"This replacement for the Protegé will likely debut as a five-door hatch similar to the current Protegé5 before spawning sedan and three-door hatch variants."
I've heard reports that the Mazda3 will not be released in the USA until mid-to-late 2004. Note that Edmunds information on it is calling it a 2005 model.
Front: The current PRO/P5 look sharper IMO Side: Ok Rear: LOVE it!!! The P5 and the sedan without the spoiler currently lack decent rwar styling, but the M3 reminds me of the RX-8 a lot! And that's NOT a bad thing
It seems that the car makers just keep making cars taller and taller. I think the overall styling is nice but would look better if the the greenhouse was dropped a few inches.
is definitively an european tendency since the last 10 years, or the art how to make a big interior room for a compact exterior.
Not bad the new Mazda 3, a mixing between GT Cruiser (front), Lexus (back), and Alfa Romeo 147 (overall shape). However I remember to be moved even more when seeing for the first time the Protege5, which didn't resemble to anything else on the market at the time.
The interior (japanese Mazda webpage) is a little too busy for my taste.
"Taller is definitively an european tendency since the last 10 years, or the art how to make a big interior room for a compact exterior."
Low floor, as found in FWD cars, & high ceiling is the way to go. Not high floor like an SUV.
Besides, lower floor is needed for the higher roof to compensate for the center of gravity.
If all cars have been like this Saab-Jetta-like high-chair configurations w/ tall roof as high as an S-class or Checker's taxi cab, then America would never have gotten the rebound effect of the uncomfortable seating & started that loser high-center-of-gravity SUV trend that not only endangers the whole world, but blocks others' visibility, especially for the fun-to-drive sports cars.
This low-floor Mazda5 hatch "counterfeit SUV" is to amend our mistakes by stealing the SUV sales.
Architecture of an SUV can't have a too-low-floor because the chassis is located above the wheel axes, unlike other regular cars. This feature allows an SUV to tackle dirt roads. The question is why someone who never intend go drive on dirk roads would buy them? I honestly don't know. The high seating position is good for at least one thing: the conductor can see father of the road and traffic, but I double this is the main reason for their success. SUV buyers must think in case occurring of an accident, they are safer as being higher than the opponent car. Those cars roll like a rolling-stone. ;-)
The Mazda3 pictures from Mazda's press release is not 100% accurate. I've now seen the actual Job #1 car and there are 2 main differences to the press release pictures:
- fog-light housing in the lower front fascia doesn't have circular edges. In reality, it looks very much like the Mazda6 sport package (but with even sharper outer edges). The fog lights are located in the lower front fascia, as the press pictures show. - the wheels in the press release are the MX Sportif 18 inch wheels. Production versions are 17 inch, and silver (not polished as in the press release)
The job #1 car supposes to be built with european spec, and presumably for european market. No big surprise, one shouldn't expect either pictures to be 100% "accurate".
I downloaded the zip files from the link above, but the unzipped EPS files seem to have a problem. All of my apps keep saying they are not a proper eps format. Have any of you been able to open these files?
If so, how did you do it, or what program did you use?
I think the reasoning behind it is to make more interior room inside the car. The 3 hatch isn't bad looking but I like the Pro 5 better. The Pro 5 is perfect looking so its hard to improve something that you can't make any better looking.
No problem here. EPS is an Encapsulated Postscript file, a special kind of postscript that doesn't have page description and is used to to include the picture into other files. Windows usually hates those, and Laser printers adores them. My ghostscript (Unix OS) opens it without any problem.
with less ornaments and artifacts, the Protege5 still has a little more personality to my eyes. It's more masculine whereas the Mazda 3 is more feminine.
If you want to view them, import them into Canvas, Illustrator, FreeHand as a "native" (not EPS) object.
I use Canvas on both Mac and XP and it can create a native image from the EPS data. You can then save this image out as a JPEG file (or whatever format you like that is supported by your software). The JPEG, when set to the same apparent resolution as the EPS image, will be about 2-3X as large in file size. Yikes. Nice full-page (approx. 8x10 inches) images though.
