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Toyota Sienna 2004+



  • jzwujzwu Posts: 10
    Thank you all your comments! Since I put safety ahead of anything else I think I will get the rear disc brakes with VSC and traction control.

    I have lost complete control on snow before in a FWD car and survived simply because the opposite traffic was stopped at a red light at the moment of the accident. Still shudder a lot whenever thinking back....
  • mk74mk74 Posts: 7
    OK. I've browsed through the manual, and have not found any references to the adaptive transmission (ECT-I).

    That's strange, because, for example, VW manual screams of it. They even have an 'instructional' video where they mention the 'learning tranny'. I'll have to browse through that manual and see if the learned stuff disappears when the juice is off.

    It does seem that the discharged/dead batteries would occur more often in the minivans/SUVs (more power usage, lights devices to forget to turn off, power sliding doors, radio, DVD, etc). It never is fun not to be able to start your car, but when your car doesn't drive as it used to after a battery replacement, it may add another ounce of frustration, IMHO.

    Anyway, that's not a big deal to me since I only drive Sienna on occasions, so it won't learn my driving habbits. But it is nice to know that dead battery might = different driving characteristics. I'll just have to warn my wife.

    Are there any tools/devices made that allow you to replace the battery and preserve information (other then 9v battery to the power port)?

    Thanks for all of the replies and corretions.
  • shuedshued Posts: 107
    I try to use after market alloy wheels. At market, it will cost about $250 to buy four alloy wheel. If with four new tires, it will cost about $450. To buy OEM four alloy wheel will cost $800. My van has tire warning gauge. Do any one know how this work? does there have any sensors on the OEM steel wheels now? Does the sensors can be moved to the after market alloy wheels? Thanks.
    Old question, does any one have installed OEM fog lights on LE trim?
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    who believes in the advantages of AWD and/or 4WD doubt that FWD or FWD biased AWD is inherently unsafe?

    If it's a good, even excellent, idea to distribute engine drive torque across all four contact patches then why isn't allocating drive traction to one set of tires and directional control traction to another a much better, and clearly safer idea, that asking a single set of contact patches to handle both drive traction and directional control traction requirements?

    What would the argument be if we had FWD cars with rear wheel steering?
  • steverstever Posts: 52,572
    I don't believe FWD is inherently unsafe.

    We've had this thread with you several times now Willard. No more. Enough. Finished. The end. Capice?

    Steve, Host
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Posts: 1,565
    You are missing the fact that the available traction(friction)is much less on the rear tires of a car than the front. With the weight bias to the front of any car or van with the engine up front, the traction available up front is much more than the traction available in the rear. Thus you can lose traction and the rear end can slide out of control quickly on rear wheel drive cars. Two wheel drive rear wheel drive only pickup trucks are the most notorious for this due to the extremely light rear end if they are carrying no cargo.

    You put all the engine torque to the rear where you have little traction and the rear end of your vehicle will easily swap ends with the front on slippery roads. When I was a teenager, we did it on purpose, making donuts this way to have fun in empty slippery parking lots. I also did it once, not on purpose, when on a freeway bridge that had iced up before the rest of the road. My rear wheel drive '72 Chevy paid the price at the end of the bridge as I slid into a highway sign sideways. My rear wheel drive right side rear axle, rear fender and rear window and my insurance company paid the price.

    Get into a front wheel drive car where you have the weight up front and directional steering control of the applied torque and it is difficult to even get the vehicle to spin out.

    I do believe wwest, that you apparently have never experienced a serious amount of winter driving in hazardous conditions, or you would not take the position that front wheel drive cars are somehow more unstable than rear wheel drive cars in slippery winter driving conditions.

    Back to Sienna, I will respond no more as I know it is useless to convince wwest otherwise. I just hate to see other people being misled by misinformed postings.
  • steverstever Posts: 52,572
    No more. Enough. Finished. The end.

    Search for "wwest" if you must have more.


