I am reading the fine print in the 24 hour assistance towing assistance information guide that I got with my '05 Limited CRD in August. Page 3, " First purchasers for use of the vehicle with a Diesel Engine also receive a 7 year/ 100,000 mile Limited Diesel Engine Warranty and 24 Hour Towing Assistance will be provided for warrantable defects covered under this Limited Diesel Engine Warranty." I get the idea that everyone thinks they only have a 7/70 warranty, but what I am getting from the above quote, is the engine is covered for 100,000. Anyone else noticed this in their '05 ?
The towing book is the only place this is mentioned. The actual warranty booklet says 7/70 powertrain and 3/36 basic limited. No mention anywhere of 100,000 mile warranty for the diesel.
The common rail uses what Robert Bosch GmbH, the leading supplier of common rail diesel components, calls a two-chamber system. The fuel is atomized in the common rail and then direct injected into the cylinder. Pressure in the "common rail," which looks like a 2-foot tube of about 1" diameter will top 2,000 BAR. The air in the cylinder head has also been put under great pressure on the intake stroke. The advanced system in the CRD uses two pilot injections prior to the main injection. This prepares the cylinders for the main injection of fuel, which helps to smooth out the main combustion and quiet the engine, especially at idle.
Well, I'm thinking we should agree to disagree on this one.
The statements you're making still make no sense...simply because it's impossible to calibrate two different engines exactly the same. If you put a gasser in neutral and give it just a bit of throttle (say 5%), it will not go bouncing off the rev limiter; it will increase in RPMs slightly. A diesel will do the exact same thing. They behave identically. There is no difference. Common sense and any driving experience will tell you that a gas engine doesn't reach "max rpm" at all throttle apertures, nor does a diesel. Assuming constant load, both gas and diesel engines increase RPM with increased throttle position.
As for your comments regarding moutain driving, because a diesel lacks a throttle butterfly to control airflow, they are actually far less efficient at engine braking than a gasoline engine. The only advantage of the diesel is that it: 1) doesn't build the potentially damaging high vacuum of a gasser straining to suck air against a closed butterfly; and, 2) has higher compression which helps to offset the loss of engine braking efficiency caused by its open access to outside air. The relative inefficiency of diesels in engine braking is why so many large Over the Road diesels use exhaust, jake, or other forms of accessory engine brakes.
I'm going to bow out of this one, as it makes no sense to continue the dispute. If you'd like the last word, that's fine. I just hope it makes a bit more sense.
Thanks so much for the feedback. This is a great source of info for the Jeep CRD. I have heard about the filter not being the best for the diesel so I will try going back to stock for a few tanks and see if there is a diff. You say you generally exceed the EPA highway rating by 2-4 mpg? Yet you only get 20-21 ? I thought we were supposed to get 24-28 mpg?