I thought Acrobat Reader would be able to open it, but it choked. Explorer crashed when I tried to open it (hoping the Acrobat plug-in would load the image).
Good way of putting it. I think the 3 is overstylized ("Matrixed" or "Bangled"), especially that crease line extending from the hood to over the rear haunches that seems to meander along the way. Ick.
I'm also not a fan of the deeply-set dash instruments. It compromises visibility of the instruments in the Matrix, to the point of where I couldn't see parts of the off-center displays). I didn't notice it being a problem in the RX-8, but I wasn't looking at the instruments much (I knew I was forgetting something...I was just so happy to find a comfortable seating position where my scalp wasn't pressed into the headliner). I hope the ones in the 3 don't suffer from the compromised visibility that is strongly evident in the Matrix's dash.
"Good way of putting it. I think the 3 is overstylized ("Matrixed" or "Bangled"), especially that crease line extending from the hood to over the rear haunches that seems to meander along the way. Ick"
That's where the car seem overdone to me also. I think it would have helped to wash that line out across the doors (keep them over the wheel wells like haunches), then the windows wouldn't seem so high. It's all subjective in the end. I find the Audi TT to be absolutely beautiful in it's understated lines and very low overall height. I guess most cars are going to look over done and tall in reference to the TT.
Those specs are for the MX Sportif. But, since the Sportif and the Mazda3 hatch are almost the same, the only spec that is incorrect are the wheels, the largest wheels for the production Mazda3 are 17's.
Also, MazdaUSA has confirmed that the 2 engines for the US will be the 2.0l and the 2.3l (from the Mazda6).
No idea on the fuel mileage numbers, but to get an idea of the 2.3l mileage, just look at the Mazda6 (it'll be a little better than the Mazda6 cause the car's smaller). If I remember right, the 2.0l is PZEV.
Perhaps design will evolve to the point where drivers will get a Fiat-like seating position (AKA Greyhound bus) to deal with, and passengers will stand and hang onto straps. It'll add greatly to the excitement when negotiating curves, plus free up space that can be utilized for a larger cargo area. A little imagination will suggest other possibilities.
The 2004 Focus is getting a 2.3L PZEV which was formerly only available in three states.
I believe this is the non-VVT version of the 2.3 that can be had in the 6i. I would think the 3 will get the same version.
It still makes around 145 HP and 140 lb/ft. without the VVT. The power and smoothness of this new engine have been getting a lot of praise over on the Focus boards.
If Mazda does in fact use the VVT version in the 3, sign me up! That thing would lay waste to an SVT Focus any day. Not to mention what it would do to a 6i.
How the inner space get bigger with taller car? Here is:
First, it allows to have a taller but shorter hood. With this design, the hood is almost parallel to the windshield. The front seats get closer to the nose of the car and this allows a little extra space. The Renault Scenic is not much longer than the Mazda3 but there are no less than seven seats inside! Yes seven=7! If you are familiar with such car, it's a little bit strange to drive them because the driver is seating closer than ever to the front wheels. When you get an opportunity during your next vacation in Europe, please try to rent a Peugeot 307 and you will know what I mean.
"I believe this is the non-VVT version of the 2.3 that can be had in the 6i. I would think the 3 will get the same version."
Found on a non-Edmunds Miata related discussion:
"Ford is using a number of engines ranging from 1.8 to 2.3 litres in the Focus and Mondeo which use the same block, conrods and crank as Mazda's L-series four (L8, LF and L3). The Ford versions use an in-house design for the cylinder head (and internals) as well as pistons to suit.
Ford's put Mazda in as the lead division on sub 2.5 litre engines for the whole corporation. As was done with the Jaguar/Lincoln 4.0 V8, cylinder heads are specific to the different brands, but the block architecture's common."
The author of the above comment is Bob Hall, father of the Miata. Sounds like the top of the engine in the Focus is all Ford. I would expect the top of the 2.3L in the 3 to match that in the 6 for simplicity's sake.
