Does anyone know if the Ford Fusion / Mercury Montclair will be built on the same platform as the 2006 Lincoln Zephyr? Cause if they resemble anything of the Zephyr then they should be good looking cars.
yes, they will...but exteriors (and interiors) can look VERY different these days. Platforms are not badge engineering, like back in the bad old Eighties...
At the being of the forum Anthony said the 2.3l was being offered. However I see the Focus for 2005 is offering a 2.0 again and not the 2.3???? What is this Duratec 20? Also rumors an diesel for Focus in 2006? Good news! So which 4 will be available? I thought the 2.3 had high output and better torque? Any good links to get caught back up? My son looking for a Focus and I told him better get a 2004 it still has the 2.3. Did I steer him wrong? Tnx Paul
The Fusion will debut with a 2.3L I4 as it's standard offering.
As for the Focus, the Duatec20 is the base engine (2.0L), while the Duatec 23 (2.3L) is the optional offering for the top trim level. Mazda3 also has a similar engine lineup if you wish to cross-shop between them.
This is the current 3.0L Duratec ULEV 6-speed Fusion. Its currently undergoing calibration to meet ULEV standards in the Arizona proving grounds. This picture is not more than 4 days old. This is one of the fusions currently floating around at the Dearborn engineering facility.
The Fusion is looking really good, the interior is awesome. I really hope the chrome bits in the interior are standard on the 4-cyl version, gives it an upscale look. I'm not picky about how fast a car goes but the 4-cyl automatic Mazda6 I test drove seemed pretty slow. People say it lacks low-end torque and this is something that is important to me since I do mostly city driving. Also test drove an automatic 2.0 Mazda3i and it was plenty fast for me, of course the weight is lower than the Mazda6.
Which brings me to a few questions I have about this car for anyone who knows.
1) What kind of automatic transmission will it use?
2) Any idea what the taillights will look like?
3) Any chance for standard ABS and/or side curtains? It's very hard to get these things on the Mazda6 without having to take a bunch of other options with it. Since it will probably be sold to rental fleets fairly heavily I have a bad feeling they'll be optional and might be bundled with sunroofs and other useless stuff.
This is why I like the Hyundai Sonata. 4-wheel discs and side curtains standard along with a very long warranty at a good price. The Fusion looks like it will be really nice though so may consider it.
4) The turning circle on the Mazda6 is too big for my taste and noticed it compared to the Protege and Mazda3. Will the Fusion have a similar turning circle?
5) Is the Fusion bigger than the Mazda6? If so this means probably more weight, and might be slower than the Mazda6 unless the transmission is different.
1. Aisin (toyotas former supplier before being spun off) 6 speed auto trans.
2. Refer to the Fusion sketch
3. Itll proably be standard for the SEL, LTD, ST, and Hybrid models.
4. Although i'm not tottally postive on this Im assuming yes.
5. the fusion is only slightly larger. With a slightly larger new Refined 3.0L duratec the engine mounts and engine bay have been slightly expanded as well as the platform to fit the 3.5L Duratec thatll be launched in September of 2005.
1. Is the Aisin a temporary move? I know that there's a Ford/GM 6 speed transaxle in the works. I also thought that being using the CVT once they've ramped up capacity in Batavia, a CVT would be nice with the 2.3 l i4.
3. Typically, Ford makes any safety related options available as stand alone option or in safety/security packaged, and makes sunroofs optional. The problem is that dealers won't order cars for their lots with just safety options and no sunroofs, upgraded stereos etc. so you have to order them, and get to miss out on the rebates, etc. I really wish they'd make the side/curtain airbags ABS and traction control standard on EVERY car they make. I don't know why any new cars are sold without ABS. I would never buy a new car without it.
4. It won't likely be any shorter than the Mazda 6's
5. It'll be a bit bigger than the 6, and probably heavier. Bigger engine compartment that will accomodate a V6 with an AWD system, the Mazda 6 AWD only fits with the i4 engine. It should also sit a bit taller with a higher h-point. There is supposed to be an ST 270 version in the works with a 270 hp 3.5 l V6, but that probably won't be available in the first year.
I hope the 6-speed automatic vs. the 4-speed on the Mazda6 makes a difference. Sounds like it may very well be a bit heavier as well. Unless the 6-cyl version isn't much more money I can't really justify stepping up to it. And a 38.7 turning circle is pretty bad for a car of this size. Of course cars like the TSX have a 40 foot turning circle so it could be worse, but it's disappointing.
nedc2,
You hit the nail about the ABS and side curtains. They need to be standard or it's going to be difficult to find one with it but without stuff like a sunroof. That's the way most dealerships work from what I've seen. Once they bother to have a car with ABS and side curtains they toss in the sunroof. And of course it's pretty much crazy to order a Ford and forfeit the rebates because you'll lose a lot of money that way up front as well as in resale value.
