Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan

a_l_hubcaps

Here's the problem with the new Malibu: If some GM execs would take a walk around town and do some Camry spotting, they would notice that about 50% of the Camrys on the road are 4-cylinder LEs. Then why on earth are they trying to make the volume-leader Malibu a V6 with a $21K+ sticker? I understand the rebates will knock the price down, but still. Clearly what the mainstream market wants is a 4-cylinder engine with decent performance and decent economy, neither of which is offered in the base Malibu's 2.2 Cavalier engine. If Ford takes the 4-cylinder market seriously, they might have something with their new midsize.

-Andrew L

alpha01

I stand corrected, as the WSJ figures showed the Malibu, and made no mention of the "Classic". I guess my impression influenced my judgement, as I feel Im seeing lots of Malibus. Where did you get the 20% figure? Id agree that thats a high percentage of fleet sales for a model that was alleged to avoid such fate.

"And GM is now offering loyalty rebates of $3-4,000 on the NEW Malibu." The way Im reading the rebates, the basic rebate+loyal will bring you to 3 or 4 thousand dollars. I dont think the loyalty rebate alone is that high.

Ford should not only be paying attention to the Malibu, but to basically every market factor possible. The company has MANY cars to introduce over the next year, and most, if not all, of the introductions need to be executed well for Billy's "less market share but higher profits" mentality to work.

~alpha

Kirstie_H

We've got tons of GM-related discussions, so let's stick to the Futura (whatever little is known) in this topic. Thanks!

ANT14

Wait wait, I think I can save this and make it look like it goes with the flow....

Ahem...

Someone previously mentioned the 4 cylinder offerings, which is mainly what was missing from the Taurus line. Granted, you had bragging rights over offering standard V6 engines specially in the late 80's, early 90's whereas the imports such as Camry Accord were late to offer V6's.

And even so, you still have consumer's who would rather have the fuel efficiency of an I4, over a V6. Granted, the Vulcan 3.0L V6 in the Taurus isn't a model of efficieny in any manner, and it's more powerful Duratec 3.0L does same fuel estimates.

This time around, (sedan formally known as Futura till we publically get a name announced) will be fitted with a standard 2.3L I-4 and address the consumer's who are looking for a bigger car than the Focus, but with decent better fuel efficiency. Approx. 82-85% of Camry's/Accord's are sold in 4 cylinder versions.

And unlike the Vulcan, the Duratec23 I-4 is quite sophisticated and very advanced compared to other I-4's in it's class, and will sound much better during accelerations.

johnclineii

Uh-huh.

Will it be as reliable as those other 4's? That matters more than most anything else in this class of car...

ANT14

It's been out a few years already, and no issues with them so far.

f111d

Is he still on-board for the small car division, if not whose the person now? I remembered him as the car-buff VP. Why those cars were drivers cars? Something with Jones in it and from Netherlands area???
TNX
Paul

ANT14

VP for Small cars of Europe ?

f111d

Yes and who is VP responsible for Futura/whatever & Milan? C/D size?
TNX
Paul

Something Parry Jones every now and then my hippocampus sparks!!!

ANT14

The vehicle itself, or it's design, manufacturer, styling or engineering...etc. ? One vehicle can have numerous heads overseeing it.

f111d

Group VP, Global Product Dev. & Chief Technical
Officer.

Is he still around and hopefully part of the Futura?
Paul

ANT14

Yes, and Yes. His influence is evident in Focus, Mondeo, S-type, X-type Fiesta, LS' driving dynamics.

f111d

Definitely be an enjoyable ride! My best decription is what I call a point & shoot chassis/handling! Hope makes it off the assembly line as such?
Paul

ANT14

The Mazda6 I personally find (without bias) the best FWD driving car, handling wise. Point, shoot... and without the typical nose-drive front end plowing found on FWD vehicles.

