15 Rogue AWD SL Premium lease. Did I get screwed?

15rg

So the sales GM of this particular dealer has leased my stepmother her last 5 cars, my dad his last two, my girlfriend's dad his current 2015 Rogue SL base, and he has leased me my last vehicle (2012 Rogue SL AWD) and now my current 2015 Rogue SL AWD Premium.....

The GM told me that he was giving me the vehicle for invoice..... I also traded in my 2012 Rogue SL AWD early with $1690.30 negative equity.

I signed the papers and took delivery of the vehicle on April 29th, but I have this unsettling feeling in my stomach that I can't shake and I feel like I am paying too much for this vehicle... Please help me decipher this:

I put $2650 down and I'm paying $460 per month. To me it just doesn't make sense...

This is what it says on my contract:

Agreed upon value of this vehicle: $31683.42 (I could have sworn it was supposed to be $30900)
Neg equity (written as sales tax?): +$1690.30
Acquisition: +$595
Prior credit/lease balance (should be sales tax) +$1169.80

Total Gross Capitalized Cost: =$35138.52

Capitalized cost reduction: -$2543

Adjusted Capitalized Cost: =$32604.52

Residual Value: $17710.80

Depreciation and Any Amortized Amounts: $14893.72 (I don't understand why this is so high)
Rent charge: + $1666.28

Total of Base Monthly Payments: =$16560

Total Monthly Payment: =$460

Amount due at signing or delivery:
Cap cost reduction including net trade in allowance: $2534
First monthly payment: +$460
Registration fees: +$233.50
Tire Fee: +$12.50
Doc Fee: +$75
Inspection Fee: +$10

Total: =$3325

Rebates and non-cash credits: $675
Amount to be paid in cash: +$2650
Total: =$3325

Total of payments: $19820

Estimated fees and taxes: $1712.80

Considering my lease is with 18,000 miles per year, there is a part of the lease that states I have 18,000 miles per year... HOWEVER, just under that it says "This mileage includes 9,000 miles over the term of the lease purchased at 15".

I'm assuming that means $.15 per mile.

If you multiply 9,000 x .15, that equals $1350... I have no idea how they got 9,000 miles? I'm assuming they are making me pay for the difference between 12k miles and 18k miles... But that is only 6000 x .15 which equals $900... So if I am not mistaken, they are charging me $450 extra for "mileage"....


So as you can see, I am paying quite a lot for a $31,000 car. I am no accountant (obviously), but I've looked at a ton of sites that explain how to calculate a lease, and I've calculated this lease to the best of my ability using those formulas a few times, and I have yet to come to $460 as a result of my calculations...

From where I'm sitting, there seems to be about $25-45 per month (or $900-1600 over 3 years) that I cannot account for and I have a fear that it may be "hidden" in all of these numbers..... There is, of course the chance that I am wrong, but these numbers just seem so high.

Please help me out and tell me if I'm getting screwed or if somehow this seemingly astronomical monthly payment is actually completely correct.

Thanks in advance!

kyfdx

@15rg A lot going on here, and it's hard to sort out everything, given the negative equity, etc..

But, here are some points.

1) 9000 extra miles. Standard mileage allowance is 15K/yr.. to go to 18K/yr for 3 years is 9000 extra (45K vs. 54K total miles). And, you aren't paying the $1350 upfront... It reduces the residual by $1350. So, the extra amount is included in the lease payment, over the term of the lease

2) You didn't provide the MSRP, so doing exact calculations is hard, but it appears the numbers are pretty close

3) The depreciation amount is just the difference between the adjusted cap cost and the residual. It's high because you rolled in negative equity. Also, as you noted.. the agreed on value is higher than what you agreed to. It doesn't look like you got a very good selling price. (unless the agreed on value includes the acquisition fee, maybe?)

The negative equity alone is adding $50/mo. to the price. The Rogue isn't the cheapest car to lease out there, but you are adding negative equity and driving it 54K miles, so nothing is going to be cheap.. You didn't get ripped off, but you didn't get the "deal of the month", either.

15rg

Sorry, The MSRP is $33400

And the agreed upon selling price doesn't include the acquisition fee. They rolled that in on top of it. The $675 rebate would have brought it to $31008 but they seem to have used that $675 for fees instead

15rg

Is there a way for me to change this over to a finance right now?

Michaell

15rg said:

Is there a way for me to change this over to a finance right now?

If you've signed the paperwork and taken delivery, I think it will be difficult to switch from a lease to a straight purchase. But, it can't hurt to call the dealer and see what they have to say.

15rg

Yeah I've had the car almost a week now

15rg

Ok so they made a mistake on the mileage charge and now I have 3 options... 
1 keep the lease at 18k miles per year and my payment will be $444
2 make the lease 15k miles per year and my payment will be $422
3 Finance the car at 0% Apr

Is financing or leasing better? I tend to get rid of my cars every 3 years on average anyway... Not sure if I will like the new Rogue enough to keep past that point...

15rg

Another thing that is bothering me is that the true car price for a 2015 Rogue SL AWD Premium with the crosshairs, chrome rear bumper applique, cargo shade, and splash guards (like mine) is $29628.... I got mine for $31683 (plus with $675 rebate it kind of comes to $31008 even though they used the $675 for fees instead of selling price)... 

