Just got back from a trip of just over 1000 miles and got 25.2MPG at 72 MPH and got 28.1MPG cruising at 60. Consumer Reports got it wrong this time, really wrong. Now I have 5230 miles reading on the odometer. I have been using Power Serices Diesel-Kleen + Cetane Booster 16 oz. with each fill up. May have something to do with it. It performed flawlessly.
Actually, there is fuel for this engine in this country. 40 cetane fuel is available just about anywhere and the owners manual states that this is the minimum cetane for the engine. The manual also states that this engine should be fed ULSD. The problem is that the diesel fuel in this country is so marginal, save for the ARCO EC-1 fuel in CA, that I am not surprised that CRD owners are having as much trouble as they are. Diesel fuel is considered an industrial fuel in the U.S. and as long as the refiners are more concerned about keeping their investors happy than the people who buy their product happy, drivers/owners of LDD engines will have issues. ULSD should be available in 2006.
Higher cetane contributes big time to a cleaner and more complete burn of the fuel and better performance when cold. In turn, this would yield fewer EGR and other performance issues.
In some small way I agree with your statement about selling engines here when the correct fuel is not available yet.
I would have to disagree with your statement. There are plenty of posts where CRD owners are getting fewer mpgs than most. I see a little bias, but not like what is found with CR or others.
Does anyone recall just what the procedure is to run the on-board diagnostics doobisary? I do recall seeing an earlier post on the subject but can't seem to find it now. It sounded like a pretty simple procedure (meaning that I should be able to handle it!)
Is anyone familiar with the use of pure vegetable oil as described in www.dieselsecret.com ? It claims you can easily make your own fuel for .46 per gallon. It will run you car or oil fired heater. Sounds too good to be true. I'm sure someone on this board must know about this..... :confuse:
It claims you can easily make your own fuel for .46 per gallon.
You will have to get your hands a bit dirty. You or someone else has to go and collect the old cooking oil from restaurants. Then using a fairly simple chemical process you have biodiesel that will run just fine in your CRD. I think with the price of diesel going up the supply of used cooking oil will become in short supply. You should get your route scoped out soon. If someone else does all the work you are back to 3 bucks a gallon. Good luck.
SVO or Straight Vegetable Oil used as diesel fuel is typically used in older IDI Indirect Injection diesels. SVO does NOT involve waste oil, at least not that I'm aware of since it is difficult to properly filter the waste vegetable oil. SVO is not a viable option for the CRD IMO. Biodiesel is OK for the CRD. If you use anything other than commercial grade biodiesel, make certain that you are fully educated what quality biodiesel is.
Has anyone had an issue with the glow plug harness on their CRD. I went to a dealer last week with the engine light on again this time glow plug #3 showing up as the issue. The dealer ordered the plug and found the same problem which turned out being a wiring harness with a greater resistance on one of the wires leading to the glow plug..The first dealer I went to said he replaced the harness and found out afterwards that never happened.. :sick:
I believe there were some postings a while back from someone who had problems with crossed wires to the glow plugs (i.e. # 2 wire to # 4 plug, etc). He had gotten a CEL code regarding failing glows, or excessive overheat on plugs. I don't remember, but maybe you can search
In Western Europe we cannot use anything above a B5 diesel but the CZECH REPUBLIC was granted tax reductions for B30 by the European government in 2004.
It's quite confusing because Bosch parts are used everywhere. I doubt we all use different seals :confuse:
Yes I have, A while ago I started hearing a pinging sound and had the dealer look into it. They could not find anything. Two days later the cel came on and found #2 and #3 glow plugs bad. Replaced glow plugs and cleared cel .Still have fuel pinging sound. Returned to new dealer found harness wiring incorrect and more bad glow plugs. I still have the same pinging sound have returned it to the original dealer with the same answer"we don"t hear anything abnormal". Also notice loss of power in overdrive and poorer fuel economy.
I've had my CRD since the end of June and have just over 4,500 miles on it. My coolant light was also staying on for about 3 minutes after starting, and my mileage was dropping by about 1 mile per gallon per resent fill-ups to below 18mpg. I took it in and, yes, it needed a new EGR valve. They also found that the coolant reservoir had a crack in it and I was loosing coolant. The service rep said that the failing EGR valve may have caused the coolant reservoir to crack, but others on this forum have expressed their concerns about a possible correlation between the two. Any way, both the EGR valve and the coolant tank were replaced free of charge because they are covered under warranty. I only got my vehicle back last evening, so I don't know about the mpg's. It does run a lot smoother, and I don't see any smoke from the tail pipe upon heavy acceleration any more.
