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Comments
Maybe it comes down to this. Everyone prefers the most reliable car possible, or,to put it another way, nobody wants to pay for repairs.
However, if the pure pleasure of driving is more important, and if you factor in superior engineering, safety, low cost lease or low depreciation rate, the feeling of a car that has some spirit and is not just an appliance...well, if these things are important, then what's a few hundred bucks a year in repairs. You might even keep the car longer or buy it back after the lease because you don't get tired of it.....in other words it could cost less because you will keep it longer. (I had a 10 year Mercedes loaner once and I would buy that over most new cars).
Many people get a lot of joy out of trying to buy the most efficient vehicle possible and if they base their decision on practicality then they have to decide what is the base limit of their practicality. If they believe there is joy in the feeling you get from the engineering and beauty and spirit of the vehicle I think you would go with the X3.
I agree, nothing wrong with a Timex. I have had many myself, but my wife got me a (designer watch to embarassing to say the name) so I wear that!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
My ski buddy has a nephew who is a BMW mechanic. He loves the cars and talked his father into flying to Bavaria to pick one up. But, he advises selling them after the free repair period (4 years, right?) since after warranty repairs tends to be expensive. His Dad will keep his longer than that, but it helps when your son is working for the dealer.
Really? You really think the manufacturer "respects" you, cares about you, wants you to be safe and sound, nice and happy?
You wouldn't think, by any slight chance, that they only want your money? :surprise: You want safety, so they build safety. If enough people wanted, oh say, a big red gumball on top of the hood, out of "respect" for them, what do you think would start showing up on cars??! :P
Perhaps the analogy with watches isn't really all that good. I can think of only three criteria that are important in deciding which watch to buy - reliability, cost and style - in that order. On the other hand, there are probably dozens of factors that go into one's car purchasing decisions.
I have yet to see a single web site devoted to comparing watch brands (there may be but I just haven't seen any) while automotive sites come in all sizes, flavors and hues.
tidester, host
Tercel was a Timex! It was crumpled from the front end right up to the windshield. The radiator was detached, but the headlights still lit up and the engine though it took a lickin, kept on tickin. He drove it off the road and onto a parking lot.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I might do that, on the other hand, the older BMW's get, the more beautiful they become (better with age). Few cars look better than a 10 or 20 year old BMW or Mercedes. So, you could save money or at least have a real show piece and it might cost less than trading every 3 or 4 years.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Yes I do. i think European car makers take pride in their craftsmanship. If it didn't sell more cars they might not bother, but I think they do want to make the car as technologically advanced and engineered the best it can be within the price range. I believe this because they study accidents to try and make the car more crash worthy.
On the other hand you have a Monte Carlo which doesn't even offer side-airbags. They just have to try to sell what they can and not spend any money to update it.
I like the idea of that round red light on the hood though!!
My brother tried all kinds of smaller cars. Even Toyotas you had to pay extra for ABS. He bought a Jetta because ABS is standard equipment. VW could have made the car cheaper by leaving ABS as an option, but I think it would be embarassing to them.
I'm not saying BMW cares about me really when it comes down to it. But, I think in the case of the Monte Carlo they show no respect or pride in their workmanship if they sell a car without as many safety devices as possible in this day and age. I give VW a lot of credit for making ABS standard equipment even though others leave it out to make their price lower. It isn't really respect for their customers in the sense that they really care, but they take enough pride...or maybe don't want to be embarrassed, that they try to make a car as safe as possible, whereas GM can put a car on the market which shows total disrespect for the customer.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I think you are right on with this synopsis, I will keep it mind when I buy my next watch!!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
The speculation that was somewhat criticized for being too general and was, apparently, most supported is that those who gravitate to Japanese cars do so for reasons other than "the experience behind the wheel" often for reliability and durability (and ability to bypass service intervals without too many consequences.) Those who seem to embrace the German cars are wont to talk about their cornering capabilities and mostly aspects of the driving experience.
Japanese car buyers seem to (generally) want as much isolation as possible from sound and feel -- an observation that those who buy the Japanese brands often talk about how quiet and comfortable they are, rarely mentioning how a certain corner can be taken at triple the posted speed with aplomb and with a downshift at the apex and a full-throttle controlled exit (perhaps with a hint of throttle steering to boot.)