I'm really considering the performance modual "DR PERFORMANCE Pred For 2005-06 Jeep Liberty Diesel GAIN AN AMAZING 60 HP !! BETTER FUEL ECONOMY !!" Anyone tried these yet? Thanks again
Hellooo Lightnin3, I will try the tranny oil change and the previously mentioned air filter. The tires may cost me more than I'd save over 3 years but I will shop around in the spring as we are heading into the Fall/winter months and I'll be wanting to uses these lugs (even with the Diesel at $3.39 a gallon in Fenton,Michigan this morning) Thanks again. dacur
I also emptied the water seperator filter the other day. It's messy but very easy. Just put a plastic trash bag under your Libby with lots of paper towels to catch the spill off of diesel and water that are in the filter. MAKE SURE YOU UNPLUG THE WIRE HARNESS ON THE BOTTOM OF THE FILTER........if not you will end up twisting the wires off when you go to unscrew the filter. Unplug the harnesses and take off the fuel hose (small metal clamp holds it on ) then unscrew like an oil filter. It is a tight fit so wear some gloves or lose some skin. It took a few minutes of slow dripping to really drain it out. They recommend emptying/changing it every 6K miles (I think....my manual is outside and I'm a 3rd shifter going to bed in 10 sec's)
Ace, I just went through the same process of buying a Jeep last week and bought mine on Oct 1, 2005. I wrestled with the 2005 vs 2006 issue as well as prices and options. I ended up getting a 2005 because it was a better deal with incentives and it has a better warranty. The 05 has a 7/70 drive train warranty which Jeep dropped on the 06. I was able to get an 05 Sport (automatic) in the color I want with towing package and few other little things for $22,600. The best price I could find on an 06 Sport was $25,300. Go to E-bay and check out the ones they have there. There are two dealers in NC ( Steve White and Empire) which slash the prices by giving all incentives, plus the discount 1/2 of hold back and don't charge for "processing". Their deals are very hard to beat. They also deliver at a very reasonable rate. The othe dealer I found that was competitive was Quinn Jeep in West Point, VA outside Richmond. Not quite as good a deal as the two NC dealers but there was no delivery involved for me. So far I love my CRD and got 28.8 mpg on the highway for the first 125 miles - not bad. My mixed mountain driving is coming in around 22 mpg. Go to ebay and check out the deals - then call these guys - the deals are hard to beat. My 2 cents worth - good luck.
re driving in mountainous terrain- I just purchased the 05 crd and have over 2000 miles already. Have taken it over many high altitude passes 11000-13000 ft and it is incredible. Creeps up and over anything you put in front of it.Takes a little getting used to shifting into 4 low etc when you are used to manual, but this little suv is incredible. Good solid ride when 4 wheeling and great when on pavement. This is the first automatic I have owned and I have no reservations so far! Have not driven in snow yet so will see. I think your wife will love driving it to as it is so easy to manuver.
I have been using Rotella Synthetic 5W-40 as that is what the oil change place I go to carries. Oil filter brand unknown. It runs just fine, getting 24-26 mpg up & down the hills.
I am only referring to vehicles the size of the Jeep, having engines comparable to the 3.7L V6 or smaller. The diesels are commonly used outside North America even by people not affected by the cost of fuel. A motorcycle was even produced with a small diesel engine.
Rotella Synthetic is a decent oil. Mobil 1 (which I think that you meant 0W-40, rather than 5W-40) is also good but, in my opinion, over-priced and over-hyped. If you compare the spec sheets on either of the above to the spec sheet on HAVOLINE Synthetic 5W-40, though, I think that you'll find that the HAVOLINE is not only the better oil but also carries a better price. (Unfortunately, I can't find the HAVOLINE locally and get mine UPS'd to me from Parman Lubricants in Nashville, Tennessee. Even with the shipping fee the price is competitive, since it's coming directly from a distributor.) My second choice would be Ursa TDX Premium Synthetic 5W-40.
I get 20 - 21 in mixed city/highway (60/40). On open road highway I regularly exceed 29 mpg. It is on the highway where I will exceed the EPA rating. Sorry I did not make that clear earlier.
I may not be posting this in the right place... I want to protect the front of my jeep before the snowplows start throwing sand (actually small boulders) out. Is the 3M product a good choice? Or what would you all recommend?
CE, CF and CI-4 are API service classifications. The SAE assigns viscosity grades. You really need to look at more specs than just those which you site before making any decisions. You should remember, too, that AMSOIL products have traditionally been synthesized from plant matter, which (at least in the case of biofuels) carries a caveat regarding possible spoilage.
Diesel fuel and gasoline made from petroleum also have a finite shelf life. Gasoline must have treatment added if it is stored for more than 30 days. You can grow bacteria and algae in diesel fuel, be it petroleum or biomass based. Diesel fuel requires treatment for this.
As for the data I presented, it was data that was common to all three products. I have used Amsoil for years without any kind of spoilage. I have used Amsoil chassis grease that was a few years old and it worked fine. I have used their transmission fluids and they performed much better over 30+K miles than the standard fluid from the manufacturer.
I think that all lubricants have a finite life, no matter what the source.
