Cadillac STS/STS-V: What's New for 2007?

mbukukanyau

Those GM accountants went to Business School, they know something about Marketing and Product differentiation.
I think the problem with GM employees is that they only drive GM cars and so, they really have no Ideas about their competition. Otherwise how could you explain the interior difference between a corolla and a Cavalier, or worse the current Seville and the Audi A6.

If they really intended to compete with these cars, they should be at least being seen to attempt to get there.

GM interiors are pathetic with the Exemption of the XLR. I wish they would get the Saab and Opel interior designers involved in the Cadillac and Buick interior designs.
This is somewhat out of topic, but, with some Modification, The Rainier could use the olds, Aurora Dashboard, with fewer plastics. The Aurora’s Dashboard is the best design I ever saw on an American GM car.
The 05 STS should really not be compromised in this area. They have to make sure, its something the Germans can't beat but emulate. How? Buy Audis for their interior designers. Let them drive the A6, let them feel the quality, and Let them build something better. Keep the accountants out of the Design equation.

theo2709

(http://bilder.autobild.de/bilder/1/41471.jpg)

It's amazing!

regfootball

a kind of interesting but derivitive design, but its obviously preproduction, as you can notice some sloppy assembly where the console meets the dash

not really original, not offensive. if the material quality is there it will be ok. doesn't look like an a6 challenger though. there really isn't any car yet that meet the overall appeal of the a6 interior for that price class.

theo2709

It also has push-button start. You can barely see it next to the left-side plank of wood. I bet libertycat would like this. Where did he go, anyway?

logic1

trim option. I like the design but cannot stand wood in my car

msgreen

great picture, many thanks! Can you also find a picture of the STS exterior? Not much floating around right now except heavily camoflaged pics and some photoshop stuff...

regfootball

"cannot stand wood in my car"

no corvette or XLR for you then, (balsa floor)

theo2709

That picture was taken during testing at Nurburgring, but the rest of the car was still camoflaged. I will post them if you want to see them:


(http://bilder.autobild.de/bilder/1/41466.jpg)


(http://bilder.autobild.de/bilder/1/41467.jpg)


(http://bilder.autobild.de/bilder/1/41468.jpg)


(http://bilder.autobild.de/bilder/1/41469.jpg)


(http://bilder.autobild.de/bilder/1/41470.jpg)

diablo4

I like that dual exhaust!The car looks nice, but I wonder how the rear lights looks. The one thing I hope is it doesn't look like the cts but larger.

diablo4

By the way how did you post the pictures Theo2709.I still don't know how to post them.

msgreen

these are some of the best (least camouflaged) that I have seen so far. First time I have seen the rear "wing" and exhaust, so again, thanks! Also, read in a car mag that the V8 for the STS is likely to be a 4.2L version of the Northstar instead of the 4.6L. Heard anything about that? The item said that the 4.2L would be tuned for about 300hp. Seems strange that Caddy would go to the expense/trouble to bring out another version of this engine. Size will be the same and power only 20hp less...seems hardly worth the effort unless there is more to this (or it is just flat wrong)......

theo2709

diablo-

You post pictures by doing this (exactly): img src="http://..." with < and > around it. The quotes stay there.

msgreen-

Yes there have been rumors about a 4.2L Northstar, but as of yet no reason as to why or how much power. People have been saying maybe they want it to have smoother operation and better fuel mileage. I guess they want it to run really smoothly and quietly to steal some of the BMW/MB/Lexus crowd. I guess we all have to wait until January!

logic1

Any of you see the Edmunds piece on the new 6 Series?

IMO, GM has to counter with either a coupe version of the STS or an exclusive coupe, as in a return of the Eldorado. That 6 is too nice to let go without a response.

mrmanguy25

"People have been saying maybe they want it to have smoother operation and better fuel mileage."

Smoother operation than the current Northstar? Please.

Besides that, there are several Northstar powered vehicles that get fuel economy ratings right up there with anything else in their class, if not better.

mrmanguy25

The interior of the A6 doesn't seem at all like anything that special.

http://www.audiusa.com/common/images/2004_gallery2_a642_lg.jpg

What's so great about that interior that makes the STS interior "not even a challenger?"

regfootball

YOU HAVE OBVIOUSLY NOT EVER SAT IN ONE THEN, HAVE YOU????