American car buyers often are quick to indicate a certain sense of Pride in the ownership of an American product -- and often are quite happy to discuss straight line acceleration. It is difficult to evoke much conversation about "driving" or the more visceral (other than straight line "git up and go!")characteristics of "the automobile" from American or Japanese owners.
These days, much of the American car talk is around the new holy grail: third row seating, and the refinement of many of the American SUV's and pickup trucks.
Sporting Sedan owners and shoppers seem keen to wax poetic about German driving 'sheens -- not so much the Japanese and American owners and shoppers.
None of these owner traits is wrong or bad, nor is one better than the other -- what is important is what will make you a satisfied, happy and enthusiastic owner. What will make YOU rebuy the "country of origin."
It is damn near impossible to get "unhooked" -- and this is due in large measure, I think, to the match of "your personality" and the "car's country of design, engineering and even build somewhat."
The Infiniti M35X impressed me MOST as the closest to the German "feel" and I almost bought one -- at the last minute, I went back to Audi and got an A6. After numerous Audis, three TT's in a row in fact, my wife shopped Japanese, American and German and pretty much had decided to go with an A4 3.2, until she drove an X3 3.0 with the sport package and the 6 speed manual.
It was all over then.
We had driven the 330xi, the G35X, the Acura TL, the Mercedes C AWD version, a Saab, a Cadillac SRX, a Jeep Grand with the HEMI and on and on and on.
The SRX with MagnaRide -- still even NOW -- believe it or not was a pretty close second for my wife, the lack of a stick shift probably threw it to the X3. The Mercedes complete abandonment of sticks, too, ruled them out.
Even the 330xi cannot be had with a proper sport package, including sport suspension, seats, tires and wheels -- and servotronic, natch.
The X3 was not derived as far as I can tell from a truck -- it has crisp 3 series handling -- can be "dolled up" with the sport, lux and electronic bits lux and near lux buyers have come to expect. It has a smooth as BUTTA engine that with the 6 speed is not underpowered (as it is when equipped with the 5 speed stutter-tronic -- although this will be remedied in MY 2007 with the 6 speed Steptronic and the high output (non turbo version) of the 3.0 with at least 255HP and better gas mileage.)
If you are in lust with the Toyota you will probably not "get the X3" -- if you are a German car - type personality (way over generalized, I know) you will wonder "where's the beef" with the Toyota.
Both types of personalities are good, acceptable, moral, decent, frugal and in their own way "fun" even. But, the differences are real.
You probably won't enjoy the German car if you cut your teeth on Japanese cars and if your "crowd" is mostly full of Japanese car drivers. And, vice versa.
If your peer group is totally mini-vans and pick-em-up trucks the X3 will seem flimsy and not very capable.
The X3 is an SAV -- not an off-road SUV by any stretch.
It can run with the sport sedan crowd within limits, and can at least hang with the SUV's without embarrassing itself.
It is, however, mostly a sport sedan with some utility and space -- but it is most exciting when equipped with the stick. Virtually no one else offers this combination today.
I submit, that there is no Toyota that even comes close.
Conversely, if your "attitude" is more in keeping with Toyota's values and attributes, there is probably no way you will be happy with any BMW.
Get what is "you" that is. :surprise:
Conversely, if your "attitude" is more in keeping with Toyota's values and attributes...
In my experience, the Camry isn't exactly the quietest with respect to road noise nor even close to the most comfortable.
tidester, host
I think you put things accurately in perspective.
I read a review of a Solara in the newspaper and I think it was a good review of Toyotas and most Japanese cars. The Solara is really a 2 door Camry, in 4 cylinder form it has beautiful finish, all the safety features and packs a lot of value for the price, around $25,000 U.S. It is totally anemic, no get up and go if you need it, say to move into traffic, and it is bland. Too bland to for the writer to consider and the 6 cylinder models are only slightly better. Even the writer acknowledges that these cars are as dependable as a car can be, but it is no joy to drive. And, I saw a similar review for the Lexus RX300. Competent but no enjoyment in driving...and no feel of the road or cornering ability.
And hey, that is all some people need or want.
Me, I am truly enjoying the ride and as far as repairs, I'll take my chances and see what happens. I think the risk is well worth it. I have driven quite a few rentals and tried out a few other cars and SUV's, but the X3 is truly a unique experience.
(If I run into repairs down the road I will have no regrets, I will have loved and lost and I will try again, though it will be something else if that happens).
