On August 11, 2003, Toyota filed a Defect Information Report (DIR) with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) regarding a fuel tank on approximately 35,000 Sienna vehicles, with the intent to initiate a Special Service Campaign.
On certain early to mid-2004 Model Year Sienna vehicle fuel tanks, a part of the fuel tank may become damaged when crashed under the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) 40 mph frontal offset crash test conditions, due to the severe impact forces generated. In the worst case, if this section becomes damaged and fuel leakage occurs, a fire may result in the presence of an ignition source.
The IIHS periodically conducts crash tests where only the driver side of the vehicle strikes a deformable barrier while moving at 40 mph. This crash test places a tremendous demand on the vehicle structure as a relatively small portion of the vehicle’s front-end must absorb and manage the crash energy. According to the IIHS’s preliminary assessment, the Sienna rated “good” in test results, which measure occupant compartment intrusion and injury to the driver’s seat dummy during this severe crash test.
The Sienna meets all federal motor vehicle safety standards and, in subsequent testing by TMC, they were unable to duplicate the above condition.
This new SSC involves the replacement of the fuel tank. A dealer package including technical instructions, parts ordering requirements, special customer satisfaction features, and reimbursement procedures will be mailed to dealers for arrival on August 18, 2003. Owner notifications will commence shortly thereafter in late August, 2003.
Early to Mid 2004 Sienna Fuel Tank Replacement
Q1: What is the condition? A1: On certain early to mid-2004 Model Year Sienna vehicle fuel tanks, a part of the fuel tank may become damaged when crashed under the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) 40 mph frontal offset crash test conditions, due to the severe impact forces generated. In the worst case, if this section becomes damaged and fuel leakage occurs, a fire may result in the presence of an ignition source.
Q2: What is the IIHS 40 mph frontal offset crash test? A2: The IIHS periodically conducts crash tests where only the driver side of the vehicle strikes a deformable barrier while moving at 40 mph. This crash test places a tremendous demand on the vehicle structure as a relatively small portion of the vehicle’s front-end must absorb and manage the crash energy. According to the IIHS’s preliminary assessment, the Sienna rated “good” in test results, which measure occupant compartment intrusion and injury to the driver’s seat dummy during this severe crash test.
Q3: Where was the origin of the fuel leakage? A3: During the IIHS 40 mph frontal offset crash test, one of three “standoffs” internal to the tank was damaged and fuel leakage occurred from that area. The “standoffs” help the fuel tank maintain its stiffness.
Q4: What is the cause of this condition? A4: During the production process of the fuel tank, a “wrinkle” may have developed at the “standoffs” internal to the tank. The “wrinkled” portion combined with other factors may create an area that can become damaged when crashed under the IIHS 40 mph frontal offset crash test conditions, due to the severe impact forces generated.
Q5: Which and how many vehicles are involved in this condition? A5: This condition only affects certain early to mid-2004 model year Sienna vehicles produced from January, 2003 to July, 2003. Nationwide, there are approximately 35,000 Sienna 2WD and 4WD vehicles involved.
Q6: Are there any other Toyota or Lexus vehicles involved? A6: No, this condition only affects certain early to mid-2004 Model Year Sienna vehicles.
Q7: How many incidents of this condition have been reported? A7: Besides the one tank damaged during the IIHS 40 mph frontal offset crash test, there have been no reported incidents related to this condition.
Q8: Have there been any accidents reported? A8: There have been no reported cases of accidents related to this condition.
Q9: Will Toyota improve the design of vehicles currently being produced? A9: Yes, in order to prevent damage to the fuel tank from occurring under the same conditions, production improvements were incorporated starting with the July, 2003 production vehicles.
Q10: Will Toyota conduct a Special Service Campaign for this condition? A10: During Toyota’s investigation, numerous sled tests and destructive tests to simulate the same severe crash conditions were conducted and no fuel leakage was observed. In addition, Toyota believes that Sienna vehicles have an excellent safety performance and they meet or exceed all requirements of the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards. However, Toyota will launch a Special Service Campaign and Toyota dealers will replace the fuel tank with an improved one at NO COST to the vehicle owner. Toyota will begin notifying owners of the involved vehicles in late August, 2003 by first class mail.
Q11: How long will the repair take? A11: The repair will take up to approximately two hours. However, depending upon the dealer’s work schedule, it may be necessary to make the vehicle available for a longer period of time.
