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Comments
Can't believe you are driving one today. I am fricken jealous. Of course we would all like to hear your review, please include your feeling of the sport seats and lumbar for comfort.
Thanks
By the way, I forgot to include "LOL" (thanks bigpapaluke), and its derivatives:
ROF -- Rolling On Floor
LMAO -- Laughing My [non-permissible content removed] Off
and of course my all time favorite:
ROTFLMAO -- Rolling On The Floor Laughing My [non-permissible content removed] Off
Best Regards,
Shipo
Comfort is of high importance, so I will definitely give my evaluation on all the nooks and crannies of the seats and everything else. My caveat to my review is that I'm very picky when it comes to seats, as I'm 6'0 and 230+ lbs (give or take a couple since I haven't stepped on a scale in 3 years).
I'll make it a point to come into the office early tomorrow morning to write a review. I have it first on my "to-do" list.
Did someone actually post ROTFLMAO or am I unwittingly playing right into ridiculousness?
So I don't get chastised:
Can't wait to drive the 2006 330i!
Realizing that I can lease a 2005 545 for only a little more per month than a 2006 330i has me literally ROTFLMAO.
Alright call me a hypocrite. I deserve it.
I'll swing by Friday to try them out but I'm rather disappointed.
It may be BMW's way to collect names of people with a "high level of desperation" to buy the car.
Post #3091 -- kominsky
Post #3094 -- brave1heart
Post #3098 -- kominsky
Post #3962 -- yeeeha
Post #8190 -- errickson
Post #10217 -- shipo
Post #10230 -- shipo
Post #10241 -- shipo
Post #13208 -- kominsky
Post #27335 -- shipo
Best Regards,
Shipo
My salesguy is off tomorrow and thursday, so I'm still gonna go drive it Friday.
Thanks.
hpowders
Dealer is telling me July on my wife's car.
They did say the demos were in, but as Veruca Salt said in Willie Wonka..."I want it NOW!"
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1) For the E46, even the highly respected folks at Dinan were unable to improve the power output for any of the four engines offered during its run. They were able to reprogram the throttle response, they were able to bump the engine red line and eliminate the 128 mph top speed limiter, but through it all, the engine still produced the same power.
2) The largest difference between the two mills is the intake setup. The 255hp version has a three stage intake setup; the lesser motor has just two. Given that the single most significant reason why the new top end 3.0 liter mill is able to produce more power when compared to its similar displacement ancestor is the induction system, I'm thinking that to bump a 325i to a 330i level of output one will be faced with a fairly involved upgrade of the entire induction system. $$$
Then there are the brakes and other upgraded components that the 330i gets over the 325i. By the time you add it all up, the 330i is probably going to be something of a bargain.
Best Regards,
Shipo
I myself posted the same remarks about the Bay Area last week and have not heard back from anyone. I live in South Bay and am scheduling a time to drive the 330i at the Seaside dealership in Monterey area. Either thursday or Friday. I am scheduled to attend the 3 across america tour on friday in S.F. but if the dealerships have cars available to look at I will pass. They had 2 cars delivered today, a 325i and 330i, don't know what options are on it yet.
I will start with these guys for negotiating and move up north to San Jose or Fremont up to the city to find the deal I am looking for.
Let's keep in touch re: dealerships and pricing info.
btw, where are you located?
Thanks
Let me just say that while it wasn't a necessity, I'm glad BMW has finally decided to do the in-dash changer for CDs rather than in the trunk of the car or in the case of MB C class, the glove box. If you're going to spend the money on a premium car, might as well have the same standard configuartion as other cars in its class. My additional 2 cents, which puts me up to 4 this morning.
I noticed the mention of the in-dash 6 disc CD changer for Logic 7 on the Smarter section on BMWUSA also. I so hope it's true, but I somehow have a feeling it's just a typo... :confuse:
A quick perusal of the BMW web site has yielded another difference between the E90 325i and the 330i, the manual transmissions.
For the 325i, you get a Getrag I 6-Speed Manual, for the 330i, you get the more robust Getrag H 6-Speed manual. I'm thinking that if you were to somehow manage to bump the power of the 325i up to the levels of the 330i, you might find that the tranny will not be up to the job of dealing with the extra torque.
Best Regards,
Shipo
I am considering a new 3-series model (325 probably) and would appreciate if someone could answer a couple of questions: how much difference does AWD make compare to RWD - is it worth the wait, since the AWD is supposed to be available in September? What's been the experience with iDrive? Thank you.
