mpg5 said: "Be sure not to let on that you really love the car and that you have no alternatives, e.g. other cars ("Hey, you know, that Elantra GT is a really nice car and costs thousands less..."), even if you don't have realistic alternatives".
Exactly - the basic rule of negotiation, from an old peddler. We test drove our 3 twice and had decided to buy it, but each time told the salesman that we were test driving the Matrix and couldn't make up our mind. On the third visit, we said lets do some initial pricing to see where we are, and the rest is history - he was a good salesman and did not want us to leave the shop without a commitment.
At the same time, we didn't beat him over the head down to the last $50 - because he was an old timer, appreciated the business, and the good ones will go to bat for you on the service side if you don't abuse the privilege. Kinda basic!
That is what i was "thinking". I would rather not beat this guy down for an additional couple hundred if it might jeopardize my chance at getting better service down the road. Backy actually should be credited with the elantra quote. I am smart enough to know not to let on that this is my final choice. I mentioned GTI and WRX as my alternatives, but for the price and looks, the 3 has won me over. And i do realize that i am the one with the money who makes the final decision. Oh yeah, I would still like to know if anyone got the bumper step guard or all weather mats thrown in for free? and what is a rear skirt diffuser?
responding to npaladin2000.....well,I loved "ol'blue",but the gas mileage wasn't as great as I thought,and the ride was a bit more choppier than I liked.I think I'll be alright in the snow....and if it(the snow)gets out of hand.....I'll stay home.Driving the M3 has been really fun.I just have to remember to release the emergency brake....yeesh!Anyone know what to do with a scratch?I see white showing though past the black paint.
Despite the fact that Tronto and Montreal are further south than the above mentioned cities it does not preclude the fact that it is almost always colder here.
I mean at the peak of winter it was -20 in Toronto and -4 in Chicago, and yesterday it was 8 degrees in Totonto and 47 in Buffalo! The Japanese have made the right choice. And furthmore it is a little known fact that it is darker in the US than Canada - hence you guys get the Xenons we're stuck with Halogen...
They also commented on the fact that it was quiet and composed on the highway (that is, no excessive road noise).
Road noise must be just about the most subjective aspect of a car (the perception of it, and what it means to you). I personally wouldn't hear much anyway, since the radio will be on, and the moonroof open most of the time.
"Road noise must be just about the most subjective aspect of a car (the perception of it, and what it means to you)."
Unless the person can't detect low frequency noise, it's not subjective. Different surfaces such as coarse pavement or hollow concrete material makes a huge difference on these typical Mazda's.
Would you believe, in '90, R&T described the new Protege LX as so quiet you better watch out for speeding tickets? So I bought a brand-new one in S California. & what R&T said is simply not true -- especially on these concrete fwys, where I never got any speeding tickets 'cause I couldn't stand the noise as I continuously cruise at high speed. I still own this otherwise excellent car today, & the Turanza LS-H tires, additional sound insulations & aftermarket exhaust made the noise level acceptable now.
The degree of impact of road noise on individual enjoyment of the auto is subjective; the comparative degree of impact of road noise on personal enjoyment between two individuals is relative.
Road noise is relative to the heavieness of the driver's foot, times the current volume of the stereo, divided by the square root of the amount that the driver's window is down, times pi over the percentage of the time the moonroof is open. Hence the relative subjectiveness of the subject is simply :
Yes, where is the part of the equation that takes into account the "amount of volume from a mother or significant other who is complaining about the driver driving too fast" : (Vol^nagg)
"The degree of impact of road noise on individual enjoyment of the auto is subjective; the comparative degree of impact of road noise on personal enjoyment between two individuals is relative."
I remember when my parents let me buy the '90 Pro LX 5-sp, my impression was "Wow, it even has road noise -- reminds me of our old German-built '78 Rabbit Champaign Edition II". All other cars at home were automatics that are also so numb to drive but were road-noise free! They were '79 Caprice(just broke down), '86 760 Turbo & '86 RWD Corolla SR-5.
But pretty soon I could no longer tolerate this cacophony. The Pro was never a comfortable FWY cruiser, although still absorbs deep bumps at least twice as well as all the FWD Toyota's from the 20th century, & 10 times more than the RWD Corolla!
I came back from a trip yesterday (600km) with a rented 2004 Pontiac Gram amGT with all the goodies almost new (6000km) with a v6. The value: 28,000$can. Road noice was present but less than in my MZ3sport. But, this car had alot of window and exterior noise, way more than in my car. My collegue and I were talking with the radio off (she nows both cars. In a Civic you hear a lot of front tire!!! and suspension and wind and exterior noise. Makes the car feel cheap. MZ3 is mostly free from exterior noise. So therefore, IMO every econo cars become pretty when it comes to compare the different noises.