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I don't know 'bout that. We have a TL and a Mini, and they drive and steer and ride completely different. But I honestly say I enjoy driving both. Sometimes I appreciate the power and isolation of the TL, but sometimes I like the somewhat unrefined visceral nature of the Mini.
I think it's like food. I enjoy fine dining in posh restaurants as much as anyone. But sometimes a good old backyard BBQ, almost literally eating right off the grill, can also be as good as it gets.
My last driving tests were, Volvo XC70 2006 by 10 days (07/06). Before this I’m through the experience to participate in "Driven to Find a Cure" (06/06) and one of test was X5 3.0, that I can easily use to compare with my X3 3.0 Steptronic.
Before my X3, it was a Toyota 1996 RAV4 2.0, 5 speed, All wheel drive, 3 doors, 2.5 Tons or less (1996-2004) 120,000 miles.
Also, between the last mentioned, I drove a PT Cruiser Turbo 2006, Camry 2006, Taurus 2006 foo sh_t, and Grand Am 2006. But, it have no value to make a comparison with thems.
I’m always preferred to compare performance on cars and not the best bumpers or the best interiors.
My RAV4 was and amazing small SUV, it was fast for its weight and motor size and after change to the 3rd gear of course; it was also good in handling, moving on curves and in highway, and the best a lot of fun to drive it.
But with a lack of pep and no roaring.
The X5 3.0 experiences it was like be in a big boat with very big waves coming from the front. It was to slow, I tried using also the steptronic and it was no change in performance like I quickly feel on my X3. Same combination of motor and transmission on my X3.
But with a lack of pep and no roaring.
The Volvo XC70, 5 Cylinders Turbo, Automatic – something like Steptronic. The performance of this was just remind me driving my RAV4.
Lack of pep and no roaring.
To eliminate the possibilities that I’m not fare when I compare the performance of my X3 with the previously mentioned. I use a judge, my wife. She is not a car lovers, but she have a very good sense to compare, and she agree with me. The X3 is not good in performance, is Xtremelly good in performance.
Also, she degraded the X3 performance, but it was went we test the 550, 650 coupe, and 650 convertible. :sick:
03/04 X33.0 Alpine White, Montana Grey, Steptronic :shades:
BTW, what's "roaring"? :confuse:
The other part is that (speaking in an admittedly over generalized way) those who love reliability, isolation, and are a bit more casual about servicing and fiddling with their cars, may find the X3 (or any German car) less to their tastes than a Japanese car.
Conversely those who love being engaged, fully engaged in driving -- often characterized by the love of a manual transmission, for instance -- may find the Japanese car leaves them flat.
A great representation of the "tone" or attitude that identifies the driver/owner personalities can be found in the brand new Car and Driver magazine review of the new Lexus ES350.
The conclusion they reach is hardly a slam against the quality or value of the Lexus -- but it is an indication that those who want to be engaged with driving, may find such cars lacking in that certain je ne sais quoi.
Now as to the use of "roaring" -- I am wondering if you were pulling my leg, but I will take it on face value that you want to know:
Roaring:
1 a : to utter or emit a full loud prolonged sound b : to sing or shout with full force
2 a : to make or emit a loud confused sound (as background reverberation or rumbling) b : to laugh loudly
3 a : to be boisterous or disorderly b : to proceed or rush with great noise or commotion
4 : to make a loud noise during inhalation (as that of a horse affected with roaring)
transitive verb
1 : to utter or proclaim with a roar
2 : to cause to roar
YOur post reminded me of shopping for a minivan.
First off no german or swedish offerings. I always thought a VW or Volvo offering would be sweet!
Had to see the grand caravan and the dealer was so excited about "stow and go seating"! The space were all the seats can be folded into gives you storage! Like having a basement in the minivan. This was the big push, not the drivability or gerneral utility.
Honda made a nice pitch with its great engine and double wishbone suspension with is a great set up, but like all hondas are noisy down below!. We went with the Sienna which was the quietest and had the nicest interior. The lack of the Honda like suspension was not enough penalty as we wanted our minivan to be a certain way! quiet and insolated.
The point, we feel good about our japenese build minivan for the value they bring to the table. The american offerings just did not even come close to hitting our target. Gagetry does not work for us. even though we have the Sienna Limited which is about a Lexus when fully equipted. even has sonar based cruised control!
