2001 RX300, FWD, 4-speed auto trans with electric overdrive engaged, 16" OEM rims and tires, at 70 mph, level road: 2800 rpm, give or take 50 rpm
2004 RX330, FWD, 5-speed auto trans, no obvious overdrive button, 18" OEM rims and tires, at 70 mph, level road: 2100 rpm, give or take 50 rpm
Summary: Older engine/trans is turning faster than new engine/trans. Should prove to be a major improvement in highway mpg.
As for the older RX300 engine/trans not hunting ( downshifting) when climbing hills - you must have a different system than the one in our 2001 RX300 but it sure DID downshift - or need us to make it downshift - when climbing even moderate hills or grades.
I had believed what you said in #1438 was true until yesterday. I live in FL and had wanted an RX with std 17" wheels because of the road noise factor. My dealer has been saying that all RX's delivered to FL had 18" wheels and until very recently the web site said so also. Then, last Sun I discovered the web site had been changed. However, the dealer said there was no change in his allocations and he still could not get Std wheels except on special order. I called the 800# on the web site and the upshot was that they had no idea how the configurations assigned to each Zip code were chosen, but it did NOT mean that those listed were available without a special order. The guy said he would check this out, but I am not holding my breath. They have worn me out and I am taking the 18" wheels. I'm glad they build cars better than they market them. I have a 2000 RX which has never had a warranty claim in nearly 4years and 48000 miles. I also thought I better go ahead now as I do not want one of the first batch of Canadian production which I have heard is to begin in Sept.
What - one of MY posts is not entirely true? For shame - Banned For Life!
You're right and you're wrong. The Lexus build-it-your-way outlines the newest allocation builds, not necessarily what the dealer has on the lot currently.
For example, where I live Lexus was not delivering any Nav units without the ML sound system which I didn't want but had become resigned to - just like you and the 17" vs. 18" rims.
Then, in the matter of a few days, the Lexus.com site changed to indicate that a different alotment was coming off the boats with Nav but without the ML and the local dealers started dealing on that optioned vehicle. Just what we wanted.
Obviously Lexus had indeed made some marketing mistakes with the RX330 - the lack of Nav production, an option they had been building for years and one that posed no unusual design obstacles (unlike the auto-sensor rain wipers, the new multi-panel moonroof, the laser-controlled speed control, etc.) is the biggest that comes to mind.
But, on the other hand, the fact that RX with Nav systems were hard to get - and dealers were/are charging higher OTD prices for RXs with Nav - allowed me to get a great private party price for our used RX300 with Nav with 41k miles that I sold yesterday. I had a dozen calls within a week of listing it online and in the local paper and it sold for 73% of its original price paid 33 months ago - right up there with the used MDXs! Very impressive and that makes me feel even better about our new RX330 lease that has a lower residual than our RX300 did...(yes, I bought it off lease a few months early because I also wanted a Japanese RX - then sold it private party for more than the pay-off).
I also was concerned about the 18" rims vs. the 17"; after all, we were pretty happy with the 16" OEMs on the RX300 once I changed the rubber to Mich Cross Terrains. I have to tell you that the handling is so far improved with the 18" wheels and standard Michelins that came with the vehicle that I'm no longer concerned. Just make sure that you check the air pressure after delivery and it's no more than 30-32 psi with cold tires and you'll be fine.
No one said that the RX300 didn't downshift or slip out of overdrive fairly often, it certainly does.
The question was whether or not the new RX330 would do it more often since it runs at a lower engine RPM at a specific road speed when compared to the RX300.
The only difference between having five gears instead of four (absent a much lower 1st)_is that the five speed offers more "granulairity" than the four speed, making it easier to stay within the highest torque band of the engine.
However, given the known parameters, final drive ratio, wheel circumference, etc, none of this yet explains just how the RX330 is achieving a lower engine RPM.
Post 1442: "...I am concerned that the new setup may not necessarily be an improvement. For example, the old engine/trans allowed for climbing rather large hills with NO downshifting..."
Guess someone did say that, eh?
Another subject...
From my discussions with Lexus' top engineer, he happily reported that the lower final rpm at speed was achieved by using a new Denso Engine Control Module ("D-ECM Mod II") that recycles and then transfers excess cold air, which is heavier than warm air, from the defrost system to the engine intake thereby producing a pseudo-turbo/supercharge effect.