Q12: Why didn’t this condition appear during development testing? A12: During Toyota’s investigation, numerous sled tests and destructive tests to simulate the same severe crash conditions were conducted and no fuel leakage was observed. In addition, Toyota believes that Sienna vehicles have an excellent safety performance and they meet or exceed all requirements of the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards.
Q13: Are the IIHS and NHTSA crash-test methods different? A13: Yes, and we do test to IIHS test procedures as well as NHTSA’s.
Q14: How do you know the problem is resolved? A14: Toyota has repeated the IIHS 40 mph offset crash test as well as other tests numerous times using the updated tank and fuel does not leak.
Quote: "Sounds like Toyota does not test their vehicles as well as they should. It seems funny that a frontal crash at 40 mph would cause enough damage to the fuel tank that is located away from the front end. I wonder what happens in a 40mph rear ender, or a side impact?"
Given the importance of safety with the target market (those of us with children) I am sure Toyota did a great deal of testing. the above note from Toyota on this subjectclearly indicates this, The thing to keep in mind is that the one van that was tested by IIHS is the only one to have had this failure in multiple tests since both by Toyota and IIHS.
A 40mph offset crash (the IIHS test) is a very rigorous test at a higher speed than the government mandates, airbag, seatbelts and vehicle structure have to provide protection in a 35 mph crash into a full barrier that involves the entire front of the car. 5mph may not seem like much but it is a doubling of the force exerted on the vehicle. In addition more head on accidents are offset involving the driver side only than hitting a barrier or another car directly head on.
Yes it is a good thing the government and the IIHS do testing, I appreciate as many eyes looking at this issue as possible. we all want the safest cars we can afford.
I wouldn't worry too much about a vanity light being left on in your Sienna stranding your loved ones. My '99 GCS has no automatic shutoff for vanity lights or reading lights, and my kids frequently leave them on (they're hard to see through the privacy glass). Even in winter, they don't drain the battery enough to prevent the van from starting the next morning.
The 34000 figure doe NOT encompass all Siennas built thus far. We just delivered one last night where the customer called the toll free hotline number established by Toyota and found his is not in the affected VIN range.
I don'[t know if this vehicle has been tested by the US government, but clearly it has been by the IIHS. I suspect that as the ratings wars begin in the next month, Dateline will be showing the test in all the gory details. From the way the release reads, it would appear that the Sienna rates a IIHS Good thier highest rating, with the gas tank issue resolved.
The NTHSA was notified of Toyota's intention to recall the vehicle on Monday. They were to release this information in about 2 weeks. This was to give Toyota a chance to have replacement tanks available in the dealerships when customers received thier notices. NTHSA blind sided Toyota by releasing the information this week. Toyota responded by moving up the mailing date and most affected owners will have their notices by Monday.
Unfortunate glitch. Toyota is meeting this one head on.
For those with the infamous run flat tires, here is the advice: you've got to drive it gently.
I got my first blown run flat tire with less than 3000 miles on the clock, and 1000 miles from home. What a nightmare it caused. I knew it was going to be expensive, but I did not know you could not get the tire anywhere locally including Toyota dealers. I had to spend $150 just to get a tire of the same size for the time being. But I have to wait a few weeks and additional $250 to get the exact replacement tire.
The only mistake I did was that I drove over a curb when making a turn. As many of you probably experienced from time to time, the curb protrudes more than your estimate. But rarely does a tire blow up because of that. It appeared that the thick side wall of the run flat tire was too rigid to take sudden buildup of pressure. The tire blew up with a one-inch hole on the side wall.
This small mistake resulted in $400 dent in my pocket book. I believe that the cost, fragileness, and availability of run-flat tires are very serious drawbacks for this new breed. I will definitely replace them with traditional tires once they are worned out. No more run-flat craps for me!
Aren't the run-flats just on the AWD models--the ones that don't have space for a spare tire? If you put conventional tires on your van, what happens the next time you get a flat tire?
FWIW, I once blew a tire on a Sentra by hitting a curb while driving into a parking lot--it was black-colored (from driveway sealant overspray) and was sitting right in the middle of the driveway. Ruined the steel wheel, too. So conventional tires may not save you from that sitation.
mwalker6 - How about this Toyota OEM all-weather mats on your Sienna? The front and second row seats (PT206-08036-03 for gray, sold in one package) are cost about $74.00 and the third row seats are $62.00 from www.camelbacktoyotaparts.com if you are interested in this custom fitted rubber mats other than those universal mats from Wal-Mart or Target. The WeatherTech (www.mats.com), non-Toyota accessory, has the cargo liner which fit the rear seat well are with the 3rd seats are up. They will introduce an extended version of the cargo liner which fits when the 3rd seats are down. This probably costs you another $80. I hope this can help.