I won't drive anything but a german make for the reasons you very will mentioned. My friends whom are not teutonic belivers don't get the repair/maintence costs associated with the fit and finish and the ride charactoristics obtained in these vehicles.
some drive german makes for the prestige factors and still do. Many who derive the prestige factor above all have defected to Lexus and boast over how much less the cars need attention. My experince is the Lexus is almost perfection, but lacks soul! Lexus is the Caddilac for this generation. And there is nothing wrong with that at all!
The german car lover loves cars and loves the driving experience just a bit different than those whom drive other makes. Its not better, its not elitist, and it may be outright dumb (cost wise) but its the pleasure we derive and are willing to pay for.
I don't do drugs, don't drink or party. Never paid for a prostitute and don't gamble. I don't have a $50k home theature set up either. I don't modify either! My preference, and my drug is to drive an Audi or BMW!
I'm with you, very well said.
I don't think I could add anything except to say the X3 is meaningless to me as a status symbol. It is the finest vehicle I could ever want.
Just a bit of a story here. I told my wife if sales reached a certain level in my company I would buy a G Class Mercedes Benz, I kind of like the squarish look. Well, sales reached that level, but I couldn't bring myself to actually buy one of those vehicles (looks to [non-permissible content removed]-ish anyway). But, I did try the X3 and I can't think of anything I would have liked more...and it is less than half the cost of the G-Class (so that will go a long ways to paying for any repairs)!
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
No, I was not pulling anyone's leg. Juanchypr frequently punctuated his car reviews with the term "roaring", and I didn't know what exactly he was trying to describe! Did he mean the vehicle had wind noise, engine noise, a healthy engine tone, or was it an affectionate reference to the vehicle's machismo?! :confuse:
So...I guess your Friday nights are pretty quiet then!
Driving an Acura TL, you never going to feel what is the "roaring" and its not a "machismo".
Is when you start your car in the mornings and you can not do it with the garage door close, due to vibration that the compression of the motor created hitting in the door, or when you depart from a red light, in from of the pack with a very nice background of your motor.
Also, I not in love with my X3. People that enter on this forum the same that I did from the ends of 2003, is looking for commnets about a car that they want to buy or that they or really have, and want to know about too differents topics about the car.
At the beggining of the launch of the X3, most of the owners have problems with creaking doors, panoramic roof, black bumpers, interior design to cheap, but you never hear about mention problems with motors,, transmissions, CV joints, brakes, power sterring, thats mean that the car is realiable.
If the X3 is not a reliable car, take a look of this new;
http://www.greenvilleonline.com/apps...NESS/607290308
numbers talk by itself.
Thank you Mark to understand my words between lines,
Bargamon, also my wife drive is a 05/04 2004 Toyota Sienna LE, that is another kind of car with extremelly good realiable, and lot of fun driving it.
:shades:
juanchypr, try this sight again. I'd be interested in seeing what it says, but I can't get it to show up.
I like the "roar".
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
BMW could move X3 production to Greer
Demand for SUV has automaker weighing options, according to reports
Published: Saturday, July 29, 2006 - 6:00 am
By Jenny Munro
STAFF WRITER
jmunro@greenvillenews.com
BMW could move production of its X3 SUV to the Greer assembly plant within four years, a European trade publication reports.
Automotive News Europe reports that the German automaker is considering a couple of scenarios when it launches production of the second-generation X3 in about 2010.
The X3, the smaller of the company's SUVs, is presently assembled in Austria on a contractual agreement with Magna Steyr.
Production of the X3 could move to the United States and Germany from Austria -- and could conceivably be built solely at BMW Manufacturing Co. in Greer, according to Automotive News Europe.
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Plans are for a peak annual production of more than 160,000 units for the second-generation X3, according to Automotive News Europe.
BMW, which implemented a single assembly line this year, now has the capacity to produce about 590 vehicles a day, up from about 500 a day with separate lines for the X5 and Z4 roadster.
BMW Manufacturing spokeswoman Bunny Richardson said capacity, with normal shifts, probably is about 140,000 vehicles.
In 2003, the company produced more than 166,000 vehicles, meeting a request that it take up some of the slack when German plants were being renovated.
"It's speculative," Richardson said. "There have been discussions. The plant has not been directed in any way. There are no timetables on any of this."