In short, it crams your defrost cold air thru the powertrain and out the exhaust. Pretty cool, huh?
Now, I don't want any hate mail on this question (just kiddin'). How does the Nissan Murano stand against the RX330? I read the engine is larger, etc. But is the ride more stiff and hard?
Here it is near the end of the month; I'm supposed to sit down and purchase the RX330 when a Murano caught my eye while I was on an errand, now I'm hesitating. A difference somewhere near $5-6,000 is tempting.
Received this e-mail from Magnussen Lexus (in Fremont, CA) if anyone is interested:
We have the following RX330s either in-bound or on the ground.
2WD IN STOCK Savannah Fully Loaded Bamboo Pearl Fully Loaded Neptune Blue Fully Loaded Black Onyx Performance Package Bamboo Pearl Premium Package INCOMMING Crystal White Fully Loaded Neptune Blue Fully Loaded
4WD IN STOCK Crystal White Mark Levinson/Nav Black All Packages Savannah Fully Loaded Breakwater Blue Premium Package INCOMMING Flint Mica Fully Loaded Bamboo Pearl Navigation Savannah Fully Loaded
My dealer said that the Canadian plant would not produce all of the RX330s. It would supply cars only to Canada and the North East US. Texas and much of the US would still get their cars from Japan.
No one said that the RX300 didn't downshift or slip out of overdrive fairly often, it certainly does.
The question was whether or not the new RX330 would do it more often since it runs at a lower engine RPM at a specific road speed when compared to the RX300.
The only difference between having five gears instead of four (absent a much lower 1st)_is that the five speed offers more "granulairity" than the four speed, making it easier to stay within the highest torque band of the engine.
However, given the known parameters, final drive ratio, wheel circumference, etc, none of this yet explains just how the RX330 is achieving a lower engine RPM.
The 92 LS400, and maybe later models also, had an EPR valve downstream of the evaporator. EPR valves are more commonly used with dual zone systems using more than one evaporator. No one seems to know why one was used in the LS with only one evaporator, one Lexus engineer's best guess was to quiet the hissing of the expansion valve.
Be that as it may, the result in the 92 LS was that the EPR valve metered refrigerant into the vacuum side of the compressor, refrigerant still under pressure, and thus the cooling capacity of the refrigerant wasn't fully exhausted within the evaporator.
That oftentimes resulted in a thick covering, 1/4 to 3/8, of rime ice on the compressor intake lines all the way from the EPR at the firewall to the compressor intake.
It has occurred to me more than once that this unused cooling capacity could have been much better used, rather than simply wasted, by cooling the engine intake airflow.
Your comment brought that back to mind.
Also, for those of you with these early models and had premature A/C cpmpressor failures now you may know why. Even small amounts of liquid refrigerant entering the intake side of the compressor will, over time, do some serious damage.
Steve: Can I get my post to appear like 5 times or more just be repeatedly refreshing my screen? I think I'll give that a try...
Jeff (aka Rod): "In short, it crams your defrost cold air thru the powertrain and out the exhaust. Pretty cool, huh?" Was that an intentional pun??
All: What's the big deal about an occasional downshift into 4th gear when climbing a hill? Don't we have more important gripes with the RX330 than that?
Is it true that the RX330 doesn't have child safety locks? I have a new baby and the vehicle comparison function on the Lexus web-site (!) says that the BMW X5 3.0 has child safety locks while the Lexus RX330 doesn't have safety locks.
Sorry, but as a viewer of far too many episodes of Star Trek, I must respectfully disagree. All it takes is a momentary rip within the space-time continuum. Depending on which version of the series is your favorite, this rip may
a: Cause you to freely travel through time, either staying at your present biological age, or shifting ages to correspond to the resident time period.
or
b: Cause you to switch identities with the "Evil" Tidester from the parallel universe. This may play some havoc on your family and friends.
Andrew: If you are describing child safety locks that prevent a rear seat passenger from opening the door from inside the cabin, the RX330 does have them. My wife uses them on me to keep me away from CompUSA while she is grocery shopping.
