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Comments
2001 RX300, FWD, 4-speed auto trans with electric overdrive engaged, 16" OEM rims and tires, at 70 mph, level road: 2800 rpm, give or take 50 rpm
2004 RX330, FWD, 5-speed auto trans, no obvious overdrive button, 18" OEM rims and tires, at 70 mph, level road: 2100 rpm, give or take 50 rpm
Summary: Older engine/trans is turning faster than new engine/trans. Should prove to be a major improvement in highway mpg.
As for the older RX300 engine/trans not hunting ( downshifting) when climbing hills - you must have a different system than the one in our 2001 RX300 but it sure DID downshift - or need us to make it downshift - when climbing even moderate hills or grades.
They have worn me out and I am taking the 18" wheels. I'm glad they build cars better than they market them. I have a 2000 RX which has never had a warranty claim in nearly 4years and 48000 miles. I also thought I better go ahead now as I do not want one of the first batch of Canadian production which I have heard is to begin in Sept.
For shame - Banned For Life!
You're right and you're wrong. The Lexus build-it-your-way outlines the newest allocation builds, not necessarily what the dealer has on the lot currently.
For example, where I live Lexus was not delivering any Nav units without the ML sound system which I didn't want but had become resigned to - just like you and the 17" vs. 18" rims.
Then, in the matter of a few days, the Lexus.com site changed to indicate that a different alotment was coming off the boats with Nav but without the ML and the local dealers started dealing on that optioned vehicle. Just what we wanted.
Obviously Lexus had indeed made some marketing mistakes with the RX330 - the lack of Nav production, an option they had been building for years and one that posed no unusual design obstacles (unlike the auto-sensor rain wipers, the new multi-panel moonroof, the laser-controlled speed control, etc.) is the biggest that comes to mind.
But, on the other hand, the fact that RX with Nav systems were hard to get - and dealers were/are charging higher OTD prices for RXs with Nav - allowed me to get a great private party price for our used RX300 with Nav with 41k miles that I sold yesterday. I had a dozen calls within a week of listing it online and in the local paper and it sold for 73% of its original price paid 33 months ago - right up there with the used MDXs!
Very impressive and that makes me feel even better about our new RX330 lease that has a lower residual than our RX300 did...(yes, I bought it off lease a few months early because I also wanted a Japanese RX - then sold it private party for more than the pay-off).
I also was concerned about the 18" rims vs. the 17"; after all, we were pretty happy with the 16" OEMs on the RX300 once I changed the rubber to Mich Cross Terrains. I have to tell you that the handling is so far improved with the 18" wheels and standard Michelins that came with the vehicle that I'm no longer concerned. Just make sure that you check the air pressure after delivery and it's no more than 30-32 psi with cold tires and you'll be fine.
Good luck!
The question was whether or not the new RX330 would do it more often since it runs at a lower engine RPM at a specific road speed when compared to the RX300.
The only difference between having five gears instead of four (absent a much lower 1st)_is that the five speed offers more "granulairity" than the four speed, making it easier to stay within the highest torque band of the engine.
However, given the known parameters, final drive ratio, wheel circumference, etc, none of this yet explains just how the RX330 is achieving a lower engine RPM.
"...I am concerned that the new setup may not necessarily be an improvement. For example, the old engine/trans allowed for climbing rather large hills with NO downshifting..."
Guess someone did say that, eh?
Another subject...
From my discussions with Lexus' top engineer, he happily reported that the lower final rpm at speed was achieved by using a new Denso Engine Control Module ("D-ECM Mod II") that recycles and then transfers excess cold air, which is heavier than warm air, from the defrost system to the engine intake thereby producing a pseudo-turbo/supercharge effect.
In short, it crams your defrost cold air thru the powertrain and out the exhaust. Pretty cool, huh?
Here it is near the end of the month; I'm supposed to sit down and purchase the RX330 when a Murano caught my eye while I was on an errand, now I'm hesitating. A difference somewhere near
$5-6,000 is tempting.
Maybe I just need a little push here....
Dennis
We have the following RX330s either in-bound or on the ground.
2WD IN STOCK
Savannah Fully Loaded
Bamboo Pearl Fully Loaded
Neptune Blue Fully Loaded
Black Onyx Performance Package
Bamboo Pearl Premium Package
INCOMMING
Crystal White Fully Loaded
Neptune Blue Fully Loaded
4WD IN STOCK
Crystal White Mark Levinson/Nav
Black All Packages
Savannah Fully Loaded
Breakwater Blue Premium Package
INCOMMING
Flint Mica Fully Loaded
Bamboo Pearl Navigation
Savannah Fully Loaded
The question was whether or not the new RX330 would do it more often since it runs at a lower engine RPM at a specific road speed when compared to the RX300.
The only difference between having five gears instead of four (absent a much lower 1st)_is that the five speed offers more "granulairity" than the four speed, making it easier to stay within the highest torque band of the engine.