I rather have ABS optional from a maintenace point. I do my own brake work and the added pain to troubleshoot, repair/cost or just flush the fluid at least every other year. I learned to drive on gravel roads and didn't realize it but threshold braking is the norm for me. Sunroofs well that's a option that's always as been useless as you know what on a boor hog. If it's not functional to get you safetly down the road get rid of it. Cars are getting so expensive glitz and glitter, well that was for the 50's. Paul
After years of making ABS standard on GM, they have now made it an option. An issue we might see arising is companies getting sued because you will surely have one customer who will just be idiotic enough to sue over an issue pertaining to ABS.
Observe how many warning stickers have been added in vehicles in the past 10 years... Common sense stickers as in, "You are in an SUV you idiot, drive it like a bus, NOT a sports car so it won't flip"..."Don't put a babysit in the passenger seat, child might die from an airbag because your an idiot"....Just paraphrasing here heh...
Sidepoint:... About 2 years ago, this lady sued Ford (didn't win)... She stated that Ford should have integrated those power pedals SOONER. Because they weren't implemented before she bought her vehicle, she suffered some injury because she was kissing the steering wheel because of her small stature. Rediculous huh ?
I wonder if GM made ABS optional on many of their lower priced cars because their own ABS system that they were using was a lower cost but also significantly less effective system than those used by most other manufacturers. I also note that ABS is standard on almost all Ford models in Canada and Europe.
If you live anywhere you're likely to get any wet, freezing weather not getting ABS is a false economy. I don't think I could point to any incident where having ABS saved my life or limb, but I could easily name half a dozen times I've avoided fender benders, and the expense of deductibles and increased insurance rates, because I had been diving an ABS equipped car in the last ten years. However, I still have to worry about getting ploughed into by the other people out there who don't have it.
GM publically stated that it was making ABS standard to be more competitive in the marketplace, as in, being able to lower it's prices.
The decision of making ABS standard on vehicles are dependant upon the market. Ford of Australia, Ford of Europe, etc. will have independant thoughts on that.
I'm all for making it standard overall, and luckily Ford makes it standard on trucks/SUV's. I appreciate that when it's wet and I slam my brakes, that the Expedition behind me can also brake confidently. But I can also deal with threshold braking if need be, just a different adventure. But in these times of lack of common sense most people inhibit, I'm all for standard ABS, side Airbags/Canopies, etc.
That's a really old study, it doesn't sem to have controls for driver age, health, etc. Auto safety stats can be extremely hard to interpret because of the large number of variables involved and the often poor quallity of undeerlying data from accident reports etc. That said, today's antilock system are more sophisticated, producing less of the pulsing sensation through rhe pedal than some earlier systems did, and more people are educated in how to use them.
I do wan't a cheap car, but I'd rather do without some amenities and have more spartan and utilitarian interior. Heck I wouldn't want the leather seats and sunroof and twelve speaker stereo and big engine with sub 7 second 0-60 acceleration even if I could afford it. I would never even consider a new car without ABS and side airbags though.
I'm so glad to see the brakes on the Ford Five Hundred/Freestyle are up to the task. I hope this is a new trend with Ford. The fact there are still drums on the Focus and the Escape both redone for 05 makes me wonder though.
Its just amazing to me to see the HUDGE brakes that Ford uses on its trucks and SUVs and then see the crap that are on some of Fords cars...I wonder can these vehicles be from the same company?
Then i remmber, the bean counters are in charge and they don't always appreciate safety if it means $1.00 more per unit.
Yeah, I can't figure out whay they would put rear drums on the FWD Escapes, the Focus I can forgive, the brake on the Foci I've driven worked well enough and it's a light car being sold for well under $20K in most cases. The Escape's quite a bit heavier though, at least 400 lbs. and several thousand costlier, not to mention having a higher centre of mass which makes balanced braking even more important. I really don't see why the Escpae wouldn't come with discs all around. It just seems cheap.
I think the Escape XLS 4cyl is the only trim that comes with drums in the rear. But I agree that they should upgrade all trims. Why use two different parts on the same vehicle?