I'm pretty certain that the Mazda3 2.3l engine will be the same spec as the 2.3l on the Mazda6(i.e. it will have VVT, unlike the Ford Focus version).
As for the PZEV thing for the 2.0l, here's the quote from the MX Sportif press release:
Maximum output is estimated at 110 kW at 6000 rpm and maximum torque is estimated at 187 Nm at 4500 rpm. In terms of environmental performance, the MZR engine in the MX Sportif aims to meet the PZEV (partial zero emission vehicle) standard in the United States, the European Commission's Euro 4 standard and the U-LEV (ultra-low emissions vehicle) standard in Japan. The engine in mated to a close-ratio, short-throw five-speed manual transmission.
So it 'aims' to meet the US PZEV specifications.
One more thing, since we're in the Mazda3 hatch forum, I've heard (but unconfirmed) that the US-spec Mazda3 hatch will only come in sport versions and therefore only the 2.3l will be available (the 2.0l may only be for the US-spec sedan).
"'It lifts the back @ speed & spins & crashes!' (Audi TT)
creakid1, where did you read this?"
It's been said all over, at least in Europe, since the beginning. I guess we got the TT so late that the rear spoiler & ESP were already added. Some Brit magazines mentioned that they didn't have that problem w/ the early spoiler-less TT.
"Future vehicles Perhaps design will evolve to the point where drivers will get a Fiat-like seating position (AKA Greyhound bus) to deal with, and passengers will stand and hang onto straps. It'll add greatly to the excitement when negotiating curves, plus free up space that can be utilized for a larger cargo area. A little imagination will suggest other possibilities."
That was very good, mudflat. I really think the French/Italian long-arm/short-leg "monkey" driving position is to make clearance for the short-leg/big-bust ladies from being blown by the steering air bags. Echo, new Corolla, & Prius are definitely designed for the small drivers.
The semi-standing posture can also be found when raising the driver seat to the highest position & only your butt gets jacked up, as found in the new Corolla & CRV(at least the old one, I haven't checked out the new one's driver seat).
This is som'in you don't find in the true-driver's cars like Mazdas, as the "monkey" driving position will annoy the hell out of the serious drivers that aren't short. As the Road&Track "In Control" driving-teaching video could only use Mazda vehicles for driving-position demonstrations.
This "cab-forward" design, as they called it, from the original Chrysler LH sedans is definitely stupid. Chrysler sounded like they're the one INVENTED this concept. Come on, even a 5 year-old can think of this interior arrangement.
Well, here's what the Aug '94 Car&Driver(p.93) discovered on the grand-exterior-length long-wheelbase LHS:
"...wheel-well humps intrude on forward cab of cab-forward design."
Stupid, indeed, especially for failing to provide the driver comfort on such a bulky roomy car. The culprit? "miles long" front overhang.
Soon, in '95, Mazda introduced the enormously roomy new Protege compact sedan w/o that annoying wheel hump & had to call this interior packaging concept w/ a slightly different term - "cabin forward".
That made-in-Japan Protege, albeit expensive for an economy car due to the currency exchange rate, was way way roomier than the top-of-the-line 929 & Millenia! & at least as roomy as the 626 w/o the comfortably-tall rear chairs. I figured, w/o ruining the Protege's sound insulation, they can't sell these expensive & cramped 929/Millenia, especially the Millenia wasn't even so quiet to begin with.
I really think the French/Italian long-arm/short-leg "monkey" driving position is to make clearance for the short-leg/big-bust ladies from being blown by the steering air bags. Echo, new Corolla, & Prius are definitely designed for the small drivers.
Urrrg. You are completely entitled of your opinion, but I don't know where you get those ideas. It's not totally correct.
Fact No 1: Echo, Prius, and Corolla are more popular in US than in Europe. In Europe, especially in France and Italy, you'll find that Peugeot 206 & 307, Renault Clio & Megane, Volkswagen Golf, Open Astra, Fiat Bravo, etc... that really rule the roads. Those cars also rule the Rallye competition and driven by virtuoso pilots.