Since this "yet un-named vehicle" rides upon that platform, it'll have the DNA to have it as such. BUT (big but here), while Mazda6 can tailor a car to be a bit more specific (niche like), they can maximize and offend some customer's. This "Yet un-named sedan" needs to reach please a wider base of buyer's, so you will find variations depending upon trim levels.

Example: The 4 Cylinder will definately ride a bit softer. The V6 will be tuned appropiately, and the ST270 version will be tuned "european like".

And it's that formula that will be very important to get JUST right. But if the platform is good, then your 70% there into achieving great handling characteristics.

Platforms play a major part in the formula to a good driving/handling vehicle. Second aspect is the suspension tuning. Case in Point... We are well aware of how well the Lincoln LS drives..even better in V8 trim. Uses same platform as the Tbird, YET, the Tbird was fitted with softer shocks. Read reviews on the Tbird, and you will find how much softer it handles...how it's a "Boulevard cruiser". And not a vehicle you want to toss into curves, like the LS.

f111d

Richard Parry-Jones
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3012/is_7_181/ai_76855- - 621/pg_2

The ST 270 tuning will that be similiar to the former SVT Contour?
Paul

will1831

I would like to see the actual vehicle, I'm hoping that it will differ from the drawing... in the fact that the drawing is none other that the Cadillac STS with a different grille...

mrmoose000

Yeah they do look similar....

But a lot of cars through the generations mirror certain aspects of eachother...its what consumers want...look back at each decade and notice how similar cars were...cars of the 80's...camrys...toyotas...volkswagons...etc...same small boxy cars...

i think that there is nothing wrong with having similar styling...i believe it was Bill Gates who said...

"Do it second, do it better."

I'll take the Futura over the Caddy :-)

ANT14

It's now publically official, Fusion.

http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosinsider/0407/19/a01-216055.htm

Moderator's can now change the forum's title to Fusion.

dave2222

Ford Fusion is such a better name. I cant wait to get a 35 Duratec Ford Fusion. Ill be able to beat any maxima or altima.

mrmoose000

Now we have nothing to talk about...

nvbanker

we could talk about the car, instead of the name of the car?

alpha01

"Ill be able to beat any maxima or altima."

And Toyota's prepping its 3.5L 270+ hp V6 for the Avalon, with expectation that it will show up in the Camry eventually...

~alpha

ANT14

Fusion ST270 will also have 270HP, but your not suppose to know that...

samnoe

Toyota Avalon is not the same class as futura/Fusion. The Avalon is larger, and the 500/Montego is the car in this class.

Compare Futura/Fusion with the Camry. The Camry will not likely get the 270 hp engine. Toyota never aimed at high powered vehicles, but rather fuel-efficient vehicles.

dave2222

I love the sound of the Ford Fusion. Such as "Yeah thats my Ford Fusion goes 0-60 in 7seconds and has a 270HP engine"

alpha01

"The Camry will not likely get the 270 hp engine"

I suppose that remains to be seen too. I would agree that I dont think the Camry in this generation will get that engine. But going forward, for the next generation (which debuts for the 2007 Model Year, only what? one year after the Fusion..), it seems to make little sense that Toyota would produce 3 or 4 engines in the same plant for the same vehicles, when it would probably fairly easily produce only 2. (TMMK, the 2.4L, the 3.0L, the 3.3L, and the 3.5L. The 3.0L is already on its way out, used only in the Camry now, and the 3.3L is allegedly an interim engine, from what I've read....)

The Fusion name is FAR better than any others I've read here, and I am personally excited about Ford's resurgance, though I think the Five Hundred/Montego have a tough battle ahead. Im looking forward to driving the Fusion and Freestyle though.

ANT- when is the co. going to axe the uncompetitive, unsuccessful, Freestar/Monterrey? $5000 is a lot of incentive to be putting in the cargo bay.