Yikes. I hadn't really thought of the replacement issue. It makes me wonder about some of those road hazard plans. My dealership doesn't sell these, but I do know of some that do. They work like this: Pay a fee (I think its around $125 or so) and for three years, if you get a flat tire, they pay for replacement. Roadside assistance is also part of this plan. Normally, I'd call a plan like that a bit of a gimmick, but in this case, it sounds like good insurance. I may have to look into that for my store.
One of the big drawbacks to run flat tires, which does not seem to be generally recognized, is that if you do get a flat, there is a good probability that you will need to replace the tire. In such case, there is also a good probability that you will not be able to readily obtain one. (Not to mention the considerable cost to buy one if you can find one.) In my opinion, run flat tires are to be avoided if you plan to do any highway driving away from major populated areas. Either that, or take a spare with you.
i am about to pull the trigger on 2004 Sienna Limited with pkg 6. The best i can do is only a mere $1800 of MSRP. All the dealership in SF bay area are quoting 10 week lead time.
I did a mass e-mailing of all N.Cal dealership. All came back with $1k to $1800 off MSRP.
They must have more of these things coming to the SF Bay area than we have here in the Central Atlantic Region. The prices you have are roughly $1000 or more better than this area.
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My dad lives in Chico (I know its a hike but at least its in the right half of the state) and has had very good dealings with the dealership in Oroville. They dealt quickly and honestly with him over the phone. It might be worth a call, but as I said, your quotes are pretty good already.
One thing you also need to consider is availability. The production of these vans has stopped while they take care of the fuel tank recall. The tanks are being diverted from the assembly line to the dealerships to fix the 35000 that were covered. That means product shortages for the next few months. Product shortages means higher prices. If you found one at a price you are happy with, don't wait too long to take it.
After my extremely unpleasant experience with a blown run flat tire (796), I have been looking for options to replace the AWD OEM tires in the future.
Although the tire size is not a common one, you still can find it locally. The cost is significatly lower. The issues is where do you carry the spare during a long trip.
While there is no perfect solution, I think carrying it on the roof top is much more acceptable than in the trunk. You can buy one of those soft nylon roof top carrier from Walmart for $40 or so. It won't look awful to carry spare in it.
I will carry a spare on a long trip even before I replace all run flat tires because if you do get a flat tire, chances are you won't be able to find a replacement.
We ordered a 2004 at the end of July from a Milwaukee dealer. The best we could get was $500 off. Of course they then lowballed us on our trade in. Imagine our shock.
We did find that one dealer was more than willing to say, oh, we could have beaten that price, after my wife told him we went with another dealer. Again, complete shock. Buying a car must be the most frustrating, mind numbing experience I can think of.
At least we are able to look forward to an additional 2-4 week wait (due to the recall) over and above the 4-8 weeks we were originally told.
Sorry for the sarcasm, it has been building up for weeks now.
I am amazed that Sienna buyers are surprised that they can't get large discounts on what is the hottest minivan right now, and which is in relatively short supply. If you want big discounts, go see your local Dodge, Chrysler, Ford, Mazda, Kia, or GM dealer--they'll be happy to sell you a van at a big discount. If you want a big discount on a Sienna, patience is a virtue. Wait for supply to catch up with demand, and for the next-gen Odyssey and tweaked '04 DC vans with fold-down rear seats to take some of the luster off the Sienna. Discounts will come. If you must have a Sienna now, you'll pay for the priviledge. Supply and demand, folks.
I was at one of the local OKC Toyota dealer yesterday just checking things out for fun. There was not even one Sienna in the whole lot, but there were Landcruisers, Sequoias, 4Runners, Highlanders, and every other Toyota vehicles. Amazing how a minivan can ever be that "hot"! Like you said, the demand severely surpasses the supply right now.
I have a 2004 XLE, with Tow package. Is a 2,850 lb Tent trailer too much? What about with say 4 passengers in the Van? Appreciate any thoughts. Also, the "Tow package" doesnt say anything about wiring. Is there wiring already there at the back bumper somewhere?
That should not be a problem. The Sienna hitch is rated at 3500. Be sure the load is balanced though. The hitch can ride pretty low and scrape with too much weight distributed to the front of the towed trailer.