FWIW, we owned an '02XLT with drums on the rear and it stopped better than most, if not all, competitors some of which had 4 discs. Our '05 Limited has the 4 wheel discs and the difference is not even noticeable.
Now brake dust is another story. The '02 produced heavy amounts of dark dust on the front wheels and the pads as well as the rotors needed replaced at 18,500 miles for us. Our '05 produces very little dust leading me to believe that they will last much longer. My fingers are crossed.
It's also worth mentioning that the '05 also adds EBD with the standard ABS. My Mazda6 still stops better though.
how well will the Fusion sell? Do you think it will be a homerun like the original Taurus? Or will buyers be turned off because of the size compared to the car it's some-what replacing? Is the Five Hundred and Freestyle going to take some sells away? In the end, do you think the Fusion going to be able to get decent sales? And with the Five Hundred and Freestyle, will this move made by Ford to replace the Taurus with 3 vehicles really help make it a real player in the midsize sedan market?
It's not expected to sell in Taurus like volumes, the segment is too fragmented overall. Throw in Mercury's and Lincolns version, THEN you'll get Taurus like figures. It's not so much about "WE NEED to make these many vehicles because we have factory over-capacity" it's more about "This is the amount we can build, and there's not enough, too bad".
They auto market place is very very different than it was 20 years ago. When Taurus first came out customers were use to not having may different types of family vehicles to choose from, the Mini-Van was only 4 years old and the only 4 door sport utilities where the Jeeps and The Suburban. People either got a sedan or a wagon.
Today, people want something different than what their neighbor drives.
As far as size goes, the Fusion will be bigger (stretched wheelbase) inside than the Mazda6 on par with Camary and Accord.
Also there will be a cross-over wagon to follow so really Ford is using 4 vehicles to replace Taurus.
Ford is really going to try to be competitive in Each Segment with cars that people WANT not just settle for because they couldn't afford brand X.
Focus is a much better car than people in the general population think, mostly because of its bad introduction. I just hope that the perfect launch of the 2004 F-150 is the indicator of things to come. The 2004 F-150 is the highest quality full size truck built right now. Better than Toyota according to the last JD Powers study.
I know that this is very early, but what is the pricing looking like for the Fusion/Milan? I, so far, like what I have seen on these cars and I can't wait for some more information to surface finally.
It's a LONG while before pricing is released, but your looking at $17K for the 4 cylinder model, $20K for V6's, to around $28K for the ST high performance version.
Thanks, I know it's WAY early to know pricing, I was just looking for a ballpark number so you gave me just what I was looking for. I love the Mazda 6 and I have great hopes for this car as well, I may even be able to afford one some day. I like that the size will be a little bit bigger cause I'm big and I would like that little bit more room. Now if Ford would give me the 5-door version I'd even be happier. Thanks ANT for getting all this info out, I hate waiting! ( like everyone else on here )
Here in Ohio winter salt and from maintenance stand I opt for drum rears everytime. The "kiss" scenario has allot to do with whole system. Beside the majority of vehicles the front brakes do 80-95% of the work and if you ever look at ones with rear discs they are tiny. Emergency brake issue with rear discs and the winter salt YUH!. I think its good economics using rear drums for the owner.
And a hint about brake dust, we Contour/Mystique folks have found for all around good front pads Bendix Titanium's. No dust, assume pedal feel(consistency) and self bedding for us do it yourselfers. Now if your into week-end racing or autocrossing that's a whole other ball game. Oh yes I just had a flashback driving around Chicago on I-80 is the only time I've pushed the rear drums to their limits. What's the word for that phenomenon you get into that heavy traffic and everyone slowly gets faster and faster? 75-85 in an 55mph zone? Paul
Seems to me the Ford beancounters have the idea in their mind that X car will be sold in significant numbers to rental fleets, thus they might be likely to cut corners in certain aspects of the car, such as ABS and side curtains being standard. It also makes me worry that they cut costs in areas that could affect long-term durability/reliability like using cheaper quality parts that could help them save a buck here and there.
The Focus may be fixed but look at the '05 Focus pricing. Compare it with similar equipment to a Mazda3 and you have VERY similar pricing, almost identical. They have this kind of high pricing yet continue to put drum brakes on the car, black mirrors even on the $17,000 version, side airbags aren't curtains, having to step up to the $17,000 version just to get away from the black molding on the side, etc. It's these little things that bother me. The Mazda3 addresses all of these, even the Kia Spectra addresses all of these. I don't know if I could even consider the $2,000 rebate enough yet just to get it to a decent level. If they want this kind of pricing on it at least make it seem upscale by using discs on more versions, getting rid of the black molding on all except the cheapo trim, and put some body-colored mirrors at least on the $17k version.
