don't know if you were addressing me, but this is my forth TDI, (1) '98 New Beetle TDI 5sp, 2000 New Beetle TDI 5sp, '02 New Beetle TDI auto, and now '04 Passat TDI auto. Previous to those I have had mercedes diesels, GM diesels, Peogeot diesel, VW Rabbit diesel, Isusu diesel and probably others I have forgotten about. Thus my "handle".
Well for sure with that much seat time in diesels you probably could give a class in "living with diesels" I am shooting for 550,000 -1M miles. I would appreciate any tips!
Every time the oil is changed, or if the vehicle has a "water-in-fuel" warning light whenever it lights up if it is before time for an oil change. In my previous post I referred to a "water" filter meaning fuel filter. The main benefit of the fuel filter in a diesel is to separate water from the fuel. Water in diesel fuel is a major hazard to the injection system. Some filter cannisters have a valve on the bottom to drain water from it.
Anyone: Is there anyway to change the blue dash lights? I have trouble focusing due to the lights of on-coming cars...really, this is an unsettling feeling driving the passat at night...I have yet to drive the diesel version, how much noisier in side is it over the 4 cylinder gas turbo?
I bought a Passat TDI yesterday and the dealer inserted a supplement in the back of the owner's manual that covers the engine, including glow plug operation and specs. I would expect most dealers should have it available.
I am possibly interested in a passat TDI sedan after hearing all the great reviews on this board.
However, I am confused as to what pricing is looking like in the mid-atlantic states because Edmunds is not giving any information with regards to incentives, TMV or anything like that.
Are there any incentives available on the Passat TDI aside from the Customer Loyalty Rebate? Are dealerships getting sticker for them minus any rebates, or is it realistic to get Invoice price on them minus the rebate?
I bought a Passat Wagon, GLS trim with Leather/Wood and ESP from Browns VW in Manassas. I did not qualify for the $1000 loyalty incentive, but was able to get $1000 under MSRP and they arranged 3.49% financing through a local bank. You can check out their pricing (they are one of the few dealers who post their internet price, in the DC area anyway) at brownscar.com. They also have a VW dealership in Richmond, though the Manassas dealer has been trying to keep TDI's in stock.
We have a 99 Passat GLS and a 02 Jetta WGN TDI. With gas prices hitting $3.00, our Passat really sucks down the gas. I used 600 in diesel fuel last year. The Passat used 1350 in 91 octane gas. Our cars both work fine, so we really dont need a new car. But Im tempted to get one latter this fall.
I feel a little better now! Just filled up my Passat TDI again at 442.1 miles and the tank held 14.07 gallons, so the mileage has improved by 5mpg to 31.42 MPG with about half and half city/highway driving. The car now has a little over 1000 miles on it. When cold (or hot) it starts on the first turn, idles smoothly, and runs quietly. No problems so far, and I don't expect any considering my 3 previous TDI's (all Beetles) never had any problems.
Get your diesel from high volume fairly new stations. I've done this and have never gotten water or any bad diesel. You will learn to spot diesel pumps real soon. There are many other brands other than Exxon & Texaco. You might want to carry some baby wipes if you are dressed up. Some stations let their pump handles get pretty dirty.
If you have automatic tranmission and you drive a lot in the city try to encourage your car to get into overdrive as soon as possible and this will help you get good mileage. You can do this right around the 40 mark. The amout of torque you have with a diesel allows you to do this, and while driving on highway trips you will stay in overdrive most of the time.
Are there fewer wagons in Canada or is it just that demand is higher? Due to dealer allocations, we're not expecting our TDI wagon to arrive until October or November as a 2005. Price is uncertain too, as Telematics are standard on the 2005 model which should boost the price. Our preferred dealer has sold a number of TDI sedans (but hasn't ridden in one, because customers were always waiting for delivery when the cars arrived). The one TDI wagon didn't even make it to the dealer .... customer went to the depot where they unload them from the trains and shot photos of his car getting un-wrapped! It seems all the Passat TDIs around Vancouver are "Built to order" and Passat TDI wagons are rarer than Phaetons or Porsche Cayennes. Maybe they're all getting shipped to the US? Any indications on production numbers, import numbers, etc. ????