Sienna production information is as follows: From a max production of around 3400/wk in June, Toyota is now producing just under 3000. There was one week where no Sienna's were produced, but the production is going again and should be growing even greater soon.
But the discount was $500 exactly. I couldn't find one that would give more than that. I think either Andrew or Safro was the one who said they could have beaten that price (after we told them we had ordered it from Heiser).
I spoke with Toyota Customer Service yesterday and was informed that they are not currently building any Siennas. The gentleman I spoke with said it should be back up "soon" but nothing is happening now due to the "supplier problem."
Are these gas tank made of plastic or steel? Maybe, they should put a rubber bladder inside the new tank just to make sure it won't fail down the road.
I am ready to order the new Sienna, but I cannot decide on whether to get traction control and stability control. I live in Wisconsin, but I do not have the technical expertise to know how much these features really help in harsh winters. I have read the Edmunds articles under the "Tips and Advice" tab.
Any opinions on how important these features are in snowy/icy conditions?
If you order the AWD Sienna you will get both traction control and vehicle stability control - no choice. I think all 3 give you an advantage in Wisconsin winters.
Traction Control Traction control systems improve vehicle stability by controlling the amount the drive wheels can slip when you apply extra power. The system automatically adjusts the engine power output and, in some systems, applies braking force to selected wheels during acceleration. Traction control is mainly found on vehicles with four-wheel, anti-lock brake systems.
Electronic Stability Control Electronic Stability Control (which is offered under various trade names) is designed to assist drivers in maintaining control of their vehicles during extreme steering maneuvers. Electronic Stability Control senses when a vehicle is starting to spin out (oversteer) or plow out (understeer), and it turns the vehicle to the appropriate heading by automatically applying the brake at a single wheel. It is intended to reduce the occurrence of crashes in which vehicles run off the road or otherwise go out of control. However, it cannot keep a vehicle on the road if its speed is simply too great for the conditions and the available traction.
And now you need to detrimine just how "agressive" Toyota makes the various versions of the software(firmware) for these features.
In order to create the "correct" driving experience for the 911/996 C4 owners Porsche delays the onset of their versions and then once active they are very agressive.
I would think that in a minivan these functions should be quite quick and agressive but don't know any easy way to test.
Also be aware that there appears to be a timeout of about a minute or so to protect the ABS pump/motor, the sole source of replenishing the hydraulic pressure used to implement VSC/Trac.
"The best sight, though, occurs as a nearly complete, luminous-blue Sequoia body floats from above down to the chassis carrying the motor. The fit is perfect, finishing the marvel of the complex sequencing of parts we witnessed earlier in the tour."
That was interesting. And we are talking about 18 hours of operation. It is like a small city with 4800 workers, day care, bank and cafeteria. I think these workers in Japan are so loyal to their companies because they take care of everything as their workers.
We tow a tent camper that weighs 2200 lb, and the Sienna does great.
The Sienna has a better tow capability than other minivans. While it can only tow 3500 lb, like them, at the same time it can hold 800 lb people and gear in the van. Anything beyond that needs to be subtracted from the 3500.
In comparison, the Ody can only hold 300 lb in the van while towing 3500 lb.
Towing 2850 will be close to the limits. You need to limit your gear so that you don't get over 650 lb. I would think that would be ok, as long as you don't drive it with a full tank of water in the camper.
Note Toyota requires anti-sway bars, and for such large loads recommends a weight distribution hitch, which gives you slightly more capacity. Wiring is not a problem--I saw the technician wire ours and it took about 5 minutes.
Regarding the towability, we have more than enough acceleration with the camper loaded and going uphills. It works well for us.
Note of caution--protect that bumper! We've scratched it with the camper hitch and the sway bar rod.
The 2nd row seats of the 7-seater are larger than the 2nd row seats (on the outside; by the doors) of the 8-seater. I would like to know how much comfort I will be giving up for having an extra seat. In other words, seats that are not as large for all the time vs. the versatility of having an extra seat for the times family visits from out of town. Our children are ten and under. Of course if we could try the seats in both vehicles, that decision becomes easy. But that is not feasible for us now due to lack of 8-seater close by.
Please, can anybody help with the following: 1) Specs on the seats themselves 7-Pass vs 8-Pass, e.g. width at hip, at shoulder, and at knees. Scaling from the elongated pictures on Toyota's website, I estimate loss of 3inch width at the hip per seat. 2) Any feedback from someone who tried the seats in both as to how they compare and what your thoughts are.