My advise to you.........GET YOUR VEHICLE IN FOR SERVICE ASAP!
I'm having a similar problem with my 05 CRD 7,000 miles. When the vehicle needs to shift down (going up hills or passing, etc.) it kicks out of overdrive and goes from 2000 RPM's to over 3000. What's worse is that the overdrive won't come back until I pull over, & restart the car ... hmm, any ideas? This all happens well after warm up, sometimes an hour after freeway driving.
If it is a pre-May 2005 build, you may need a software update. I never ran into that problem and my CRD was built on 05/02/2005. I did have a software flash at about 586 miles but do not recall the TSB number. My CRD went into limp-in mode and any attempt to take it over 20 mph caused it to die.
If it is a hardware issue, then the dealer may need to get into the trans. Sounds like something could be sticking.
When going down a dip, the trans drops drwn as it should. However as soon as the dip changes to climb the cruse drops off. The dealer has checkes it twice and even contacted "star" and nothing has inproved. Star told them put in a new trans filter, and that did not help. ANY SUGGESTIONS?
I think that the light just came on. It suddenly occurred to me that we might be talking apples and oranges when it comes to monitoring "highway" fuel mileage. Those of you who have been reporting 27+ mpg highway are getting up to highway speed, setting the "cruise", and then hitting the "reset" on the computer while in motion (thus yielding purely highway mpg) - am I right? Being as thick in the head as a hog is in the a.., I have been filling up, re-setting the computer (at a dead stop), and then monitoring the mpg from fill-up to fill-up (which would, of course, include acceleration, sitting in stopped traffic, etc.). Maybe I owe my CRD an apology!
Those of you who have been reporting 27+ mpg highway are getting up to highway speed, setting the "cruise", and then hitting the "reset" on the computer while in motion (thus yielding purely highway mpg) - am I right?
No. My mpg is computed using miles driven and total fuel plus additve added. This is the only true measure. Mostly highway (two lane rural with towns and stoplights included) I can obtain 27 mpg per complete tank including stops and starts. I've had as low as 19 mpg and as high as 24 mpg in mostly city driving.
The 19 mpg tank is my most recently completed tank. I'm pretty sure my EGR is failing and I'm going to have the CRD in for service w/in a week. The darn thing has nearly stalled twice.
I do not trust the mpg display and I have had it read as high as 91 mpg while resetting it going down hill.
The 19 mpg tank is my most recently completed tank. I'm pretty sure my EGR is failing and I'm going to have the CRD in for service w/in a week. The darn thing has nearly stalled twice.
Moparbad! How many miles do you have on the vehicle? I'm pushing 12K miles now. I wonder if I'll be getting these EGR problems that seem to plague so many on this site. So far the vehicle runs fine and dandy.
I had read of others doing the re-set at highway speeds and find it fun to compare with. I still calculate the average at fill up. Leaving the computer alone, comes real close. Today, testing an additive on a 15 mi strip into traverse city, I got 31 mpg after setting it on I 72. However due to bitter cold and city driving it finally came down to 23 which is close to my average at fill up, this with about 3000 mi. I hauled a large boat out of our valley, and came in at 15 mpg with mostly up hills. The additive seems to work great for highway, but not for city yet. Still testing however.
Indian, I do it the same way you do and have been getting 26-28.5 on the highway. On my daily commute (mostly rural hilly roads and a 4000 foot mountain climb at 8% grade for 54 miles) I get 22-24 mpg. I have a 05 sport with 3500 miles on it. Build date 7/05. I get this mileage even after letting my turbo cool down for 2-5 minutes each time I run it. I put power service cetane booster in each tank ( I don't measure it I just dump some in - aiming for about 5 ozs).
I am convinced with these beasts, it is all in the way you drive it. Unless there is a mechanical issue, I suspect most people getting the lower mileage are driving them more like a car and not being gentle on the accerlator. There tankfuls when I just don't give a crap and I drive it like I used to drive my toyota truck - and I pay for it in mileage. But with diesel at $2.35, I'm not all that worried about super high mpg right now.
Was wondering if anyone has the rear air deflector installed on their CRD.