Entirely possible. Having never used AMSOIL products, I probably shouldn't speculate.
What have been your findings regarding fuel? Have you noticed any differences in performance and/or MPG with any particular brand (assuming, of course, that you're actually getting the brand indicated by the sign out front)? I don't know if there is as much difference in the proprietary additive packages in fuel as there is in gasoline. (Both, of course, are considered "fungible" commodities and the difference(s) occur at the rack.)
As for fuel, I have found that higher cetane yields a quieter engine with less vibration and a bit more power. I generally use Shell diesel because it has a cetane of 45 right out of the pump. I will add cetane improver to raise the cetane to 50+, especially on a long trip. The gain is about 1.5 mpg. Also, higher cetane fuel makes it easier for a diesel to start and you get less smoke.
As to additive packages, I add a cetane improver and a product to pull the moisture from the fuel. No moisture = no algae or bacteria growing in the fuel.
I have tried 5 - 10% biodiesel blend several times. Performance wise, this is the best way to make a marked difference. It is the best cetane improver I know but it is not located near to where I live, so I use it infrequently, unfortunately.
I want to make comment about the oil issue you brought up. I am not trying to pan Mobil . It is a good oil, but the problem with the 0W-40 is two-fold. Mobil uses a fair amount of viscosity improvers in their oil, something that breaks down quickly. Next, the API rating goes as far as CF. This may be adequate in europe where ULS diesel is readily available. Amsoil has an API rating as high as CI-4. Also, the TBN is > 12 while Mobil does not publish that number. Considering that ULS diesel will not be available nationwide until sometime in 2006, I want the extra detergency and neutralizing power that Amsoil provides.
Problem is that the oil required for the CRD is SAE 0W-40 Synthetic Engine Oil that meets categories SL and CF (SL/CF) or better and the requirements of DaimlerChrysler Material Standard MS-10725. If you cannot find SAE 0W-40, then SAE 5W-40 Synthetic Engine Oil is acceptable. Lubricants which do not have both, the engine oil certification mark and the correct SAE viscosity grade number should not be used. This is from the 2006 owners manual. Note that Mobil 1 is no longer mentioned as it was in the 2005 manual.
Amsoil 5W-40 Synthetic does not have the API certification mark. Why? It is not API certified. It does not meet the warranty requirements. The specs on the Amsoil are not the problem. The problem is that for whatever reason, Amsoil either chooses not to or can not meet the API certification.
You can use any oil you want, heck use olive oil (just kidding), however, I will use an oil that has the API certification mark.
Regarding the Mobil 1 0W-40, my personal opinion is that Mobil 1 Delvac 5W-40 is a better oil for a diesel and it is rated API CI-4 PLUS/CI-4/CH-4/CG-4/CF-4/CF/SL/SJ.
I'll most likely be using Rotella in my CRD after the dealer free oil changes are over.
The towing book maybe the only placed it is written, however IT IS written and written by DC soooooooooo if I have trouble between 70,000 and 100,000 with the engine, you don't think I will argue the point! May take some arm twisting and a trip to the mediator but IT IS written. Best Regards
Ain't that handy! I could have looked for a week and not found it. Manual says zip-tied to a heater hose! Where can you route that to the exterior of the engine compartment?
I come here from Fred's TDI Forum. Having sold the VW, I bought a Liberty. Can't seem to live w/o diesel! Anyway, there is much discussion over there about oils and ratings, complete with some rather extensive scientific testing. You can go wade through that, if you'd like. Last I heard, the Mobil 1 Truck and SUV oil is supposed to be Delvac 1. It's available at Wal-Mart for about $20 for a 5-quart jug.
How do you know that it does not meet API standards? Not having the API doughnut on your product does not automatically mean that it does not meet API specs. Amsoil chooses not to pay the outrageous fee API wants so they can have the privilege of displaying the API doughnut. API standards are available to the public and testing can be done by any good independent lab for less money to show that a product meets or exceeds API standards. API and SAE are political arms of their respective industries.
