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Comments
As for armrests in the 8-seater, NO, the other seats do not have armrests, only the front seats do. The 7-seater middle seats DO have armrests. You can go to the Toyota website and see a top-view of the 8-seater interior here:
http://www.toyota.com/vehicles/2004/sienna/interior.html
I have the brochure as well, and it's very apparent that there are no armrests. I wouldn't call the 8-seater middle seats "captain's chair" by any stretch, they look very simple compared to the 7 seater.
Hope this helps, good luck with your shopping!
1. What is the difference between bucket seats and captain's chairs? The T&C says it has bucket seats and the Sienna and Honda has captains chairs.
2. Has anyone considered both the Sienna and T&C? If so, what do you feel to be the plusses and minues of each?
3. What is a good deal on a fully loaded top of the line Sienna?
But now I would seriously consider the AWD Sienna before even looking at a new T&C.
I'm thinking of replacing the Odyssey with an '04 Sienna and would like to know who much dealers are "dealing" on these things. Given the 04's all-new design, I suspect I'll find myself right back in the same boat as I was when I bought the Odyssey.
Hope to hear lots of replies. Thanks.
http://www.new.edmunds.com/ownership/safety/articles/46352/articl- e.html
Stability Control:
http://www.new.edmunds.com/ownership/safety/articles/45992/articl- e.html
I just wanted to say that IMHO, all 3 features are *absolutely* worth the money, and share a personal experience: we had done our research back in June/July and knew we wanted those features, but I hadn't had any personal experience *using* them until we finally got a chance to test-drive a Sienna. As luck would have it, we were nearly in an accident due to a reckless driver swerving in and out of traffic. It had been raining all morning, so the roads were slick, and the driver apparently didn't even look to see who was in our lane as he swerved into it to pass someone on the right. My husband had to swerve into the next lane (far right lane) to keep from being hit, then hit the brakes to avoid rear-ending the slow-moving 18-wheeler in that lane. The Sienna's handling was superb; the brakes slowed us much faster than I would have anticipated, and there was no fishtailing at all. (Though the dealer in the van with us for the test-drive was visibly shaken -- and I couldn't blame him! I was too!)
Good luck with your van-buying. My *only* complaint with the Sienna is that it's taking too long to get here. But based on the research we did before buying, I'm confident that it's well worth the wait, even though it means our family has been without a van for 3 months now and we still don't know when the Sienna will arrive.
I also *highly* recommend the side air bags for all 3 seats, if you'll regularly have passengers in the back 2 rows. They dramatically improve safety.
If you'd like details of the shopping/negotiation process, let me know.
Steve, Host
It is very unlikely you will find a Sienna on a dealer's lot that they are willing to sell for less than sticker (or much less). That vehicle has value to them far beyond the sale. It is a rolling billboard. It brings people into the dealership to see the van. It allows people to test drive and maybe order their own. That one van has the potential to be responsible for many new sales.
Selling it and winding up without a single XLE or even Sienna at all would lose a lot.
People all over the country who are willing to travel and wait have been getting great deals (some just $500 over invoice. Personally I got mine for $2k under MSRP, but had similar offers and others of $1k under MSRP along with a few who had a new policy of only selling at sticker (great policy by the way???).
Supply and Demand drives some of this so the deals are harder to find, but if you go the end of a month when a dealership is trying to move product...you will find a deal.
The thing I notice about vans is that you rarely see them pulled over by the police. I feel that if I am driving the same speed as a sports car, or blazer, the police will pull over those cars before me. Very rarely have I noticed vans pulled over.
Yes, I think people do think of you differently when you are driving certain vehicles.
Vans and wagons are definitely stealth vehicles.
Findingnemo, is it all vehicles or just the SUV and pickup drivers pulling out in front of you? I tend to flash my lights at them pretty often.
Steve, Host
Now, Steve's gonna jump all over me. :-)
In parking lots at malls, or even at my child's daycare...people are driving dangerously and seem oblivious to the threat they pose to others. ALSO, The art of parking deserves a whole separate discussion...it's a LOST art and again, the reason is mostly because one would have to put the phone down and use two hands on the wheel!! That's obviously unacceptable.