I had read a long time ago that one competitor, possibly the Mercedes ML, did not have them at some point. It would be extremely unusual for a new premium SUV to exclude child safety locks as a standard feature.
Perhaps the reason why that comparison function did not show child safety locks is because the Lexus RX330 sales brochure also does not list them within the "Safety and Security" list. Maybe this omission is related? Or maybe it has something to do with that parallel universe? Another Lexus marketing glitch...
First of all, I love your "real" name that you've listed within your profile! :-)
Let me give you a small push to the Lexus! We also considered the Murano, especially when it originally appeared we would need to pay almost full MSRP on the RX330. (A friendly California dealer helped us save $3K, which pushed us into making our RX330 purchase!)
But... there were also some issues and concerns we had with the Murano. One issue is that my wife disliked the look of its interior. And since she is the primary driver of our SUV, I thought I shouldn't ignore that issue! To be honest, I also thought the interior had a cheap, and rather minivan-ish, look to it. What was up with the top of that dashboard? Was the A/C and audio control pod jammed into the dash as an afterthought?
I then researched different forums regarding the Murano and discovered there were many owners complaining about dash, door, and pillar noises (rattles, squeaks, etc). Even Consumer Reports noted some undesirable interior noises in its test car, when it compared the Murano to the Honda Pilot. Some people don't mind interior rattles, but I can't stand them. Overall, I thought I had reason to question the interior build quality of the '03 Murano.
The Murano is a quicker car than the RX330, but the RX330 isn't exactly a slouch. From what I have read, most people really enjoy driving their Murano. I'm betting it handles better than the RX330, under normal conditions. Unfortunately, to get stability control on the Murano, you have to add several other expensive option packages, driving its price up quickly. While on the subject of the Murano's option packages, I also didn't like that we must buy a package that includes the Bose stereo and power adjustable pedals before we can add a sunroof, leather seats, or stability control.
When making your decision, also consider the Nissan dealer versus Lexus dealer question. I much prefer the service center at our Lexus dealer over any of our local Nissan dealers. Lexus has a longer warranty period, and I expect it will have better long-term reliability. I personally wonder if that new CVT transmission in the Murano will be as reliable as traditional transmissions. Logically, I would say "yes", but since it is so new, especially to an SUV, I wouldn't bet the farm on it!
In all fairness, you should probably test drive the Murano. Maybe you will have the option to purchase an '04 Murano and avoid some early production issues, such as the interior noises that many owners have mentioned? There's no denying it appears to represent a good value, especially if you just want a basic and fun 5-seat family SUV without tacking on many options.
Uhura: "Captain, we are receiving some transmissions from Town Hall. I believe it is the RX330 discussion group. But instead of discussing automobiles, they're discussing parallel universes!"
Spock: "Tidester, or the being who calls himself 'good tidester', I fail to see the humor in any attempt to change the laws of physics. I suggest you refrain from any further attempts to echo 'steve's comments'.
Kirk: (To himself) "Where are the alien babes in this discussion group??"
I can buy into the granularity theory except for high (5th) gear. 2100 rpm at 70 mph is so far down the power curve that you are pretty much guaranteed a downshift on any hill. I know that the old engine/trans at 2700-2800 rpm will climb many of the hills/mountains in my area (I81 western VA) with cruise control maintained speed at 65-70 mph and with no downshift. My 1992 V6 Camry (2600 rpm at 70 mph) will also do the same. To me this is much more enjoyable driving because you don't get that speed variation ( using cruise control) due to loosing a little speed, downshift, gain speed, overrun speed at top of hill, upshift, try to slow down. I had a 2001 Honda Odyssey that was so annoying with cruise control that I sold it. It turned 2000 rpm at 70 mph but only had a 4 speed tran. So when it downshifted the rpm would go to over 3000 and would push you back in your seat. Also, if you so much as touched the accelerate feature on the cruise control it would immediately downshift to 3rd gear. Very annoying. The RX330 is better than this due to the close ratio of gears and the 5 speed trans; however I am not convinced that it is improved over the old engine/trans combination.(other than gas mileage)
Thanks for the, ummm, compliment. I thought of Domestic Goddess, but it just doesn't fit me.
