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This discussion is for members to exchange information about the STS, not to debate the merits of GM. If you're not interested in the STS or Cadillac in general, you're probably in the wrong discussion.
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Correction, I tried to sit in a SLS.
One of the few cars built in the World that I couldn't get comfortable in.
My legs were in the knee bolsters.
I have never sat in a full size car with so little room.
Hoping the new STS has at least as much front legroom as the CTS.
Because the G chassis has been a failure. The Bonneville, Aurora, Lesabre, Park Avenue all took a step backward when that new chassis came out 4-5 years ago.
The lack of interior room in those cars is appalling.
And their sales figures have been appalling too.
Nonsense??? How is saying that a car has torque steer obvious??? You just say things like "nonsense" to cover up the fact that you're wrong and can't admit that some cars in this world are not as good as you think they are.
It's also the Automobile All-Star in the Midsize SUV category. The STS is the sedan version of the SRX and ought to address the main complaint - the use of the CTS dashboard (although I'm not complaining). It should be a bit lighter than the SRX. Those 2 things will make it an even greater vehicle.
I expect the SRX to get the STS dash before too long.
1. Its Simple in Design
2. Developed - Designed and Built from the Ground up in 2001
3. Most efficiency engine in Bang for the Buck and Fuel economy
4. three-way catalyst air injection reaction
5. sequential fuel injection in LS6 Vs. Direct Injection in your BMW V12
6. hydraulic roller Valve lifters
7. All Aluminum Block Just like the Bemmier V12
8. The most sophisticated engine Control System in the industry designed to Reduce Vibration associated with Pushrod engines.
9. Thermoplastic intake manifold – Does the BMW V12 Have that?
10. drive-by-wire electronic throttle Just like The Bemier
11. BMW V12 HP- 438 LS6 HP-405 on the –BMW HP # Advantage for 4 Extra Cylinders (Read Toyota Corolla Engine as extra useless Weight) 33HP
12. EPA Mileage Estimates BMW V12- 15 mpg / 23 mpg Z06 19 mpg / 28 mpg
13. Torque: 400 ft-lbs BMW V12 444 ft-lbs Difference =44-For 4 Cylinders
My point Give GM engineers a V12 and they will squeeze 800 HP out of it.
Show me another engine with such #’s and I will show you a more advanced engine. Many moving parts and software algorithms are not a measure of advancement.
I tell you a BMW V12 engine is technologically inferior to an LS6. No matter what BMW Marketing and European car Magazines tell you.
You have 13 factual Items to refute that assertion.
I am confused about a few things, one being the fact that people keep bringing up all of GM's technological deficiencies when this topic is supposed to be about the new STS. Another thing I don't get is the bragging about the 6 speeds used in Audi, Jag and BMW products. It's nice to have a six speed but those manufacturers all bought their trannies from a supplier, namely ZF. Ford, BMW and VW do not design or manufacture their own 6 speed autos so they really haven't accomplished much of anything other than writing some big checks. GM could have purchased 6 speeds and maybe they should have, but when they debut their new trannies they will represent GM's own money and engineering. The whole argument over the number of cogs is silly because the real world benefits of 6 speed vs 4 speeds are minimal. GM's new 6 speed FWD tranny is only going to yield a 5% increase in fuel economy over their current 4 speeds. Not something the average driver is going to notice. The next argument will be that engines cannot be fully exploited with old 4 or 5 speeds. Wrong again, the Vette is a good example of this. The C5 was about .2-.3 secs slower than the 6 speed manual with an auto, again the difference is negligable. The same truth applies to the GTO. While a good 6 speed will cut down on gear hunting and help milk the best performance out of an engine when compared to an average 4/5 speed auto, it has minimal advantages over a well designed, smooth shifting 4 speed. GM needs more cogs to keep up in terms of advertising, but owners won't be able to feel the difference in terms of performance or fuel savings. I doubt MBs 7 speed will offer any real world advantages over a good 5 speed or 6 speed, but it will give them bragging rights and something to take our minds off their average quality. When your Benz is in the shop at least you will know you have more cogs in your auto than everyone else.