Just filled my Passat with 526 miles on the trip computer (1,700 miles total) and it held 14.25 gallons, which translates to about 37 MPG. That tank was probably 70% highway, 30% around-town driving. And that's doing 75-80 mph on the highway. Not too shabby....
Does anyone know about the release schedule in Oregon? I have contacted two dealerships and the company, and am getting vauge answeres from everyone. It is allowed to be sold here, I checked. It looks like most people here got it on the East Coast. Also, how do you wiggle a dealer on the price, when you are basically standing at the showroom with your nose pressed against the glass waiting for the arrival?
With high-demand vehicles, there's usually little to zero room for negotiation. If you don't want to pay sticker on a high-demand vehicle, dealers know that someone else will, and soon.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
I'm envious, but I think mine is improving. Last tank got over 31 and right now the trip odo has about 300 miles on it with the fuel guage showing 1/2 tank. I'll fill it up in a couple of days and see how much it improved. I always fill mine until I can see the fuel level rather than stopping when the pump shuts off. That way I know it had as much fuel as it would hold each time and the same amount in the tank.
It takes a long time before these engines are completely broke in. Mileage typically is on the upward trend for at least the first 10,000 miles and full compression in the engine is not achieved until 40,000 to 60,000 miles.
...but when the US switches to the low-sulfur fuel in 2006, will there be any issues with the "new" diesel fuel and the current VW motor?
Also, what kind of long term maintenance costs should I be aware of with the 134hp 2.0 TDI in the Passat? (ie is there some amazingly expensive 50,000 mile maintenance required or something to that effect?)
ULSD should do nothing but improve the TDI engine. These are essentially the same motor europe uses and they're typically gagged for power for emissions high sulphur issue we have here. My 90hp Jetta TDI in stock form is the same as a 110hp motor used in europe. I believe the Passat 2.0L TDI put out around 150hp in Europe. This is one reason it's so easy to mod these motors for power. Throw in the european injector nozzles ($200) and you can gain 20hp alone.
Maintenance costs are directly related to your dealer. Dropping off a VW at the dealer and telling them to give you the "50k mile service" may result in a coronary embolism when you return. Following the owners manual won't result in much maintenance cost until around 100k miles when the timing belt is due for replacement. On my Jetta this can vary from $250 at a private shop using VW parts to $650 at a VW dealership.
No issues with the 2006 standard fuel. It will be cleaner burning and higher cetane I am told. The VW engines can run the new fuel now with no adjustments. The down side is; I am sure it will cost more per gal.
If the Passat TDI is anything like the Jetta TDI, outside of sticky one of a kind problems, or abnormal wear problems or patterns, your first real killer is the timing belt change (250-650). at 100,000 (90-120k range) Because of the "self destruct" design it is probably a good idea to change the water pump at this time. (1/2 hr extra labor and 50-70 dollars parts. If done before or after the timing belt you can expect a min of 2-6 hrs labor or 250 plus parts) Since it would save on the labor should you have to do it at separate times and the labor is almost the same both dollar and time wise. Procedurally if you do not change the water pump at this time you are in effect asking it to go to the next timing belt change which by that time the water pump can see up to 240,000 miles. Without the "self destruct design" changing the water pump separately when it is close to failing would be the best.
Always just get the "manufacturer's" maintenance done. Just was wondering if there was a particular maintenance issue that came up with the diesel motor versus a regular gas motor.
Did you guys know that the European version of the Passat TDI has a 16 valve 2 liter engine, not 8 valves. We're missing out on some refinement. I test drove the Passat TDI yesterday and it is a sweet car. I would rather buy the old body style (versus 2006) because VW will surely have some recalls and problems with all the new parts.