They mix the salt in Molasses in this state and it makes a nice mess on the back end (but it save tax dollars and is environmentally freindly :mad: :confuse: ). If any one you have any experience with this little wing, I would like some feedback.
If you installed it yourself, I am REALLY interested...and cheap. Happy Thanksgiving.
It looks kind of nifty, but what's the purpose? Don't tell me that Ryan Newman told you that it would make you stick better in the turns. My home-boy Tony ran circles around him, anyway! (And don't even say anything about the Old Oaken Bucket!)
They grow lots of sugar beets around here but I didn't realize there was an application for the desugared beet molasses. That's sort of neat, even if it does make a mess on your back window.
Sounds very simular to my situation. I have 4,900 miles now, and have had the dealer (which is very cooperative) check it out twice. On Nov.28 they are having someone with more knowledge from DC see if they can come up with some other suggestion. If it improves the problem I will let you know.
New2diesel: I have driven gingerly and kept the rpm's down below 2,500 and driven our CRD like I would any other gas Lib. I have added PS cetane booster, and no matter how I drive we get consistant 21 to 22.5 mpg. Once we got 25 mpg but I don't think I filled it all the way up. I have driven on small trips of 120 miles and even at 65 or 55mph it does not seem to make and difference. Our CRD was built in mid-June, and we have a little over4,900 miles. I can't believe that with all the big diesel trucks on the road that just Jeep CRD's need Cetane boosters, and all the special treatment that some feel is required to make the CRD run efficantly. IF the CRD requires all this extra attention.... then it sure don't rate being in a jeep! Either this CRD will run as it should without the extra changing of filters at half the milage of what schedule B says, and without the cetane booster, or it is not much of a diesel engine. When you add the cost of the cetane booster and the cost of fuel and changing filters at (as some has suggested at 3,000 miles) that rate it makes for a mighty expensive hobby, because it sure isn't cheap transpertation. So far as I am concerned this CRD is a 4X4 with a diesel engine and I am not going to treat it any more special than I did my 3.7 Liberty. I feel it ought to be a little cheaper to opperate the CRD than the 3.7, and if it turns out the CRD is not, then I sure feel I was pretty dumb in buying it. I do not think that Jeep would build a tinny diesel that needs to be babied to keep it going. I expect this to be a good tough Jeep product. Don't you?
Mr Mopar .. Sounds like you got some bad fuel... 3 reasons other than mechanical why you wouldn't get better than 25mpg , 1/ Cetane levels vary from gas station to gas station,as production is not consistant in this type of fuel. Try another brand of fuel.Instead of BP ,go to Shell or a regular truck stop,and using powerservice additive is also helpful, or Stanadyne performance plus,fuel stabalizer. 2/ The amount of water content in your fuel will affect mileage.Filling up with an ultra or no.2 once in awhile will help performance.Plus adding the fuel stabalizer. The main cause of this is condensation build up in the storage tanks,as gas stations don't drain their tanks,and also fill your tank up to the top to prevent condensation as well. 3/ has nothing with fuel.. Do you regularly change your oil before any long trip or heavy load?. Using the recommended mobile 1 Synthetic oil? Speak Soon.. Lightnin3...
IF the CRD requires all this extra attention.... then it sure don't rate being in a jeep! Either this CRD will run as it should without the extra changing of filters at half the milage of what schedule B says, and without the cetane booster, or it is not much of a diesel engine. When you add the cost of the cetane booster and the cost of fuel and changing filters at (as some has suggested at 3,000 miles) that rate it makes for a mighty expensive hobby, because it sure isn't cheap transpertation. So far as I am concerned this CRD is a 4X4 with a diesel engine and I am not going to treat it any more special than I did my 3.7 Liberty. I feel it ought to be a little cheaper to opperate the CRD than the 3.7, and if it turns out the CRD is not, then I sure feel I was pretty dumb in buying it.
I agree 100%. I've not put a "stabilizer" into the tank yet and ',knock on wood,' she runs fine. In fact the dealer told me to stay away from adding stuff to the fuel. The dealer told me to just make sure I go to a station that sells a lot of diesel. I bought the Jeep to use and not to treat like a fine violin.
Question: Does that rear air deflector work to keep the crud off of the back window?