Java, so you couldn't resist the AWD. Does this mean you're moving to the Hillside?
Jake, I think cars (minivans, trucks & SUVs anyway) are getting bigger, but the parking spaces aren't. Not that many parallel parking spaces exist around here anymore, much less diagonal ones, so people probably figure why bother learning?
Anyone take delivery of a new Sienna over the weekend?
Steve, Host
Steve... alot of reasons, but awd was just on my wish list. Actually, we were >< close to either getting an XC90-T6 or an RX330, but they didn't fit the bill on useable space, and there's no way I'm going to buy a monster SUV. MIL is getting the MPV though.
By the way I am soccer-dad and love my station wagon errr Van ! My better half wants a big Sequoia whereas I do not want to part with my van !!
John
Your minivan isn't fire engine red with a bunch of nitrous stickers in the window is it?
Steve, Host
Nah, mine is desert sand mica (good for stealth job but those cops are really good !!), but how I wish if it is possible to drop the 4runner V6 engine in Sienna !!
I swear I did not know van was doing 82 in 65mph zone (Maine) or 75 in 55 mph zone (New York)!(It was not me, my van !!)
John
Must be a really nice van to spend that much and wait so long for it.
There are some problems though in the first several days, the plastic cover of the center seat of middle row was broken already before I started using it. The service department of my dealer ordered a new cover to replace it. To me the plastic covers (especially the ones under or beside the seats) of the new Sienna look very cheap.
The second issue is that I found when I press on the gas pedal, there is always a slight hesitation at the beginning (which made me think that my previous Odyssey 1997 with only 140 hp 4 cylinder engine might start quicker from the traffic light), or maybe I need more practice to get used to the new car and know how to press gas properly. I hope it is not just me. I also found that unlike what's been claimed by Toyota, it is quite noisy when accelarating. At least my previous Honda Odyssey 1997 was quieter and nimbler in the local traffic.
The third issue is that whenever I press the gas, I hear a whistling sound under the hood. I don't know whether it is normal for the new Sienna or not. Has anybody got the same kind of whistling noise? I am going back to the dealer this weekend again.
Other than the above issues, everything looks/works fine. I hope there will be no more problems.
Compared to what people pay for SUVs, you're getting a lot of bang for your buck. Enjoy the new ride, Sljbfam!
Steve, Host
LOL.
Especially compared to that bouncy little ol' pickup you drive Cliffy, LOL.
Steve, Host
My wife's distaste for the Sienna looks has been tempered by her desire for those features coupled with its smaller size and expected easier handling and parking. And it sits high enough to keep her from feeling overwhelmed by the towering Texas norms of big trucks (like our F-150) and SUVs. Now if only we can get the budget and Toyota can deliver the goods before next summer's visit....
And speaking of stealth, "Yet for freeway commutes, there's an advantage to driving a vehicle that's invisible to other motorists and the highway patrol rather than one like our 350Z that's always looking for a fight."
Long-Term Test: 2004 Toyota Sienna
Steve, Host
http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/sep03/173784.asp
Motor Trend
Quality is suddenly a problem for a major new model from Toyota Motor Corp., an auto maker with a reputation for trouble-free cars.
http://www.motortrend.com/features/news/112_news19/
http://www.enquirer.com/columns/wheels/columns/091303_hybrids.htm- l
Anybody with more info?
My problem is that it is not happening all the time, so I can not easily reproduce it to the dealer. But I know it is a problem for sure and it is so annoying. I haven never driven a Toyota car like this before.
The other issue is the whistling noise when I start the engine in the morning, open the hood, couldn't hear anything, but the noise can be heard behind the front tires and underneath and inside the car the noise is obvious. The same case when I am driving, the whistling noise is worse. I went to dealer twice, the technician said that it is normal and there is nothing he can do. This is so frustruting, I had to turn on the radio to try to avoid the noise while I am driving. I chose Toyota for its smoothness/quietness, but now I am not getting what I expected. Is there anything I can do?
cannuck13, I noticed that you are from Canada as well, which City are you living in and which dealer did you deal with? I am living in Toronto, Toyota on Front is my dealer.
Thank.
Regarding the whistling noise, I hope it will go away after some time.