I filled up my Passat TDI yesterday thinking I would see a big improvement, but NOT. It went up 1 MPG to 32 MPG from the last tank. I was fooled by the fuel guage which only went down to 1/2 tank in the first 300 miles but went another 1/4 in the next 100 miles. Maybe it will continue to improve.
The consensus is that the real difference between USA and Euro versions is emissions related. For example, the USA's 90 hp/155 #ft of torque is Euro's 100 hp/ 172 # ft of torque. On this TDI the difference is achieved by smaller/bigger injectors.
Also unseen in comparison is the Euro versions have a 1 year/12000 mile warranty vs USA's 4 year/50,000 miles.
The Passat TDI in not 90HP nor is it 100HP. What refinement does the 2.0L Passat TDI North America lack? Yes, the NA TDI's are tuned differently to achieve emissions. Please explain what is crappy about the current 2.0L TDI in the 2004-2005 Passat?
"The Passat TDI in not 90HP nor is it 100HP. What refinement does the 2.0L Passat TDI North America lack? Yes, the NA TDI's are tuned differently to achieve emissions. Please explain what is crappy about the current 2.0L TDI in the 2004-2005 Passat? "
The example I was using was the 1.9 TDI, perhaps while that was clear from the example, I should have said it was also from the VW Jetta TDI.
Why the 2.0 TDI is crappy in the 2004-2005, is/was not my assertion at all.!
In my own case, I would study and research to assertain, verify, longevity, reliability durability issues etc etc.
So for example, what I have garnered from the TDI PD is:
1. a 505.01 spec oil is required
2. mileage figures are lower (46 vs 49) due to making the new engine less efficient for emissions purposes.
3. so far there is no longevity etc issues over the 2003 TDI.
My understanding is that the car has to have 7500 miles on it to be registered legally in CA. You won't get anyone to issue the necessary smog certification before that to allow a registration to take place.
Still looking for a professional review of the new Passat TDI. I paid list for my car two days ago. The dealer received only three vehicles and all were sold right off. Don't much like the automatic shift or the higher level of noise compared to my old '93 ES300 Lexus with five speed manual. But the car is well finished, tight, and on my first highway trip I had trouble keeping the car below 80. I now have over 300 miles on it and the tank still shows over half full. In 1978 I was first on my block to have a diesel as the now forgotten and soon-to-be-remembered gas shortage began. Never stood in a gas line with my Oldsmobile, was always in the shop instead waiting for repairs. What damage GM did to itself with those rotten gas conversion engines. I suspect diesel's popularity will soon soar in the US as gasoline prices continue to climb. I look for my Passat to have low maintenance, high resale value, and when the 2006 restyled Passat arrives will gladly trade in my automatic for a manual. At least that's the plan. As far as handling is concerned, I too have experienced a mild and brief shudder from the engine when I take my foot off the accelerator doing 70 plus. Other than that the car seems very satisfactory. I'll get over my luxurious Lexus. Would love to see more input on this new model.
Sorry to be so slow in responding. Volkswagen customer service says the rough idle at start is normal. Dealer says same but hooked up to diagnostic computer and found no codes coming up. I think the poor diesel suggestion may be part of it. I buy from stations that move a lot of diesel so don't have old fuel. Will look for a truck stop with the BP Supreme.
I asked VW Customer service for a manual for the TDI. They sent me to some outfit that publishes and distributes VW manuals. All the place has is complete manuals, for $30 thank you, and they did not know if a TDI spec was in the manual or not. VW customer service then referred me back to my selling dealer. Dealer is working with their factory rep to try to get a 2.0L TDI spec sheet or manual. They are also watching the new TDI Passats to see when a TDI section is in a manual and will copy it and send to me and their other TDI owners. Dealer -10, VW - 0.
Now have 2,000 on my TDI Passat Wagon w/auto. Getting 30 - 34 mpg in mixed town & Hwy driving. On a run from St. Louis to Iowa City I got 37.
So far it is an amazingly pleasant and fun to drive machine. Well built and assembled. Handles predictably, rides great. Seat comfortable. Have leather seats. I think the cloth seats are more comfortable - softer under the fanny.