We were in the same situation as you-- extra seat in case you need it or not. The 8 pass. seats are smaller and closer to the side of the van. You can move the middle seat forward to give a car seat/booster seat/people extra room. Car & Driver actually tested it with 8 adults and moved that seat forward for extra hip room -- they were very pleased on comfort. The seats do not have arm rests. You can obviously remove any of the seats to have access to the third row which is nice. I am not sure what the actual seat specs are, but my husband & I both fit fine in the seats and we are average height and within our recommended weight range. I imagine your children would be quite comfortable in the 8 pass. seats. Again, Car & Driver would be good reading for you (we read it on their web site).
We have a van on order now and decided to go with the 7 pass. We chose it over the 8 pass. after much debate b/c we figured the amount of time we would actually have 8 people in the van (friends and realatives going to the zoo, etc.) would be slim. What really made us go with the 7 passenger was the fact that the 8 pass. seats are closer to the side of the van. Now, it may never make a difference, but in the off change that we were in a side impact accident, maybe a few inches would make a difference (and we are getting side curtain airbags).
I know there will be plenty of times that I will wish we had ordered the 8 pass., but we are sticking to the 7 pass. Hope this helped!
Planning to buy a XLE before the end of the year. No big hurry to get it and wondering if others on this board think I should wait a few months before ordering one. Not sure if it is reasonable to think that prices might come down late this year or even early next year. I'm sure they'll come down when the all new Odyssey comes out, but all indications are that that will be late next year and I don't want to wait that long. The new Ford Freestar comes out next month, but I doubt that will put much pricing pressure on the Sienna. What do you think?
Also, do you think the factory DVD system is worth the price? Seems like a much better deal to spend $400 on the Audiovox portable system that straps to the back of the front seats, but I worry a little about it's crash safety.
I don't think the Freestar is going to put any more pressure on the Sienna than the new Quest has (not a whole lot in other words). There's not a lot of buzz about the new Ford nor the Mercury Monterey.
Best bet for buyers imo is to hope Toyota gets production cranked back up and that dealers get plenty of inventory.
It'll get interesting in '05 with second year Sienna improvements, a refreshed Odyssey and maybe there's a VW giant killer lurking with a potential Microbus?
After four months of owning my XLE I can only cough up one minor complaint, albeit one that is becoming more irritating by the day.
I find the leather steering wheel to be very slippery, ( I don't know if this is normal as I have not had leather in a vehicle before.) I have not used any leather treatments or anything else on it. All the descriptions I have read on leather treatments leads me to believe they would only make the problem worse.
Can anyone suggest something I can use to reduce the slipperyness of the steering wheel? (Can anyone tell me if "slipperyness" is a real word.)
By the way, none of the rest of the van's leather feels slippery.
The revamped 2004.5 DC vans might cause a little more competition for the Sienna, but as Steve says its a moot point while production is way behind demand. I doubt prices will come down much in the next few months. There may be no significant lowering of Sienna prices until late next year, when production is ramped up, the '04s are being closed out, and the new Odyssey is here. If you have your heart set on a Sienna, may as well order it now so you can enjoy it that much longer.
Thanks backy and Steve. We're all pretty much in agreement on pricing pressure...or lack there of for the foreseeable future. I'm still holding out some hope that when Toyota is no longer having to divert fuel tanks to recalled vehicles production will get closer to meeting demand.
I've driven a 04 Sienna for about 15 minutes. Would like to drive one again (and at least see an XLE) before I buy, but it's almost impossible to find an unsold unit on a dealer's lot. I've never purchased a vehicle without an extended test drive before ordering. Hate to drop $35K without more time behind the wheel!
You are wise not to drop $35k without getting more time behind the wheel. The Sienna drives differently than some other vans, e.g. the Quest, Odyssey, and MPV, so you'll want to drive and compare before you give someone your hard-earned money. One nice thing about the Sienna though is that it should hold its resale value well, so if in a year or two you decide it's not the van for you, you can get most of your money back.
Comments
On August 11, 2003, Toyota filed a Defect Information Report (DIR) with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) regarding a fuel tank on approximately 35,000 Sienna vehicles, with the intent to initiate a Special Service Campaign.
On certain early to mid-2004 Model Year Sienna vehicle fuel tanks, a part of the fuel tank may become damaged when crashed under the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) 40 mph frontal offset crash test conditions, due to the severe impact forces generated. In the worst case, if this section becomes damaged and fuel leakage occurs, a fire may result in the presence of an ignition source.