Sure. The $0.46/gallon biodiesel is made from worthless used cooking oil. You are forgetting the "used" part in assertions about "vegetable oil", which costs more than diesel at the pump. $3+. The chemical process to convert it may not be so complex, however, doing eveything in the right quantities and testing the brew isn't to be recommended to the innocent. From what I understand, it can run ~FINE~ at the same time it sends your precious Italian CRD engine to a very early demise. Blending in small quantities to your petrodiesel may avoid that. But how will you know until a breakdown?
There are 'machines' for sale that will help produce a higher, more uniform quality fuel from waste cooking oils and its unknown content of byproducts, which result from being used. Remember, they add lots to the price tag and are still not fool proof.
I have posted in much greater detail on this before. Search "Biodiesel" here. I had to run to dinner without elaborating more on the whys. Plus the script and advertisements running within this forum's Web page have slowed my computer to its knees. I mean excruciatingly slow. The situation gets unbearable as far as the investment of time participating.
I live in Minnesota, have about 2500 miles on my CRD. I have also noticed that the rear brakes "groan" in the morning for the first couple hundred feet that I drive it. It always goes away pretty quickly, so I figured that I would have my dealer check it when I brought it in for other service. I have a lot of confidence in my dealer - Maday Motors in New Ulm, MN, so I'll let you know if they have a fix for it.
I've seen several references to the CRD dropping a quart of oil in the first 1000 miles. When I filled my CRD for the first time I checked the oil level (just a habit, always check the oil every time I fill) and found the level low. I talked to my dealer, and the service manager apolgized to me for not having caught it before I took delivery. It seems that Daimler US was misinformed about the oil capacity of the CRD and shipped the 2005's one quart low from the factory. It is something that they are supposed to be aware of now, and it should be caught during dealer prep. My CRD came on a dealer trade and it fell between the cracks. Anyway, has anyone lost a quart of oil that they know of for sure, ie; had they personally checked the oil level to know it was properly topped off and then had it lose a quart in the next 1000 miles?
I have solved the wind buffeting problem! I bought the WeatherTech side window deflectors. They install in the window channels without DSST. Come in your choice of regular gray or dark gray. They allow a fairly generous roll-down and there is no buffeting with any combination of windows open. I got the WeatherTech's on the recommendation of an auto body guy I know. They are expensive, but only took a few minutes to install. Now, I'm looking for a bug/stone front deflector. WeatherTech's will not fit the CRD hood. Neither will one I tried from Autoanything.com. I don't know what's different about the diesel, but if WeatherTech says it's not the same, it's not the same.
When I saw your post, I went out and checked my oil. 2535 miles on the truck and I have not added any oil. It's right on the MAX mark. Good to know the dealership guys are on the ball!
That's one approach. However, the engine is still (despite what Jeep says) made to run ULSD. And, unlike octane, where more isn't always better, more cetane is ALWAYS better. If you can't get it at the pump, you have to supplement. The additives also work to move water through the system, improve upper cylinder lubrication, and keep the fuel from "gellin' like a felon". I'm often sceptical of dealer advice, especially since there are, what, only 8000+ of these trucks in NA? I learned a lot about new diesel engines from my experience with VW :lemon: , and the most important thing was to ask the man who owns one. That's what this forum is about, non, mes amis?
I believe what your saying.If you want to know about diesels ask the the guys who owned them,and service them. I have this friend of mine who has a Dodge Ram diesel ,and she gelled up last winter at the fuel filter and ruined his fuel pump which was an expensive part to buy . So he now uses an anti gell additive for lubricity , wax dispersant. It just has to happen once then you learn about fuels.
It is a small price to pay ,for maintenance. It could be a gasser ,and have to give a tune ups,fuel injector cleaner,and gas line anti freeze for winter gas, every 2 years,which to me is the same cost.
There is no such thing as a maintenance free vehicle. But like most jeeps this one will last 600,000 miles,if you take care of it.
here is a web site to check out.. search "service tips for diesel fuel injection" or "blue ridge diesel injection". peace .. Lightnin3...
That statement would be wise to follow. I did not think it was all that critical. I will do more research before I run any biofuels in my car or new motorhome. It just seems like a great idea to grow fuel. Or use all that waste oil from Burger King.
doing eveything in the right quantities and testing the brew isn't to be recommended to the innocent.
We are in full agreement. I may have been a little too excited about the possibilities and ignoring the negatives. I have not tried biodiesel in my car. I have only used BP ULSD for the 6100 miles. More research is needed. That would be my recommendation for anyone thinking of using alternative diesel fuels.