Fact No 2: the "cab-forward" was designed (Matra, bought by Renault later in the earlier 80s) and became popular well before the event of Airbag in europe.
Fact No 3: the "cab forward" doesn't necessary interfere and compromise the driver seating position. Generalizing from the the Toyota Echo is simply a gross mistake.
A friend of mine who is 6'5" and bought a Renault Twingo (a tiny car with the "cab forward" design) because he is completely comfortable in driving it.
The problem I see with the 3 hatch is the younger people are not going to buy it. Its too tall looking for them. The current Pro 5 prides itself on younger buyers(I know some older people do drive Pro 5's but its a favorite among young people too.) Mazda better hope the younger people buy the 3 sedan or else this is going to be another mistake of Mazda's( ala 95 Protege) where yeah it has alot room but the 2nd generation Protege didn't offer anything over a Corolla or Civic at that time. Ironically enough the 99-03 Protege actually had less interior room than the 95-98 Protege and the 99-03 Protege sold better than the 95-98 model. Go figure!
As for the 3 hatch being Matrixed or Bangelized as people have called it I don't think its that bad. I really don't care for BMW's new styling. I just think BMW's new styling looks on their cars looks "off line" if you will. The new 7 Series reminds of the 02+ Camry: The outside just looks very disproporatanite. The front end and back end do not go together very well. Anyway back to the 3 its just too tall and thick looking. It reminds me of Toyota's current styling theme. Thats why the Matrix failed at getting younger buyers: it was too tall and thick looking. Young people ages 20-25 do not care about room in their cars if they did the Matrix would have all the youth buyers while the Pro 5 didn't. The Pro 5 made it big with younger buyers because of its styling.
Is it possible that the Mazda3 is purposingly targeted for older buyers?
IMHO, it's probably more successful with women than in the case of the Protege5. Most of the Protege5 I see are conducted by a male. But who are we to critic the Mazda3 design? I hope the design engineers and marketing folks at Mazda must do at least the minimum of their homeworks before launching the product.
Considering the botched strategy of the 6 Mazda doesn't know who their marketing too with that car. Yes we know who its marketed too: people who don't all that interior room of a Camry and Accord and people who don't want a bland car but what age demographic is the 6 supposed to be marketed too? What that said they could botch the 3 marketing age marketing demographic like they did with the 6. They scored a home-run with the Pro 5 but the 6 and 3 hatch I'm not so sure about.
Mazda did enough damages to themselves previously in wanting to compete closely with Accord and Camry. I don't know how the Mazda6 is successful worldwide. We should look in a larger picture. Sorry, but US is not the center of the universe. I'm in France right now. I see few Mazda6 on the road, and ZERO Camry or Accord. The European media and public seem to have sharper eyes than they colleagues in the US. Since 2003, do they have production and sale numbers much better than expected? Come on! I find Mazda did the right things with the Mazda6 design and probably with the Mazda3 too.
They messed up the option packages in the US. They tried to nickel and dime people with the option packages and people wouldn't go for it. Its weird because Nissan gets with away with Nickel and diming people on option packages with the new Altima. In europe the car market is a little different than in the US. People don't drive SUV's in Europe(I live in the Us but I don't really don't care for the current SUV trend.) Also people buy cars based on horsepower(thats why the new Altima is doing so well in the US.) Yes, Mazda did everything right with the 6 exterior design in the US but people are still going for Camry's, Altima's, and Accord's. Mazda sales are under average for the 6. Mazda wanted to sell 80k 6's in the 03 model year but probably will only sell 52K 6's in the US this year. I have seen like 20 6's in my state but people are buying 03 Accords and 03 Corolla's like crazy. Mazda is losing money like crazy in the NA but is very profitable outside NA.
As for the 3 I don't know if Mazda catered to the NA market with the hatch design. This board says no they didn't.
"Fact No 2: the "cab-forward" was designed (Matra, bought by Renault later in the earlier 80s) and became popular well before the event of Airbag in europe."