IMO, in 55 yrs of driving, passenger seat noise is the most difficult to stifle. Have had the problem with every vehicle I have owned. But,as I explained to the cop, I seldom drive, I just sit behind the wheel.
Liven up your evening and join your fellow enthusiasts every Tuesday from 6-7pm PT/9-10pm ET for our Mazda Mania Chat!
We have another set of Mazda-related trivia questions this week, so be prepared! And I'm hoping that icvci returns to let us know how the ad campaign/incentive idea is progressing! Hope to see YOU there on Tuesday!
I just managed to stuff a rather long box containing a computer armoir into my itty bitty hatch. Picked it up at Staples...I'll NEVER go back to a sedan!
My favorite car ever was a 87 Civic Wagon. It was a heap that I rescued from the junkyard. That's why I subscribed to this forum. The 3 looked like the first worthy choice since the last 323 wagon back in the 80's.
like my VW Golf TDI... I hope more diesels come our way in the States. Nothing like looking down at the fueld gage at 1/2 tank and realing you did almost 300 miles
I loved the VW TDI too, until I sat in the backseat of one. With fond memories of driving/riding around in VW Rabbit Diesels back in the early eighties, I was excited to check out the latest Golfs with the TDI engine (at least the latest Golfs available in the U.S. -- why does it take VW more than 2 years to move the steering wheel to the left hand side???) Went to the dealer, he had no Golf TDIs in stock, actually had very few Golfs on the lot -- Jettas are the big seller. So the salesman went and got a Jetta TDI for me to test drive. I walked up to the car with the engine running and I could still tell it was a diesel. Much much better sounding than the old Rabbit diesel that I remember, but I could tell. Inside the car the engine was quiet and not intrusive at all. Took the test drive and was impressed with the TDI engine. I'm thinking "I would surely love the mileage and I could put up with the inconvienance of searching for fuel and paying an arm and a leg for an oil change". Back at the dealership I go to check out a Golf (gas model) that is sitting on the showroom floor. Open the hatch - a little less space than the Mazda3 Hatch, but acceptable. I sit in the rear seat and my head is brushing the headliner!!! What the Hey I'm only 6 foot tall!!
No doubt about it, in small sport hatches, the Golf TDI wins the mileage game hands down but its lack of rear seat and head room gets it crossed off of my list. Only 2 vehicles remain -- Mazda3 Hatch and Matrix.
Cross off the Matrix; it's a torque-challenged marshmallow of a slug compared to the 3. I test drove both the AWD and FWD versions...the steering column is too short and it doesn't telescope, can't get comfortable, the seats are too soft, the interior feels a bit cheap, and it's REALLY difficult to see the gauges with sunglasses on (they're not bright enough at max).
Oh, and you get more for your money with the 3. The only trick is finding one because they're so popular.
I test drove the Matrix and was also unable to find a comfortable driving position. Either my arms were stretched or my legs were cramped. And the engine was so noisy. Granted, my P5 isn't exactly quiet but, IMO it isn't nearly as whiny as that in the Matrix. I didn't mind the interior. It isn't as nicely finished as my P5 and no where near that of the 3. But, it was functional and I really liked the room in the backseat.
After driving all, the driving is much better in the P5 and tons better in the 3.
Don't count on it. The orders they're taking now for custom-build purchases are scheduled to be filled in 6 months. The factory can't keep up with demand right now. best advice is start shopping NOW and continue to do so until you see one you like on the lot somewhere, then grab it.
Special financing might come....don't count on discounts or rebates. Prices may go UP at this rate...
My salesman called me to let me know that they found one exactly like the one I ordered sans leather. They would put leather in at no extra charge over what I will pay. I said no. I don't like aftermarket leather. When I see it at dealerships, it looks... aftermarket.
What do you guys think?
My big issue with the car is that Mazda left out a seat bottom cushion knob. When you raise the seat... it tips you forward. I DON'T like that. Why did Mazda leave it out?
Everyone is taliking about how popular this car is... yet I still see them on lots here in NY and only 2 on the road.
"at least the latest Golfs available in the U.S. -- why does it take VW more than 2 years to move the steering wheel to the left hand side???)"
It will come as news to everyone outside the UK that VW moves the steering wheel AT ALL from the EU to the US. This is a true LOL moment...and is the sort of thing that makes Americans seen so insular to everyone else in the world.