I asked around and no one else is complaining about forum speed. You may want to try running some spyware or adware programs and see if that helps your bogging down.
Or maybe you are running a proxy and that's causing some other side effects. We'll be happy to look deeper if you want to give us more info on your browser and operating system.
Farout, You can drive your jeep anyway you want - it is your jeep and your money. In my opinion, I don't drive my jeep hard just because it is a Jeep. I drive it hard if I am off road and I want to or the situation calls for it. Unlike you, i don't have that much confidence in jeep products. They break down more than many of the other japanese 4x4's and require more maintence. If you really want an offroad vehicle that can take a punishemnt and performs well, go buy a toyota. I've had many and never had a problem. i bought this vehicle becuse I needed a true 4x4 on occassion but couldn't live with the toyota gas mileage. So for my money, I will drive it conservatively, save money, and hope it holds up as well as my previous Japanese vehicles.
Comments
Now I have 5230 miles reading on the odometer. I have been using Power Serices Diesel-Kleen + Cetane Booster 16 oz. with each fill up. May have something to do with it. It performed flawlessly.
I suspect that those who get better gas mileage are more likely to post them than those who don't do so well. It's the classic sample bias problem.
tidester, host
Higher cetane contributes big time to a cleaner and more complete burn of the fuel and better performance when cold. In turn, this would yield fewer EGR and other performance issues.
In some small way I agree with your statement about selling engines here when the correct fuel is not available yet.
thanks
You will have to get your hands a bit dirty. You or someone else has to go and collect the old cooking oil from restaurants. Then using a fairly simple chemical process you have biodiesel that will run just fine in your CRD. I think with the price of diesel going up the supply of used cooking oil will become in short supply. You should get your route scoped out soon. If someone else does all the work you are back to 3 bucks a gallon. Good luck.
SVO does NOT involve waste oil, at least not that I'm aware of since it is difficult to properly filter the waste vegetable oil.
SVO is not a viable option for the CRD IMO.
Biodiesel is OK for the CRD. If you use anything other than commercial grade biodiesel, make certain that you are fully educated what quality biodiesel is.
If you want to do some reading about SVO system Elsbett
http://www.arb.ca.gov/fuels/diesel/092904biodsl_bosch.pdf
In Western Europe we cannot use anything above a B5 diesel but the CZECH REPUBLIC was granted tax reductions for B30 by the European government in 2004.
It's quite confusing because Bosch parts are used everywhere. I doubt we all use different seals :confuse:
My advise to you.........GET YOUR VEHICLE IN FOR SERVICE ASAP!
If it is a hardware issue, then the dealer may need to get into the trans. Sounds like something could be sticking.
FAROUT
No. My mpg is computed using miles driven and total fuel plus additve added. This is the only true measure. Mostly highway (two lane rural with towns and stoplights included) I can obtain 27 mpg per complete tank including stops and starts. I've had as low as 19 mpg and as high as 24 mpg in mostly city driving.
The 19 mpg tank is my most recently completed tank. I'm pretty sure my EGR is failing and I'm going to have the CRD in for service w/in a week. The darn thing has nearly stalled twice.
I do not trust the mpg display and I have had it read as high as 91 mpg while resetting it going down hill.
Moparbad! How many miles do you have on the vehicle? I'm pushing 12K miles now. I wonder if I'll be getting these EGR problems that seem to plague so many on this site. So far the vehicle runs fine and dandy.
I do it the same way you do and have been getting 26-28.5 on the highway. On my daily commute (mostly rural hilly roads and a 4000 foot mountain climb at 8% grade for 54 miles) I get 22-24 mpg. I have a 05 sport with 3500 miles on it. Build date 7/05. I get this mileage even after letting my turbo cool down for 2-5 minutes each time I run it. I put power service cetane booster in each tank ( I don't measure it I just dump some in - aiming for about 5 ozs).
I am convinced with these beasts, it is all in the way you drive it. Unless there is a mechanical issue, I suspect most people getting the lower mileage are driving them more like a car and not being gentle on the accerlator. There tankfuls when I just don't give a crap and I drive it like I used to drive my toyota truck - and I pay for it in mileage. But with diesel at $2.35, I'm not all that worried about super high mpg right now.
Was wondering if anyone has the rear air deflector installed on their CRD.
They mix the salt in Molasses in this state and it makes a nice mess on the back end (but it save tax dollars and is environmentally freindly
If you installed it yourself, I am REALLY interested...and cheap.