That's why I was puzzled why it's been like long-arm/short-leg driving position since before the airbags. Maybe southern Europeans or people from the past are shorter. Or in the old tradition, cars got no headrests so people lean forward to drive. Anyway, these French/Italian-style driving positions are being criticized by the Brit car magazines as well.
Comments
Read the full story in Edmunds' Future Vehicles Section: 2005 Mazda 3 Hatchback.
Thanks for your comments!
Revka
Host
Hatchbacks & Wagons Boards
Here's a direct link to Mazda's most recent press release & photos of the Mazda3 (5 door) hatch. Also, click on the photo there to view other photos of the Mazda3. Hope you enjoy! Please return to this discussion to post your comments.
Thanks for your participation. ;-)
Revka
Side: Ok
Rear: LOVE it!!! The P5 and the sedan without the spoiler currently lack decent rwar styling, but the M3 reminds me of the RX-8 a lot! And that's NOT a bad thing
Dinu
Not bad the new Mazda 3, a mixing between GT Cruiser (front), Lexus (back), and Alfa Romeo 147 (overall shape). However I remember to be moved even more when seeing for the first time the Protege5, which didn't resemble to anything else on the market at the time.
The interior (japanese Mazda webpage) is a little too busy for my taste.
Bruno
is definitively an european tendency since the last 10 years, or the art how to make a big interior room for a compact exterior."
Low floor, as found in FWD cars, & high ceiling is the way to go. Not high floor like an SUV.
Besides, lower floor is needed for the higher roof to compensate for the center of gravity.
If all cars have been like this Saab-Jetta-like high-chair configurations w/ tall roof as high as an S-class or Checker's taxi cab, then America would never have gotten the rebound effect of the uncomfortable seating & started that loser high-center-of-gravity SUV trend that not only endangers the whole world, but blocks others' visibility, especially for the fun-to-drive sports cars.
This low-floor Mazda5 hatch "counterfeit SUV" is to amend our mistakes by stealing the SUV sales.
- fog-light housing in the lower front fascia doesn't have circular edges. In reality, it looks very much like the Mazda6 sport package (but with even sharper outer edges). The fog lights are located in the lower front fascia, as the press pictures show.
- the wheels in the press release are the MX Sportif 18 inch wheels. Production versions are 17 inch, and silver (not polished as in the press release)
If so, how did you do it, or what program did you use?
If you want to view them, import them into Canvas, Illustrator, FreeHand as a "native" (not EPS) object.
I use Canvas on both Mac and XP and it can create a native image from the EPS data. You can then save this image out as a JPEG file (or whatever format you like that is supported by your software). The JPEG, when set to the same apparent resolution as the EPS image, will be about 2-3X as large in file size. Yikes. Nice full-page (approx. 8x10 inches) images though.
I thought Acrobat Reader would be able to open it, but it choked. Explorer crashed when I tried to open it (hoping the Acrobat plug-in would load the image).
I'm also not a fan of the deeply-set dash instruments. It compromises visibility of the instruments in the Matrix, to the point of where I couldn't see parts of the off-center displays). I didn't notice it being a problem in the RX-8, but I wasn't looking at the instruments much (I knew I was forgetting something...I was just so happy to find a comfortable seating position where my scalp wasn't pressed into the headliner). I hope the ones in the 3 don't suffer from the compromised visibility that is strongly evident in the Matrix's dash.
hey i didn't know there was a Mazda3 hatch discussion!!!
That's where the car seem overdone to me also. I think it would have helped to wash that line out across the doors (keep them over the wheel wells like haunches), then the windows wouldn't seem so high. It's all subjective in the end. I find the Audi TT to be absolutely beautiful in it's understated lines and very low overall height. I guess most cars are going to look over done and tall in reference to the TT.
width: 69.3"
height: 57.1"
wheel base: 103.9"
Track front/rear: 60.4/60.2"
Wheel size: 225/45R16 Rims: 7JJ
Engine: MZR 2.0l
Power: 148hp @ 6000rpm
Torque: 135lb.ft @ 4500rpm
Surprise, it's lower and wider than the Protege5
Bruno
Fortunately I was never attracted to TT's shape.