If the Fusion doesn't put side curtains and ABS standard on the V6 version then I doubt I'll consider it. The Mazda6 is a nightmare to get these things but to avoid a sunroof and other things. There is hope in getting a Fusion V6 with side curtains and no sunroof as long as the side curtains are standard. You can occasionally find one on the lot where a dealer orders a stripped down V6 version, but make the side curtains optional then it starts getting bundled with everything else. Dealers will place higher priority on a sunroof.
By the way I'm complaining in hopes someone from Ford will actually surf these boards and read consumer's comments.
I agree. I think some areas though you can negotiate better. I've seen plenty of people claiming to get invoice, and even some slightly less. I think once new competitors come out (new Civic, Sentra, Elantra, etc.) that we might see some rebates on the Mazda3.
Something I don't understand though is the SES trim for example seems to be more upscale than your normal Focus, since it has standard 16" alloys, a spoiler, leather-wrapped steering wheel, fog lamps, 6-disc CD changer, audio controls on the steering wheel, etc. yet it still has black mirrors and drum brakes. I just wish they would take care of basic stuff first instead of throwing in 6-disc CD changers and spoilers. Is this what they have planned for the Fusion? 6-disc CD changers and spoilers getting priority over ABS and/or side curtains? To an extent this is what the Mazda6 does, the sport package/spoilers, etc. getting priority over safety items.
Also knowing how high the MSRP pricing is and how long Ford will stick with the current Focus, seems to me they are giving themselves breathing room for possible Cavalier-type rebates, which is why mentally I can't see $2,000 rebates being good enough. If they do go beyond this though the Focus becomes a pretty good value.
"yet it still has black mirrors and drum brakes. I just wish they would take care of basic stuff first "
After consumer market research is done, they have concluded that typical Focus customer's would rather have the toys, than subtle details such as blacked out mirrors, etc.
Again, it's all in the demographics that buys the vehicles. I see it this way, your going to have a majority of people who abuse their vehicles. And blacked out mirrors benefit is you can hit side posts (at your local drive thru's) and scratch them, yet still look good.
Whereas a typical Jaguar buyer for example, would be a bit more cautious over their vehicle, which is why colored mirrors might work better on some models, over other's.
The same situation with the black rubber side moldings.
As I told a recent Volvo S60 buyer friend of mine (although this year they color coded the side rubber molding strips) if you dislike the black moldings pose a buying issue, get exterior color black then it doesn't stick out as much, which is what he did.
As for how the Fusion will group their packages and options, is still quite a time off. As evidenced in current Ford vehicles, take a look at the 500 and it'll give you an idea of how things will be grouped. And since the Fusion will be a higher selling vehicle than the 500, you might see more option groups, or single options.
If you notice Mazda, many of their vehicles have certain safety/security items bundled in some other package, and that's rare to see on most Ford's. Then again, typical Mazda buyer will spend a bit more, than a Ford buyer, etc.etc.
One of the things I used to like about Volvo, and BMW, and to a lesser extent Mercedes styling in the 70s an 80s was the ample use of plain black rubber on the cars exteriors, I really prefer it body colour painted bumpers, rub strips, etc.. It was more functional, and provided a nice contrast in colour and texture. It looked utilitarian, not cheap.
I myself liked that as well. My first car was a 325i Waaayyyyy long ago that had those rubber strips, and that helped quite a bit when people would hit or scratch me.... I never had that damage.
Which is why now I always get black exteriors...IN case there's a scratch on the painted bumpers, the color underneath is black, therefore not easily seen.
Don't care much for all black cars myself, I tend to like light colours. Your AC must get a workout in Florida. One of the concepts at the auto show in Detroit this past year was a Subaru roadster that had this two tone paint job the "deck" was painted in some chroma shifting blue green paint and the lower parts were done in wht looked like an industrial grade epoxy powder coat material. I saw lots of engineerning and design types checking it out, I hope that shows up on some future cars. I love low maintenance finishes:)
Heh, ok... those are studies conducted by specific research groups over the shopping habits of consumer's. HOW they are done, how the survey's are done, and such, all depends upon the reporting agency.
Before a vehicle is introduced, the manufacturer were hire an outside company, or possibly in house, to conduct a research and figure out what the consumer's want. This information is compiled, and the manufacturer's product analysts will put a game plan together.