Amsoil has in writing that if there products ruin an engine, trans, etc., they will pay to have it fixed. If a dealer or manufacturer voids a warranty or portion of it because you use Amsoil, they are violating the law.
If you read what you copied from the 2006 manual, it states should not be used. It does not say cannot be used.
Many people would rather not give Jeep an excuse to void their warranty and then have to chase after Amsoil. You have to wonder about their business model too; beside the MLM aspect of it, are they really selling oil, laundry detergent, multivitamins or water filters? (link)
Exxon has Mobile travel guides and convenience stores, but they are by and large an oil company with lots of lubrication experience (link).
Amsoil has in writing that if there products ruin an engine, trans, etc., they will pay to have it fixed. If a dealer or manufacturer voids a warranty or portion of it because you use Amsoil, they are violating the law. Your Limited New Vehicle Warranty will not cover engine damage caused by using the wrong engine oil. The law is most certainly not being broken by requiring a vehicle to have correct maintenance during the warranty period. This is why you would write a check for an engine if damage is due to incorrect oil. Use Amsoil in the CRD at your own risk.
Amsoil is the wrong oil.
There must be a oil forum if you wish to discuss this further.
And FYI I never said Amsoil does not meet API standards, I said that it does not meet the oil requirements of the CRD to have an API oil.
Why would anyone purposely choose to knowingly use an oil that does not have required certification when there are easily obtained oils that are similar or less cost that do have the required certifications? It is irrational.
I agree, I'm leery of anything that must be purchased through obscure channels in order to be used. I've had race cars and have a 1971 Charger, never went wrong with any Valvoline products. I agree with the Host, that an oil company that only concentrates on one thing will be better then a company with their hands in other business models. My uncle has a 2005 F250 with the Power Stroke and he just put the Valvoline Blue in at about 1,000 miles ago and says he can feel a difference and that his gas mileage has increased slightly. This could also be the placebo effect or the possibility that his new truck now has a little over 6,000 miles on it and the engine is breaking in. To answer another post with regards to engine break in, just run the damn thing. His last van had over 350K miles on it and it was never "broken in" like some people think. Same with my cars and the race cars, just got in, turned the key, warmed up a little bit and to the floor the pedal went. Never had a mechanical problem inside the engine do to this.
I am not an Amsoil dealer. I do know that they have had synthetic oil for cars and trucks on the market since 1972, years before Mobil 1 came onto the market. I am sure they have learned a few things in 33 years.
As to putting my warranty at risk, I do not think so. The onus is on the dealer/manufacturer to prove that the lubricant caused the failure. No where in my manual or what has been quoted here does it say that I must absolutely use something. The statements are not absolute statements, they are recommendations and nothing else.
As to what other items Amsoil or Mobil/Exxon sell and how they sell is totally irrelevant to this discussion.
Don't mind me - hosts have as many opinions as every other member, and mine aren't any more valid than yours. I don't believe that Mobile1 or any other synthetic is worth the additional expense for the typical automobile. :-)
But yes, please continue the oil wars in one of the discussions I linked above.
Oh, and SEMA has a good link about your rights when you use aftermarket or non-OEM products on your car.
Thanks for sending me to SEMA. Very good information there. Using Amsoil will not void my warranty according to what I read there.
As to not liking synthetic oil, I can see your point of view. For many applications it is really not needed as long as you do regular care on the car/truck. In the case of my CRD and other certain models, there is no choice. In any event, I would use them. I have found they do a better job than regular motor oil under high heat and stress conditions.
I haven't done this yet. I purchased a six foot extension cord and plan on running the extension cord around the perimeter of the engine compartment, with the mail end extending through the front grill. I don't think that the attached block heat cord is long enough to do even a straight shot out. I would love to find out why the manufacturer did not put enough slack in the OEM cord.
Both my cars have block heaters. The heater cords are both just long enough to just hang out of the hood by the radiator, and they are zip-tied to the radiator.