In any case, we have a legitimate complaint about the ridiculous delays between intro of a new VW model in EU and the availability here. Blame it on the perceived necessity to make most cars for the NA market in Mexico and Brazil; there is no real incentive to rush to convert the plants on this side of the Atlantic to the new models. Good for the competition [Mazda in this case], bad for VW. ALL of the Gen5 Golfs and Jettas will be made in North and South America...only the Passat will be imported. This is almost true now - the Jetta [Bora] wagon is the only one of the small cars that come from Germany.
Mazda is doing very well in the West. Once the weather warms up sales will too. (For the rest of the US.)
Aftermarket leather doesn't do a thing for me. IMO It's like aftermarket body kits, only those done very well even look decent.
As far as incentives later on, every manufacturer has some sort of summer sale and eventually, a year end clearance (whether or not it's labeled as such is another issue). If you want a better deal wait. Like everything, prices eventually drop. I don't think Mazda builds to suit, you get what there is. I could be wrong but, that was my understanding.
Trying to truly "custom order" a Mazda3 strikes me as a waste of time. There are a huge number of cars out there available in each marketing zone - a savvy dealer can lay his hands on just about anything, again, as long as there is some flexibility on color. I too am mystified by anyone who would switch to a different make of car over color, but to each their own...
And remember...this is a mass-market car; in 6 months, the discounts will be coming out your ears.
I'm one of the biggest dealers in my area.... we can't keep up with the sales rate and replacing car is alot harder than selling them. If you have some magic formula to get other dealers to give up cars they can sell at MSRP to a dealer for invoice, plz fill me in. Any help would be appreciated.
...there is no shortage of cars, if dealer ads and ready availability from brokers and online sources are any indication. I've had no trouble finding multiple colors and all popular option combinations from Seattle to Los Angeles. If that doesn't apply in the NE, well, my apologies...
I know of ONE car under $30k that currently seems to be made of Unobtainium, everywhere in the country, and that is the Toyota Prius. If East Coast Mazda dealers are in dire straits over Mazda3 supply, then more power to you...collect the $ while you can. And do check back with us at the end of the summer. If things are still that tight then, you know you've turned a corner with this franchise. Nothing like product, eh? Beats the heck out of all the marketing campaigns and hot air when you actually have something to sell that people really want. But it is hard to imagine this car being a "hot commodity" much past the first model year. We'll see...
I know of ONE car under $30k that currently seems to be made of Unobtainium, everywhere in the country, and that is the Toyota Prius.
And the MINI. I can also tell you that getting a Honda CR-V at or even near invoice in most parts of the country is unheard of. And it has been around for many years.
...I can get you all the CR-Vs you want, all day long, up and down the Left Coast. Big discounts? $100-$300 over invoice from CarsDirect in both Northern and Southern Calif, and that's without any dickering at all. Dealers up my way in Oregon and Washington are asking more, but I wouldn't pay much more since it is so easy to buy the car in CA.
The issue, here, I thought, was a claim that certain models of the Mazda3 can't be had at any price in a reasonable amount of time, and thus buyers were lost to a competitive make. I suppose that is possible, but highly unlikely in the West.
Minis I wouldn't know about - I've never been in a West Coast urban dealer who didn't have cars on the ground to sell, but there are so many option combinations and other choices that you could easily claim you can't find the car you want, and be right. In any case, BMW doesn't intend the Mini to be a mass-market product like the Mazda3.
Prius, on the other hand, is a car that pretty much rolls from the moment the wheels touch pavement off the transporter, everywhere in the country, nearly always at full MSRP or more. People are doing unnatural things to try to get these cars, with no relief in sight.
If the Mazda3 can be "hot" in the sense of real product shortage, long wait times, elevated asking prices, and multiple buyers competing for the same car by Sept of 2004, anywhere in the country, then both Ford and Mazda will have something to celebrate. Wouldn't bother me [I have a few shares of Ford stock], but just not likely...
"If the Mazda3 can be "hot" in the sense of real product shortage, long wait times, elevated asking prices, and multiple buyers competing for the same car by Sept of 2004..."
That won't happen. Especially when the new Focus rears its head.
Local dealers here (Twin Cities) report "over 100" Mazda3's in stock, and $1000 discounts off MSRP available with no dickering needed. That's before any Mazda rebates. "Hot" compared to the likes of Foci, Elantras, Corollas, and Civics, but not near Prius territory.