It is not, however, a new concept.
Norbert Reithofer, who will become head of BMW AG on Sept. 1, said in 2003 that Greer "is the plant we're thinking of" when the X3's initial life cycle of about seven years is completed.
Richardson said splitting production would not be unusual, with the local plant assembling vehicles for the North American market and Germany producing vehicles for the European market.
That's the way initial production at the Greer plant began, with workers here building a 3 Series car for sale domestically.
BMW is leaning toward putting a third of its X3 production in the United States and two-thirds in Regensburg, according to Automotive News Europe.
Reithofer, who currently is the board member responsible for worldwide manufacturing, also announced three years ago that the local plant would produce the second-generation X5 when the time came for that launch.
Bobby Hitt, manager of public relations for the BMW plant, has said he expects the 4,500 employees to begin production of the second-generation X5 this year or in early 2007.
When Reithofer was visiting the Upstate, he said the plant could become the home of a third model and could expand to production of more than 200,000 vehicles. The Greer plant has been named the home of a new coupe-like crossover model, expected about 2008.
During a media briefing earlier this week with Helmut Panke, the current chairman, Reithofer told Boersen-Zeitung that if a production expansion were to come about, production at the Greer plant could increase from the current 140,000 units to about 200,000. However, he gave no timetable for an expansion.
"We are going to continue the successful journey of the BMW Group," Reithofer said, declining to speculate on production shifts of the X3.
The X3 has been a big seller since its launch in 2004. The company originally planned to sell about 40,000 X3s a year, but demand was higher. Magna Steyr built 112,800 units in 2004, the first full production year, according to the magazine.
The peak U.S. sales year for X3s was 2004, the year it was introduced and sold 34,604 units. Competition from other markets has held down the number sold in the United States, BMW officials have said.
:shades:
"vibration that the compression of the motor created hitting in the door" ?? For the love of Christ, get a hold of yourself!! :surprise:
Let's go easy, there! Not all members of the Forums speak English as their first language. I think what Juan means is that the garage door may act as a soundboard like on a guitar with the effect of amplifying the sound.
tidester, host
Yes, no doubt. But then again, my condo and resort club membership smack in the middle of one of the top-ranked ski resorts in North America also serve me nicely!! :P
Thank you Juan, I got to the sight this time and it was very interesting. First, I had no idea they were planning on making X5's and 3's in North America, and second and more important, looks like the X3 won't get a model change until 2010, which is quite a ways off.
I bought a fairly standard version because I was a little hesitant and it seemed expensive to me at the time, almost double the cost of a Jeep. If I could do it again I would get a lot more options. I probably would come out ahead because I would want to keep the car for another year or two or more, so I wouldn't take as much of a hit in depreciation and taxes etc. :P
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Maybe I should have mentioned that I'm looking at the X3 as a possible second car for utility and winter driving mainly. Hence why I want to be practical. My other car is a 2001 Saab 9-3 convertible. I'm not totally enamored with my Saab, but I am drawn to European cars for both their styling and performance. I chose the Saab over the BMW 3 series convertible because the dealer knocked $9,000 off the sticker price making it a bargain and the larger trunk.
As I've read mixed reviews on the X3 (mainly harsh ride, interior below typical Bimmer standards, slightly underpowered for "sport" vehicle, poor gas mileage and reliability), I'm mainly looking for feedback on X3 owners experiences. I hope all of these negatives are cured with the 2007 update. (I'm really interested in gas mileage figures, but all I'm hearing is "improved" from what was terrrible, in my opinion, for a smaller SAV.) I think consumers have a right to, and should, demand improvement in lagging areas even though a product has excellent attributes in most areas. In other words, I unequivically reject the notion that it acceptable for BMW products to lag in some areas (say, realiability) because it delivers so well in others. I know this is an X3 lovers website, but surely you can offer an objective, critical opinion without losing your love! ButI digress.
I am leaning towards buying the X3 (that's why I'm here!), but obviously must wait a few more months for the 2007 model. As I'm looking to own the vehicle longer term (say 8 to 10 years), do you think it would be a good idea to purchase a long-term service warranty? Do you know the cost of these? Also, does intended long-term ownership make leasing a less attractive option?
Thanks for your comments.
Too bad I have to sell the house to cover my drug rehab bill!
Reality is, I don't have such a property, Just being sarcastic.