Audi's interiors are basically the gold standard. The new A8 I haven't sat in yet but is even more lusty than the A6.

diablo4

Audi's have one of the best interiors. After owning a audi I got a bmw and I thought the interior in my audi was better.

blkcadillac

Audi's interiors have GREAT craftsmanship but they still don't look that great. A LS430 built just as well looks wonderful than any Audi's interior. Audi's interiors are just not attractive. The 05' STS interior looks better than the 2004 A8, well the design looks better overall, but not better than the LS430. And yes I've been in several A6s and one A8. Just not crazy about Audis interior design.

regfootball

lexus makes nice interiors, but the designs are for the blue hair/ gold chain set.

mrmanguy25

OK fanboys... (regfootball, diablo)

blkcadillac has got it right.
Audi has excellent craftsmanship, but compared to the STS or Lexus, its interiors look almost plain.

After accusing me of not sitting in an Audi, I think you need to keep your tongue in check. Not only did I sit in one last week at an auto show, but YOU are judging the interior of the STS without sitting in one yourself. You're only looking at a preproduction model picture.

rayainsw

One thing a 4.2L version might offer (assuming a decrease in bore, not stroke) is additional material around each cylinder. This might offer additional durability for a S/C or (twin) turbocharged version - with (much) more than 300 hp.

Cheers,
- Ray
Just dreamin', I suppose . . .

theo2709

Well considering they had to downsize the Ecotec to 2.0L for the ION Red Line, maybe you're right Ray.

richw5

Originally, GM Powertrain developed 5 variants of the Northstar engine, called the Premium V Family. The 4.6 Northstar was assigned to Cadillac and the 4.0 was given to Oldsmobile. The other variants were not put into production.

Differences between the two; 93mm bore for the 4.6L and 88mm for the 4.0. It's possible that a 4.2L engine is one of the original variants or a new engine developed for high performance durability, as stated by Ray. The above information came from Bill Bobynski, of the GM powertrain organization.

If anyone looks carefully at theo2709's checkered STS, it's a possibility that the car shown is ths STS-V. Look at the V in checks, on the side of the car. Compare it to the STS spy photo's taken by Brenda Priddy. Priddy's STS has seven spoke wheels, while the checkered STS has nine. Also, the front facia is slightly different.

Just a thought for your enlightenment.

b4z

My feeling is that it is the V. The 9 spokes was a big tip off, as all the other Cadillacs have 7 spokes.
The "V" on the side of the car is a hoot.
There are some creative people at Cadillac.
It is too obvious not to have been done on purpose.

Even if warships from WWI thru to the thirties used similiar slashes and angles to camoflauge themselves on the high seas.

mbukukanyau

I am of the opinion that the STS based on the picture here is better than the Audi A6, because there are no joints across the board as in the Audi. The only thing I would change is the cup holders.
Otherwise, with some aluminum touch ups and an XLR quality interior, some technological wizardly and again the XLR type wood choice, the STS should be a killer

cornellpremed

All Cadillac test mules have wheels with spokes amounting to a number other than 7. Easy to change a wheel; doesn't affect the testing significantly... Dupes a surprising number of people.

I think pretty much all Cadillacs will have 7 spoke wheels.

eaton53

The zebrano wood that is in most Cadillacs. It's very rich looking.

Hard to tell from a picture, but the wood in the new STS still looks like zebrano.

arenn

I was just reading here

http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=6611&sid=17- 5&n=156

yet another mea culpa from GM on their low quality interiors, particular wrt Cadillac. We already got one sneak preview review that was down on the interior.

I hate to sound like a broken record, but to me the STS is the biggest launch of the Caddy turnaround. There is now some positive momentum, this will either launch them forward or set them back. In a CTS price range, you can make compromises and buyers might accept it and be willing to make tradeoffs. In an STS and up price range, people expect the goods all the way around. A substandard interior would be a killer in a 50K+ auto.

I hope someone at GM is reading these boards and is committed that this car won't be released until it is perfect.

GM has a huge opty here. With the E class and 5 series just getting redone, they've got a chance for Caddy to leapfrog the Germans and stay ahead for years to come. If they settle for good enough, and don't demand that they at least equal if not beat the 540i (or whatever it's called these days) and the E 500, they should be ashmed of themselves.

mbukukanyau

Writing an email to Bob Lutz, Just tell him, not to fail us here. the STS simply has to put Caddy on the Map, Better than all the rest
STS simply has to live by 'The Standard of the World' slogan

theo2709

This is probably in the wrong place, but here goes. The Cadillac concept car at NAIAS will essentially a convertible version of the Sixteen, probably called the Elderado. It will be a realistic look as to the future styling direction at Cadillac. It is still unknown if it will have a V-16, or a production-ready V-12. Here's the kicker though. It will have TAILFINS.

Eek.

corsicachevy

Tailfins should not be rejected out of hand just because past attempts have ventured into the ridiculous. Who knows, maybe the GM designers have found a way to integrate tasteful tailfins into the new Caddy's design.

tomcat630

Can't wait to see it!