The IIHS periodically conducts crash tests where only the driver side of the vehicle strikes a deformable barrier while moving at 40 mph. This crash test places a tremendous demand on the vehicle structure as a relatively small portion of the vehicle’s front-end must absorb and manage the crash energy. According to the IIHS’s preliminary assessment, the Sienna rated “good” in test results, which measure occupant compartment intrusion and injury to the driver’s seat dummy during this severe crash test.
The Sienna meets all federal motor vehicle safety standards and, in subsequent testing by TMC, they were unable to duplicate the above condition.
This new SSC involves the replacement of the fuel tank. A dealer package including technical instructions, parts ordering requirements, special customer satisfaction features, and reimbursement procedures will be mailed to dealers for arrival on August 18, 2003. Owner notifications will commence shortly thereafter in late August, 2003.
Early to Mid 2004 Sienna Fuel Tank Replacement
Q1: What is the condition?
A1: On certain early to mid-2004 Model Year Sienna vehicle fuel tanks, a part of the fuel tank may become damaged when crashed under the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) 40 mph frontal offset crash test conditions, due to the severe impact forces generated. In the worst case, if this section becomes damaged and fuel leakage occurs, a fire may result in the presence of an ignition source.
Q2: What is the IIHS 40 mph frontal offset crash test?
A2: The IIHS periodically conducts crash tests where only the driver side of the vehicle strikes a deformable barrier while moving at 40 mph. This crash test places a tremendous demand on the vehicle structure as a relatively small portion of the vehicle’s front-end must absorb and manage the crash energy. According to the IIHS’s preliminary assessment, the Sienna rated “good” in test results, which measure occupant compartment intrusion and injury to the driver’s seat dummy during this severe crash test.
Q3: Where was the origin of the fuel leakage?
A3: During the IIHS 40 mph frontal offset crash test, one of three “standoffs” internal to the tank was damaged and fuel leakage occurred from that area. The “standoffs” help the fuel tank maintain its stiffness.
Q4: What is the cause of this condition?
A4: During the production process of the fuel tank, a “wrinkle” may have developed at the “standoffs” internal to the tank. The “wrinkled” portion combined with other factors may create an area that can become damaged when crashed under the IIHS 40 mph frontal offset crash test conditions, due to the severe impact forces generated.
Q5: Which and how many vehicles are involved in this condition?
A5: This condition only affects certain early to mid-2004 model year Sienna vehicles produced from January, 2003 to July, 2003. Nationwide, there are approximately 35,000 Sienna 2WD and 4WD vehicles involved.
Q6: Are there any other Toyota or Lexus vehicles involved?
A6: No, this condition only affects certain early to mid-2004 Model Year Sienna vehicles.
Q7: How many incidents of this condition have been reported?
A7: Besides the one tank damaged during the IIHS 40 mph frontal offset crash test, there have been no reported incidents related to this condition.
Q8: Have there been any accidents reported?
A8: There have been no reported cases of accidents related to this condition.
Q9: Will Toyota improve the design of vehicles currently being produced?
A9: Yes, in order to prevent damage to the fuel tank from occurring under the same conditions, production improvements were incorporated starting with the July, 2003 production vehicles.
Q10: Will Toyota conduct a Special Service Campaign for this condition?
A10: During Toyota’s investigation, numerous sled tests and destructive tests to simulate the same severe crash conditions were conducted and no fuel leakage was observed. In addition, Toyota believes that Sienna vehicles have an excellent safety performance and they meet or exceed all requirements of the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards. However, Toyota will launch a Special Service Campaign and Toyota dealers will replace the fuel tank with an improved one at NO COST to the vehicle owner. Toyota will begin notifying owners of the involved vehicles in late August, 2003 by first class mail.
Q11: How long will the repair take?
A11: The repair will take up to approximately two hours. However, depending upon the dealer’s work schedule, it may be necessary to make the vehicle available for a longer period of time.
Q12: Why didn’t this condition appear during development testing?
A12: During Toyota’s investigation, numerous sled tests and destructive tests to simulate the same severe crash conditions were conducted and no fuel leakage was observed. In addition, Toyota believes that Sienna vehicles have an excellent safety performance and they meet or exceed all requirements of the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards.
Q13: Are the IIHS and NHTSA crash-test methods different?
A13: Yes, and we do test to IIHS test procedures as well as NHTSA’s.
Q14: How do you know the problem is resolved?