First impressions:
The thing is small. I'm short (5' 7") and I'm almost hitting the ceiling when sitting in the back. Back seat space is important for me at this point since I'm going to be sticking a car seat in there in a few months. Back seats are rather hard, as hard as those in Audis.
The interior is a bit nicer than it looks in pictures, it still felt "generic" to me ( I liked the old dash better). The plastics look somewhat cheap but I found the simple design to be OK, nothing to write home about but OK.
I'm sure it is but it doesn't feel any bigger than the old one and the short tail makes for a pretty small trunk (it looks like it's at best 2 times the size of my Z4's trunk).
My girl's first comment was "no offense but that tail looks like a Honda". It does! It's not too bad to look at but I wouldn't qualify it as beautiful.
Now for the gizmos: the start button and key are cool and I liked the aux input ... it might help put that expensive ipod to actual use
It was getting late and I chose not to do a 5 minute test drive but rather insisted that I'd be back for a proper test this week-end. I will go back to drive it but my guess at this point is that it might not be an option for us anymore, just based on size. A decent lease rate might change our mind though
Bottom line: why the heck do we need to choose between exquisite mechanical engineering and decent looks these days? It shouldn't be too hard to put both of them together in one package!
In the E46, you had two engines (not counting the M3) that were of different displacement, and basically in the highest state of tune they could be mass produced with. With the E90, OTOH, the 325i has the same engine with the same displacement. Unless I'm missing something, the only difference between them is the airflow into the engine, and the ECU mapping to take advantage of the 330i's superior breathing.
The 330i has 40 more peak HP, but it appears 350 revs higher in the power band. Also, this power advantage is saddled by an extra 132 pounds of curb weight, and the added unsprung weight and rotational mass of the larger/heavier wheels/tires. Based on these numbers alone, I'd guess that the 325i is an even match for the 330i up until about 6000 RPM, and then simply loses it's breath a little sooner. But even with this state of tune, I bet the 325i is less than 1/2 sec slower than the 330i in the 1/4 mile.
I predict that a more efficient, bolt-on intake and a remapped ECU for the 325i will likely come to market rather soon, and will probably cost, say $300 for the intake and $700 for the reflash. I think a 20 - 25 HP peak gain is realistic, and thanks to the 325i's lighter weight, should make the 325i an even match for the 330i in straight-line acceleration - and I don't think another 20 or 25 HP will put undue stress on the 325i's perfectly fine Getrag transmission.
I think the 325i comes standard with every option I care about (and then some), so I'm more inclined to spend $1000 to save $6000. I'll be watching the BMW aftermarket very closely over the next 12 months, and I'll make up my mind next year when my TSX lease is up.
I thank you for these posts! In addition to smiling at their fine irony, they have made me eventually ROTFLMAO. [Shall I say PDR ('partirme de risa' to break my spine out of laughing)?]
Honestly, I also thank Edmunds and all of you for these forums and your effort to keep them informative and readable. There is not so easy to found similars. :shades:
José
Just catching up on the last few days of posts...
The new key fob contains a small conventional key that pops out of the back of it, and the driver's door, the trunk and the glove box all still have conventional locksets.
j.
However, I'll be leasing, so the bigger problem is the difference in residual value. Running identical leases for the two cars (36/36K) yields a lease payment difference of $83/mo, or $1K/year. So, choosing the 330i will essentially mean paying 100% of this $3K price difference out of pocket over the 3yr lease (rather than just paying the 40% depreciation on this amount).
Interesting how the numbers work out... Seems to indicate that BMW expects the 330i to be worth no more than a 325i after 3 years of similar use.
j.
Per our discussion yesterday, here is an assessment of my test drive of the new 3 series. I'll try to keep this as objective as I possibly can, but you may see some bias opinions in here based on my own preference.
The exterior
The pictures on-line do not do the car justice. The exterior is attractive, athletic, slightly edgy but without making it look futuristic. Personally, I am a fan of BMW's redesign on both the 7 and 5 series, so I am glad the 3 has finally made the jump with the family.
You can see the distinguished lines running from the back of the trunk, to right underneath the window, leading up to the hood. Very tasteful. There is another line running in the middle of the car at the door handle level that adds more width to the car.
The standard wheels on the 330i are ok (not my favorite). The 330i with the Sports Package looks 10 times better and enhances the looks of the car.