    Steve, Host
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Posts: 1,565
    I agree. You posted your cease and desist order #1556 while I was composing my response to Willard. Case closed.
  • Hi, I'm planning on buying a Sienna LE with option #7 and I'm trying to get quotes from three dealers. What fees are legit and not legit when all is said and done? Are there really document fees? I've done a ton of research on the van but not so sure of what to expect when it's time to sign the papers. I just need some good advice on this part about what's real and what's garbage.

  • stickguystickguy Posts: 25,303
    I still remember driving my all drum brake Duster through a large puddle, and then right through a stop sign since I had zero braking ability, so you will be hard pressed to convince me that drums are better in the wet.

    I fell better now, so carry on.

    2015 Hyundai Sonata 2.4i Limited Tech (mine), 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's) and 2015 Jetta Sport (daughter's)

  • nematodenematode Posts: 448
    DO NOT get caught in that trap. They are only two things you need to worry about:
    1) The OTD (out the door price) of your van thats inclusive off ALL fees, dealer prep, destination, etc. If a dealer will not give you an OTD price just move on to another dealer who will. If a dealer does not stick to the original OTD price just walk out. It really does not matter if dealer A charges $250 in fees if you get the car there for $1000 less than dealer B.

    vechicle cost + ALL fees (taxes, tags, licence should be the same at all dealers in state) = OTD price

    Its the only price you should compare.

    2) If you have a trade there is a step #2. Get estimates from each of the dealers and figure out which one resuts in the least out-of-pocket for you.

    OTD price - trade = what you pay. Just take the lowest one or the closest one with a good price.

    Additionally, I suggest you call/e-mail more like 5-10 dealers and pick the best 1 and have 2 as back-ups. If they will not give you phone quotes or want you to come in to "discuss" then just move on. Its really not worth the trouble. There are many dealers that will give you e-mail/phone quotes and even estimates for your trade AND stick to it.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    OTD price is THE ONLY price that can be compared one dealer to another.
         Make sure the OTD includes ALL Taxes, License Fees, and everything else.
         Too many dealers advertise very low prices and then the fine print mentions rebates and incentives that most people can not get. Most dealers that advertise they have the lowest prices are usually the most crooked.
  • steverstever Posts: 52,572
    Unless you are also price shopping out of state - in that case you have to make sure you account for your costs when you register your new van in your home town.

    Toyota has a couple of captive distributors in the southern tier of states, so it helps to shop out of state if you live down there.

    Search SET or Gulf States for more details and don't overlook the Toyota Sienna: Prices Paid & Buying Experience discussion. In any event, focusing on the bottom line keeps you from bogging down on the line items and helps get you the best OTD price.

    Steve, Host
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    Disc brake rotors are fully out there in the open, subject to getting wet in the lightest rainfall. While drum brakes are not sealed by any means they are enclosed such that you most likely need to immerse then in water, as you did, in order to decrease their decidedly lower innate braking HP.
  • olizerolizer Posts: 38
    You're killing us WWest. You've convinced us - now convince yourself!
     PS: I totally disagree with you.
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    Disc brakes leave a much greater build up of grime on the wheels than do drum brakes. FWD vehicles really do not need disc brakes on the rear as front wheels contribute most to the actual stopping of the vehicle.
  • So, are you saying the only fees I should pay other than destination are tax, title, license? And thanks for the great info about calling/email about my trade. I've been under the assumption you don't mention it till the end but I need to know who will give me the highest trade value. I never knew why you don't mention it but now I do--they make another profit off it!
  • hansiennahansienna Posts: 2,312
    And it should NEVER be added to any sales order.
         Dealers usually make MUCH more profit on selling used vehicles than selling the new ones.
  • steverstever Posts: 52,572
    Starting February 19, you will need to log in using your email address rather than your Town Hall username. Please update your email address if it has changed since you registered.

    (yep, you too Buckeyedon).