This happens numerous times, beginning when concepts are first released at auto shows. They gauge consumer's interest on it. If it seems to have caught people's attention, then they start with numerous research groups to come up with a viable game plan for a vehicle.
This will occur many times over, till before the product is launched. One of the final one's being option groups and pricing... Then months later, everything is cooked together.
Then after a vehicle is introduced, the research continues on who is buying it, who trading in what, for it, what they like most about it, what complaints on it might be, etc. It's a non-stop situation to explain it best.
Way back in the late 70s-early 80s I participated in a couple of GM sponsored consumer research studies. It was quite a big event as they came in to my city, rented out part of the convention center, then paid participants about $50 or so to spend a couple hours rating features, styling, interiors, etc. At that time in my life, my wife and I owned a couple of GM vehicles. The third time, they sent me a card a few months before their next study. That card had a few preliminary survey questions, one of them asking what vehicles we owned. At that point we no longer owned GM's, having switched to a Dodge minivan and a Taurus (GM products sucked in the 80's!) I never heard back from them after that. I guess they only wanted their participants to preach to the choir instead of giving them more statistically significant feedback.
We haven't been back to GM since for a vehicle, since our Fords and Dodges have performed well.
I would love to take any kind of survey or market research questionaire, about any vehicles. I have no ill will towards any make or model, and tons of suggestions, none unreasonable. But who am I to offer my opinions to the experts. Anyways.
I think that GM sends a survey card to every new owner, everyone who buys a new GM. I've seen one of them already. They want to know what people like and dislike about the specific vehicle he/she bought, and suggestions for next release.
Since people have different desires from each other, everybody (who answers the survey, which is highly recommended) have different opinions, what one likes the other one hates, and usually the car companies have to count the votes and follow what the bigger part of consumer likes. Examples include putting the wiper switch on the right side of the steering wheel (import cars like) or leave it on the left side (as all American brands used to make). Seems that most people like'm on the right side as the imports, Since many redesigned American cars are starting to switch them to the right.
Anyway, Ford does not have such a follow-up survey, which could help them a lot (besides saving for more expensive research groups).
By the way, Ford is the only automaker who doesn't give you an option to ask them specific questions or give suggestions on their web site. Going to GM, Chrysler or Toyota sites will invite you to voice your opinion, and they will answer your concerns within 2-3 business days. Ford should better start offering the same.
I read articles about LED front lights becoming available, any such technology available for the Fusion? Or planned down the road. I find it amazing that the LED lights having even whiter light than HID and much less current draw , that I can believe. Unfortunately the specs used were CRI color rendering index and not Kevin. 80 for LED and 65 for HID. This would definitely eliminate the huge current draw @ 12vdc, LED probability lasting the life of the car and then some and lumen output with little reduction for it's life. Glare reduction got to be a big improvement for us aging folks. Paul
I doubt such a product would be available on a Fusion. If Ford decides to use it, it would be on their higher end brands like Jaguar, Lincoln, etc. before it trickles down to Ford models as has been typically the case.
"Ford is the only automaker who doesn't give you an option to ask them specific questions or give suggestions on their web site. Going to GM, Chrysler or Toyota sites will invite you to voice your opinion, and they will answer your concerns within 2-3 business days. Ford should better start offering the same."
AGREED!!!!! Hello, Bill??? You there??? Cheap research, if you don't mind filtering through the cranks.....
Not sure about head lights, but my dealership is putting LED gumball machines on Crown Vics headed to NJSP...
These lights are so much brighter it makes the old style seem like something out of 1970s tv show. Also the altinaters on cop cars are pretty maxxed out these days with radios and computers etc....so the less draw from the lights the better.
Also there are lights on the front and the back of these cars, not just the top...less current per light means more lights.
Since most cars today are maxing out the 12volt system, LEDs are proably going to become the norm in the near future.
An LED bulb should probably last the life of the car.
Comments
Any good links to get caught back up? My son looking for a Focus and I told him better get a 2004 it still has the 2.3. Did I steer him wrong?
Tnx
Paul
As for the Focus, the Duatec20 is the base engine (2.0L), while the Duatec 23 (2.3L) is the optional offering for the top trim level. Mazda3 also has a similar engine lineup if you wish to cross-shop between them.
http://www.gminsidenews.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=7237
This is the current 3.0L Duratec ULEV 6-speed Fusion. Its currently undergoing calibration to meet ULEV standards in the Arizona proving grounds. This picture is not more than 4 days old. This is one of the fusions currently floating around at the Dearborn engineering facility.