Besides the cost of copper, I suspect that the manufacturer doesn't want a lot of loose ends in the engine compartment near the fan belts and other moving parts.
It's hard to believe that your heater cord won't reach long enough so that you can plug it in without opening the hood; sounds like dumb planning on some engineer's (or bean-counter's) part.
Hi! I live in the northern part of Maryland and have been driving diesel cars since 1968. I have never had a heater or a heated garage, You do need to be watchful of fuel gelling though. good luck! LK
What do you do if your fuel gels while parked for hours (say at work)? I work at a ski resort where temps can get low at the end of the day. being new to diesel I'm not sure what emp it gels at and what happens when it does. Is there any remedy so you can get started and drive home? :confuse:
911 If you have a gelling issue, there are products to solve it.
I have had my diesel outside (no garage) in 50 below F without a gelling problem. I have a garage now, however, even if I did not, I would not be concerned about gelling.
There is anti-gel additive in diesel fuel at the pump. For those who desire added insurance, anti-gel additives can be added to your tank.
Yep. Got in the habit of adding Stanadyne Performance Formula to every tank of fuel when I had a VW TDI Beetle. Lowers gel point to -40 and boosts cetane. I buy the one-shot bottles, and save some to fill up from the 1/2 gallon jug when I travel. Power Service's new formula also boosts cetane, and is probably easier to get than Stanadyne, which is VW's TSR'd additive. Never had a heater on the NB, and it sat outside quite often. I did have an engine block heater on a '72 Olds Cutlass gasser. Loved the instant heat in the winter!
Comments
http://www-sop.inria.fr/sinus/Images/Images/anim2.html
On the common rail system the combustion bowl is part of the piston itself. You can see it here:
http://www.americanenergyindependence.com/sonex.html
The statements you're making still make no sense...simply because it's impossible to calibrate two different engines exactly the same. If you put a gasser in neutral and give it just a bit of throttle (say 5%), it will not go bouncing off the rev limiter; it will increase in RPMs slightly. A diesel will do the exact same thing. They behave identically. There is no difference. Common sense and any driving experience will tell you that a gas engine doesn't reach "max rpm" at all throttle apertures, nor does a diesel. Assuming constant load, both gas and diesel engines increase RPM with increased throttle position.
As for your comments regarding moutain driving, because a diesel lacks a throttle butterfly to control airflow, they are actually far less efficient at engine braking than a gasoline engine. The only advantage of the diesel is that it: 1) doesn't build the potentially damaging high vacuum of a gasser straining to suck air against a closed butterfly; and, 2) has higher compression which helps to offset the loss of engine braking efficiency caused by its open access to outside air. The relative inefficiency of diesels in engine braking is why so many large Over the Road diesels use exhaust, jake, or other forms of accessory engine brakes.
I'm going to bow out of this one, as it makes no sense to continue the dispute. If you'd like the last word, that's fine. I just hope it makes a bit more sense.
I have heard about the filter not being the best for the diesel so I will try going back to stock for a few tanks and see if there is a diff.
You say you generally exceed the EPA highway rating by 2-4 mpg? Yet you only get 20-21 ? I thought we were supposed to get 24-28 mpg?
I'm really considering the performance modual "DR PERFORMANCE Pred For 2005-06 Jeep Liberty Diesel
GAIN AN AMAZING 60 HP !! BETTER FUEL ECONOMY !!" Anyone tried these yet?
Thanks again
I will try the tranny oil change and the previously mentioned air filter.
The tires may cost me more than I'd save over 3 years but I will shop around in the spring as we are heading into the Fall/winter months and I'll be wanting to uses these lugs (even with the Diesel at $3.39 a gallon in Fenton,Michigan this morning)
Thanks again.
dacur
Just put a plastic trash bag under your Libby with lots of paper towels to catch the spill off of diesel and water that are in the filter.
MAKE SURE YOU UNPLUG THE WIRE HARNESS ON THE BOTTOM OF THE FILTER........if not you will end up twisting the wires off when you go to unscrew the filter. Unplug the harnesses and take off the fuel hose (small metal clamp holds it on ) then unscrew like an oil filter. It is a tight fit so wear some gloves or lose some skin. It took a few minutes of slow dripping to really drain it out.
