VW Passat TDI

venus537

how are the batteries depleted once you leave the city?

ALL cars make the use aluminum and it's becoming more and more common with newer designs.

i can't see how the civic hybrid and the new prius wouldn't be able to keep up with traffic because they certainly have the necessary power. and the upcoming accord v6 and camry hybrids will actually have their power enhanced.

i don't know if hybrids are the answer. you may have a point with the rare metals and materials needed (and disposal of) for hybrids. there seems to be a big enough problem in this area with "normal" cars as it is.

i do hope diesel cars like the jetta and passat catch on. and that diesel fuel can eventually be refined like it is in europe in order to obtain lower omissions and better performance.

dudleyr

If you took a hybrid, and the exact same car minus all of the electric motor weight,and battery weight, then you would have a vehicle that gets better mileage on the highway, and does better going up long hills. The 1,800 lb Insight has nearly 200 lbs of extra stuff for the hybrid engine. That is quite a large percentage.

The reason we have hybids is that people have to see a certain number for horsepower before they will consider a car. Say it has 80 hp, and nobody will buy it - even if it has a ton of torque and is very light. I had a Scirocco that had 76 hp, but it was plenty fast, and got 45 mpg if driven gently. Helped by a 2,000 lb weight. That was nearly 25 years ago. How far have we come in that time? Not very - we just keep going for more hp, and more weight, so we are staying in place as far as mpg goes.

I also don't get the V-6 Accord hybrid. Will it get better mileage than the 5-speed 4-cylinder? If not what is the point?

I agree about the material in the batteries, but I do not have a problem with aluminum as it is highly recyclable.

venus537

I also don't get the V-6 Accord hybrid. Will it get better mileage than the 5-speed 4-cylinder? If not what is the point?.

the point is that your getting 270 hp with the fuel economy of a i4 160 hp engine.

dudleyr

But you are not always getting 270 hp, and your highway mileage is not helped by the hybrid technology.

The people looking for max economy will pass because it is only mediocre, and the hp people will pass because it only lasts for a few seconds, and will peter out up a long hill.

Kirstie_H

This is a really great line of discussion, but can we move over to one of the hybrid discussions instead of the Diesel Passat? This is a new take on hybrids that we haven't really discussed before, but I'd like to leave this topic for conversation about a potential diesel Passat. Thanks!
Try one of these:
Luxury/SUV hybrids
Hybrid Honda Accord 2005
Is it time to buy a hybrid? Are they up to the chore?

Kirstie_H

Hybrid vs Diesel

dieselbreath

I'll reply in the Diesel vs. Hybrids forum linked to by our gracious host.

moparbad

Checked out a Passat TDI Sedan last night. Beautiful car. I only have praise for this vehicle.

preferdiesels

I traded my 2002 Beetle TDI for a Passat TDI last Saturday (24th). It is the GLS with leather/wood, etc. Listed for about 28300. They gave me a "customer loyalty discount of $1500 (it's my 4th VW since 1998), knocked off the dealer add-on fluff, and gave me book trade-in value for my Beetle which had 48000 miles on it. So I got a pretty good deal considering the limited supply right now. It has good power, and so far I am pleased with it. Don't know yet what the mileage will be. After the first tank I will post it.

todd53

Just bought a new Passat GLS TDI sedan yesterday. It's truly a remarkable vehicle. One question remains, which I've been unable to find an adequate answer to: the VW sales person told me that the Passat TDI's engine coils automatically heat up when the driver's door is opened, thus enabling the engine to be started immediately without pausing at the ignition "on" position for the coils to heat up. Great, I thought, but I later noticed that when the ignition is turned to the "on" position, there is a coil light on the dash that illuminates briefly and then turns off. Does anyone know whether I need to wait until the light goes off before cranking the engine, or whether I can just insert key and turn to crank immediately? Thanks.

moparbad

Salesperson is mis-informed. Door has nothing to do with glow plugs. Wait until the light is out prior to cranking the engine.

Kirstie_H

Hi preferdiesels - that'd be great if we could get some "real world" mileage from an owner!

preferdiesels

It will take a week or more, because I'm not able to put many miles on it right now. But whenever the tank is about 3/4 empty I'll fill it up and post a report.

f111d

The Common rail design I've been reading about for several years on Dieselforum.org.
I've been reading the torque numbers in previous posts and they seem lower than some or the common rail. Of course most have been 2.7 2.8 v-6s. I like the idea of 300 + ftlbs @1900. Trying to understand the point (displacement size) with this design where they seem to be able to kick the turbo to get this 324ft lbs and 369 ftlbs on the 2.8.
Tnx
Paul

moparbad

TDI in Passat and O4 Jetta, Golf, New Beetle are all unit injector. Different than common rail. Both common rail and unit injector are modern diesel tech., just different approaches.

todd53

Anyone experiencing a semi-rough idle upon cold start-up in the new Passat TDI? I know that diesels are not supposed to be super smooth, but this does not seem normal. The tachometer flutters along with the idle going up and down for about 10 seconds after cold start-up. It does not do this if the engine is already warm. Also, there is a "crunch" noise coming from underneath the car when you first depress the gas pedal in drive after starting it up. I think this sound may just be the ABS calibrating, but I'm not sure. Otherwise, the car drives beautifully. Please adivise.

rickrover

Finally made it in to test a TDI Passat. What a great car - quiet at idle and underway, incredable low end torque, I was very impressed.

dudleyr

What kind of MPG did the computer estimate during the test drive? What kind of rpms was it turning on the highway?

rickrover

I didn't check the computer - It was somewhere around 3,000 RPM at 70. It's very responsive from a standstill and at highway speeds.