A14: Toyota has repeated the IIHS 40 mph offset crash test as well as other tests numerous times using the updated tank and fuel does not leak.
Given the importance of safety with the target market (those of us with children) I am sure Toyota did a great deal of testing. the above note from Toyota on this subjectclearly indicates this, The thing to keep in mind is that the one van that was tested by IIHS is the only one to have had this failure in multiple tests since both by Toyota and IIHS.
A 40mph offset crash (the IIHS test) is a very rigorous test at a higher speed than the government mandates, airbag, seatbelts and vehicle structure have to provide protection in a 35 mph crash into a full barrier that involves the entire front of the car. 5mph may not seem like much but it is a doubling of the force exerted on the vehicle. In addition more head on accidents are offset involving the driver side only than hitting a barrier or another car directly head on.
Yes it is a good thing the government and the IIHS do testing, I appreciate as many eyes looking at this issue as possible. we all want the safest cars we can afford.
Bummer to have a roll-out glitch, but they happen. Does anyone know whether this will delay the release of crash test results for the Sienna?
Steve, Host
Unfortunate glitch. Toyota is meeting this one head on.
I got my first blown run flat tire with less than 3000 miles on the clock, and 1000 miles from home. What a nightmare it caused. I knew it was going to be expensive, but I did not know you could not get the tire anywhere locally including Toyota dealers. I had to spend $150 just to get a tire of the same size for the time being. But I have to wait a few weeks and additional $250 to get the exact replacement tire.
The only mistake I did was that I drove over a curb when making a turn. As many of you probably experienced from time to time, the curb protrudes more than your estimate. But rarely does a tire blow up because of that. It appeared that the thick side wall of the run flat tire was too rigid to take sudden buildup of pressure. The tire blew up with a one-inch hole on the side wall.
This small mistake resulted in $400 dent in my pocket book. I believe that the cost, fragileness, and availability of run-flat tires are very serious drawbacks for this new breed. I will definitely replace them with traditional tires once they are worned out. No more run-flat craps for me!
FWIW, I once blew a tire on a Sentra by hitting a curb while driving into a parking lot--it was black-colored (from driveway sealant overspray) and was sitting right in the middle of the driveway. Ruined the steel wheel, too. So conventional tires may not save you from that sitation.
I did a mass e-mailing of all N.Cal dealership. All came back with $1k to $1800 off MSRP.
like to hear what other has paid.
We have more than 10 toyota dealer within 100 mile radius. may be that's reason why i got the price.
For those in SF. The price was 1st offered by Dublin Toyota, matched by Toyota of Palo Alto and fremont toyota (this is where put the deposit.)
The highest that came back was toyota 101 came back with $1100 off MSRP.
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kirstie_h
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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One thing you also need to consider is availability. The production of these vans has stopped while they take care of the fuel tank recall. The tanks are being diverted from the assembly line to the dealerships to fix the 35000 that were covered. That means product shortages for the next few months. Product shortages means higher prices. If you found one at a price you are happy with, don't wait too long to take it.
Although the tire size is not a common one, you still can find it locally. The cost is significatly lower. The issues is where do you carry the spare during a long trip.
While there is no perfect solution, I think carrying it on the roof top is much more acceptable than in the trunk. You can buy one of those soft nylon roof top carrier from Walmart for $40 or so. It won't look awful to carry spare in it.
I will carry a spare on a long trip even before I replace all run flat tires because if you do get a flat tire, chances are you won't be able to find a replacement.
I am in Madison, Wisconsin and looking for an '04 Sienna. Wondering if anyone found a dealership in Wisconsin/Chicago able to sell below MSRP?
We did find that one dealer was more than willing to say, oh, we could have beaten that price, after my wife told him we went with another dealer. Again, complete shock. Buying a car must be the most frustrating, mind numbing experience I can think of.
At least we are able to look forward to an additional 2-4 week wait (due to the recall) over and above the 4-8 weeks we were originally told.
Sorry for the sarcasm, it has been building up for weeks now.
Get on the phone, make lots of calls, you'll find something.
Amazing how a minivan can ever be that "hot"!
Like you said, the demand severely surpasses the supply right now.
Thanks...
I want to get rid of the '96 Plymouth G.Voyager in my driveway.
From a max production of around 3400/wk in June, Toyota is now producing just under 3000. There was one week where no Sienna's were produced, but the production is going again and should be growing even greater soon.
But the discount was $500 exactly. I couldn't find one that would give more than that. I think either Andrew or Safro was the one who said they could have beaten that price (after we told them we had ordered it from Heiser).