I read your reply and clicked over to the discussions on the Murano board. All those popping, clicking, and other problems reminded me of what an old, worn-out car sounds like. I didn't notice a lot of complaints about the Lexus SUV's. I bought a pre-owned Lexus about seven years ago and remembered how I felt when I first went there for service. The treatment by everyone there was excellent. I commented to my husband afterwards that it was the first time I felt comfortable in a repair/service department.
Thanks for the "push"...I'm not going to test drive the Murano...don't need to.
All other things aside, and absent significant reductions in wind resistance and/or rolling resistance, the new RX330 will take approximately the same HP to move it forward at 70mph that it takes the RX300.
So the RX330 must be producting the same HP to the driven wheels at a lower engine RPM (2100??) that the RX300 does at a higher RPM (3000).
What would be the effect of the bigger engine (3.3 vs 3.0) on the RPM at the 70 MPH speed in top gear ? Irrespective of number of gears, 4 or 5, I think it will take less efforts for a bigger engine to maintain the same speed. Less efforts = low RPM.
I have an RX 300 and it has a "power" switch that I use when climbing some hills. It supposedly changes the shift range or curve and reduces the downshifting. (It seems to work but I'm not really sure.) I am assuming from this discussion that the 330 doesn't have this feature.
Not sure what your message is saying. I wasn't talking about the snow switch and where does a GS300 come into the mix? I have an RX300 and it has a snow switch which I believe starts the car in 2nd and the power switch which I was told keeps it in the lower gears longer.
I also like "Domestic Goddess", but I understand that might have led to some unsolicited and inappropriate email -- possibly from my evil twin.
I'm glad I could help. In fact, you made my day! I am thrilled that someone actually took the effort to listen to my advice! (Now, if I could only get my son to do the same...)
Congratulations on successfully avoiding the Murano. Be mindful of the dark side of the force, or you may lose your way and fall into the hands of an FX35.
The RX330 does not have a "power" switch, or any type of "sport" switch. As avery1 and wwest point out, some vehicles have this switch which causes the vehicle to operate at a higher rpm. Upshifts are delayed to help keep the vehicle in the power band. Likewise, downshifts will be more frequent when driving at highway speeds. However, there is also a chance that downshifting will be reduced in some situations, by not allowing the vehicle to upshift into top gear as frequently. Make sense?
that we had did not have a "power switch" - just the snow toggle on the console that starts you out in 2nd instead of 1st...and the overdrive enable/disable button under the shift knob - could THIS be the "power switch" being discussed?
There's a major freeway hill that we frequently transverse...in the RX300, I always had to disable the overdrive via the shift knob button in order to get sufficient power without flooring the accelerator. With the RX330, I do nothing and I have ample power going up the same hill.
My RX300 came with P225/70R16 tires. Pure math says the circumference of this tire is 89.22610083 inches. This tire would make 710.106 revolutions in one mile, or at 70MPH, 828.457 revs each minute.
My 01 AWD RX has a front final drive ratio of 3.291:1 and a rear final drive ratio of 2.928:1. Therefore at 70MPH the input shaft to the front differential would turn at 2726RPM.
In overdrive the transmission input shaft vs output shaft ratio is typically not more than 1:1.12 and that would yield an engine RPM at 70MPH of 2434.
The new RX330 runs on 225/65/17 tires, 86.82804462 inches in total circumference. 825 tire revs/minute at 70MPH. The only known final drive ratio for the new RX330 is 3:478:1.
That all would mean, seemingly, that the RX330 engine should be turning at 2561RPM at 70MPH, assuming equal overdrive ratios.
What have I missed? where is the discrepancy?
The 235/65/17s on my 01 RX calculate out to 91.2" but rolling distance seems to be about 87.5".
Mine is a '99 RX and it has the snow switch and the power switch which are opposite positions on a rocker switch where the middle position is off. And I also have the overdrive disable button on the shifter.
is the same one on my '98 LS400 - snow/power selections. The snow selection eliminates first gear and potential wheel spin in low-traction events and the power selection just changes the rpm shift points going thru the gears so acceleration is improved if you keep you foot to the floor.
But the bottom line here on the RX330 FWD vs. the RX300 FWD remains the same - approx 2100 rpm vs. 2800 rpm at the same level freeway speed of 70mph.