I have an 03 Jetta diesel wagon with an automatic. My Jetta gets exactly the fuel mileage that's on the sticker 35/45. I average just under 40 mpg in everyday driving. I'd expect the Passat diesel to do as well if not better than it's EPA estimate.

The most impressive aspects of the test drive was the way it pulls away from a standstill and how quiet it is. Just a little tap on the gas and it takes off like it has a big V8 under the hood. My Jetta with the old non PD diesel has the typical diesel clatter - not at all obtrusive and easy to live with. The Passat diesel is nearly silent in comparison.

donein05

Just wondering if anyone has any new information as to when TDI 4motion wagons might show up in the US. If not MY2004, when can we expect the 2005's, if they are even to offer this combo before the new body style shows up?

i've been reading these posts for several months now and have appreciated the info...my wife's hand-me-down chevy celebrity wagon isn't going to last too much longer!

moparbad

There is no info. on 4Motion TDI for North America. There is usually some info. 2 years or more in advance of an intro. here in North America. Examples are PD engine and Passat that were known as early as 2002. There are some surprises, the R32 was not planned for North America and it arrived on short notice.
Good news is that front wheel drive and ESP make 4Motion unnecessary for most situations, though some people have need for 4Mo.

bamacar

Any rumor of a manual transmission on the Passat TDI in the future?

moparbad

2006 for Passat TDI, maybe in 2005.

dudleyr

Very good news on manual tranny. Won't the 2006 be the B6? I think the more TDI's are sold, the more likely the manual will be made available. So snap up those TDI's auto tranny people! : ^ )

ralphing1

On Wednesday, 5/5/2004 I picked up my 2004 Passat GLS Wagon, auto, TDI. According to the dealer's print out, it was the first TDI Wagon in Iowa and so, of course, the first one sold in IA. They are sending them in loaded and in a limited number of colors. Mine is Reflex Silver/ Anthracite Leather, Electronic Stabilization (ESP) $28,315 MSRP including Destination. I traded a 2002 Toyota Tacoma Prerunner QuadCab pickup. The Passat TDI Wagon is beautiful vehicle with a driver's seat to die for. Engine is quiet. EPA fuel economy on the sticker is 27 - 38. My first trip - 127 miles delivered 38.7 mpg. Have over 500 miles on current tank. Computer says I'm getting 41 average. It has tremendous torque, I have not found a hill it downshifts on, it just pulls them - the tach never drops nor does the speedometer. Handles nimbly and ride is very good. Road noise is on average 70 db "A" weighted scale. This is quieter than a Honda CR-V, about the same as a Subaru Forester and my Toyota Tacoma. When driving along at neutral throttle - not accelerating or slowing down - there is a slight jerky-ness occasionally - slight but there. Otherwise smooth as silk. I had a magnificent buying experience from Jordan Motors, Des Moines, IA. They negated my fears of horrible VW dealers I have read about in various forums. I'm a happy diesel driver!! I'll keep you posted.

dudleyr

Excellent mileage for the first tank. Should only get better.

gagrice

Thank you for an informative posting. I will watch for future impressions on what sounds like a fine vehicle. I wish I test drive one. Here in California that is not likely.

nova

I am surprised that they did not call your car a 2005 this late in the year. Does your new wagon have the 137 hp motor in it? GOOD LUCK with your new car

sebring95

They negated my fears of horrible VW dealers I have read about in various forums.

I would hold off on the negating until you've vistited their service department. There are some good ones, I'll give you but don't just trust them with your children because they're good on the sales end. They tend to throw parts at diesels which isn't a big deal when it's on their dime, but you don't want that type of service when you're footing the bill.

horsejd

Does anyone have first hand information whether the Passat Wagon TDI 4Motion is currently being offered for sale in the U.S.? I am confused because VW web site lists 4Motion as an option on the Wagon GLS TDI. KBB has prices for Wagon GLS TDI but no mention of 4Motion as an available option. Edmunds does not have prices for Wagon TDI (GL or GLS version). I have not asked the local dealers yet because I thought I would start here with the experts. Thanks.

bamacar

See messages 272-273. Appears no known plans for TDI version of the 4Motion.

todd53

ralphing1:

