, so be it.
I drove and liked the 'bu. The V6 is torquey, and fuel efficiency is exemplary. I think someone looking for that would be happy, and would not have to call it pity.
-juice
wow, just checked it out, but it looked a little too familiar. FYI, the Brazilian Omega is actually a Holden Calais, Commodore, Berlina from Australia and is the four-door version of the Holden Monaro a.k.a Pontiac GTO
A company can build name recognition if its sells a car wiht the same name in many countries, like the ford focus, for example.
To the guy who wanted a Bu coup to have a bigger engine...
way back when camcords had smaller engines than American counterparts, the hype was al about fuel efficiency. Well, now the Bu is more fuel efficient than cam/cords, so if someone wants a coupe (car) that they don'thave to thump down gas money for, they can choose a bu.
I wonder if anyone wants to ask them if they will do a Bu coupe, they could move the Monte Carlo to a performance category with a v-8 and RWD.
If a Bu will have more styles and choices it will also score higher in mag comparos. Possibly peoples garages...
They already offer the Maxx, which is kind of a 5-door hatch, what about a full square-back wagon? Call it a crossover if you must.
-juice
On the other hand, my perception is that people are just the opposite with domestic companies (and not just car companies either).
It didn't help that the domestics muddled along for much of the last 20 years with merchandise that was often just rehashed versions of previous offerings, with the addition of new features, but no real improvement to the core quality or reliability for most of that time.
Some GM cars are great, others are mediocre, if you are to believe the folks that report on reliability.
So it's still a risk, and there's just 3/36 on the warranty to back you up.
CR rated the old Malibu "Good" but still could not recommend it based on their survey results. The new one should improve, their overall rating is now "Very Good", and perceived quality was slightly better in my test drive.
-juice
So I admit that the domestic companies have had their share of problems, and do have something to prove. It's still amazing to me that we give the Japorean brands so much more latitude and benefit of the doubt than the domestics though.
Our 626 gave us 5 good years. Then years 5 through 7 were horrible, I spent a small fortune keeping it running, so we dumped it.
My Forester has given me 5 good years and counting. Knock on wood.
-juice
Problems:
-worn / warped brake rotors, twice (the first time just after the car was a year old. GM hadn't admitted there was a problem before I'd replaced them twice either, but my second replacement was aftermarket versus OEM, and I had no more problems with them)
-alternators. Replaced 3 times.
-- The first time it died on the way to a parts store for the replacement. Unknown to us (and the mechanic doing the replacement, evidently), the pulley on the first replacement wasn't quite right, leading to later problems..
-- The second replacement (the first, despite the bad pulley, lasted almost 2 years) died less than a month before I traded the car off.
-Drive belts. I lost count. Directly related to the first replacement alternator pulley issue, the belts were worn very quickly. The first actually broke while on the interstate, and the car overheated as I manhandled it to the side of the road (no power steering, ugh!). Unfortunately, the cause of the wear wasn't discovered for quite a while (that was the reason the first replacement alternator was replaced, when we finally discovered what was eating the belts so quickly).
-Drive belt idler pulleys. There are at least 2 (maybe 3, don't remember and don't have the car to check on, so..). Replaced 2, one time. Closely related to the alternator issue too.
-Drive belt tensioner. Replaced once, same as above two items, related to the alternator.
-Slow loss of coolant. Started when the car overheated with the broken belt on the interstate. None of the shops seemed to be able to find out where the leak was though. So I kept a jug of DexCool handy, though the issue seemed to have self-cured by the time I traded the car.
-Front sway bar mounts. Replaced under warranty at the 18 month mark with a "redesigned" part.
-tires. The el-cheapo Firestone Affinity tires wore out fast! I replaced them with Bridgestone Potenza tires, and was about to replace those at trade-in (was looking at Goodyear Aquatread III's).
-A/C switch cutting itself off. I lived with this issue, since the dealership refused to cover it under the warranty, and wanted to replace the entire control head assembly for about $200. Given that the A/C DID work, but sometimes required me to turn it back on, I thought it was a better decision not to replace it.