As for the seat problem mentioned above, I noticed the same thing on my test drive. Mazda had a great seat height adjuster on the Protege, with a dual-knob setup; why they went with the single adjuster on the 3 that tilts the seat up as it moves higher, I'll never know (cost?). Fortunately it was not a dealbreaker for me, as I could set the seat to be fairly comfortable, but not nearly as nice as on the Pro or my current car (Elantra).
Help me please,just came from mazda dealer, my black hatchback is having the paint "sandblasted" off the rocker panels (just in front of rear wheel is the worst) and bottom of doors, this problem started when the car was only a few weeks old...They repainted the entire lower 2 feet of the car, put on 4 mudflaps and now 10 days later its happening AGAIN!!! The district manager said it is probably a problem with the aerodynamics of the car combined with the 17" tires. Anyone out there having the same problem? If so please let me know. I'm sure this is more noticable on a black car but I advise all you hatchback owners to look carefully at the rocker panel. P.S._ I am so bummed, I LOVE THIS CAR...It drives great, looks great, but this paint problem is not so great...
Man, you scared the s**t out of me - rushed out to the garage - but after 2500 miles, not a mark anywhere on mine - it's a silver GT hatch. Haven't heard of anyone else having the problem either. Not April fools today, is it?
Comments
Exactly - the basic rule of negotiation, from an old peddler. We test drove our 3 twice and had decided to buy it, but each time told the salesman that we were test driving the Matrix and couldn't make up our mind. On the third visit, we said lets do some initial pricing to see where we are, and the rest is history - he was a good salesman and did not want us to leave the shop without a commitment.
At the same time, we didn't beat him over the head down to the last $50 - because he was an old timer, appreciated the business, and the good ones will go to bat for you on the service side if you don't abuse the privilege. Kinda basic!
I mean at the peak of winter it was -20 in Toronto and -4 in Chicago, and yesterday it was 8 degrees in Totonto and 47 in Buffalo! The Japanese have made the right choice. And furthmore it is a little known fact that it is darker in the US than Canada - hence you guys get the Xenons we're stuck with Halogen...
LOL :0)
Maybe US drivers have poorer eyesight. Are more easily distracted
fowler3
Road noise must be just about the most subjective aspect of a car (the perception of it, and what it means to you). I personally wouldn't hear much anyway, since the radio will be on, and the moonroof open most of the time.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Unless the person can't detect low frequency noise, it's not subjective. Different surfaces such as coarse pavement or hollow concrete material makes a huge difference on these typical Mazda's.
Would you believe, in '90, R&T described the new Protege LX as so quiet you better watch out for speeding tickets? So I bought a brand-new one in S California. & what R&T said is simply not true -- especially on these concrete fwys, where I never got any speeding tickets 'cause I couldn't stand the noise as I continuously cruise at high speed. I still own this otherwise excellent car today, & the Turanza LS-H tires, additional sound insulations & aftermarket exhaust made the noise level acceptable now.
The degree of impact of road noise on individual enjoyment of the auto is subjective; the comparative degree of impact of road noise on personal enjoyment between two individuals is relative.
Whew!
X = ( ( Lead * Vol ) / ( √Win ) ) * ( π / Moon% )
Any questions?
Yes, where is the part of the equation that takes into account the "amount of volume from a mother or significant other who is complaining about the driver driving too fast" : (Vol^nagg)
I remember when my parents let me buy the '90 Pro LX 5-sp, my impression was "Wow, it even has road noise -- reminds me of our old German-built '78 Rabbit Champaign Edition II". All other cars at home were automatics that are also so numb to drive but were road-noise free! They were '79 Caprice(just broke down), '86 760 Turbo & '86 RWD Corolla SR-5.
But pretty soon I could no longer tolerate this cacophony. The Pro was never a comfortable FWY cruiser, although still absorbs deep bumps at least twice as well as all the FWD Toyota's from the 20th century, & 10 times more than the RWD Corolla!
... So therefore, IMO every econo cars become pretty comparable when you take into account all the different noises each brand makes.
He wasn't amused, nor was my 'passenger'.
Liven up your evening and join your fellow enthusiasts every Tuesday from 6-7pm PT/9-10pm ET for our Mazda Mania Chat!
We have another set of Mazda-related trivia questions this week, so be prepared! And I'm hoping that icvci returns to let us know how the ad campaign/incentive idea is progressing! Hope to see YOU there on Tuesday!
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My favorite car ever was a 87 Civic Wagon. It was a heap that I rescued from the junkyard. That's why I subscribed to this forum. The 3 looked like the first worthy choice since the last 323 wagon back in the 80's.