They had four colors on their lot: Arctic Metallic, Jet Black, Titanium Silver, and Sparkling Graphite. Arctic is much lighter in person than on the website. I’d say it’s similar to steel blue, but much lighter. The Titanium looks sharp but I have a feeling everyone and their dog is going to want that color. Jet Black is handsome, but I felt it muted some of the car’s lines. Sparkling Graphite is very sharp. It’s as if they took the Silver Grey from last year’s model and took out some of the purple hue.
Rating: 5 out of 5
The interior aesthetics and size
First, none of the launch cars they had on the lot had O-be-1 I-drive installed. So each one had the flat dash in the center, which after sitting in it, I'm glad it wasn't there. It would be too distracting, and I for one prefer simplicity (K.I.S - Keep It Simple).
The steering wheel changes between the Sport Package versus without. The steering wheel without it is nice, with a solid grip to it. With the Sport Package, the steering wheel is a shade thicker and smidge smaller, giving it a more driving friendly feel.
I may offend some people by saying this, but the wood finish looks and feels cheap. If I only had to choose between the two wood finishes, I would choose the Poplar wood for the black interior, and the Burl Walnut for the beige. With that said, if I were to build the car today, I would go with the brushed aluminum trim with a black interior, only because I would rather the aluminum finish rather than wood veneer (learned my lesson with my MDX).
If there is more room in the new 3-series, it's nominal. I'm 6'0 with a broad frame, so the back seat felt the same to me as the E46. Now if the person in front of you is nice enough to not recline their seat a great deal, then you'll have plenty of legroom.
The front seat spacing is good overall. My salesman isn't large like me, so we were both comfortable in the front with a decent amount of shoulder width between us.
The trunk spaces looks bigger because of volume, not because of square footage. It does appear you can fit more in the trunk than the previous model.
Rating: 4 out 5
The interior functionality
Well, I was wrong yesterday. No 6-disc in-dash changer. So I think that was a typo. But since that was my only huge complaint, I think I can go on living if I bought the car today.
All the functions on the steering wheel were easy to figure out, except I am a little confused why they put an air circulation button on the wheel. Guess BMW received some feedback that consumers don't want strong pollutants in their vehicle. I digress . . .
Stereo is real easy to use, and the sound quality is awesome. Full sounding stereo system that doesn't struggle when you turn up the volume.
Cruise Control feature took a couple of tries to understand, but once you figure it out, it's pretty simple. I do like when you set cruise control, a white dot on the speedometer travels up to the speed you locked it at. Just something small that I thought was neat.
The windshield wipers were also not very intuitive and took a couple of tries to figure out. In previous cars I have owned, when you click the lever up for wipers, it stays locked until you move it back down. In this case you're tapping it to the setting you want. Also took some time to get used to.
The front display is really easy to operate and toggle through. No complaints here.
Both vehicles were equipped with the premium package, so they both had electronic adjustable seating. The seats without the sport package were comfortable. However, the seats with the sport package were extraordinary. The side bolsters do make a difference. Since I've never owned a BMW, I personally got a kick out of how many different ways you can configure your seat, to include adjustable side bolsters and thigh support on the sport seats. When sitting in the sport seats, I feel cozy, supported, and ready to drive. To me, it's worth the extra money to pick up the sports seats because of the steering wheel, the seats, and the wheels.
The start / stop button was pretty slick too. Stick in your key thingy, press and hold in the brake peddle (still trying to figure that one out), then press the button. To stop the car, put it in park, press and hold the button until it shuts off, and press in the key to unlock it from its position.
Rating: 4.5 out of 5
Let me preface this section by saying I am a manual snob, so you will see some bias here.
I test drove two vehicles: 330i with ZPP and an automatic and the 330i with ZSP, ZPP, and a manual. The only reason why I test drove the automatic is because the dealership was still prepping the other vehicle and I needed to do something to bide my time.
255 hP feels like an understatement. It's a really strong car gentlemen. The acceleration was incredible, but the handling was phenomenal. We took 35 mph turns at 60 and it didn't flinch. Very tight steering.
I did notice the DTC was activated a couple of times when I was at a complete stop and peeling into a turn. The only reason why I noticed was because my display was telling me it was one, otherwise, I didn't feel it.
The automatic was strong, but did not produce the same kind of wow as the manual. I felt that there was a couple of times where I might have felt a tip lag issue, but not nearly as obvious as the A4's issue on an auto. The steptronic shifting was OK, but for me personally, didn't produce the same effect.