However, given the known parameters, final drive ratio, wheel circumference, etc, none of this yet explains just how the RX330 is achieving a lower engine RPM.
Could this be the actual proof I've been seeking for years of a twin universe, running parallel to ours?
And does anyone believe, for a second, that it's mere coincidence that the poster has the SAME LETTER starting both of his names?
I think NOT!
R. Serling
It's a bug in the software, but the only realistic fix is to use a popup for the message box, and that's not a happy solution.
Steve, Host
...but I like R. Serling's explanation better.
...but I like R. Serling's explanation better.
...but I like R. Serling's explanation better.
Jeff:
The 92 LS400, and maybe later models also, had an EPR valve downstream of the evaporator. EPR valves are more commonly used with dual zone systems using more than one evaporator. No one seems to know why one was used in the LS with only one evaporator, one Lexus engineer's best guess was to quiet the hissing of the expansion valve.
Be that as it may, the result in the 92 LS was that the EPR valve metered refrigerant into the vacuum side of the compressor, refrigerant still under pressure, and thus the cooling capacity of the refrigerant wasn't fully exhausted within the evaporator.
That oftentimes resulted in a thick covering, 1/4 to 3/8, of rime ice on the compressor intake lines all the way from the EPR at the firewall to the compressor intake.
It has occurred to me more than once that this unused cooling capacity could have been much better used, rather than simply wasted, by cooling the engine intake airflow.
Your comment brought that back to mind.
Also, for those of you with these early models and had premature A/C cpmpressor failures now you may know why. Even small amounts of liquid refrigerant entering the intake side of the compressor will, over time, do some serious damage.
Nah! Can't be a parallel Universe. Parallel Universes do not intersect! :-)
tidester, host
Jeff (aka Rod): "In short, it crams your defrost cold air thru the powertrain and out the exhaust. Pretty cool, huh?" Was that an intentional pun??
All: What's the big deal about an occasional downshift into 4th gear when climbing a hill? Don't we have more important gripes with the RX330 than that?
Sorry, but as a viewer of far too many episodes of Star Trek, I must respectfully disagree. All it takes is a momentary rip within the space-time continuum. Depending on which version of the series is your favorite, this rip may
a: Cause you to freely travel through time, either staying at your present biological age, or shifting ages to correspond to the resident time period.
or
b: Cause you to switch identities with the "Evil" Tidester from the parallel universe. This may play some havoc on your family and friends.
I had read a long time ago that one competitor, possibly the Mercedes ML, did not have them at some point. It would be extremely unusual for a new premium SUV to exclude child safety locks as a standard feature.
Perhaps the reason why that comparison function did not show child safety locks is because the Lexus RX330 sales brochure also does not list them within the "Safety and Security" list. Maybe this omission is related? Or maybe it has something to do with that parallel universe? Another Lexus marketing glitch...
Let me give you a small push to the Lexus! We also considered the Murano, especially when it originally appeared we would need to pay almost full MSRP on the RX330. (A friendly California dealer helped us save $3K, which pushed us into making our RX330 purchase!)
But... there were also some issues and concerns we had with the Murano. One issue is that my wife disliked the look of its interior. And since she is the primary driver of our SUV, I thought I shouldn't ignore that issue! To be honest, I also thought the interior had a cheap, and rather minivan-ish, look to it. What was up with the top of that dashboard? Was the A/C and audio control pod jammed into the dash as an afterthought?
I then researched different forums regarding the Murano and discovered there were many owners complaining about dash, door, and pillar noises (rattles, squeaks, etc). Even Consumer Reports noted some undesirable interior noises in its test car, when it compared the Murano to the Honda Pilot. Some people don't mind interior rattles, but I can't stand them. Overall, I thought I had reason to question the interior build quality of the '03 Murano.
The Murano is a quicker car than the RX330, but the RX330 isn't exactly a slouch. From what I have read, most people really enjoy driving their Murano. I'm betting it handles better than the RX330, under normal conditions. Unfortunately, to get stability control on the Murano, you have to add several other expensive option packages, driving its price up quickly. While on the subject of the Murano's option packages, I also didn't like that we must buy a package that includes the Bose stereo and power adjustable pedals before we can add a sunroof, leather seats, or stability control.
When making your decision, also consider the Nissan dealer versus Lexus dealer question. I much prefer the service center at our Lexus dealer over any of our local Nissan dealers. Lexus has a longer warranty period, and I expect it will have better long-term reliability. I personally wonder if that new CVT transmission in the Murano will be as reliable as traditional transmissions. Logically, I would say "yes", but since it is so new, especially to an SUV, I wouldn't bet the farm on it!
In all fairness, you should probably test drive the Murano. Maybe you will have the option to purchase an '04 Murano and avoid some early production issues, such as the interior noises that many owners have mentioned? There's no denying it appears to represent a good value, especially if you just want a basic and fun 5-seat family SUV without tacking on many options.