Sorry I can't be of more assistance.
Not sure where that Customer Service person got their info.
Any opinions on how important these features are in snowy/icy conditions?
Traction Control
Traction control systems improve vehicle stability by controlling the amount the drive wheels can slip when you apply extra power. The system automatically adjusts the engine power output and, in some systems, applies braking force to selected wheels during acceleration. Traction control is mainly found on vehicles with four-wheel, anti-lock brake systems.
Electronic Stability Control
Electronic Stability Control (which is offered under various trade names) is designed to assist drivers in maintaining control of their vehicles during extreme steering maneuvers. Electronic Stability Control senses when a vehicle is starting to spin out (oversteer) or plow out (understeer), and it turns the vehicle to the appropriate heading by automatically applying the brake at a single wheel. It is intended to reduce the occurrence of crashes in which vehicles run off the road or otherwise go out of control. However, it cannot keep a vehicle on the road if its speed is simply too great for the conditions and the available traction.
In order to create the "correct" driving experience for the 911/996 C4 owners Porsche delays the onset of their versions and then once active they are very agressive.
I would think that in a minivan these functions should be quite quick and agressive but don't know any easy way to test.
Also be aware that there appears to be a timeout of about a minute or so to protect the ABS pump/motor, the sole source of replenishing the hydraulic pressure used to implement VSC/Trac.
Tour of Toyota (San Antonio Express-News)
Steve, Host
The Sienna has a better tow capability than other minivans. While it can only tow 3500 lb, like them, at the same time it can hold 800 lb people and gear in the van. Anything beyond that needs to be subtracted from the 3500.
In comparison, the Ody can only hold 300 lb in the van while towing 3500 lb.
Towing 2850 will be close to the limits. You need to limit your gear so that you don't get over 650 lb. I would think that would be ok, as long as you don't drive it with a full tank of water in the camper.
Note Toyota requires anti-sway bars, and for such large loads recommends a weight distribution hitch, which gives you slightly more capacity. Wiring is not a problem--I saw the technician wire ours and it took about 5 minutes.
Regarding the towability, we have more than enough acceleration with the camper loaded and going uphills. It works well for us.
Note of caution--protect that bumper! We've scratched it with the camper hitch and the sway bar rod.
Of course if we could try the seats in both vehicles, that decision becomes easy. But that is not feasible for us now due to lack of 8-seater close by.
Please, can anybody help with the following:
1) Specs on the seats themselves 7-Pass vs 8-Pass, e.g. width at hip, at shoulder, and at knees. Scaling from the elongated pictures on Toyota's website, I estimate loss of 3inch width at the hip per seat.
2) Any feedback from someone who tried the seats in both as to how they compare and what your thoughts are.
We have a van on order now and decided to go with the 7 pass. We chose it over the 8 pass. after much debate b/c we figured the amount of time we would actually have 8 people in the van (friends and realatives going to the zoo, etc.) would be slim. What really made us go with the 7 passenger was the fact that the 8 pass. seats are closer to the side of the van. Now, it may never make a difference, but in the off change that we were in a side impact accident, maybe a few inches would make a difference (and we are getting side curtain airbags).
I know there will be plenty of times that I will wish we had ordered the 8 pass., but we are sticking to the 7 pass. Hope this helped!
Also, do you think the factory DVD system is worth the price? Seems like a much better deal to spend $400 on the Audiovox portable system that straps to the back of the front seats, but I worry a little about it's crash safety.
Best bet for buyers imo is to hope Toyota gets production cranked back up and that dealers get plenty of inventory.
It'll get interesting in '05 with second year Sienna improvements, a refreshed Odyssey and maybe there's a VW giant killer lurking with a potential Microbus?
Steve, Host
I find the leather steering wheel to be very slippery, ( I don't know if this is normal as I have not had leather in a vehicle before.) I have not used any leather treatments or anything else on it. All the descriptions I have read on leather treatments leads me to believe they would only make the problem worse.
Can anyone suggest something I can use to reduce the slipperyness of the steering wheel? (Can anyone tell me if "slipperyness" is a real word.)
By the way, none of the rest of the van's leather feels slippery.
I've driven a 04 Sienna for about 15 minutes. Would like to drive one again (and at least see an XLE) before I buy, but it's almost impossible to find an unsold unit on a dealer's lot. I've never purchased a vehicle without an extended test drive before ordering. Hate to drop $35K without more time behind the wheel!