Happy Thanksgiving.
It looks kind of nifty, but what's the purpose? Don't tell me that Ryan Newman told you that it would make you stick better in the turns. My home-boy Tony ran circles around him, anyway! (And don't even say anything about the Old Oaken Bucket!)
Happy Holidays.
- Indian
They grow lots of sugar beets around here but I didn't realize there was an application for the desugared beet molasses. That's sort of neat, even if it does make a mess on your back window.
Steve, Host
"Then, using a fairly simple chemical process you have biodiesel that will run just fine in your CRD"
There are just so many things wrong with this post! Where do I begin? Be very afraid of Internet info.
Farout
Farout
Sounds like you got some bad fuel...
3 reasons other than mechanical why you wouldn't get better than 25mpg ,
1/
Cetane levels vary from gas station to gas station,as production is not consistant in this type of fuel.
Try another brand of fuel.Instead of BP ,go to Shell or a regular truck stop,and using powerservice additive is also helpful, or Stanadyne performance plus,fuel stabalizer.
2/
The amount of water content in your fuel will affect mileage.Filling up with an ultra or no.2 once in awhile will help performance.Plus adding the fuel stabalizer.
The main cause of this is condensation build up in the storage tanks,as gas stations don't drain their tanks,and also fill your tank up to the top to prevent condensation as well.
3/ has nothing with fuel..
Do you regularly change your oil before any long trip or heavy load?.
Using the recommended mobile 1 Synthetic oil?
Speak Soon..
Lightnin3...
Maybe you should enlighten us on the downside of using cooking oil that has been processed into biodiesel. It is widely used across the country.
http://www.biodiesel.com/
http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/story?id=33060
http://www.ufop.de/downloads/FAME_Statement_June_2004.pdf
I agree 100%. I've not put a "stabilizer" into the tank yet and ',knock on wood,' she runs fine. In fact the dealer told me to stay away from adding stuff to the fuel. The dealer told me to just make sure I go to a station that sells a lot of diesel. I bought the Jeep to use and not to treat like a fine violin.
Question: Does that rear air deflector work to keep the crud off of the back window?
There are 'machines' for sale that will help produce a higher, more uniform quality fuel from waste cooking oils and its unknown content of byproducts, which result from being used. Remember, they add lots to the price tag and are still not fool proof.
I have posted in much greater detail on this before. Search "Biodiesel" here. I had to run to dinner without elaborating more on the whys. Plus the script and advertisements running within this forum's Web page have slowed my computer to its knees. I mean excruciatingly slow. The situation gets unbearable as far as the investment of time participating.
I have this friend of mine who has a Dodge Ram diesel ,and she gelled up last winter at the fuel filter and ruined his fuel pump which was an expensive part to buy .
So he now uses an anti gell additive for lubricity , wax dispersant.
It just has to happen once then you learn about fuels.
It is a small price to pay ,for maintenance.
It could be a gasser ,and have to give a tune ups,fuel injector cleaner,and gas line anti freeze for winter gas, every 2 years,which to me is the same cost.
There is no such thing as a maintenance free vehicle.
But like most jeeps this one will last 600,000 miles,if you take care of it.
here is a web site to check out..
search "service tips for diesel fuel injection"
or "blue ridge diesel injection".
peace ..
Lightnin3...
We are in full agreement. I may have been a little too excited about the possibilities and ignoring the negatives. I have not tried biodiesel in my car. I have only used BP ULSD for the 6100 miles. More research is needed. That would be my recommendation for anyone thinking of using alternative diesel fuels.
Or maybe you are running a proxy and that's causing some other side effects. We'll be happy to look deeper if you want to give us more info on your browser and operating system.
Steve, Host
You can drive your jeep anyway you want - it is your jeep and your money. In my opinion, I don't drive my jeep hard just because it is a Jeep. I drive it hard if I am off road and I want to or the situation calls for it. Unlike you, i don't have that much confidence in jeep products. They break down more than many of the other japanese 4x4's and require more maintence. If you really want an offroad vehicle that can take a punishemnt and performs well, go buy a toyota. I've had many and never had a problem. i bought this vehicle becuse I needed a true 4x4 on occassion but couldn't live with the toyota gas mileage. So for my money, I will drive it conservatively, save money, and hope it holds up as well as my previous Japanese vehicles.