~alpha

ANT14

Till the next generation debuts in 2 years....

alpha01

I think I've asked you before, but if you could shoot me a quick email, I'd really enjoy/appreciate asking you a few questions regarding the industry in general- I'm very interested in joining the dynamic automotive marketplace in the fairly near future. If not, no worries. jmc415@hotmail.com

~alpha

nvbanker

"when is the co. going to axe the uncompetitive, unsuccessful, Freestar/Monterrey? $5000 is a lot of incentive to be putting in the cargo bay."

FWIW, I use an 04 Monterey in my business, and now have 8,000 trouble free and defect free miles on it. My runner loves it. The ONLY issue we have had is a blown tire - not the car's fault (and no, it didn't roll over, thank you very much!). So, although the van is not class leading in most areas, it's built really well, and would be quite the value for one to buy. Highly underrated vehicle, IMO. We're very pleased with it.

alpha01

"So, although the van is not class leading in most areas, it's built really well, and would be quite the value for one to buy. Highly underrated vehicle, IMO. We're very pleased with it."

I think its excellent that you've had a good experience, but according to the press (I admit I dont drive minivans), the vehicle does not seem underrated, and nor does it really have that great a value equation where resale is factored in. On the corporate level, I wonder if Ford is making any money. Id bet yes, simply because they set the MSRP in the stratosphere, in my estimation, precisely because they knew theyd need HUGE incentives to get the beast out the door. Ford, under Billy's control, strikes me as finance and marketing/marketplace savvy, if nothing else.

~alpha

f111d

I have no idea what the terminology is, but at what point will this race peak?
I don't understand this up-scale up-scale of every car out there? Is it the only method manufacturers can make money or is it the American consumers vanity?
Personally I've gotten to the point Phooey on what a vehicle symbolizes, it has to have driving dynamics and fit my tightening budget. I guess practicality is not part of automotive marketing strategy? I'd love to have and could appreciate screaming acceleration, but it's just not being a good steward of the earth.
Maybe I'm experiencing some sort of culture shock, since a very large percentage of us WW II baby-boomer earnings potential has been cut short by early retirements, we don't count anymore? Just exactly what segment is controlling the the market?
Thanks
Paul

ehaase

Probably 80 percent of the Fusions sold will have a 150 hp 2.3L 4 cylinder, and most of the rest will have a 200 hp 3.0L V6. I doubt that the Fusion will have a 3.5L V6, except for possibly a few thousand performance versions. Ford has always been conservative with horsepower, so I doubt that the 3.5 will have more than 230 or 240 hp.

ANT14

The Fusion ST270, will make 270HP. Interesting how Ford is Europe's nomeclatures like Mondeo ST220 and such...

buckwheat

The Fusion is one of three all-new, cars Ford Lincoln Mercury will unveil beginning 2005 at the North Anerican Intl. Auto Show in Detroit in January.
Larger than a Ford Focus sedan and smaller than the Five Hundred, the new Fusion will be aimed squarely at the heart of the mid-size car market. Ford fusion will be joined by an all-new, upscale, mid size car from Mercury and the all-new, all wheel-drive Lincoln Zephyr.

Source: PR Newswire

Kirstie_H

Done!

nextmoon

Is there a chance that the Fusion will come in the sport wagon configuration? Perhaps if Mazda's 6 sport wagon takes off in sales, Ford my be enticed to follow with their own wagon? I think the demand for wagons may be on the rise.

ANT14

Nextmoon, in this time there's such a loose-line between wagons, sports wagons, and cross-overs, that you might have some sort of version of it.

Interesting tidbit: FordMoCo sells the most wagons of any other manufacturer... Certainly not something they will leave behind....

exalteddragon1

The Fusion will have a 270 hp option? and its only ST??? How and when is ford planning on this? is this a blown duritech, or d35? also, if 270 hp is just ST then i could only imagine what SVT would be like, over 300 hp???

The real question is... japanese competitors already have 240/250 hp engines (accord/altima) but they also have xenon headlamps and DVD navigation with voice recognition.