"The weird transmission activity is a design feature to eliminate, mostly, engine braking to the front wheels when coasting or slowing to a stop and thereby reduce the potential for loss of directional control on a slippery surface."
What is happening is that the software for the transmission stays in the highest gear possible for fuel economy, it then must shift down several gears when you start accelerating.
The correct way to go around a corner involves getting all your braking done before the corner and accelerating lightly around the corner. Upon exiting the turn you continue to accelerate to the prevalent speed on that road.
This method will have your Sienna in the correct gear for the speed you will be going when you need it.
This is generally a more comfortable way to go around the turn for your passengers and is safer in all conditions. Even those conditions Mr West refers to.
In my 01 AWD RX it gives one a somewhat queasy feeling in the pit of the stomach when it happens.
Test it yourself. Drive along on the flat at a steady speed long enough for the transmission ecu to stabilize at that speed. Then coast down from about 50mph. At first you will feel a definite drag due to engine lagging torque, then suddenly you will feel as if the vehicle is suddenly accelerating.
My assumption would be that at first, just before coastdown, transmission would be in overdrive with torque converter lockup engaged (highest possible gear for fuel economy). Entering coastdown mode you will at first feel engine drag effects, and then "slingshot" effect (much more noticeable if coasting downhill). In this instance what transmission gear/mode would do this except neutral?
And why??
Same effect just before coming to a stop with your foot lightly on the brake, sudden un-natural feeling as if the brakes have failed or been slightly released.
And as I have said before, years ago Cadillac added an over-running clutch to their FWD transmissions so that engine braking would have no effect on the driven wheels during coastdown.
That high torque/compression Northstar engine was contributing to the untimely death of the already too few Cadillac buyers.
I think you might be right, all the three times when the strange thing(which I thought something wrong with transmission) happened to me, I remembered that I did brake during the cornering, maybe I should finish braking before the corner which might be safer and I definitely should change my driving habit during cornering.
Mahesh
That said, I do have a AWD wagon with studs for the ski hill here in Boise since my FWD minivan has trouble going up to the hill in fresh powder a couple of times each winter.
Steve, Host
Having not yet been through a winter in North America votes are not in yet.
The world is currently in the process of learning (some are still in denial) just how hazardous FWD, or front torque bias AWD can be on snow and ice, or any slippery roadbed surface.
For decades we thought nothing of using snow chains ONLY on the rear, still do, no problem. But now go to any tire shop and ask them to explain why they will NOT install studs on only the front tires of ANY car.
I can't say if you will ever really need AWD or 4WD in Madison WI, here on the eastside of Seattle I have only needed it twice in the past thirteen years.
I currently own an 01 RX300 with one of those non-functional VC AWD systems so I upgraded to 17x8 wheels/tires using 1.2 spacers all around. The spacers allow me to use snowchains, front & rear, which I ALWAYS carry in the car in the wintertime.
The OEM RX can only accept snowchains on the front which Lexus has acknowledged to be potentially, subject to loss of control, very hazardous
The VSC may be preventing the transmision from doing a quick downshift when cornering...
Think of FWD only for a moment...
You're at the apex of the corner where the VSC yaw sensor output is saying lateral, centrifical, forces are reasonably high. You depress the accelerator enough to force a downshift but the VSC system intervenes, at least until the lateral force declines.
Remember, the VSC system has no way of knowing just how slippery, or NOT, the roadbed may be, so it may be quite reasonable for those writing the VSC firmware specification to define "no harsh downshifts with simultaneous engine spoolup with certain "high" yaw sensor outputs".
I assume that most can see that under these circumstances the side-loading on the driven wheels/tires (FWD) could be such that adding significant engine driving torque could potentially result in loss of directional control.
And since even in AWD versions these vehicles seem to be predominantly FWD the same VSC firmware applies.
My guess would be that if you do your downshifting just before entering the curve, or after exiting the apex, the transmission will shift more normally.
I have become an advocate of having the VSC activation indications be elongated enough for me to see or achnowledge them after the "event". The few times the VSC has activated on my RX I was a tad to busy to pay attention to which icon indications were illuminated on the dash and by the time I could looksee they were already extinguished.