As for the manual . . . . well . . . .let me say it's hard to have a poker face with the salesmen when you're drooling on the car. Daddy likey! I digress . . . the manual with the sport package was even tighter that the car without. The cornering was more crisp and fluid.
The braking was really strong. I took it up to 60 a couple of times and slammed on the brakes. The car stayed in a straight line, maybe slightly (and I mean slightly) veering once or twice.
Rating: 6 out of 5
Overall, this car lives up to the hype. If I were ready to make the purchase today, I would have bought the car without hesitation. For those of you who pre-ordered the vehicle, you won’t regret your purchase. I’ll be envious of those that can get one now. Edmunds is right – they hit this one right out of the park.
/me goes back to drooling over the car.
I spoke with my dealer this a.m., and although theyhave the demos, they are not letting people drive them, yet. Perhaps in a day or two I can go over.
He did indicate that BMW was "holding up" the release. I asked for clarifiacation, and he said he'd let me know. When I know y'all will know.
Regards,
chillnyc
The 330i has 40 more peak HP, but it appears 350 revs higher in the power band.
In reality, the 330i is producing 18.3 more horsepower than the 325i as low as 1,250 RPMs, which equates to 47% more power at that low RPM. As for the all important torque number, again at 1,250 RPMs, the 330i produces 35.4 more lb-ft of torque or 22% more. As the RPMs rise, the gap widens (although the overall percentage decreases for obvious reasons) all of the way to the peak numbers. By the way, even though the horsepower peaks 350 RPMs higher in the 330i, if you were to redline both engines to the HP peak of the 325i (which is 6,250 RPMs), you would still find that the 330i was producing some 35 HP greater than the 325i (not to mention about 31 lb-ft more of torque).
But even with this state of tune, I bet the 325i is less than 1/2 sec slower than the 330i in the 1/4 mile.
Ummm, well since BMW’s own numbers suggest that the 0-60 differences are more like 0.6 seconds, I’m betting that the quarter mile numbers will be significantly greater than that.
I predict that a more efficient, bolt-on intake and a remapped ECU for the 325i will likely come to market rather soon, and will probably cost, say $300 for the intake and $700 for the reflash.
Okay, I might buy the $700 for the reflash, however, $300 for a new manifold? Good luck. The cheapest BMW I6 intake manifold I’ve ever seen is $1,200, and that was a single runner intake for the old 2.8 liter mill in the early E46s. The intake for the 330i is a three stage manifold, which I’m betting will be cost prohibitive (as in we’ll never see it on the market) to develop for the aftermarket, and even if someone did, we’re probably talking well over $2,000 on the open market.
As for the transmission, I concede that the Getrag I may be capable of dealing with the 330i’s power, but the last time I checked the Getrag web site, they were VERY specific about how much torque each transmission was capable of withstanding, so much so that each transmission model is differentiated from the next by as few as 30 nm of torque. If you intend to race a 325i that you’ve somehow goosed to 330i levels of power output, I suspect that you’re going to find yourself buying a new transmission in the not too distant future.
In the end, I still think that the 330i is the much better bargain.
Best Regards,
Shipo
And not because of any BMW conspiracy.. Just because the numbers they quote are identical to the 2.5 litre numbers for the Euro model 325i.. Really, what are the chances that two engines of different displacements from the same manufacturer would have the identical torque and horsepower stats?
I think the whole CARB thing caught BMW by surprise, and the cheapest, best way to fix the problem was to substitute the de-tuned 3.0 litre engine... To justify the spread in price, they decided to quote the same numbers as the 2.5 litre. (Okay, maybe it is a conspiracy... :surprise: )
Just my daily rantings...
kyfdx
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I stopped by the dealership yesterday and their 2 cars were in the back lot, so I started walking around looking for them. I could only examine them from the outside (they were locked and not ready for a test-drive).
Honestly, I almost missed them as I approached them from the rear-- sadly, I mistook them for a Nissan Sentra (anyone else notice the trunklid similarities?). I could only view them from the outside and I was actually a bit disappointed... it must just be my perception, but the new designs appear to be less substantial to me (by that I mean that the sheet metal looks tinny) and a bit less stout.
The cars were both optioned with all of the stuff I wouldn't want: Step, Premium and sunroof. That being said, they were sitting next to an E46 330Ci ZHP and they didn't appear to be larger (which is a good thing to me).
The interior looked better than I expected (though the increase in interior volume is not apparent to me). Plastics appeared to be of a higher grade than that used in the X3 and Z4.