The only thing I do not like is the Monsoon stereo, which is a poor excuse for a premium stereo.
That's all for now. Thanks for listening. Ralphing1
Hi, I'm still waiting in the Portland/Vancouver area and was contacted by two dealers (same dealership) who told me I should expect to see a MSRP over $4000 what has been available in the rest of the U.S. due to demand. My response wouldn't be ladylike, so I will omit that. I will buy a plane ticket and drive the thing back if someone will put me in touch with a dealer in the Western U.S. who will stick to the MSRP for pete's sake. Any thoughts? P.S. Dick Hannah's Auto Mall, in case you were wondering.
...has been singularly unimpressive in my brief dealings with them. My best friend uses them for service, and I went with him to the dealership last time to specifically inquire about the Passat TDI. We might as well have been asking for a trip to Mars - these guys were clueless.
I too agree that talking to the locals in the Portland area is probably a waste of time. Get on the VW website and e-mail or call everybody in the Seattle area...see if you can get a more rational response up there. If I were serious about buying a car right now, that's the approach I would take.
Parenthetically, we moved to Vancouver WA from California last year - I would rate the Mercedes dealer in Portland on a par with, or slightly better than, our regular dealer in Sacramento. Otherwise, in terms of either competition or competence, I have to say I miss the car culture in Calif - these people up here have it too easy in terms of not having to scramble for business, and it shows in their practices and prices.
Is the emissions thing that lowers HP possibly the EGR setting? And if so, would that not be remedied by reprogramming with a Vag-com? Anyone know exactly what the differences are between US/Can & Europe?
I just test drove a Passat TDI here in the Tampa Bat area and was very impressed. Quiet, good acceleration after stop lights...I was disappointed on several fronts: 1) I was told VW is no longer building a wagon until the new models sometime in 2006, and 2) VW does not allow you to get the auto climate or bi-xenon headlights or other top line items with this car...what gives? Can anyone please shed some light on this for me? Appreciate it.
We have a '98 TDI Wagon (5-speed!!!!) here in Munich. I have to try hard NOT to get 38mpg mixed driving. I have the 66kw (96hp) version and it has plenty on power drives great and hauls #$% the autobahn 160kph (100mph) all day long.
If the 96hp can do all this why do I need 134hp?? Why not just re-chip to 96hp??
"I was told VW is no longer building a wagon until the new models sometime in 2006" ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I'd say he's applying the "FUD" sales technique. Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. In Europe the Passat wagon sells like hotcakes. It sits in the top 5 sellers every month, month in month out. This is noteworthy because the B5 is 7 years old now in and era of 5 year model changes that is remarkable. There is absolutely no reason to stop building it.
I would also say that getting a B6 in the USA in 2006 is unrealistic. Make a note of how long it is taking to get the Golf MkV into the states. The new Golf has been out here in Germany for a while and is almost old news (the BMW 1-series has people all hot and bothered) in the Golf class. The B6 will be release in Germany first and I would guess a year later in the states.
Personal option yes, you should continue to get it in the US. But keep in mind VW's past history on importing US spec Diesels which is inconstant at best.
"Is the emissions thing that lowers HP possibly the EGR setting? And if so, would that not be remedied by reprogramming with a Vag-com? Anyone know exactly what the differences are between US/Can & Europe? "
No.
A qualified yes in that the EGR mod is desirable to prevent long term soot build up in the intake manifold. It can be done in short order on a Vag.com.
While there are a few differences I am sure, the major difference is that the European models have bigger injectors per model. So like for example mine has .184 injectors stock. The Euro or "upgrade" here would be the .205 injectors.
Comments
Well for sure with that much seat time in diesels you probably could give a class in "living with diesels"
I got my Mity Vac! (and I know how to use it!
2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])
While VW does not recommend fuel additives, there is considerable debate as to which is better, either a emulsifier or deemulsifier.
However, I am confused as to what pricing is looking like in the mid-atlantic states because Edmunds is not giving any information with regards to incentives, TMV or anything like that.