So the 3.3L engine with a true 5-speed automatic is turning 25% slower than a smaller 3.0L engine with a 4-speed auto plus electronic OD.
Now all that remains is what effect this has on comparative MPG once the RX330 is past its 5k or 10k oil change.
May be accurate in our case - when we fire up the engine and take off in my FX45 (very menacing look, in Black) we enter the "dark side." Young evil men give you a big "thumbs up" and nod approvingly as you rumble by, while most other folks either run for cover or stand there frozen, not knowing what to do, becoming easy targets.
Something totally different happens when we hop in and drive down the street in my wife's baby blue (Breakwater) RX. Our suburban neighbors out walking and chatting near the house give us a friendly smile and wave. Small kids stop kicking their soccer balls, and instinctively jump up and down, smile and cheer.
So before you buy either model, ask yourself very seriously, which side would YOU rather be on? And may The Force be with you!
I'd be willing to bet that the RX330's final drive ratio is something more in the range of 2.478:1, NOT 3.478:1 as is published.
With a calculated tire circumference of 89.5847" A final drive ratio of 2.67 would put the RX330 engine RPM at 70MPH at about 2200RPM.
AND you would likely need 5 gear ratios so that 1st could be geared low enough to make up for the loss of torque with that 2.66 (2.478)final drive ratio.
Was Mr. West really off by 3.5 inches?? Let's examine the evidence:
According to post #1483, he states that the RX330 tire has "86.82804462 inches in total circumference."
Later, within post #1489, he states that the RX330 tire has "a calculated tire circumference of 89.5847."
Observe that his initial value (post #1483) is less than 0.74" from Jeff's calculation, which may be the difference between the 225/70R17 tire and the 235/55R18 tire. This makes sense, and all seems to be well with this number.
So where did "89.5847" come from?? Normally, my guess would be that it was posted by his evil twin from our parallel universe, except for the fact the rest of his post #1489 made perfect sense to me.
Now you know why I haven't posted anything lately! It's hell to go through life always being wrong and feeling inferior. I thought that my wife was the only one to make me feel this way???
Comments
2001 RX300, FWD, 4-speed auto trans with electric overdrive engaged, 16" OEM rims and tires, at 70 mph, level road: 2800 rpm, give or take 50 rpm
2004 RX330, FWD, 5-speed auto trans, no obvious overdrive button, 18" OEM rims and tires, at 70 mph, level road: 2100 rpm, give or take 50 rpm
Summary: Older engine/trans is turning faster than new engine/trans. Should prove to be a major improvement in highway mpg.
As for the older RX300 engine/trans not hunting ( downshifting) when climbing hills - you must have a different system than the one in our 2001 RX300 but it sure DID downshift - or need us to make it downshift - when climbing even moderate hills or grades.
They have worn me out and I am taking the 18" wheels. I'm glad they build cars better than they market them. I have a 2000 RX which has never had a warranty claim in nearly 4years and 48000 miles. I also thought I better go ahead now as I do not want one of the first batch of Canadian production which I have heard is to begin in Sept.
For shame - Banned For Life!
You're right and you're wrong. The Lexus build-it-your-way outlines the newest allocation builds, not necessarily what the dealer has on the lot currently.
For example, where I live Lexus was not delivering any Nav units without the ML sound system which I didn't want but had become resigned to - just like you and the 17" vs. 18" rims.
Then, in the matter of a few days, the Lexus.com site changed to indicate that a different alotment was coming off the boats with Nav but without the ML and the local dealers started dealing on that optioned vehicle. Just what we wanted.
Obviously Lexus had indeed made some marketing mistakes with the RX330 - the lack of Nav production, an option they had been building for years and one that posed no unusual design obstacles (unlike the auto-sensor rain wipers, the new multi-panel moonroof, the laser-controlled speed control, etc.) is the biggest that comes to mind.
But, on the other hand, the fact that RX with Nav systems were hard to get - and dealers were/are charging higher OTD prices for RXs with Nav - allowed me to get a great private party price for our used RX300 with Nav with 41k miles that I sold yesterday. I had a dozen calls within a week of listing it online and in the local paper and it sold for 73% of its original price paid 33 months ago - right up there with the used MDXs!