The STS is going to be made at same plant as CTS, so it should have a good chance.

theo2709

All the Sigmas are made in the same factory. They are going to be mighty busy.

rctennis3811

i love that new, nicer, and sharper interior of the STS (the old STS looked too toyish and of cheaper quality). i also luv the mock CTS three-spoke steering wheel cuz it looks very sporty!!!

to whoever said that "LEXUS INTERIORS ARE BLAND" - yes they are bland, but Lexus is going to change that with the GS replacement (the concept comes out most likely this 2004 NAIAS)

a_l_hubcaps

I always liked the small tailfins on the 1977+ full-size Cadillacs, the ones that end in the large vertical taillights. It seems like Caddy could get away with integrating that into their current styling theme.

-Andrew L

jeffahart

Hey all, thought you might be interested in this information from the Nov. 24 issue of BusinessWeek. Hopefully Caddy won't disappoint us all with another crappy CTS style interior for the new STS. The whole article is interesting, called "The Second Coming of Cadillac". With regards to the STS interior, it says this:
"Even more crucial to luring a new generation of drivers will be the STS, which next year replaces the Seville--a classic Caddy land yacht. Delayed by six months so GM could make the car more competitive with BMW's brisk-selling 5 series, the STS will be larger than the CTS. Inside, the car will more closely resemble the XLR, swapping the plastic of the CTS interior for luxurious eucalyptus and aluminum appointments."
Hooray, maybe they will give us something to be proud of. Let's hope so.

Kirstie_H

Really? I've been waiting for the comeback of fins - the retro look has been implemented bit by bit, but fins would really be a daring look.

tomcat630

The Seville was never a 'classic land yacht', btw

msgreen

We've talked a little about the possibility of a 4.2L version of the Northstar as the V8 powerplant. Anyone hearing anything else on other mechanicals for this car? Lexus has a six speed auto in the 04 LS430 and Mercedes has a seven speed auto in the new E500. Would be nice to see Caddy offer up more than five speeds. Also, what about size? Any one hear anything yet on length, weight, etc?

mbukukanyau

If GM were to give the STS an Interior materials at par with XLR, a handling quality on the same level with CTS-V, a quite interior like a LS 430, seats like Volvos or Saab, a suspension to rival the S class, then, and only the would the crown go to them without question

sevenfeet0

GM has already announced the development of a 6 speed auto tramsmission. I think they said it would be ready by the 2005 model year, and if so, it's very likely it'll show up on the STS.

sevenfeet0

It's interesting that GM took the time to differentiate the execution of their interiors (how well they are screwed together, overall build quality) to quality of materials and design. GM does think they are executing the interiors they have correctly, but who cares if they stilll seem cheap for the class?

The current CTS interior was an interesting try, but I think they tried too hard to mimic the sharp lines of the exterior. The SRX was slated to get the same interior, probably for cost savings which was a mistake in my book. The SRX is an "S" class vehicle, not a "C" class vehicle and considering how much they are charging for it, this vehicle definitely needs a different interior than the modified CTS one it has now.

Cadillac probably realized this before the SRX was introduced, but it was too late in the product cycle to do anything about it without delaying the launch by up to 2 years. The STS was far out enough in the future from 2003 when the CTS was introduced and Bob Lutz came on board to do something about its interior before launch. A six month delay to replace a dying product wasn't going to make much difference in the short term. But getting the STS right in all aspects will make a BIG difference in the STS and Cadillac's prospects in the long term.

theo2709

Models- V6 RWD, V8 RWD, V8 AWD

Interior-
Aluminum Trim Package, premium aluminum trim, includes center stack and console

Cruise control, adaptive, sophisticated radar transceiver automatically adjusts speed to maintain preset following distance, includes telltale in head-up in reconfigurable head-up display

Head-Up Display, reconfigurable, includes digital readouts for vehicle speed, selected gear, adaptive cruise indicator, radio information, high-beam indicator, fuel level, six languages available (English, French, German, Italian, Japanese, Spanish)

Keyless Access, includes keyless ignition which is engaged with push button start, and 2 remote transmitters which enable passive entry on both front doors and trunk, and remote start capability

Steering wheel, mounted controls, includes controls for sound system, HVAC system, voice recognition and Adaptive Cruise Control (if equipped)

Wood Trim Package, includes real eucalyptus wood on steering wheel, shifter knob, center stack and console, IP spear molding and door pulls

Stereo-
ETR AM/FM Bose 4.0 with CD player, includes Radio Data System and 8 speakers

ETR AM/FM Bose 4.0 with in-dash 6 disc CD changer, includes Radio Data System and 8 speakers