It's suppose to look deceptively tall like an SUV to take on its market.
All this is now academic & moot AFAI'm Concerned! Zoom Zoom!
Heck, Zoom Zoom! Zoom Zoom! until (if) I sell my Protege!
Zoom, zooooom!
Also, MazdaUSA has confirmed that the 2 engines for the US will be the 2.0l and the 2.3l (from the Mazda6).
Well, I guess I'll have to see one in person before I make my final judgement on it's design.
"It lifts the back @ speed & spins & crashes!" (Audi TT)
creakid1, where did you read this?
And I think it was at elevated autobahn speeds. Ones we're not likely to encounter here.
The 2004 Focus is getting a 2.3L PZEV which was formerly only available in three states.
I believe this is the non-VVT version of the 2.3 that can be had in the 6i. I would think the 3 will get the same version.
It still makes around 145 HP and 140 lb/ft. without the VVT. The power and smoothness of this new engine have been getting a lot of praise over on the Focus boards.
If Mazda does in fact use the VVT version in the 3, sign me up! That thing would lay waste to an SVT Focus any day. Not to mention what it would do to a 6i.
First, it allows to have a taller but shorter hood. With this design, the hood is almost parallel to the windshield. The front seats get closer to the nose of the car and this allows a little extra space. The Renault Scenic is not much longer than the Mazda3 but there are no less than seven seats inside! Yes seven=7! If you are familiar with such car, it's a little bit strange to drive them because the driver is seating closer than ever to the front wheels. When you get an opportunity during your next vacation in Europe, please try to rent a Peugeot 307 and you will know what I mean.
Bruno
Found on a non-Edmunds Miata related discussion:
"Ford is using a number of engines ranging from 1.8 to 2.3 litres in the Focus and Mondeo which use the same block, conrods and crank as Mazda's L-series four (L8, LF and L3). The Ford versions use an in-house design for the cylinder head (and internals) as well as pistons to suit.
Ford's put Mazda in as the lead division on sub 2.5 litre engines for the whole corporation. As was done with the Jaguar/Lincoln 4.0 V8, cylinder heads are specific to the different brands, but the block architecture's common."
The author of the above comment is Bob Hall, father of the Miata. Sounds like the top of the engine in the Focus is all Ford. I would expect the top of the 2.3L in the 3 to match that in the 6 for simplicity's sake.
As for the PZEV thing for the 2.0l, here's the quote from the MX Sportif press release:
Maximum output is estimated at 110 kW at 6000 rpm and maximum torque is estimated at 187 Nm at 4500 rpm. In terms of environmental performance, the MZR engine in the MX Sportif aims to meet the PZEV (partial zero emission vehicle) standard in the United States, the European Commission's Euro 4 standard and the U-LEV (ultra-low emissions vehicle) standard in Japan. The engine in mated to a close-ratio, short-throw five-speed manual transmission.
So it 'aims' to meet the US PZEV specifications.
One more thing, since we're in the Mazda3 hatch forum, I've heard (but unconfirmed) that the US-spec Mazda3 hatch will only come in sport versions and therefore only the 2.3l will be available (the 2.0l may only be for the US-spec sedan).
creakid1, where did you read this?"
It's been said all over, at least in Europe, since the beginning. I guess we got the TT so late that the rear spoiler & ESP were already added. Some Brit magazines mentioned that they didn't have that problem w/ the early spoiler-less TT.
Perhaps design will evolve to the point where drivers will get a Fiat-like seating position (AKA Greyhound bus) to deal with, and passengers will stand and hang onto straps. It'll add greatly to the excitement when negotiating curves, plus free up space that can be utilized for a larger cargo area. A little imagination will suggest other possibilities."
That was very good, mudflat. I really think the French/Italian long-arm/short-leg "monkey" driving position is to make clearance for the short-leg/big-bust ladies from being blown by the steering air bags. Echo, new Corolla, & Prius are definitely designed for the small drivers.
The semi-standing posture can also be found when raising the driver seat to the highest position & only your butt gets jacked up, as found in the new Corolla & CRV(at least the old one, I haven't checked out the new one's driver seat).