Very impressive and that makes me feel even better about our new RX330 lease that has a lower residual than our RX300 did...(yes, I bought it off lease a few months early because I also wanted a Japanese RX - then sold it private party for more than the pay-off).
I also was concerned about the 18" rims vs. the 17"; after all, we were pretty happy with the 16" OEMs on the RX300 once I changed the rubber to Mich Cross Terrains. I have to tell you that the handling is so far improved with the 18" wheels and standard Michelins that came with the vehicle that I'm no longer concerned. Just make sure that you check the air pressure after delivery and it's no more than 30-32 psi with cold tires and you'll be fine.
Good luck!
The question was whether or not the new RX330 would do it more often since it runs at a lower engine RPM at a specific road speed when compared to the RX300.
The only difference between having five gears instead of four (absent a much lower 1st)_is that the five speed offers more "granulairity" than the four speed, making it easier to stay within the highest torque band of the engine.
However, given the known parameters, final drive ratio, wheel circumference, etc, none of this yet explains just how the RX330 is achieving a lower engine RPM.
"...I am concerned that the new setup may not necessarily be an improvement. For example, the old engine/trans allowed for climbing rather large hills with NO downshifting..."
Guess someone did say that, eh?
Another subject...
From my discussions with Lexus' top engineer, he happily reported that the lower final rpm at speed was achieved by using a new Denso Engine Control Module ("D-ECM Mod II") that recycles and then transfers excess cold air, which is heavier than warm air, from the defrost system to the engine intake thereby producing a pseudo-turbo/supercharge effect.
In short, it crams your defrost cold air thru the powertrain and out the exhaust. Pretty cool, huh?
Here it is near the end of the month; I'm supposed to sit down and purchase the RX330 when a Murano caught my eye while I was on an errand, now I'm hesitating. A difference somewhere near
$5-6,000 is tempting.
Maybe I just need a little push here....
Dennis
We have the following RX330s either in-bound or on the ground.
2WD IN STOCK
Savannah Fully Loaded
Bamboo Pearl Fully Loaded
Neptune Blue Fully Loaded
Black Onyx Performance Package
Bamboo Pearl Premium Package
INCOMMING
Crystal White Fully Loaded
Neptune Blue Fully Loaded
4WD IN STOCK
Crystal White Mark Levinson/Nav
Black All Packages
Savannah Fully Loaded
Breakwater Blue Premium Package
INCOMMING
Flint Mica Fully Loaded
Bamboo Pearl Navigation
Savannah Fully Loaded
The question was whether or not the new RX330 would do it more often since it runs at a lower engine RPM at a specific road speed when compared to the RX300.
The only difference between having five gears instead of four (absent a much lower 1st)_is that the five speed offers more "granulairity" than the four speed, making it easier to stay within the highest torque band of the engine.
However, given the known parameters, final drive ratio, wheel circumference, etc, none of this yet explains just how the RX330 is achieving a lower engine RPM.
Could this be the actual proof I've been seeking for years of a twin universe, running parallel to ours?
And does anyone believe, for a second, that it's mere coincidence that the poster has the SAME LETTER starting both of his names?
I think NOT!
R. Serling
It's a bug in the software, but the only realistic fix is to use a popup for the message box, and that's not a happy solution.
Steve, Host
...but I like R. Serling's explanation better.
...but I like R. Serling's explanation better.
...but I like R. Serling's explanation better.
Jeff:
The 92 LS400, and maybe later models also, had an EPR valve downstream of the evaporator. EPR valves are more commonly used with dual zone systems using more than one evaporator. No one seems to know why one was used in the LS with only one evaporator, one Lexus engineer's best guess was to quiet the hissing of the expansion valve.
Be that as it may, the result in the 92 LS was that the EPR valve metered refrigerant into the vacuum side of the compressor, refrigerant still under pressure, and thus the cooling capacity of the refrigerant wasn't fully exhausted within the evaporator.
That oftentimes resulted in a thick covering, 1/4 to 3/8, of rime ice on the compressor intake lines all the way from the EPR at the firewall to the compressor intake.
It has occurred to me more than once that this unused cooling capacity could have been much better used, rather than simply wasted, by cooling the engine intake airflow.