I'll have to find a different dealership for the testdrive as this one said that they won't be getting an E90 with stick, unless it's special-ordered (sad, truly sad).
Jon330cic, I agree with your logic. Since the 330i comes standard with equipment that you would have to buy on the 325i, it makes sense to spend more for the 330i if you want those items. $3,000 is not enough savings to pass up on the extra 40 HP.
"the 330i is producing 18.3 more horsepower than the 325i as low as 1,250 RPMs, which equates to 47% more power at that low RPM. As for the all important torque number, again at 1,250 RPMs, the 330i produces 35.4 more lb-ft of torque or 22% more. As the RPMs rise, the gap widens."
Shipo, I haven't seen the HP and torque curves for the two engines, so I can only assume your numbers are accurate. I still believe that the "dumbing down" of the 325i can be substantially reversed with little cost or effort. I don't know how much a new manifold would cost for the 325i, but G35 owners only pay about $350 for theirs:
http://www.kinetixracing.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=9&HS=1
I'm not an expert, but given BMW's purposeful downgrade of the 325i's manifold, I suspect that it would be a fine candidate for this type of modification. Let's hope Turner or Dinan make one, and keep the price within reason.
No stick unless special-ordered??? GRRRRRRR!! That, to me, is ridiculous. I'm glad that BMW didn't follow Audi's lead in only making Auto's in their higher end A4; however, a dealership that doesn't have a single one in stock and won't get one unless it's ordered by the customer is just preposterous. BMW is the benchmark for driving machines and how one feels connected to the road when in one, especially in its true form: a manual. In most commercials with BMW's, you see the driver operating a manual. In my opinion, that dealership is doing BMW a disservice by not diversifying their inventory to accommodate all the market.
I'm off my soap box now - game on . . .
Can't say I noticed the similarities between the trunk lids when compared to the Nissan. But someone's perception is their realty, so it may feel that way for you.
In my case, while the Premium Package is not on my absolute NEED list, it is very high on my WANT list. That being said, the difference between the two cars drops to only $3,300, making the 330i an even better deal. While we will need to wait for the inevitable 3.0 liter 3 vs 3.0 liter 3 comparison test that one of the car magazines will produce sooner or later, my bet is that the 330i will handily beat the 325i in both the straight line tests as well as the road course tests. Time will tell.
Best Regards,
Shipo
I definitely want to see one at least with the sport package, cause the two I saw had those small wheels (which made the arches look huge) and not-so-fun looking seats.
Errr, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the overall diameter of the standard tires is virtually identical to that of the SP tires. That in and of itself will not change the look of the car. Having said that, I believe that the SP equipped cars will have a lowered suspension (anywhere from 0.5" to 1.0"), and that will have an effect on the look of the wheels inside their wells.
Best Regards,
Shipo
If you've ever seen 19" aftermarket wheels on a 3-series that hasn't also been lowered, you'll know what I mean...
I agree... the 330i, typically and comparably equipped is a good deal.... I didn't mean to argue that the 325i will be "nearly" as powerful as the 330i.. Just that I think it's numbers will be different from the 2.5 litre model in Europe (even though the figures don't say it).
regards,
kyfdx
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Also, what's the difference in the satellite radio options that the manufacturer offers vs what's listen on the accessories page. Anyone? Anyone?
In my case, I won't miss the xenons, leather or premium stereo. I'd get a 6-speed 325i with no options for $30,995. Then I would add an Eibach Pro-Kit suspension for $800 and lightweight 17" wheels/max performance summer tires for $1200.
Then I'll sell my OEM wheels/tires on e-bay and get a Turner chip with the proceeds.
330i SP acceleration and even sharper handling for $33,000.
But (big but, I'm wrong a lot), I think with the sound package, you get a glovebox CD changer along with the logic 7 sound system..
Unless I've confused myself with the new 5-series...
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My trunk has the potential for two suitcases, but I can only fit one with the CD changer. I have had wiring problems related to my CD changer because the wires got mixed up with some of my cargo. Many times groceries had to be put on my kids knees due to the lack of space.
BMW certainly has the resources to improve on this one minor headache related to their cd units. I will not spend my resources on a optional premium sound system in order to solve a a problem that the Japanese /Americans and the Koreans resolved a decade ago. Sounds nutty to reject a fantastic car based on this reasoning(but living 7 years with such a cd unit has made this reasoning possible)
Do ED and save another 4-5k. Just a thought. That'd make paying for the upgrades crazy easy.