-Dash guages going out. Only some of them, but included the gas guage. This was a result of a blown fuse caused when the second replacement alternator went bad while on a road trip. Replacing the alternator and the fuse fixed the issue (or so it seemed). The alternator was definitely the culprit, because less than 2 miles before the guages went, I had a nasty noise start coming from the alternator, as the brushes started coming apart.
-A/C compressor. Along with the guages, I lost A/C on that same trip, because of the same fuse. Unfortunately, something in the compressor was also going bad, maybe because of the alternator, but there wasn't any way to be sure. A local friend who is also a Delco mechanic at the nearby Chevy dealership contacted someone higher up to see if the issue had been seen elsewhere, because it was new to him. Issue- when using A/C the fuse would blow (knocking out the guages mentioned earlier), sometimes immediately after turning it on, other times as much as a few hours later. Final analysis from On High- 3 other cases, each required replacing the compressor. Cost to me- est. $800.
The car was paid for more than 2 years prior to the final alternator replacement, but was also outside of warranty. I had planned to keep it, and trade the Toyota (the MUCH older of our two vehicles) in another year or so for an extended cab pickup truck or SUV, and use the Malibu for general around-town and work commutes. The fact that the Malibu kept sucking money unexpectedly from my budget made the decision for me. IMO, it is better to have a known payment coming out that I can budget around than to think I have $x dollars for recreation, miscellaneous expenses, and investments, only to have my car eat it (or worse, have spent it, THEN have the car break). So I traded it off.
One good thing came of the whole experience. I will NEVER buy a first model year of any vehicle again. My TB was a second model year, produced just past midway through the model year, so I'm fairly sure most of the really big issues have been dealt with. Unfortunately, it also leaves me stuck with the almost 12 year old Corolla for another year or two, but at least that car, beaten up as it has become, is relatively reliable.
Actually, my Forester is a first year model (gulp!), but it was built in the 2nd half of the model year, perhaps some kinks were already ironed out.
Perhaps the Maxx will be better, given the 9-3 has been on this platform for a while.
-juice
I really did like that Malibu, for what it's worth. The cost was just too high.
As far as the Maxx goes, I'd think that it will have a better record from the start. GM seems to be making major strides lately. Many of their recent introductions have had far fewer reported problems than even second or third year models of older vehicles. But once burned, twice shy fits me well, so I'll let others buy them and find out for sure what (if any) problems there are, giving GM a chance to fix any wrinkles before I put money down on one.
I will tell you i liked what I could see but there were cars parked all around it so I couldn't get a very good look all around it. They must be hitting dealers now guys!!
-juice
I don't think that "many" is correct, more like a few. Chevy Aveo is one, but most that would not be US built would be from Canada or Mexico.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
-juice
Someone mentioned a few pages back about a new Saturn similar to the Maxx. From what the mostly uninformed workers like myself have been told it will either be built here alongside the Malibu's or at the plant where the Grand Am is built. Don't expect it for a few more years.
Just from seeing them in the plant I think the Maxx looks better than the sedan. We also saw a picture of a Malibu tricked out like a car from Fast and the Furious with a much more powerfull engine, sound system, bigger wheels, ground effects and the rest. It looked real good. It was built to show the possibilities of what the aftermarket could do for the car. I wish we would run them as a limited run each year to help hook younger buyers back to American cars. Get them to buy the supped up car now and the regular Malibu, Impala or something else when they are older.
Stick around, you'd be a good resource if any questions pop up. Talk about an inside view - you build the things!
-juice
At C$30K + he must have had a nicely equipped Maxx. I think they start in the C$27-28K range. I'd like to see that show, maybe they will re-run it. If I bought a Maxx I would go base with remote starter option as even the entry level is very well equipped. In terms of handling I suspect (knowing Graeme) he was looking for a sport wagon which this is not.