Congrats on your new TDI wagon. I recently bought a GLS TDI sedan (shadow blue/anthracite leather). Does yours idle a little rough at cold start-up? Mine does this briefly, and of course my dealer says it's normal, but I just want to get some feedback from another owner. Please advise. Thanks.

dl7265

I've read the petrol car's have had a $2000.00 incentive, with buyers getting that UNDER invoice pricing. If this is not applicable on the TDI ,is 300-500 over invoice a normal range for this vehicle ?
Regards,
DL

rickrover

I think VW has $1,000 owner loyalty discount running, getting another $1,000 off sticker shouldn't be that hard.

preferdiesels

BAD NEWS!!! I finally got through most of a tank of fuel in my new Passat TDI. After mostly in-town, heavy stop-n-go traffic and maybe 25%highway miles I filled up with 391.5 miles on the trip odometer and put 14.7 gallons in the tank. If my math is correct that is a very poor 26.63 miles per gallon.
I will reserve judgement, but I am not optimistic right now.

sebring95

First off, do you know the tank was filled all the way to begin with? Dealers notoriously only put enough fuel in the tank to get the guage on "F". Even if they pulled the nozzle on the first shut-off, you can usually get another good gallon or so in the tank. That alone would put you over 28mpg. Between heavy city driving, a very green motor, and unknown levels between fill-ups I wouldn't get too bent out of shape.

Considering my V6 Camrys would barely get 24mpg in a 80%/20% highway/city, that doesn't seem bad for a similarly sized car. The Passats are only rated at 38mpg highway aren't they?

dudleyr

26.63 mpg measured in heavy city driving. EPA is 27 for city driving. What is the surprise? What station wagon would do better in that situation?

lbradford

Looking for a Passat TDI as I am. Well you'll get no help from Edmunds, much to my surprise. And their response to my inquiry, was that it isn't available in 5 states, so they don't post info on it. I know Calif. and NY are big, but they don't rule the country. To say this is a huge disappointment is to put it mildly. If you want info you'll need to go to Kelly Blue Book, or VW etc ... I'm still galled by this.

preferdiesels

Yes, the tank was full. I filled it myself, and I always fill it to where I can see the fuel and it has stopped bubbling down. We'll see!

ruking1

Given a full tank; 1 what mileage were you expecting? 2. break in periods can vary widely 3 conditions can vary widely 4 drivers can vary widely.

ralphing1

I have a new Passat GLS Wagon, TDI automatic. First fill after 125 miles it got 38.6 varying speed on the interstate Second tank full, doing break in driving, varying speed and a mix of town, highway, and interstate, 477 miles, averaged 34.6. WIndow sticker EPA is 27 - 38.

ralphing1

It has the 2.0L TDI. It came with no specs. Nothing in the manual refers to the TDI engine or gives specs. I have written VW requesting TDI specs and info.

rickrover

My 03 Jetta TDI's mileage gets better and better with age. I've had my Jetta for a little over a year and 16,000 totally trouble free miles. Plus, over the months I've changed my driving style as I've gotten used to the TDI's driving dynamics - which has probably contributed to my increased MPG. My most recent tank returned 37.6 MPG in mostly city driving in my automatic Jetta TDI wagon.

ralphing1

Yes, it does idle a bit rough first start of the day, but not for long.
I ususally let it idel for a couple minutes to circulate transmission fluid and by the time I drive away it is smooth as silk.

sebring95

Fuel quality is most likely the cause of any rough start idling. The better the fuel the better it will start smoothly and smoke free. When possible I run BP/Amoco Supreme diesel and it starts extremely smooth, idles/runs quieter, and never smokes. It's hard to find good diesel.

todd53

ralphing1:

Thanks for your post regarding the idle. If you would be so be so kind, please post or e-mail (my e-mail is public) the outcome of your request for information and specs for the new TDI. Thanks again.

ruking1

I think the VW Passat TDI has Drive By Wire. I know the 2003 VW Jetta TDI does. One benefit is that when you "let up" on the throttle, it signals the computer and the computer shuts off the fuel flow. So for example, if you have just climbed a long grade and "coast" or let off the throttle, you will not use any fuel during this condition. This of course helps in greater mpg.

preferdiesels

It is a sedan, and I was expecting low 30's like "Ralphing1" says he is getting in his wagon. I think it will improve, and next month I will get a chance to test it on an "all highway" trip from Alabama to North Carolina and back. I will post those results in mid-June.

dudleyr

It may also take a little while to adjust to driving a diesel to get the best mileage. With all that torque it is quite a bit different than a gas engine. Keep us posted.

preferdiesels

I don't know if you were addressing me, but this is my forth TDI, (1) '98 New Beetle TDI 5sp, 2000 New Beetle TDI 5sp, '02 New Beetle TDI auto, and now '04 Passat TDI auto. Previous to those I have had mercedes diesels, GM diesels, Peogeot diesel, VW Rabbit diesel, Isusu diesel and probably others I have forgotten about. Thus my "handle".