This is som'in you don't find in the true-driver's cars like Mazdas, as the "monkey" driving position will annoy the hell out of the serious drivers that aren't short. As the Road&Track "In Control" driving-teaching video could only use Mazda vehicles for driving-position demonstrations.
This "cab-forward" design, as they called it, from the original Chrysler LH sedans is definitely stupid. Chrysler sounded like they're the one INVENTED this concept. Come on, even a 5 year-old can think of this interior arrangement.
Well, here's what the Aug '94 Car&Driver(p.93) discovered on the grand-exterior-length long-wheelbase LHS:
"...wheel-well humps intrude on forward cab of cab-forward design."
Stupid, indeed, especially for failing to provide the driver comfort on such a bulky roomy car. The culprit? "miles long" front overhang.
Soon, in '95, Mazda introduced the enormously roomy new Protege compact sedan w/o that annoying wheel hump & had to call this interior packaging concept w/ a slightly different term - "cabin forward".
That made-in-Japan Protege, albeit expensive for an economy car due to the currency exchange rate, was way way roomier than the top-of-the-line 929 & Millenia! & at least as roomy as the 626 w/o the comfortably-tall rear chairs. I figured, w/o ruining the Protege's sound insulation, they can't sell these expensive & cramped 929/Millenia, especially the Millenia wasn't even so quiet to begin with.
Urrrg. You are completely entitled of your opinion, but I don't know where you get those ideas. It's not totally correct.
Fact No 1: Echo, Prius, and Corolla are more popular in US than in Europe. In Europe, especially in France and Italy, you'll find that Peugeot 206 & 307, Renault Clio & Megane, Volkswagen Golf, Open Astra, Fiat Bravo, etc... that really rule the roads. Those cars also rule the Rallye competition and driven by virtuoso pilots.
Fact No 2: the "cab-forward" was designed (Matra, bought by Renault later in the earlier 80s) and became popular well before the event of Airbag in europe.
Fact No 3: the "cab forward" doesn't necessary interfere and compromise the driver seating position. Generalizing from the the Toyota Echo is simply a gross mistake.
A friend of mine who is 6'5" and bought a Renault Twingo (a tiny car with the "cab forward" design) because he is completely comfortable in driving it.
Bruno
As for the 3 hatch being Matrixed or Bangelized as people have called it I don't think its that bad. I really don't care for BMW's new styling. I just think BMW's new styling looks on their cars looks "off line" if you will. The new 7 Series reminds of the 02+ Camry: The outside just looks very disproporatanite. The front end and back end do not go together very well. Anyway back to the 3 its just too tall and thick looking. It reminds me of Toyota's current styling theme. Thats why the Matrix failed at getting younger buyers: it was too tall and thick looking. Young people ages 20-25 do not care about room in their cars if they did the Matrix would have all the youth buyers while the Pro 5 didn't. The Pro 5 made it big with younger buyers because of its styling.
IMHO, it's probably more successful with women than in the case of the Protege5. Most of the Protege5 I see are conducted by a male. But who are we to critic the Mazda3 design? I hope the design engineers and marketing folks at Mazda must do at least the minimum of their homeworks before launching the product.
Bruno
Bruno
As for the 3 I don't know if Mazda catered to the NA market with the hatch design. This board says no they didn't.
Since the BMW X5 looks just like the P5 but taller, maybe Mazda believe that the taller the more expensive looking.
That's why I was puzzled why it's been like long-arm/short-leg driving position since before the airbags. Maybe southern Europeans or people from the past are shorter. Or in the old tradition, cars got no headrests so people lean forward to drive. Anyway, these French/Italian-style driving positions are being criticized by the Brit car magazines as well.
W/ that window design, the 3 is more similar to the Pontiac Vibe & Nissan Murano SUVs than the Matrix.
"The new 7 Series reminds of the 02+ Camry: The outside just looks very disproporatanite. The front end and back end do not go together very well."
Face lift of the 7-series is on it's way, pretty soon. Yes, it's a failure.