No doubt about it, in small sport hatches, the Golf TDI wins the mileage game hands down but its lack of rear seat and head room gets it crossed off of my list. Only 2 vehicles remain -- Mazda3 Hatch and Matrix.
Oh, and you get more for your money with the 3. The only trick is finding one because they're so popular.
After driving all, the driving is much better in the P5 and tons better in the 3.
Special financing might come....don't count on discounts or rebates. Prices may go UP at this rate...
What do you guys think?
My big issue with the car is that Mazda left out a seat bottom cushion knob. When you raise the seat... it tips you forward. I DON'T like that. Why did Mazda leave it out?
Everyone is taliking about how popular this car is... yet I still see them on lots here in NY and only 2 on the road.
It will come as news to everyone outside the UK that VW moves the steering wheel AT ALL from the EU to the US. This is a true LOL moment...and is the sort of thing that makes Americans seen so insular to everyone else in the world.
In any case, we have a legitimate complaint about the ridiculous delays between intro of a new VW model in EU and the availability here. Blame it on the perceived necessity to make most cars for the NA market in Mexico and Brazil; there is no real incentive to rush to convert the plants on this side of the Atlantic to the new models. Good for the competition [Mazda in this case], bad for VW. ALL of the Gen5 Golfs and Jettas will be made in North and South America...only the Passat will be imported. This is almost true now - the Jetta [Bora] wagon is the only one of the small cars that come from Germany.
Aftermarket leather doesn't do a thing for me. IMO It's like aftermarket body kits, only those done very well even look decent.
As far as incentives later on, every manufacturer has some sort of summer sale and eventually, a year end clearance (whether or not it's labeled as such is another issue). If you want a better deal wait. Like everything, prices eventually drop. I don't think Mazda builds to suit, you get what there is. I could be wrong but, that was my understanding.
And remember...this is a mass-market car; in 6 months, the discounts will be coming out your ears.
we can't keep up with the sales rate and replacing car is alot harder than selling them. If you have some magic formula to get other dealers to give up cars they can sell at MSRP to a dealer for invoice, plz fill me in. Any help would be appreciated.
I know of ONE car under $30k that currently seems to be made of Unobtainium, everywhere in the country, and that is the Toyota Prius. If East Coast Mazda dealers are in dire straits over Mazda3 supply, then more power to you...collect the $ while you can. And do check back with us at the end of the summer. If things are still that tight then, you know you've turned a corner with this franchise. Nothing like product, eh? Beats the heck out of all the marketing campaigns and hot air when you actually have something to sell that people really want. But it is hard to imagine this car being a "hot commodity" much past the first model year. We'll see...
And the MINI. I can also tell you that getting a Honda CR-V at or even near invoice in most parts of the country is unheard of. And it has been around for many years.
The issue, here, I thought, was a claim that certain models of the Mazda3 can't be had at any price in a reasonable amount of time, and thus buyers were lost to a competitive make. I suppose that is possible, but highly unlikely in the West.
Minis I wouldn't know about - I've never been in a West Coast urban dealer who didn't have cars on the ground to sell, but there are so many option combinations and other choices that you could easily claim you can't find the car you want, and be right. In any case, BMW doesn't intend the Mini to be a mass-market product like the Mazda3.
Prius, on the other hand, is a car that pretty much rolls from the moment the wheels touch pavement off the transporter, everywhere in the country, nearly always at full MSRP or more. People are doing unnatural things to try to get these cars, with no relief in sight.
If the Mazda3 can be "hot" in the sense of real product shortage, long wait times, elevated asking prices, and multiple buyers competing for the same car by Sept of 2004, anywhere in the country, then both Ford and Mazda will have something to celebrate. Wouldn't bother me [I have a few shares of Ford stock], but just not likely...
That won't happen. Especially when the new Focus rears its head.
As for the seat problem mentioned above, I noticed the same thing on my test drive. Mazda had a great seat height adjuster on the Protege, with a dual-knob setup; why they went with the single adjuster on the 3 that tilts the seat up as it moves higher, I'll never know (cost?). Fortunately it was not a dealbreaker for me, as I could set the seat to be fairly comfortable, but not nearly as nice as on the Pro or my current car (Elantra).
Anyone out there having the same problem? If so please let me know. I'm sure this is more noticable on a black car but I advise all you hatchback owners to look carefully at the rocker panel.
P.S._ I am so bummed, I LOVE THIS CAR...It drives great, looks great, but this paint problem is not so great...