Even so, that's $1400 over True car price. Since the contract has to be drawn up again anyway, I'm going to go in there tomorrow and show the true car price to the GM. 

Thoughts?

15rg

Bump

Michaell

15rg said:

Another thing that is bothering me is that the true car price for a 2015 Rogue SL AWD Premium with the crosshairs, chrome rear bumper applique, cargo shade, and splash guards (like mine) is $29628.... I got mine for $31683 (plus with $675 rebate it kind of comes to $31008 even though they used the $675 for fees instead of selling price)... 

Even so, that's $1400 over True car price. Since the contract has to be drawn up again anyway, I'm going to go in there tomorrow and show the true car price to the GM. 

Thoughts?

The simple fact that you are getting another bite at the apple, so to speak, puts you far ahead of most folks who buy a car.

At the end of the day, I don't make decisions about other people's money. There are advantages and disadvantages to both buying and leasing - I lease my car while we bought my wife's. It depends on how often you trade, your driving habits, how well you take care of your car and, most importantly, what you're comfortable with.

15rg

I went in and told the GM about the true car price and he told me that with the 3 year free maintenance plan and the free rubber floor mats and front window tint I asked him for, that is "eating up" all of the hold back on the vehicle which he said is $700-something... He said that because of this he is not going to go under invoice and he also said that true car is just an estimate until you get to the dealer. How are people getting their 2015 Rogue SL AWD Premiums for under $30k? My MSRP was $33400 and the invoice is $31683 (according to the GM). With the $675 rebate Is get for leasing, I'll be at $31008. Does this sound like a good deal or just an OK deal? Also, they gave me the new contract to sign and I haven't yet, because the numbers don't add up for me. These are the verbal numbers... The new contract actually has different numbers but the same monthly payment. For insurance, when I calculate the lease myself using Edmunds' formula, my tax and Rent charge numbers are lower.... And so is the monthly payment. Can someone who is more up on this stuff please calculate the lease for me and tell me what I should be paying?

Thanks!

 MSRP. $33400 Residual. @ 57% $19038 Agreed upon Sales price. $31683 Sales tax. $1647 Rent charge. $1672 Negative equity. $1691 Mileage (18k) $900 Fees. $550 Acquisition fee. $595 Rebate. $675 Down payment. $2650 Final monthly payment. $446.31 per month

Michaell

15rg said:

I went in and told the GM about the true car price and he told me that with the 3 year free maintenance plan and the free rubber floor mats and front window tint I asked him for, that is "eating up" all of the hold back on the vehicle which he said is $700-something... He said that because of this he is not going to go under invoice and he also said that true car is just an estimate until you get to the dealer.

How are people getting their 2015 Rogue SL AWD Premiums for under $30k? My MSRP was $33400 and the invoice is $31683 (according to the GM). With the $675 rebate Is get for leasing, I'll be at $31008.

Does this sound like a good deal or just an OK deal?

Also, they gave me the new contract to sign and I haven't yet, because the numbers don't add up for me. These are the verbal numbers... The new contract actually has different numbers but the same monthly payment. For insurance, when I calculate the lease myself using Edmunds' formula, my tax and Rent charge numbers are lower.... And so is the monthly payment.

Can someone who is more up on this stuff please calculate the lease for me and tell me what I should be paying?

Thanks!

 MSRP. $33400
Residual. @ 57%
$19038

Agreed upon
Sales price. $31683
Sales tax. $1647
Rent charge. $1672
Negative equity. $1691
Mileage (18k) $900
Fees. $550
Acquisition fee. $595

Rebate. $675
Down payment. $2650

Final monthly
payment. $446.31 per month

36/15 numbers for the Rogue SL AWD are 57% and .00092.

If we add up all the costs, that takes us to $37,066 (didn't add rent charge; that get calculated later). Subtracting the rebate and down payment takes us to $33,741. With the MSRP and lease numbers provided, I get a payment of $456.97 - a little bit higher than the dealer quote, but pretty close.

Is it a good deal? Have you used the pricing tools at the top of the page to help? (make / model / year). Ultimately, I don't make decisions about other people's money - only you can decide if it's a good deal for you.

15rg

I went back and told him to keep the tints and floor mats and give me the $300 for that, and I told him about a discrepancy between his tax figure and my tax figure and it turns out the finance guy made the tax spread over the whole lease instead of being paid up front... In turn, the manager adjusted it and NOW, my payment is $432 per month. Imagine that.....

Apparently that tax trick is a way for them to make money on the back end. 

I still haven't signed the papers yet. Still thinking things over.

vgebel

I live in MIssouri purchased my AWD SL Premium Pkg for 28,500. Had to do a lot of back and forth negotiating but finally got them down. If I was active military and in college I would had had more off. 

15rg

How did you get it so low? And what was MSRP?

15rg

So I decided to lease it with 18k miles per year at $432.43 per month. If I financed it for 5 years, by the time 3 years came around, I'd have spent about $4200 more than if I leased for 3 years. 