Hi Hi
Paul
http://www.mustangmods.com/data/533/mercury_milan_800.jpg
http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=18995&ma- ke_id=trust
Which brings me to a few questions I have about this car for anyone who knows.
1) What kind of automatic transmission will it use?
2) Any idea what the taillights will look like?
3) Any chance for standard ABS and/or side curtains? It's very hard to get these things on the Mazda6 without having to take a bunch of other options with it. Since it will probably be sold to rental fleets fairly heavily I have a bad feeling they'll be optional and might be bundled with sunroofs and other useless stuff.
This is why I like the Hyundai Sonata. 4-wheel discs and side curtains standard along with a very long warranty at a good price. The Fusion looks like it will be really nice though so may consider it.
4) The turning circle on the Mazda6 is too big for my taste and noticed it compared to the Protege and Mazda3. Will the Fusion have a similar turning circle?
5) Is the Fusion bigger than the Mazda6? If so this means probably more weight, and might be slower than the Mazda6 unless the transmission is different.
Thanks for any replies.
2. Refer to the Fusion sketch
3. Itll proably be standard for the SEL, LTD, ST, and Hybrid models.
4. Although i'm not tottally postive on this Im assuming yes.
5. the fusion is only slightly larger. With a slightly larger new Refined 3.0L duratec the engine mounts and engine bay have been slightly expanded as well as the platform to fit the 3.5L Duratec thatll be launched in September of 2005.
6.
3. Typically, Ford makes any safety related options available as stand alone option or in safety/security packaged, and makes sunroofs optional. The problem is that dealers won't order cars for their lots with just safety options and no sunroofs, upgraded stereos etc. so you have to order them, and get to miss out on the rebates, etc. I really wish they'd make the side/curtain airbags ABS and traction control standard on EVERY car they make. I don't know why any new cars are sold without ABS. I would never buy a new car without it.
4. It won't likely be any shorter than the Mazda 6's
5. It'll be a bit bigger than the 6, and probably heavier. Bigger engine compartment that will accomodate a V6 with an AWD system, the Mazda 6 AWD only fits with the i4 engine. It should also sit a bit taller with a higher h-point. There is supposed to be an ST 270 version in the works with a 270 hp 3.5 l V6, but that probably won't be available in the first year.
nedc2,
You hit the nail about the ABS and side curtains. They need to be standard or it's going to be difficult to find one with it but without stuff like a sunroof. That's the way most dealerships work from what I've seen. Once they bother to have a car with ABS and side curtains they toss in the sunroof. And of course it's pretty much crazy to order a Ford and forfeit the rebates because you'll lose a lot of money that way up front as well as in resale value.
Sunroofs well that's a option that's always as been useless as you know what on a boor hog.
If it's not functional to get you safetly down the road get rid of it. Cars are getting so expensive glitz and glitter, well that was for the 50's.
Paul
Observe how many warning stickers have been added in vehicles in the past 10 years... Common sense stickers as in, "You are in an SUV you idiot, drive it like a bus, NOT a sports car so it won't flip"..."Don't put a babysit in the passenger seat, child might die from an airbag because your an idiot"....Just paraphrasing here heh...
Sidepoint:... About 2 years ago, this lady sued Ford (didn't win)... She stated that Ford should have integrated those power pedals SOONER. Because they weren't implemented before she bought her vehicle, she suffered some injury because she was kissing the steering wheel because of her small stature. Rediculous huh ?
If you live anywhere you're likely to get any wet, freezing weather not getting ABS is a false economy. I don't think I could point to any incident where having ABS saved my life or limb, but I could easily name half a dozen times I've avoided fender benders, and the expense of deductibles and increased insurance rates, because I had been diving an ABS equipped car in the last ten years. However, I still have to worry about getting ploughed into by the other people out there who don't have it.
The decision of making ABS standard on vehicles are dependant upon the market. Ford of Australia, Ford of Europe, etc. will have independant thoughts on that.
I'm all for making it standard overall, and luckily Ford makes it standard on trucks/SUV's. I appreciate that when it's wet and I slam my brakes, that the Expedition behind me can also brake confidently. But I can also deal with threshold braking if need be, just a different adventure. But in these times of lack of common sense most people inhibit, I'm all for standard ABS, side Airbags/Canopies, etc.