merc,
You can't even get the facts about your favorite German cars right and yet you want us to take your word about Caddys. You are way off on so many fronts that one doesn't really have time to reason with you. It amazes me that the same guy who has lambasted cadillac for producing low quality, soft riding, underpowered cars has no problem with MB and BMW producing overpriced, low quality, overly complex cars. In the past you ranted about cadillac resorting to electronic crutches and useless gizmos and now your beloved German brands are knee deep in malfunctioning electronic doodads and user interfaces that add no value to the driver. You used to say that cadillac should stop worrying about gimmicks and learn how to make a proper RWD car, now I think its safe to say you should give BMW and MB that same advice. It baffles me that people like you will waste so much time blasting GM for being behind the times when the cars you love dont offer the reliability of a Corolla. Do you really think that 6 speed autos, ABC, Sensotronic, iDrive, etc. is more important than reliability and solid ergonomics? What good is all that space age crap if the car is constantly at the dealer? Maybe, just maybe, GM is concentrating on producing high quality cars and components instead of trying to beat everyone to the punch with unwanted, unproven gadgets. I have read a number of posts here and I have yet to see what your issue with the STS really is, you have talked about everything but the topic at hand. Again, what do GM's four speed autos have to do with the '05 STS?
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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The STS will have the same tranny in a BMW.
mbukukanyau, I did respond to your post in a engine topic concerning BMW.
merc1 "Who makes better engines, BMW or Honda?" Feb 19, 2004 1:52am
M
The STS will have the same tranny in a BMW. It belongs there. Its a GM tranny.
I do not understand how people can question American technological superiority. GM has more money, and More research centers around the globe in places some Automakers like DC and MB have nothing.
That doesn't mean the STS has no prestige too. Cadillac is very prestigious, but not yet up to the likes of the Germans yet.
I can agree with most of what you say. Yes, Cadillac's quality slipped in the 70s and 80s, and they have been going in the right direction the past ten years. I would also argue that MB and BMW have gone the wrong way on the quality scale over the past decade. If MB and BMW don't get their act together with respect to quality, they'll end up right where Cadillac was ten years ago. It's not as if building a complex, but reliable car is impossible. Just look at Lexus and Infiniti. They're not perfect -- no car maker is -- but they manage to build complex cars that break down less than any other make.
As for prestige, well, I personally think it's overrated. These days, I'll take reliability over prestige any day of the week. But that's just me. If I were seriously concerned about what the people at the mall thought of me, I guess I'd skip the aforementioned makes altogether -- they're a dime a dozen in places like SoCal and the Big Apple. Bentley, Rolls or Aston Martin: Now THAT's prestige.
I think the STS will offer the right combination of size, performance, and style to satisfy it's target market. If sales are a measure of what separates the "good" cars from the "bad", then Lexus and Cadillac cannot be ignored. If I'm not mistaken, I believe I read that Cadillac's sales were up 28% last year. Not bad. CTS sales exceeded projections by a wide margin, so somebody must like Caddy's new edgy style. I know I do.
Granted, quality is improving almost across the board (there are exceptions). Regardless of what people think of Cadillac, I've enjoyed driving one. When I travel to see my son in school, we get the Seville STS (older generation) and it rides nice. We don't push it or try to do any slaloms, but for the driving we do, it is very comfortable.
When Cadillac adds the performance to the luxury that I've been feeling, they'll have a winner. I haven't looked at the CTS at all (I'm NOT a fan of the lines), I'm hoping that the STS will be a mix of the new CTS and old Seville lines. Crisper, but not too crisp. Know what I mean? The interior shots have been nice.
But having the perfectly styled, balanced, and performing car doesn't mean squat if reliability isn't there. If the reliability is close, the dealer/service experience needs to be a step above what others are doing.
My BMW 325xi has been excellent, except for a little computer hiccup 2 months after I got it. Once fixed, it has been flawless. Any minor nits I have had have been addressed by the dealer.