ETR AM/FM Studio Surround Sound Bose 5.1 with in-dash 6 disc DVD changer, includes Radio Data System, seek-and-scan, digital clock, automatic volume compensation, TheftLock, weather band, digital signal processing and 15 speakers, rear passenger A/V jacks

ETR AM/FM Studio Surround Sound Bose 5.1 with in-dash 6 disc DVD changer, DVD-based Advanced Navigation, includes Radio Data System, seek-and-scan, digital clock, automatic volume compensation, TheftLock, weather band, digital signal processing and 15 speakers, rear passenger A/V jacks

Exterior-
Glass, laminated front side for quiet car characteristics

Exhaust outlets, dual chrome-plated tips

Headlamps, halogen, Tungsten, windshield wiper activated, includes Twilight Sentinel and flash-to-pass feature

Headlamps, Intellibeam, automatic low/high beam control

Headlamps, Xenon, high-intensity discharge, windshield wiper activated, includes flash-to-pass and headlamp washers

Spoiler, decklid

Rear Parking Assist, Ultrasonic, includes rearview LED display and audible warning

Tires, P235/50R17, Michelin, S-rated, all-season, blackwall

Tires, P235/50R17 front and P255/45R17 rear, Michelin, V-rated, all-season, blackwall

Tires, P235/50R18 front and P255/45R18 rear, Michelin, W-rated, all-season, blackwall

Wheels, 2 - 17" x 7.5" (43.2 cm x 19.1 cm) front, 2 - 17" x 8" (43.2 cm x 20.3 cm) rear, cast aluminum, painted, 7-spoke

Wheels, 2 - 17" x 7.5" (43.2 cm x 19.1 cm) front, 2 - 17" x 8" (43.2 cm x 20.3 cm) rear, cast aluminum, polished, 7-spoke

Wheels, 4 - 18" x 8" (45.6 cm x 20.3 cm) cast aluminum polished, 9-spoke faceted

Wheels, 4 17" x 7.5" (43.2 cm x 19.1 cm) cast aluminum painted, 7-spoke

Wheels, 4 - 17" x 7.5" (43.2 cm x 19.1 cm) aluminum polished

Wipers, Rainsense

Mechanical-
Brakes, Panic Assist, senses high impact braking and assists with braking maneuvers

Driver Shift Control

Engine, 3.6L V6 VVT (260 HP [193.9 kW] @ 6500 rpm, 252 lb.-ft. [340.2 N-m] @ 2800 rpm)

Engine, 4.6L Northstar V8 VVT, SFI variable valve timing, Northstar (320 HP [238.6 kW] @ 6400 rpm, 315 lb.-ft. [425.3 N-m] @ 4400 rpm)

Limited Slip Differential

Performance Cooling Package, includes P/S cooler, mechanical engine driven fan and 2-80 watt pusher electric fans

Premium Steering Gear, ZF

StabiliTrak

Seating-

Front, bucket Nuance Leather Seating Surfaces
Front, bucket Tuscany Leather Seats

Colours, Light Gray1, Ebony1, Light Cashmere2
1 - Light Gray or Ebony Interiors include dark eucalyptus wood trim
2 - Light Cashmere interior includes medium eucalyptus wood trim

Exterior Colours-

Blue Chip
Red Line
Black Raven
Silver Smoke
Sand Storm
Moonstone
Light Platinum
Silver Green Metallic
White Lightning

Dimensions-

Wheelbase 116.40 (2957)
Overall length 196.30 (4986)
Body width 72.60 (1844)
Overall height 57.60 (1463)
Front track width 61.80 (1570)
Rear track width 62.30 (1582)
Head room, front 38.70 (983)
Head room, rear 37.90 (963)
Shoulder room, front 58.60 (1488)
Shoulder room, rear 57.40 (1458)
Hip room, front 54.60 (1387)
Hip room, rear 55.60 (1412)
Leg room, front 42.60 (1082)
Leg room, rear 38.30 (973)

rctennis3811

where do u find all this stuff!?!

theo2709

I have my methods. ANT14 is more in-the-know than I am, though.

arenn

This information has already been posted on other web sites, so at this point it is easy to find.

b4z

Probably eogold.com

cornellpremed

GM Inside News has pictures of an uncloaked STS today.

mbukukanyau

http://gminsidenews.com/

You will find all that info, and Pictures of the final product.

Cant post the picture here due to Copyright law. Could get Edmunds into trouble.

erickpl

Not too bad of styling. A little softer than the CTS, but still edgy.

There is another link to the CTS doing nearly 200 MPH at Bonneville Salt Flats.

http://www.lklserver.com/cts/index.htm

-Paul