Your comment brought that back to mind.
Also, for those of you with these early models and had premature A/C cpmpressor failures now you may know why. Even small amounts of liquid refrigerant entering the intake side of the compressor will, over time, do some serious damage.
Nah! Can't be a parallel Universe. Parallel Universes do not intersect! :-)
tidester, host
Jeff (aka Rod): "In short, it crams your defrost cold air thru the powertrain and out the exhaust. Pretty cool, huh?" Was that an intentional pun??
All: What's the big deal about an occasional downshift into 4th gear when climbing a hill? Don't we have more important gripes with the RX330 than that?
Sorry, but as a viewer of far too many episodes of Star Trek, I must respectfully disagree. All it takes is a momentary rip within the space-time continuum. Depending on which version of the series is your favorite, this rip may
a: Cause you to freely travel through time, either staying at your present biological age, or shifting ages to correspond to the resident time period.
or
b: Cause you to switch identities with the "Evil" Tidester from the parallel universe. This may play some havoc on your family and friends.
I had read a long time ago that one competitor, possibly the Mercedes ML, did not have them at some point. It would be extremely unusual for a new premium SUV to exclude child safety locks as a standard feature.
Perhaps the reason why that comparison function did not show child safety locks is because the Lexus RX330 sales brochure also does not list them within the "Safety and Security" list. Maybe this omission is related? Or maybe it has something to do with that parallel universe? Another Lexus marketing glitch...
Let me give you a small push to the Lexus! We also considered the Murano, especially when it originally appeared we would need to pay almost full MSRP on the RX330. (A friendly California dealer helped us save $3K, which pushed us into making our RX330 purchase!)
But... there were also some issues and concerns we had with the Murano. One issue is that my wife disliked the look of its interior. And since she is the primary driver of our SUV, I thought I shouldn't ignore that issue! To be honest, I also thought the interior had a cheap, and rather minivan-ish, look to it. What was up with the top of that dashboard? Was the A/C and audio control pod jammed into the dash as an afterthought?
I then researched different forums regarding the Murano and discovered there were many owners complaining about dash, door, and pillar noises (rattles, squeaks, etc). Even Consumer Reports noted some undesirable interior noises in its test car, when it compared the Murano to the Honda Pilot. Some people don't mind interior rattles, but I can't stand them. Overall, I thought I had reason to question the interior build quality of the '03 Murano.
The Murano is a quicker car than the RX330, but the RX330 isn't exactly a slouch. From what I have read, most people really enjoy driving their Murano. I'm betting it handles better than the RX330, under normal conditions. Unfortunately, to get stability control on the Murano, you have to add several other expensive option packages, driving its price up quickly. While on the subject of the Murano's option packages, I also didn't like that we must buy a package that includes the Bose stereo and power adjustable pedals before we can add a sunroof, leather seats, or stability control.
When making your decision, also consider the Nissan dealer versus Lexus dealer question. I much prefer the service center at our Lexus dealer over any of our local Nissan dealers. Lexus has a longer warranty period, and I expect it will have better long-term reliability. I personally wonder if that new CVT transmission in the Murano will be as reliable as traditional transmissions. Logically, I would say "yes", but since it is so new, especially to an SUV, I wouldn't bet the farm on it!
In all fairness, you should probably test drive the Murano. Maybe you will have the option to purchase an '04 Murano and avoid some early production issues, such as the interior noises that many owners have mentioned? There's no denying it appears to represent a good value, especially if you just want a basic and fun 5-seat family SUV without tacking on many options.
Evil Steve, Host
...as a viewer of far too many episodes of Star Trek, I must respectfully disagree.
"But Captain, I canna change the laws of physics!"
good tidester, host
Spock: "Tidester, or the being who calls himself 'good tidester', I fail to see the humor in any attempt to change the laws of physics. I suggest you refrain from any further attempts to echo 'steve's comments'.
Kirk: (To himself) "Where are the alien babes in this discussion group??"
I read your reply and clicked over to the discussions on the Murano board. All those popping, clicking, and other problems reminded me of what an old, worn-out car sounds like. I didn't notice a lot of complaints about the Lexus SUV's. I bought a pre-owned Lexus about seven years ago and remembered how I felt when I first went there for service. The treatment by everyone there was excellent. I commented to my husband afterwards that it was the first time I felt comfortable in a repair/service department.