Also ABS hasn't proven to be all its cracked up to be...(stupid american drivers don't know how to work them)
Check out this news release from IIHS.
http://www.hwysafety.org/news%5Freleases/1996/pr121096.htm
I do wan't a cheap car, but I'd rather do without some amenities and have more spartan and utilitarian interior. Heck I wouldn't want the leather seats and sunroof and twelve speaker stereo and big engine with sub 7 second 0-60 acceleration even if I could afford it. I would never even consider a new car without ABS and side airbags though.
I'm so glad to see the brakes on the Ford Five Hundred/Freestyle are up to the task. I hope this is a new trend with Ford. The fact there are still drums on the Focus and the Escape both redone for 05 makes me wonder though.
Its just amazing to me to see the HUDGE brakes that Ford uses on its trucks and SUVs and then see the crap that are on some of Fords cars...I wonder can these vehicles be from the same company?
Then i remmber, the bean counters are in charge and they don't always appreciate safety if it means $1.00 more per unit.
Mark
FWIW, we owned an '02XLT with drums on the rear and it stopped better than most, if not all, competitors some of which had 4 discs. Our '05 Limited has the 4 wheel discs and the difference is not even noticeable.
Now brake dust is another story. The '02 produced heavy amounts of dark dust on the front wheels and the pads as well as the rotors needed replaced at 18,500 miles for us. Our '05 produces very little dust leading me to believe that they will last much longer. My fingers are crossed.
It's also worth mentioning that the '05 also adds EBD with the standard ABS. My Mazda6 still stops better though.
Today, people want something different than what their neighbor drives.
As far as size goes, the Fusion will be bigger (stretched wheelbase) inside than the Mazda6 on par with Camary and Accord.
Also there will be a cross-over wagon to follow so really Ford is using 4 vehicles to replace Taurus.
Ford is really going to try to be competitive in Each Segment with cars that people WANT not just settle for because they couldn't afford brand X.
Focus is a much better car than people in the general population think, mostly because of its bad introduction. I just hope that the perfect launch of the 2004 F-150 is the indicator of things to come. The 2004 F-150 is the highest quality full size truck built right now. Better than Toyota according to the last JD Powers study.
Mark
http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=18995&ma- ke_id=94
Could the moderator's change the title to Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan since they are eventually the same vehicle.
Thanks
Thanks
And a hint about brake dust, we Contour/Mystique folks have found for all around good front pads Bendix Titanium's. No dust, assume pedal feel(consistency) and self bedding for us do it yourselfers. Now if your into week-end racing or autocrossing that's a whole other ball game. Oh yes I just had a flashback driving around Chicago on I-80 is the only time I've pushed the rear drums to their limits. What's the word for that phenomenon you get into that heavy traffic and everyone slowly gets faster and faster? 75-85 in an 55mph zone?
Paul
The Focus may be fixed but look at the '05 Focus pricing. Compare it with similar equipment to a Mazda3 and you have VERY similar pricing, almost identical. They have this kind of high pricing yet continue to put drum brakes on the car, black mirrors even on the $17,000 version, side airbags aren't curtains, having to step up to the $17,000 version just to get away from the black molding on the side, etc. It's these little things that bother me. The Mazda3 addresses all of these, even the Kia Spectra addresses all of these. I don't know if I could even consider the $2,000 rebate enough yet just to get it to a decent level. If they want this kind of pricing on it at least make it seem upscale by using discs on more versions, getting rid of the black molding on all except the cheapo trim, and put some body-colored mirrors at least on the $17k version.
If the Fusion doesn't put side curtains and ABS standard on the V6 version then I doubt I'll consider it. The Mazda6 is a nightmare to get these things but to avoid a sunroof and other things. There is hope in getting a Fusion V6 with side curtains and no sunroof as long as the side curtains are standard. You can occasionally find one on the lot where a dealer orders a stripped down V6 version, but make the side curtains optional then it starts getting bundled with everything else. Dealers will place higher priority on a sunroof.
By the way I'm complaining in hopes someone from Ford will actually surf these boards and read consumer's comments.
Currently there is a $2000 rebate on Focus.
Dealers are also discounting Focus to at least invoice in my neck of the woods.
Mazda dealers in my area are selling Mazda3s for OVER STICKER!!!! with no rebate.
Mark
Something I don't understand though is the SES trim for example seems to be more upscale than your normal Focus, since it has standard 16" alloys, a spoiler, leather-wrapped steering wheel, fog lamps, 6-disc CD changer, audio controls on the steering wheel, etc. yet it still has black mirrors and drum brakes. I just wish they would take care of basic stuff first instead of throwing in 6-disc CD changers and spoilers. Is this what they have planned for the Fusion? 6-disc CD changers and spoilers getting priority over ABS and/or side curtains? To an extent this is what the Mazda6 does, the sport package/spoilers, etc. getting priority over safety items.