    Steve, Host
  • nematodenematode Posts: 448
    Note quite. I'm saying it does not matter what fees they charge. All you want is the OTD price inclusive of EVERYTHING. So the fees each dealer charges really dont matter.

     I have seen advertising fee, special delivery fees, dealer prep fee, and most are bogus but I really dont care and neither should you. Its the final price AFTER all the fees that I(you) really care about. All you want is an dead final OTD price so you can go in pre-approved and just write them a check and leave with your car or sign the paper work to get your car. Its a littler more tricky with a trade but the same principle applies.

    The dealer I got my XLE AWD from gave me an OTD price that included a $90 processing fee and a "fair" price for my trade. Some dealers offered more for my trade but the overall out-of-pocket was more for me because their price or fees were higher. Its why the numbers for each dont matter. Its only the whole that matters.

    The same applies for the warranty they will offer you. If you are going to get one then that should also factor into the whole.
  • Thanks for the great advice about OTD. It's what I'll be looking for and I won't be afraid to walk away--I've done it before. I am trying to get as much info over the phone as I can. One dealer said they're not dealing on the Siennas. I'd imagine it's going to be like that all over. What are your thoughts on extended warranty? I think I'm going for an LE with option package 7. I wanted a base model XLE but I guess you have to get an option package with it? Is that correct?
  • I owned a 99 Odyssey with rear drums and just bought a 2004 Odyssey which now has rear discs. I can't really tell any difference. These vans are fairly heavy and front weight biased so the front discs will do the lion's share of the work. I only replaced the drum shoes once on my Odyssey at 150,000 miles and that was just because we couldn't get them to stop screeching even though they were worn only 50% through. I would assume the Toyota would be similar. I wouldn't pay for an option package to get the rear discs, unless you really wanted the other stuff in the package.
  • Dealers often make more on your trade than they make on selling the new car. If your trade has reasonable value, try selling it first. Compare average private seller retail price to average dealer trade-in prices. $2000 or more in difference is not uncommon. On the other hand, if you have a heap, then they might be doing you a favor to take it as they will just send it to the next auction.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    For anyone interested I have reposted my statements on FWD safety on "problems & solutions" for the 04+ sienna under maintainance and repair.
  • kmeadkmead Posts: 232
    It is possible to order a XLE with no options, several people have done so, at least one here and one at another Sienna site.

    The LE with option 7 is a really great package as it gives you all the safety features you should really have.
  • jmessjmess Posts: 677
    So as long as you don't tow anything or load up the backend with people and/or things you should be fine with drum brakes. You don't want to upset the front to rear weight distribution. You definetly don't want the best brakes you can get. Good enough should be fine.
  • kmeadkmead Posts: 232
    Disc brakes are a nice feature, but they are not entirely needed on any front wheel drive vehicle. The rear brakes provide less than 20% of the braking.

    The primary reason Toyota adds discs to the rear is when the vehicle is equipped with VSC (vehicle stability control). Disc brakes can react much quicker to the inputs the VSC system uses to control the attitude of the vehicle.

    As was pointed out, drums can last much longer and generally require much less maintenance. A well designed braking system can use disc/drum or disc/disc and provide more than enough braking power for the uses the vehicle is rated for.

    Before belittling others and their real experience, it might be nice if you were speaking from a position of real knowledge. Misleading people with erroneous information is not helpful.
  • jake696jake696 Posts: 111
    ...are a pain to replace, a pain to keep properly adjusted (I despise that "star wheel")and are not as efficient as disc brakes. This almost sounds like a wwest argument! Have you ever worked on them KMead?
  • steverstever Posts: 52,572
    Some of us frugal types think rear drums are cheaper to maintain, and as others have mentioned, the front brakes do most of the work anyway. Unless the stopping differences are radically different, I'd just as soon have rear drums. VSC would be nice to have though.

    Steve, Host
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    Rear drum brakes have been self-adjusting for about twenty years now. Except for replacement time.
This discussion has been closed.