Now don't get me started on the 5 or 7 series though.
-Paul
"I have seen middle aged white guys driving SUVs sitting on large chrome rims. They didn't pick that up at the country club. Now the manufacturers are making extra large rims available from the factory. It's a trend that started in the hood and with import tuner types, but now it is mainstream."
Point?? What does that have to do with what I said??
Examples: XLR vs ???, CTS-V vs.???, SRX vs.??? (not the Aviator - I like it and have driven 'em both, they're not all that similar), '05 STS vs ???
Not that Lincoln has to - Ford has Jaguar to carry that banner.
Volvo and Acura aren't even close. Any of the four Cadillac models I just mentioned are far superior to anything those two make.
Exactly... Acura is not a player.
Sure, compared to Volvo. The MDX is so respected that it's not even included in comparos with the SRX, because the testers know it's not in the SRX league. And so it will be with Acuras vs. the STS.
When Acura builds a proper RWD sports sedan, then they're a player... something with a V8 would be nice, too.
Right now, that is Cadillac's major weakness. They got the chassis and drivetrains right...now they need to give those interiors a major makeover.
LS went up aganist Catera. After the Catera was dropped It was left alone looking for competation. Lincoln has always been unable to find a place btw Buick and Cadillac to fight its battles. Mercury has never been a contender. At least not in the 90's. They (mercuries) are just Ford XLE's (read Camry top of the range XLE with Leather)
By the way. It looks very much like the outgoing 7 Series BMW
7 Series
LS
Lincoln has no CTS equivalent. The LS is a good car but its in a class of its own.
That is beside the point. The LS does not measure up to the outgoing SLS, STS with Northstar. The LS is in my opinion a better car than the outgoing STS, SLS, (Deu to RWD) but that is still not the point. The point is that the LS is a 3 Series wanna be
eaton53: I wonder how the STS will stack up against the upcoming RL. Rumor has it the RL will have a 300HP V6, a hybrid V6, and maybe an optional V8. Whew, this segment is tough!!!
I expect that the new STS will be priced substantially higher than the LS.
Cheers,
- Ray
Viva la competition - improving the breed . . .
We can't be so sure about the RL.
-juice
An interesting point he made is that Cadillac Division informed dealers that they are re aligning the cars where CTS is entry level, STS is mid-level, and Deville the flagship, at least until an even more upscale line appears a few years down the road (Fleetwood?)
He points out that STS will be available with a V6, but not Deville. He also claims Mr. Lutz wants Cadillac to emulate Mercedes where their biggest car is always the flagship car, excluding specialty cars like the SL600 or XLR.
- Bret
You asked to receive information about the all-new 2005 Cadillac STS as it becomes available, and your Cadillac Concierge is pleased to provide it for you. You interest is welcome and not surprising. The 2005 STS is, after all, the much-anticipated flagship of the Cadillac line.
Naturally, in creating this new sedan from the ground up, quality and craftsmanship were paramount. To that end, the craftsman who were carefully selected to create the 2005 STS are leaders in their field, recognized for their knowledge, experience, and passion.
Why the best and the brightest? Simply because the 2005 Cadillac STS was designed with the most demanding specifications of any sedan in Cadillac's history. The STS sets a new Cadillac standard with its level of fit and finish, fine-crafted appearance, and overall quality.
No detail was too small for the scrutiny of the Cadillac craftsman. From the appropriateness of the rich wood grains to the softness of the Milan carpets. From lighting performance to gloss levels to the aroma of the available Tuscany leather. From the quality of the available Bose® audio acoustics to the character of the exhaust note.
The overall result, as you'll see at the official unveiling at the New York Auto Show in April, is nothing short of spectacular.
The world awaits the most finely crafted Cadillac sedan we've ever built. And when you see it, touch it, and drive it when it becomes available this fall, we suspect you'll want us to build one for you.
I also believe that the Deville will soldier on relatively unchanged until something like 2009, to appeal to the current Cadillac crowd. I think that is smart, build cars to compete with the best and keep one around for traditional sales.