Funny, your one line really tells alot about yourself.
Now I'm wondering what it would say about me if I asked that we all get back on topic?
tidester, host
It would say that you are a good host, on top of things!
:shades:
First, would you do that again? Sometimes it is better to get what you really want. You might keep it longer, be more satisfied, and get a better trade in.
As I've read mixed reviews on the X3 (mainly harsh ride, interior below typical Bimmer standards, slightly underpowered for "sport" vehicle, poor gas mileage and reliability),
Harsh ride is not a negative if you like a firm ride...I like it. I don't like that phony floating feeling. The interior could be jazzed up a bit, but it is also timeless, will always be tasteful, it is certainly ergonomically correct, and I don't get tired of it. IMO the power is satisfactory for an SAV especially considering the weight, and the gas mileage is the best I know of for a vehicle with this much power and weight. I haven't had any problems mechanically in about 20,000 miles and hopefully I won't have any. My 1995 and 2000 Jeeps were rated as not that reliable and I didn't have any problems in about 70,000 miles.
I know this is an X3 lovers website, but surely you can offer an objective,
It would be nice to be able to design a car custom made to your own tastes. Since this isn't possible we choose the best we can...kind of like a mate!!! :
As I'm looking to own the vehicle longer term (say 8 to 10 years), do you think it would be a good idea to purchase a long-term service warranty?
Not my area of expertise but with my wifes Mercedes we didn't have to decide on a warranty until after the original (at that time) 3 years was up. We bought the extended warranty and never used it!!! :surprise:
Also, does intended long-term ownership make leasing a less attractive option?
If you are pretty sure you will be keeping the car for at least 5 years buy it. Leasing just pays the depreciation and then you will buy it back at a higher price than you would have paid it down to.
See whay others say. I was saying just today, I usually buy practical, but I am so glad I bought the X3, I would be missing out on a wonderful experience
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
The answer is "yes" get the BMW extended service/warranty.
My friend has an X5 -- and loves it -- trouble free, thus far. At 54K miles it needed new FRONT brakes -- $900, standard, normal, routine expense. It will be almost this much for the rears a few thousand miles down the pike.
He wishes he would've purchased the extended package offered by BMW.
These Germans, all Germans in fact, ARE breathtakingly expensive to maintain. God help you financially if something breaks (not that I am suggesting I think something WILL break.) :shades:
$900 for front brakes on an X5? That's ridiculous. Your friend gor hosed. Big time. I hope the Service Advisor kissed him and sent flowers the next day. My wife's E39 got new rotors, pads and parking brake shoes just before the PO traded it and our local BMW dealer charged him @$1000. A good indie BMW shop would be even less. My shop charged $550 for a four wheel brake job(BMW rotors, Axxis Pads) on my Club Sport, including a brake fluid flush using ATE Super Blue DOT 4 fluid.
These Germans, all Germans in fact, ARE breathtakingly expensive to maintain. God help you financially if something breaks (not that I am suggesting I think something WILL break.)
In my twenty three years of BMW ownership I haven't found that to be the case. Maintenance and repair costs for my 1995 104K Club Sport have averaged a bit under $40 per month. My wife's 1997 E39 hit 130K about a few months before we sold it and the maintenance and repair costs averaged $80 month. The only reason we sold it was because my wife wanted an X3 and at the time I needed to keep my US built Jeep TJ for PR reasons. In retrospect, I really wish that I had kept the 5er. FWIW, the new owner loves it(she bought it to replace her 300K E34 525i). Looking on the bright side, I'm now able to ditch the Jeep and very soon it is going on the block so that I can find a nice E36 or E46 to serve as my work sled.
My E24 M6 was a bit pricey to run, but even then the costs weren't that much out of line. I believe the most I ever spent on one shop visit was around $1200- and that covered replacement of the radiator, water pump, and PS pump. I still kick myself for letting that one go-though I did drive it for three years with zero depreciation.
As for my wife's 2004 X3, I'm not considering an extended maintenance plan. Nothing that I've learned about the car leads me to believe that it will be all that expensive to run. That said, I do think that the newer gadget filled cars such as the E60 and E65/66 will be expensive to maintain-primarily due to the sheer amount of their on-board electronics. Normal scheduled maintenance costs should not be that bad. In any event, keep talking up that "breathtakingly expensive" angle every chance you get; it might help depress the market for the non-CPO cars I'm looking at
Copy cat Korean makes look similar now in design and size, and new offerings from Acura are less expensive with more wiz bang techno for the money.