Are there any incentives available on the Passat TDI aside from the Customer Loyalty Rebate? Are dealerships getting sticker for them minus any rebates, or is it realistic to get Invoice price on them minus the rebate?
Thanks for the help.
AS
Get your diesel from high volume fairly new stations. I've done this and have never gotten water or any bad diesel. You will learn to spot diesel pumps real soon. There are many other brands other than Exxon & Texaco. You might want to carry some baby wipes if you are dressed up. Some stations let their pump handles get pretty dirty.
If you have automatic tranmission and you drive a lot in the city try to encourage your car to get into overdrive as soon as possible and this will help you get good mileage. You can do this right around the 40 mark. The amout of torque you have with a diesel allows you to do this, and while driving on highway trips you will stay in overdrive most of the time.
Due to dealer allocations, we're not expecting our TDI wagon to arrive until October or November as a 2005. Price is uncertain too, as Telematics are standard on the 2005 model which should boost the price.
Our preferred dealer has sold a number of TDI sedans (but hasn't ridden in one, because customers were always waiting for delivery when the cars arrived).
The one TDI wagon didn't even make it to the dealer .... customer went to the depot where they unload them from the trains and shot photos of his car getting un-wrapped!
It seems all the Passat TDIs around Vancouver are "Built to order" and Passat TDI wagons are rarer than Phaetons or Porsche Cayennes.
Maybe they're all getting shipped to the US?
Any indications on production numbers, import numbers, etc. ????
I have contacted two dealerships and the company, and am getting vauge answeres from everyone. It is allowed to be sold here, I checked. It looks like most people here got it on the East Coast.
Also, how do you wiggle a dealer on the price, when you are basically standing at the showroom with your nose pressed against the glass waiting for the arrival?
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
Also, what kind of long term maintenance costs should I be aware of with the 134hp 2.0 TDI in the Passat? (ie is there some amazingly expensive 50,000 mile maintenance required or something to that effect?)
Maintenance costs are directly related to your dealer. Dropping off a VW at the dealer and telling them to give you the "50k mile service" may result in a coronary embolism when you return. Following the owners manual won't result in much maintenance cost until around 100k miles when the timing belt is due for replacement. On my Jetta this can vary from $250 at a private shop using VW parts to $650 at a VW dealership.
If the Passat TDI is anything like the Jetta TDI, outside of sticky one of a kind problems, or abnormal wear problems or patterns, your first real killer is the timing belt change (250-650). at 100,000 (90-120k range) Because of the "self destruct" design it is probably a good idea to change the water pump at this time. (1/2 hr extra labor and 50-70 dollars parts. If done before or after the timing belt you can expect a min of 2-6 hrs labor or 250 plus parts) Since it would save on the labor should you have to do it at separate times and the labor is almost the same both dollar and time wise. Procedurally if you do not change the water pump at this time you are in effect asking it to go to the next timing belt change which by that time the water pump can see up to 240,000 miles. Without the "self destruct design" changing the water pump separately when it is close to failing would be the best.
What refinement are we lacking with two fewer valves?
Also unseen in comparison is the Euro versions have a 1 year/12000 mile warranty vs USA's 4 year/50,000 miles.
Yes, the NA TDI's are tuned differently to achieve emissions.
Please explain what is crappy about the current 2.0L TDI in the 2004-2005 Passat?
Yes, the NA TDI's are tuned differently to achieve emissions.
Please explain what is crappy about the current 2.0L TDI in the 2004-2005 Passat? "
The example I was using was the 1.9 TDI, perhaps while that was clear from the example, I should have said it was also from the VW Jetta TDI.
Why the 2.0 TDI is crappy in the 2004-2005, is/was not my assertion at all.!
In my own case, I would study and research to assertain, verify, longevity, reliability durability issues etc etc.
So for example, what I have garnered from the TDI PD is:
1. a 505.01 spec oil is required
2. mileage figures are lower (46 vs 49) due to making the new engine less efficient for emissions purposes.