Leasing will cost me more in the long run though because the buyout at the end of the lease ($18160) plus tax plus what I'd have already paid over the first 3 years will cost me approx. $1000-$1500 more than if  I just purchased it now and paid it off in 5 years.

So what I'm going to do is take that $4200 (savings in first 3 years) and invest it or put it into my business with the intention of having  it make more money for me, this way in 3 years I've got more options, or at least won't feel so bad about the higher buyout price of my lease if I choose to buy it.

15rg

Is it normal for a lease+buyout to cost $1000-$1500 more than just financing to begin with?

15rg

Actually it's about $2k more overall. Normal?

Michaell

15rg said:

Is it normal for a lease+buyout to cost $1000-$1500 more than just financing to begin with?

Most people lease with the intention of returning the car at the end of the lease term. Lease + buy is usually more expensive than a straight purchase. And, when you buy at the end of the lease, it's a used car, so the interest rate is usually higher.

15rg

According to my calculations, to finance it at 0% Apr with sales tax, my negative equity, a $250 rebate, and $312 in fees, It comes out to $36000 give or take a couple hundred.

To lease it, $432.43 x 35 months + My $2650 Down equals $17785. Residual is $18160 and purchase fee is $300. Add tax to that and all together it comes out to $37856.

37856-36000= $1856 more to buy at lease end.

Michaell

15rg said:

According to my calculations, to finance it at 0% Apr with sales tax, my negative equity, a $250 rebate, and $312 in fees, It comes out to $36000 give or take a couple hundred.

To lease it, $432.43 x 35 months + My $2650 Down equals $17785. Residual is $18160 and purchase fee is $300. Add tax to that and all together it comes out to $37856.

37856-36000= $1856 more to buy at lease end.

If you buy at the end of the lease, will you pay cash for it, or will you finance? You have to pay interest on the $18,160 as well.

Which is why you should buy the car if the plan is to keep it longer than 3 years.

15rg

My plan is to pay cash if I buy at the end of the lease. I'd like to see how the vehicle holds up over the 3 years before I make the decision to buy. I love it right now, but I'd like to see if I Still feel the same after 3 years of NYC miles.

As far as changing the contract, it is now too late from what I understand. I believe the dealer sent the contract back into Nissan yesterday.

I've read that in some cases, if you reach the end of your lease and the residual is more than the true value of the vehicle (what you can buy an identical used one for), then if you offer the leasing company between what they get at the auction for it, and true market value, Sometimes they negotiate and they may accept your offer.

Ever hear of this?

Michaell

15rg said:

My plan is to pay cash if I buy at the end of the lease. I'd like to see how the vehicle holds up over the 3 years before I make the decision to buy. I love it right now, but I'd like to see if I Still feel the same after 3 years of NYC miles.

As far as changing the contract, it is now too late from what I understand. I believe the dealer sent the contract back into Nissan yesterday.

I've read that in some cases, if you reach the end of your lease and the residual is more than the true value of the vehicle (what you can buy an identical used one for), then if you offer the leasing company between what they get at the auction for it, and true market value, Sometimes they negotiate and they may accept your offer.

Ever hear of this?

Years ago, you used to be able to negotiate the selling price of the vehicle at the end of the lease, if the car was worth less than the residual value on the contract.

Now, the leasing companies (NMAC, in this case), have insurance policies that make up the difference between those two values, so they are less likely to negotiate with the customer.

15rg

Damn. Well I guess one way to look at it is that even with the $~2k more, it will still be cheaper to buy it at the end of lease than to purchase a brand new one after leasing this one for 3 years.

I guess I'll have to see where I'm at when the time comes.

Michaell

15rg said:

Damn. Well I guess one way to look at it is that even with the $~2k more, it will still be cheaper to buy it at the end of lease than to purchase a brand new one after leasing this one for 3 years.

I guess I'll have to see where I'm at when the time comes.

Correct, but the gamble is whether the residual value at the end of three years is aligned with the market for 3 year old Rogues. If the market is stronger, you benefit; if not, you don't.

I have the same decision coming up next year. I'm in a lease of a Hyundai and I'm torn as to whether to buy it in 18 months, turn it in and lease another Hyundai, turn it in and lease another brand, or trade the car in and deal with the positive or negative equity with the next transaction (probably another lease).

15rg

True... The only way for it to make any sense at that point would be to keep it for at least another 3 years after that id imagine.

If you don't mind me asking, why is it that you are leasing and not buying?

Michaell

15rg said:

True... The only way for it to make any sense at that point would be to keep it for at least another 3 years after that id imagine.

If you don't mind me asking, why is it that you are leasing and not buying?

I gifted my old car to stepson and his wife so I needed a cheap lease. Got more car by leasing instead of buying. 

We bought my wife's new car a few months ago however. It's all about the circumstances. 

15rg

Yeah that's understandable. My last car (2012 Rogue) was $307 per month so I was really hoping not to jump too high with my monthly payment. That's why $4×× was more attractive than $5xx. In the meantime I can use that savings to invest or better my business, and hopefully turn it into more so that by the time 3 years comes I won't even care about the $2k discrepancy...