I keep reading in magizines whether applicable to the X3 or 3 series that: " for north of 40grand it does not have Navagation!!!" I read this over and over and somehow this has been the "IT" interior accessory!
For me, I don't own a X3 but might in a few months. Im glad the competition is available whether real or percieved. It keeps prices down and BMW to update its offering. For a modest increase in MSRP, the new engine and interior is a good value. Maybe the incentives will return if its not a hot seller. Besides, who else is going to make me a manual transmission vehicle like this?
Let the general buying public froth over GPS and boy racer video graphic glowing instriment dials. I'll take naturally inspired over turbo any day, row my own gears, and yes pay 10 grand more to get it!
A 5 series wagon will cost me almost 20 grand more than a similar equipped X3. Same engine, same xdrive! Not its not as refined but it represents a good value to me.
Question is if the 3 sports wagon ups its horsepower from the 325ix to the new 328ix as will be in the coupe, for the same money forgo the space for the drivablity of a 328 sportwagon for the same money? Or, with a spring time refresh of the 5 series make it interesting. I don't mind going above budget if its sweet enough to do so. 530ix sedan would work for me!
The total costs that were attributable to the brakes were over $800, he now informs me and the remaining charge was for an oil and filter change -- but the out of pocket at 54K miles was $900, he says. The amount for the brakes "exceeded" $800 -- he says he thinks the brake portion of the bill was "about $830 or $840."
The work was done at the BMW dealer and he was fine with the price -- until he figured out it was ONLY for the fronts.
We have had Audi's, BWW's and VW's -- and when the work is performed out of warranty and after the service advantage has expired, it "costs $100" just to say "hello" to the service tech (on the phone!)
Now, yes, that is for effect -- but the spirit of what I am suggesting is dead on.
I asked my friend "would you have the CPO'd version were you able to rewind to 49,999 miles and make the decision then?"
He says he even tried to get them to take the money for the extended service/warranty at 54K and BMW's policy won't allow it (and I do think that is true, Audi is the same way.)
Hosed? Probably. But he had never had anything other than free service on this vehicle and other than the fact that the brake service light came on on the dash, he said the car has been flawless and he would get another one.
He now knows whatI mean when I say "breathtakingly expensive."
His main issue was that he thought they said all four brakes, not just the fronts.
Audis do NOT require new rotors at the first pad replacment -- they can be "turned."
I assume BMW's way is superior -- I know it is more expensive.
I would go with the extended packages at either Gold or Platinum level and "fughettaboudit!"
It is very attractive in and out in high gloss black with a terracotta sport leather interior.
The dash board plastic is too grainy -- a nit. The 2007's have (or so the spy shots show) this addressed.
The 2007's also have body color bumpers and at least a 255HP engine and either 6spd auto or manual. 19" wheels are also an option.
The thing drives like a BMW CAR with sport suspension -- i.e., it is a firm and well controlled ride.
The uprated sound system and AGAIN ALL the high zoot options makes this little ugly duckling darn near a beautiful black, shiny black, swan.
It performs well and will only be better with the new interior and uprated engine and transmission.
This vehicle will most likely not appeal to someone who likes Acura's, Lexus cars or Cadillacs.
And, one would assume, vice versa in terms of appeal.
It is a German "car" wrapped in the body of an S A V, not S U V.
It never was a truck nor a Jeep.
If you have been a BMW fan -- however -- you may find a lot to like.
BMW dealers replace the rotors with each set of pads because in some cases the rotors will wear below their minimum thickness before a second set of pads is worn out. On my BMWs-including the tracked cars-I've always replaced the rotors at every other pad change with no problems whatsoever.
We have had Audi's, BWW's and VW's -- and when the work is performed out of warranty and after the service advantage has expired, it "costs $100" just to say "hello" to the service tech (on the phone!)
Now, yes, that is for effect -- but the spirit of what I am suggesting is dead on.
That's funny. My dealer only charged $110 to change the ATF AND the final drive oil in the E39. I doubt that the Jiffy Boobs would do it for much less. The service techs must see you and your friend coming.
He now knows whatI mean when I say "breathtakingly expensive."