Will the fusion have any of these features? BTW the 2005 Pontiac GP will have a navigation system.

ANT14

Most of those questions are still under consideration. Yes the ST will be the only version to have the 270HP engine.... ST stands for Street Tuned, and it'll be available on mostly each vehicle... SO far we see it on Focus ST as an example.

SVT is moving into a bit more hardcore territory...

nvbanker

And for as long as I can remember , which is about to 1957, they always have been the "wagonmaster". First with the 3 way tailgate, the retracting back window, the step in the back to help you in, the 3rd rear seat, and on and on.....

dave2222

HOST could you please remove posts 546 and 547. Itd be greatly appreciated. Thank you

Kirstie_H

Done! (Thanks for the heads-up, JC)

dave2222

ANT do you work for Ford? You seem to know a lot about whats going on right now at the Dearborn Engineering Center I'm curious if youre working on the calibration at all?

f111d

Every other person has asked this at one time or another. He's doing undercover work, but it's a secret!
Paul

dave2222

If what some of my associates say is true arent they still working on the 35 Duratec? I asked some people on the Fusion team but they dont seem to know. ANT id love to talk one of these days, Im sure wed have a lot to discuss.

ANT14

They don't seem to know, OR don't wish to speak... 2 totally different things. AT this point, they should know quite a bit for a car that will be launching next year.

f111d

Is Ford still leaning towards ABS optional? I Hope??? I'm so glad I don't have that nightmare on my Mystique.
Is the new "CAN" protocol going into all Fords. Got to get ready for troubleshooting.

A friend related a recent article in Wall Street that the Government has been pushing automakers to release maintenance/troubleshooting info such as DTC codes (when your CEL light lights) and hopefully not be so secretive about troubleshooting. For those of us with the passion to do it ourselves and the ability. Besides there are too many out there causing more pollution and safety issues because of this NSA like secrecy. Then these young folk developed an attitude and come up with own methods to get around what the engineers thought was fool proof. Sure it's going to happen no matter what, but look how bad some of these disgruntle guru's computer viruses have become. can. I'm not sure the reason for the release of info we didn't get to finish the conversation.
It sure would make it a whole lot easier for those of us car buffs who do care and understand how much more affordable vehicle ownership is when maintained properly in the first place.
   One big simple glaring issue 100,000 mile spark-plugs Ha Ha Ha. The OBD II points that out even if the vehicle seems to be running fine. Had 18,000 on factory single platinum's, info from the web site and an old laptop with OBD II software installed. I and others tried ever spark-plug out there and wouldn't you know it the ignition system should have had double-platinum's. I gain 3 mpg around town driving know!! No more hint of rotten egg from the cats that the dealer was told by Ford the PCM needed re-calibrated?
This particular car buff web site I participate has helped Ford & Visteon engineers get the real story. We've been told at certain dealerships the mechanics have made very good use are heads-up's thus saving the consumer wasted hours while the service department calls up Detroit.
All part of the high-tech world and the bottom line engineering brings to the market. Same designing that went into the Contour/Mystique. It amazes how good they turned out. Good that is, if your in the know what's really wrong or a certain strange maintenance schedule to keep the tranny happy.
Paul
It's amazing what you can do just so you can afford to things besides throwing money at a vehicle! I was trained well by a WW II/depression survior!!!

f111d

I see the news today, Jag X type introducing wagon in November stateside. Fusion close enough to take advantage? Or is the Freestyle enough for Ford management to swallow for now?
Tnx
Paul

ANT14

Freestyle is enough for now.

f111d

If I had of read this Bloomberg report I just ran across, I would even considered asking my last question! http://www.bloomberg.com/media/markets/ford.pdf
I still say it's a miracle vehicles perform as well as they do. If if wasn't for individuals busting their tails, management wouldn't be able to pull half the miracles they thought they have!!!!
Paul