3. so far there is no longevity etc issues over the 2003 TDI.
Sorry ruking
In 1978 I was first on my block to have a diesel as the now forgotten and soon-to-be-remembered gas shortage began. Never stood in a gas line with my Oldsmobile, was always in the shop instead waiting for repairs. What damage GM did to itself with those rotten gas conversion engines.
I suspect diesel's popularity will soon soar in the US as gasoline prices continue to climb. I look for my Passat to have low maintenance, high resale value, and when the 2006 restyled Passat arrives will gladly trade in my automatic for a manual. At least that's the plan.
As far as handling is concerned, I too have experienced a mild and brief shudder from the engine when I take my foot off the accelerator doing 70 plus. Other than that the car seems very satisfactory. I'll get over my luxurious Lexus.
Would love to see more input on this new model.
I asked VW Customer service for a manual for the TDI. They sent me to some outfit that publishes and distributes VW manuals. All the place has is complete manuals, for $30 thank you, and they did not know if a TDI spec was in the manual or not. VW customer service then referred me back to my selling dealer. Dealer is working with their factory rep to try to get a 2.0L TDI spec sheet or manual. They are also watching the new TDI Passats to see when a TDI section is in a manual and will copy it and send to me and their other TDI owners. Dealer -10, VW - 0.
Now have 2,000 on my TDI Passat Wagon w/auto. Getting 30 - 34 mpg in mixed town & Hwy driving. On a run from St. Louis to Iowa City I got 37.
So far it is an amazingly pleasant and fun to drive machine. Well built and assembled. Handles predictably, rides great. Seat comfortable. Have leather seats. I think the cloth seats are more comfortable - softer under the fanny.
The only thing I do not like is the Monsoon stereo, which is a poor excuse for a premium stereo.
That's all for now. Thanks for listening. Ralphing1
I will buy a plane ticket and drive the thing back if someone will put me in touch with a dealer in the Western U.S. who will stick to the MSRP for pete's sake. Any thoughts?
P.S. Dick Hannah's Auto Mall, in case you were wondering.
I too agree that talking to the locals in the Portland area is probably a waste of time. Get on the VW website and e-mail or call everybody in the Seattle area...see if you can get a more rational response up there. If I were serious about buying a car right now, that's the approach I would take.
Parenthetically, we moved to Vancouver WA from California last year - I would rate the Mercedes dealer in Portland on a par with, or slightly better than, our regular dealer in Sacramento. Otherwise, in terms of either competition or competence, I have to say I miss the car culture in Calif - these people up here have it too easy in terms of not having to scramble for business, and it shows in their practices and prices.
And if so, would that not be remedied by reprogramming with a Vag-com?
Anyone know exactly what the differences are between US/Can & Europe?
Has anyone seen any reviews comparing their results?
Also, does anybody have insight into how much diesel prices might increase when the switch to lower sulfur is made in '06?
If the 96hp can do all this why do I need 134hp?? Why not just re-chip to 96hp??
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'd say he's applying the "FUD" sales technique. Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. In Europe the Passat wagon sells like hotcakes. It sits in the top 5 sellers every month, month in month out. This is noteworthy because the B5 is 7 years old now in and era of 5 year model changes that is remarkable. There is absolutely no reason to stop building it.
I would also say that getting a B6 in the USA in 2006 is unrealistic. Make a note of how long it is taking to get the Golf MkV into the states. The new Golf has been out here in Germany for a while and is almost old news (the BMW 1-series has people all hot and bothered) in the Golf class. The B6 will be release in Germany first and I would guess a year later in the states.
And if so, would that not be remedied by reprogramming with a Vag-com?
Anyone know exactly what the differences are between US/Can & Europe? "
No.
A qualified yes in that the EGR mod is desirable to prevent long term soot build up in the intake manifold. It can be done in short order on a Vag.com.
While there are a few differences I am sure, the major difference is that the European models have bigger injectors per model. So like for example mine has .184 injectors stock. The Euro or "upgrade" here would be the .205 injectors.