He obviously doesn't know how to find a good independent BMW tech. On the later BMWs my indie shop charges around $95 for an Oil Service, $250 for an Inspection I, and $450 for an Inspection II- and that includes services that BMW no longer calls for, such as changing the gearbox and final drive oil as well as fitting a new fuel filter. In most cases, I will usually perform the Oil Service and Inspection I myself, but even if I had to pay the added $$$ for labor the prices aren't bad at all.
I would go with the extended packages at either Gold or Platinum level and "fughettaboudit!"
I prefer to spend my disposable income on much more entertaining items, such as my Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica. And of course there's my M1 Acquisition Fund. Now that is one BMW that IS expensive to maintain.
But who cares?
mark156, "Mercedes-Benz M-class (ML320, ML350, ML500 and ML55) 2005 and earlier" #7885, 18 Oct 2005 5:48 pm
Gotta pay to play I guess.
In other news, the SUV sales slump has hit BMW too:
BMW July U.S. sales fall 12% as SUVs weigh (MarketWatch)
That being said I do have one pratical question...my last car was a 5 speed manual and the X3 is 6 speed. The feel is very different though and I'm having trouble getting into first geaer without lurching. It's no problem if I take it real slow, but that's not always practical or desirable. What's the trick with this car or does it just take practice? Thanks.
It ain't no thang!
What color interior? Premium, sport, navi, sat radio, Servotronic?
Details, please!
Congrats.
:shades:
I for one dig what Chris Bangle has done and its obvious the sales are very strong the last few years.
I like the X3 alot and think it looks much nicer than the Infinity fx, the Lexus RX, but not the Mercedes ML. BUt there are not that many choices in the Smallish Suv market but Mazda and Acura are entering this year with nice attractive ones that will sell at about 10k under.
The Lexus to me is an awful vehicle to look at. It drives nice, but read my opinion on lexus in other forums. They are boring!
Shifting will take you some practice if you have not done it for a while or are new to it. Those smooth launches become a habit after a while.
I take exception too! What looks better???
First, it is the perfect size. The styling as with almost all BMW's and MB's will look good 10 and probably 20 years from now. It'simple, makes sense, no faddish items that you will get tired of.
My X3 is white and although I am in the minority I like the contrasting bumpers.
The X3 looks like it is in motion when it is standing still.
The kicked up rear quarter window is ingenious, it is a bold styling cue that alters the whole styling of the car, and is getting copied a lot.
Note too, large windows all around, you don't see that too much any more (you can actually put your arm on the window sill). Great sightlines to the fenders and in being able to judge the rear end.
I can't think of a vehicle that has all that, and that just covers the style.
From the headlights and grill to the rear tailights it is as good as an SUV gets!
(Personally and styling is of course personal, I don't think MB's Porche or the new Audi come close for styling)
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
World Numbers" and see how others are doing.
tidester, host
IT ain't like I called your sister ugly!
I like contrasting bumpers too. My Audi Allroad is full of them. My allroad is very similar to the objective of the X3 to me. Manual tranny, some off road capacity, and good utility. Both car based. The Allroad was better appointed inside.
The X3 remains high on my list. And the list only includes only BMW's.
But, in my opinion, if judging by interior and exterior styling only, the A6 quattro Avant (current model) is superior to the BMW 5 series wagon and for that matter (apples and oranges???) the X3.
Factor in drive train which is really important to me, the BMW pulls ahead.
I think a garage of a X3 and 335i coupe would be perfection!
If I had to select new BMWs, my choices would be the X5 4.8is and the M Coupe.
The interior is light gray leather, which I thought was a bit of an unusual departure but it works for me.
The shifting is getting smoother. I just need to drive more!
I like Audi's a lot, and I think the styling is slightly better than comparable BMW's.
My main concern is the reliability factor and the network of dealers.
I have sat in BMW 3's, 5's and 7's and although I would like the idea of going back to a car or wagon, I have become accustomed to the height and large windows in the X3. I find that with cars I am kind of sunk down inside and am peering out a port hole.
I have now had the second time experience of going to pass someone when they decided to veer into my lane just as I am approaching. I truly believe a lesser vehicle would not have braked so straight and quickly...and the all wheel drive keeps the car from skidding while swerving. We take these features for granted after awhile but the quality and safety of the X3 is another reason it is a terrific car.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250