Also knowing how high the MSRP pricing is and how long Ford will stick with the current Focus, seems to me they are giving themselves breathing room for possible Cavalier-type rebates, which is why mentally I can't see $2,000 rebates being good enough. If they do go beyond this though the Focus becomes a pretty good value.
After consumer market research is done, they have concluded that typical Focus customer's would rather have the toys, than subtle details such as blacked out mirrors, etc.
Again, it's all in the demographics that buys the vehicles. I see it this way, your going to have a majority of people who abuse their vehicles. And blacked out mirrors benefit is you can hit side posts (at your local drive thru's) and scratch them, yet still look good.
Whereas a typical Jaguar buyer for example, would be a bit more cautious over their vehicle, which is why colored mirrors might work better on some models, over other's.
The same situation with the black rubber side moldings.
As I told a recent Volvo S60 buyer friend of mine (although this year they color coded the side rubber molding strips) if you dislike the black moldings pose a buying issue, get exterior color black then it doesn't stick out as much, which is what he did.
As for how the Fusion will group their packages and options, is still quite a time off. As evidenced in current Ford vehicles, take a look at the 500 and it'll give you an idea of how things will be grouped. And since the Fusion will be a higher selling vehicle than the 500, you might see more option groups, or single options.
If you notice Mazda, many of their vehicles have certain safety/security items bundled in some other package, and that's rare to see on most Ford's. Then again, typical Mazda buyer will spend a bit more, than a Ford buyer, etc.etc.
Which is why now I always get black exteriors...IN case there's a scratch on the painted bumpers, the color underneath is black, therefore not easily seen.
Can you please, once for all, explain me what is "consumer market research"?
Who is researching whom?
Nobody never asked me questions, after driving Ford vehicles for almost 5 years! Am I not considered as a consumer?
Before a vehicle is introduced, the manufacturer were hire an outside company, or possibly in house, to conduct a research and figure out what the consumer's want. This information is compiled, and the manufacturer's product analysts will put a game plan together.
This happens numerous times, beginning when concepts are first released at auto shows. They gauge consumer's interest on it. If it seems to have caught people's attention, then they start with numerous research groups to come up with a viable game plan for a vehicle.
This will occur many times over, till before the product is launched. One of the final one's being option groups and pricing... Then months later, everything is cooked together.
Then after a vehicle is introduced, the research continues on who is buying it, who trading in what, for it, what they like most about it, what complaints on it might be, etc. It's a non-stop situation to explain it best.
http://www.edmunds.com/news/regularnews/articles/102969/article.h- tml?tid=edmunds.h..wkedmunds.headlines.1.*
We haven't been back to GM since for a vehicle, since our Fords and Dodges have performed well.
Since people have different desires from each other, everybody (who answers the survey, which is highly recommended) have different opinions, what one likes the other one hates, and usually the car companies have to count the votes and follow what the bigger part of consumer likes. Examples include putting the wiper switch on the right side of the steering wheel (import cars like) or leave it on the left side (as all American brands used to make). Seems that most people like'm on the right side as the imports, Since many redesigned American cars are starting to switch them to the right.
Anyway, Ford does not have such a follow-up survey, which could help them a lot (besides saving for more expensive research groups).
By the way, Ford is the only automaker who doesn't give you an option to ask them specific questions or give suggestions on their web site. Going to GM, Chrysler or Toyota sites will invite you to voice your opinion, and they will answer your concerns within 2-3 business days. Ford should better start offering the same.
I find it amazing that the LED lights having even whiter light than HID and much less current draw , that I can believe. Unfortunately the specs used were CRI color rendering index and not Kevin. 80 for LED and 65 for HID.
This would definitely eliminate the huge current draw @ 12vdc, LED probability lasting the life of the car and then some and lumen output with little reduction for it's life.
Glare reduction got to be a big improvement for us aging folks.
Paul
AGREED!!!!! Hello, Bill??? You there??? Cheap research, if you don't mind filtering through the cranks.....
These lights are so much brighter it makes the old style seem like something out of 1970s tv show. Also the altinaters on cop cars are pretty maxxed out these days with radios and computers etc....so the less draw from the lights the better.
Also there are lights on the front and the back of these cars, not just the top...less current per light means more lights.
Since most cars today are maxing out the 12volt system, LEDs are proably going to become the norm in the near future.
An LED bulb should probably last the life of the car.
Mark