They recommend emptying/changing it every 6K miles (I think....my manual is outside and I'm a 3rd shifter going to bed in 10 sec's)
Hope that was helpful
I just went through the same process of buying a Jeep last week and bought mine on Oct 1, 2005. I wrestled with the 2005 vs 2006 issue as well as prices and options. I ended up getting a 2005 because it was a better deal with incentives and it has a better warranty. The 05 has a 7/70 drive train warranty which Jeep dropped on the 06. I was able to get an 05 Sport (automatic) in the color I want with towing package and few other little things for $22,600. The best price I could find on an 06 Sport was $25,300. Go to E-bay and check out the ones they have there. There are two dealers in NC ( Steve White and Empire) which slash the prices by giving all incentives, plus the discount 1/2 of hold back and don't charge for "processing". Their deals are very hard to beat. They also deliver at a very reasonable rate. The othe dealer I found that was competitive was Quinn Jeep in West Point, VA outside Richmond. Not quite as good a deal as the two NC dealers but there was no delivery involved for me. So far I love my CRD and got 28.8 mpg on the highway for the first 125 miles - not bad. My mixed mountain driving is coming in around 22 mpg. Go to ebay and check out the deals - then call these guys - the deals are hard to beat.
My 2 cents worth - good luck.
Have not driven in snow yet so will see. I think your wife will love driving it to as it is so easy to manuver.
Thanks, :confuse:
Thanks
Ace
Filter - Wix 51516
Oil- Rotella T Synthetic 5W-40 or Mobil 1 Synthetic 5W-40
Any feedback on the above choices?
http://www.valvoline.com/premiumblue/
I want to protect the front of my jeep before the snowplows start throwing sand (actually small boulders) out. Is the 3M product a good choice? Or what would you all recommend?
Steve, Host
I went to both websites and here is what I came up with.
Amsoil 5W-40 Mobil 1 0W-40 Mobil1 5W-40
ASTM D-445
@ 40 C - 83.6 80 102
@ 100 C - 14.5 14.3 14.8
ASTM D-2270
Viscosity Index - 182 187 151
Pour Point (Cel) - -51 -54 -45
Flash Point (Cel) 232 236 226
SAE Ratings CF, CI-4 CE, CF CF - CI-4
These are all of the common values I could find. I only included the compression ignition SAE ratings since we are discussing diesel here.
To be frank with you, I see only slight differences in the products. It is as good as the recommended oil and has superior detergency to the 0W-40.
As for the data I presented, it was data that was common to all three products. I have used Amsoil for years without any kind of spoilage. I have used Amsoil chassis grease that was a few years old and it worked fine. I have used their transmission fluids and they performed much better over 30+K miles than the standard fluid from the manufacturer.
I think that all lubricants have a finite life, no matter what the source.
What have been your findings regarding fuel? Have you noticed any differences in performance and/or MPG with any particular brand (assuming, of course, that you're actually getting the brand indicated by the sign out front)? I don't know if there is as much difference in the proprietary additive packages in fuel as there is in gasoline. (Both, of course, are considered "fungible" commodities and the difference(s) occur at the rack.)
As to additive packages, I add a cetane improver and a product to pull the moisture from the fuel. No moisture = no algae or bacteria growing in the fuel.
I have tried 5 - 10% biodiesel blend several times. Performance wise, this is the best way to make a marked difference. It is the best cetane improver I know but it is not located near to where I live, so I use it infrequently, unfortunately.
I want to make comment about the oil issue you brought up. I am not trying to pan Mobil . It is a good oil, but the problem with the 0W-40 is two-fold. Mobil uses a fair amount of viscosity improvers in their oil, something that breaks down quickly. Next, the API rating goes as far as CF. This may be adequate in europe where ULS diesel is readily available. Amsoil has an API rating as high as CI-4. Also, the TBN is > 12 while Mobil does not publish that number. Considering that ULS diesel will not be available nationwide until sometime in 2006, I want the extra detergency and neutralizing power that Amsoil provides.