Thanks for the "push"...I'm not going to test drive the Murano...don't need to.
So the RX330 must be producting the same HP to the driven wheels at a lower engine RPM (2100??) that the RX300 does at a higher RPM (3000).
Changes the transmission shift pattern such that it "tries" to remain within the engine torque band. Normally, would cause even more downshifting.
Lower gear ratio = more driving torque.
IMMHO.
(What happened to Evil Jeff? I thought he is the designated comedian??)
I'm glad I could help. In fact, you made my day! I am thrilled that someone actually took the effort to listen to my advice! (Now, if I could only get my son to do the same...)
Congratulations on successfully avoiding the Murano. Be mindful of the dark side of the force, or you may lose your way and fall into the hands of an FX35.
There's a major freeway hill that we frequently transverse...in the RX300, I always had to disable the overdrive via the shift knob button in order to get sufficient power without flooring the accelerator. With the RX330, I do nothing and I have ample power going up the same hill.
Must be that pseudo-turbo defrost ch(ill) wind...
And I'm not evil...just drawn that way.
My 01 AWD RX has a front final drive ratio of 3.291:1 and a rear final drive ratio of 2.928:1. Therefore at 70MPH the input shaft to the front differential would turn at 2726RPM.
In overdrive the transmission input shaft vs output shaft ratio is typically not more than 1:1.12 and that would yield an engine RPM at 70MPH of 2434.
The new RX330 runs on 225/65/17 tires, 86.82804462 inches in total circumference. 825 tire revs/minute at 70MPH. The only known final drive ratio for the new RX330 is 3:478:1.
That all would mean, seemingly, that the RX330 engine should be turning at 2561RPM at 70MPH, assuming equal overdrive ratios.
What have I missed? where is the discrepancy?
The 235/65/17s on my 01 RX calculate out to 91.2" but rolling distance seems to be about 87.5".
Go buy yerself one and quit yer bellyachin'.
Waiting to see the RX hybrid.
But certainly intrigued by the upcoming V6 Cayenne.
But the bottom line here on the RX330 FWD vs. the RX300 FWD remains the same - approx 2100 rpm vs. 2800 rpm at the same level freeway speed of 70mph.
So the 3.3L engine with a true 5-speed automatic is turning 25% slower than a smaller 3.0L engine with a 4-speed auto plus electronic OD.
Now all that remains is what effect this has on comparative MPG once the RX330 is past its 5k or 10k oil change.
Something totally different happens when we hop in and drive down the street in my wife's baby blue (Breakwater) RX. Our suburban neighbors out walking and chatting near the house give us a friendly smile and wave. Small kids stop kicking their soccer balls, and instinctively jump up and down, smile and cheer.
So before you buy either model, ask yourself very seriously, which side would YOU rather be on? And may The Force be with you!
<g>
With a calculated tire circumference of 89.5847" A final drive ratio of 2.67 would put the RX330 engine RPM at 70MPH at about 2200RPM.
AND you would likely need 5 gear ratios so that 1st could be geared low enough to make up for the loss of torque with that 2.66 (2.478)final drive ratio.
I'm probably not the first to mention that you're off by 3.5 inches...
According to post #1483, he states that the RX330 tire has "86.82804462 inches in total circumference."
Later, within post #1489, he states that the RX330 tire has "a calculated tire circumference of 89.5847."
Observe that his initial value (post #1483) is less than 0.74" from Jeff's calculation, which may be the difference between the 225/70R17 tire and the 235/55R18 tire. This makes sense, and all seems to be well with this number.
So where did "89.5847" come from?? Normally, my guess would be that it was posted by his evil twin from our parallel universe, except for the fact the rest of his post #1489 made perfect sense to me.
It's hell to go through life always being wrong and feeling inferior. I thought that my wife was the only one to make me feel this way???
The RX300's OEM P225/70/R16 tires have a circumference of 89.22610083"
and:
The RX330's OEM P225/65/R17 tires have a circumference of 86.82804462"
Both statements are correct.
The RX330 final drive ratio is closer to 2.478:1 than it is to the Lexus figure of 3.478:1.