Evil Steve, Host
...as a viewer of far too many episodes of Star Trek, I must respectfully disagree.
"But Captain, I canna change the laws of physics!"
good tidester, host
Spock: "Tidester, or the being who calls himself 'good tidester', I fail to see the humor in any attempt to change the laws of physics. I suggest you refrain from any further attempts to echo 'steve's comments'.
Kirk: (To himself) "Where are the alien babes in this discussion group??"
I read your reply and clicked over to the discussions on the Murano board. All those popping, clicking, and other problems reminded me of what an old, worn-out car sounds like. I didn't notice a lot of complaints about the Lexus SUV's. I bought a pre-owned Lexus about seven years ago and remembered how I felt when I first went there for service. The treatment by everyone there was excellent. I commented to my husband afterwards that it was the first time I felt comfortable in a repair/service department.
Thanks for the "push"...I'm not going to test drive the Murano...don't need to.
So the RX330 must be producting the same HP to the driven wheels at a lower engine RPM (2100??) that the RX300 does at a higher RPM (3000).
Changes the transmission shift pattern such that it "tries" to remain within the engine torque band. Normally, would cause even more downshifting.
Lower gear ratio = more driving torque.
IMMHO.
(What happened to Evil Jeff? I thought he is the designated comedian??)
I'm glad I could help. In fact, you made my day! I am thrilled that someone actually took the effort to listen to my advice! (Now, if I could only get my son to do the same...)
Congratulations on successfully avoiding the Murano. Be mindful of the dark side of the force, or you may lose your way and fall into the hands of an FX35.
There's a major freeway hill that we frequently transverse...in the RX300, I always had to disable the overdrive via the shift knob button in order to get sufficient power without flooring the accelerator. With the RX330, I do nothing and I have ample power going up the same hill.
Must be that pseudo-turbo defrost ch(ill) wind...
And I'm not evil...just drawn that way.
My 01 AWD RX has a front final drive ratio of 3.291:1 and a rear final drive ratio of 2.928:1. Therefore at 70MPH the input shaft to the front differential would turn at 2726RPM.
In overdrive the transmission input shaft vs output shaft ratio is typically not more than 1:1.12 and that would yield an engine RPM at 70MPH of 2434.
The new RX330 runs on 225/65/17 tires, 86.82804462 inches in total circumference. 825 tire revs/minute at 70MPH. The only known final drive ratio for the new RX330 is 3:478:1.
That all would mean, seemingly, that the RX330 engine should be turning at 2561RPM at 70MPH, assuming equal overdrive ratios.
What have I missed? where is the discrepancy?
The 235/65/17s on my 01 RX calculate out to 91.2" but rolling distance seems to be about 87.5".
Go buy yerself one and quit yer bellyachin'.
Waiting to see the RX hybrid.
But certainly intrigued by the upcoming V6 Cayenne.
But the bottom line here on the RX330 FWD vs. the RX300 FWD remains the same - approx 2100 rpm vs. 2800 rpm at the same level freeway speed of 70mph.
So the 3.3L engine with a true 5-speed automatic is turning 25% slower than a smaller 3.0L engine with a 4-speed auto plus electronic OD.
Now all that remains is what effect this has on comparative MPG once the RX330 is past its 5k or 10k oil change.
Something totally different happens when we hop in and drive down the street in my wife's baby blue (Breakwater) RX. Our suburban neighbors out walking and chatting near the house give us a friendly smile and wave. Small kids stop kicking their soccer balls, and instinctively jump up and down, smile and cheer.
So before you buy either model, ask yourself very seriously, which side would YOU rather be on? And may The Force be with you!
<g>
With a calculated tire circumference of 89.5847" A final drive ratio of 2.67 would put the RX330 engine RPM at 70MPH at about 2200RPM.
AND you would likely need 5 gear ratios so that 1st could be geared low enough to make up for the loss of torque with that 2.66 (2.478)final drive ratio.
I'm probably not the first to mention that you're off by 3.5 inches...
According to post #1483, he states that the RX330 tire has "86.82804462 inches in total circumference."
Later, within post #1489, he states that the RX330 tire has "a calculated tire circumference of 89.5847."
Observe that his initial value (post #1483) is less than 0.74" from Jeff's calculation, which may be the difference between the 225/70R17 tire and the 235/55R18 tire. This makes sense, and all seems to be well with this number.
So where did "89.5847" come from?? Normally, my guess would be that it was posted by his evil twin from our parallel universe, except for the fact the rest of his post #1489 made perfect sense to me.
It's hell to go through life always being wrong and feeling inferior. I thought that my wife was the only one to make me feel this way???
The RX300's OEM P225/70/R16 tires have a circumference of 89.22610083"
and:
The RX330's OEM P225/65/R17 tires have a circumference of 86.82804462"
Both statements are correct.
The RX330 final drive ratio is closer to 2.478:1 than it is to the Lexus figure of 3.478:1.