Amsoil 5W-40 Synthetic does not have the API certification mark. Why? It is not API certified. It does not meet the warranty requirements. The specs on the Amsoil are not the problem. The problem is that for whatever reason, Amsoil either chooses not to or can not meet the API certification.
You can use any oil you want, heck use olive oil (just kidding), however, I will use an oil that has the API certification mark.
Regarding the Mobil 1 0W-40, my personal opinion is that Mobil 1 Delvac 5W-40 is a better oil for a diesel and it is rated API CI-4 PLUS/CI-4/CH-4/CG-4/CF-4/CF/SL/SJ.
I'll most likely be using Rotella in my CRD after the dealer free oil changes are over.
Amsoil has in writing that if there products ruin an engine, trans, etc., they will pay to have it fixed. If a dealer or manufacturer voids a warranty or portion of it because you use Amsoil, they are violating the law.
If you read what you copied from the 2006 manual, it states should not be used. It does not say cannot be used.
Exxon has Mobile travel guides and convenience stores, but they are by and large an oil company with lots of lubrication experience (link).
You guys should take this to either the Engine Oil - A slippery subject Part 2 or the Synthetic motor oil discussion so we can get back to the Liberty in here.
Steve, Host
Your Limited New Vehicle Warranty will not cover engine damage caused by using the wrong engine oil. The law is most certainly not being broken by requiring a vehicle to have correct maintenance during the warranty period. This is why you would write a check for an engine if damage is due to incorrect oil. Use Amsoil in the CRD at your own risk.
Amsoil is the wrong oil.
There must be a oil forum if you wish to discuss this further.
And FYI I never said Amsoil does not meet API standards, I said that it does not meet the oil requirements of the CRD to have an API oil.
Why would anyone purposely choose to knowingly use an oil that does not have required certification when there are easily obtained oils that are similar or less cost that do have the required certifications? It is irrational.
To answer another post with regards to engine break in, just run the damn thing. His last van had over 350K miles on it and it was never "broken in" like some people think. Same with my cars and the race cars, just got in, turned the key, warmed up a little bit and to the floor the pedal went. Never had a mechanical problem inside the engine do to this.
I am not an Amsoil dealer. I do know that they have had synthetic oil for cars and trucks on the market since 1972, years before Mobil 1 came onto the market. I am sure they have learned a few things in 33 years.
As to putting my warranty at risk, I do not think so. The onus is on the dealer/manufacturer to prove that the lubricant caused the failure. No where in my manual or what has been quoted here does it say that I must absolutely use something. The statements are not absolute statements, they are recommendations and nothing else.
As to what other items Amsoil or Mobil/Exxon sell and how they sell is totally irrelevant to this discussion.
I have no more to say about this!!!
But yes, please continue the oil wars in one of the discussions I linked above.
Oh, and SEMA has a good link about your rights when you use aftermarket or non-OEM products on your car.
Steve, Host
As to not liking synthetic oil, I can see your point of view. For many applications it is really not needed as long as you do regular care on the car/truck. In the case of my CRD and other certain models, there is no choice. In any event, I would use them. I have found they do a better job than regular motor oil under high heat and stress conditions.
Besides the cost of copper, I suspect that the manufacturer doesn't want a lot of loose ends in the engine compartment near the fan belts and other moving parts.
It's hard to believe that your heater cord won't reach long enough so that you can plug it in without opening the hood; sounds like dumb planning on some engineer's (or bean-counter's) part.
Steve, Host
If you have a gelling issue, there are products to solve it.
I have had my diesel outside (no garage) in 50 below F without a gelling problem.
I have a garage now, however, even if I did not, I would not be concerned about gelling.
There is anti-gel additive in diesel fuel at the pump. For those who desire added insurance, anti-gel additives can be added to your tank.