Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan

samnoe

Ford please get rid of that audio and climate system, they are very bad designed. Tiny buttons for AM/FM/CD, dated LCD with small old type fonts, no light for the power/volume button ++ - and the climate controls are very difficult to operate. Make it more simple and stylish.

giz180

Fusion looks like a great car. I can't wait until it comes out to get a better look. To me, it looked like a Jag. I'm just glad that the back isn't hideous like that of the Zephyr. Did anyone else not like that back? It looks like it's too long or something.

savetheland

I also hate that microwave style radio display. It is time for Ford to move on to something more stylish and modern. In my Focus I have nice radio with a big LCD screen and MP3 player and seems that it is not offered anymore in new Focus.

xmf314

I saw the Fusion at the L.A. auto show today. I think it is an attractive car. If it drives as good as it looks, Ford may have a winner.

skibry1

I would be interested in a view of the manual shifter.

ANT14

Alpha,

 

I agree, great time to buy any vehicle, soooooo many choices overall. I've seen the Sonata already, it's an improvement in everyway, personally it looks like an Accord copy. If I were Honda, I would sue.

 

How people will accept it? All depends on their needs, budgets, likes/dislikes, etc. The few folks I've spoken to over the Sonata, kept stating, "Ewwww, but it's still a Hyundai"... So it's a perception that will follow them (and Kia) for awhile.

ANT14

I forgot, other pics can possibly be seen in other websites. Maybe a search for it on the web. Can't mention names since Edmunds doesn't allow linking to competitive sites, but it's out there. (None of the lighter interior have been shown yet).

Kirstie_H

Hey ANT14, you can link to other automotive sites - you just can't link directly to other automotive forums.

jtrik

Hi everyone, i'm new here. I've been researching and looking and i wanted to wait till the end of the year for a purchase. But this car is making me wait again. It looks really nice in pictures, and if Ford can supply a high performance version then i might be sold. I was getting bored with the same ole same ole offered these past few years and now BANG! What a selection...making things tough, i love it!

 

Ford's done a great job, i even like the 500...decisions decisions.

theman123

I agree, great time to buy any vehicle, soooooo many choices overall. I've seen the Sonata already, it's an improvement in every way, personally it looks like an Accord copy. If I were Honda, I would sue.

 

Well If you think that's bad, how do you think Bentley feels about the Chrysler 300. I'm surprised they haven't been sued. that's one of the most direct copying jobs I've ever seen. It's like Chrysler took some tracing paper over the Bentley and said OK, here's your new car. The scary part is that people know it and they still like it.

alpha01

The Accord critcism is warranted, however, the "ew Hyundai" comment, in my opinion, is not, and nobody I know has made that comment to me in a good long while. Hyundai reliability and satisfaction scores are continually improving, the warranty has effectively quelled the fears so so many, and sales are consistently posting strong gains in the US. The new engines in this Hyundai look to be very competitve, and more powerful than the Fusion's, for example, and the STANDARD safety features are far and away the best in class. Add to that a classy interior (it looks nicer to me than the Fusion's which is attractive itself), and I think you have a very strong contender.

 

~alpha

savetheland

I am not sure that Hyundai engines are so great, rather opposite. I would prefer GMs OHV engines instead.

 

Then again Fusion will handle and drive much better that any Hyundai in near future. I guarantee you that.

 

Regarding Hyundai interior – I don’t know, but at least it better not smell as it used to.

robr2

Actually I think many people may be suprised with the upcoming Sonata. It is being built in the US and I'm sure many components will be sourced from US plants - just like Honda and Toyota. The base 4 cylinder is a new engine. It's supposed to be out in March - we'll see.

andyman73

Just had to say, Alpha, one of our long time friends married a guy that drives an 03 Kia Sorento. She's like eeeewwwww all the time. Even tho' it's awd, and her Jetta isn't. And Jetta is a 00 bought in fall off 99. She doesn't want to drive it or anything. He bought it before marriage, cuz baby was coming. They haven't had a single issue with the Kia, and more than a few with the Jetta. She keeps on saying that she will never drive or own a Kia or Hyundia, if she can help it. My wife and I just look at each other and laugh. We've known the girl a long time, some people are just so funny.

theman123

I'd hate to be rude, but the Title of this forum is the Ford Fusion. Nobody wants to hear about no Kia and Hyundai. It's really sad, because Hyundai unveiled A new car at the Detroit Auto-show. On another web site, they had a poll for this years production cars that you'd want to drive. Surprise the Fusion is in first place, and is ahead by like %13 over the second place car. and the Hyundai has like 0% votes. With like 2000 votes in so far.

andyman73

If you read it, plainly, the point is to make that some people can't recognize a decent vehicle. Even when they ride in it on a weekly basis. That was all.

 

Will be interesting to see how the Fusion stacks up against the new S.... from that H....company that noone wants to hear about.

ANT14

Speaking of polls, there's one competitive site that had "Which vehicle would you likely take out for a test spin?" Poll. Selection was, Avalon, Fusion, Zephyr, M45, Charger.

 

In a 3 minute span, the Avalon figure went up over 2000 votes, next day when every other selection was catching up. Suddenly the Avalon had a few thousand more numbers added to the poll. Turns out someone was hacking the poll with a java-script application to make it "count" over and over.... I guess some fan had a Toyota obsession he needed to share

 

The reaction towards the Fusion has been extremely positive and better than expected (styling wise). Fun part comes, in the driving test....

theman123

OK, it's not that nobody wants to hear about H....... company. it's just that I've noticed there are mass of haters out there. I misunderstood what you wrote.

theman123

Man that's crazy. it's not that serious. It's just a poll, I just hope no did that during the last presidential election LOL. But your right ANT14, the media's response to the Fusion from the inside-out has been wonderful. The only thing that seems to be bothering people, is the 2 base engines. the 2.3 4 cylinder at 160HP and the 3.0 V6 at 210HP. Are they going to truly deliver exciting performance from such limited horsepower?? If not Ford just made a smaller 500 which people don't like it because it's underpowered. Let's just hope for the best and Ford get's it right.

andyman73

I'm a lover of all makes, but not all of their models. I currently own my 4th and 5th FoMoCo products. Have also owned Honda(3) and BMW(1). Personally I am excited about the upcoming offspring from Mother Ford. I am a Z planner thanks to Father in Law. But I am not a Ford zealot.

 

I enjoy the competitions offerings, as far as what they have. Because with out them, there would be little to push Mother Ford to keep on challenging herself. And little incentive to keep us happy. And besides, some of the competitions offerings are worthy of a cursory glance.

 

Love the new Mustang and F150. Waiting to see the Fusion and it's cousins. Hoping and praying for the Bronco. Hey ANT, any idea or clue you can give on the Bronco, is it coming, and when? Thanks for sharing your vast insider knowledge with us plebes.

johnclineii

Reading this thread, I find it ironic. Some people say others don't want to hear about Kia and Hyundai, indeed. (Not necessarily those who post here)

 

Those are generally the same people who do not want to hear that a domestic car company can do ANYTHING right. The truth is somewhere in the middle...

 

And. although this IS a Ford Fusion thread, the Fusion will be drastically affected by the Hyundais and the Kias (and even more so by the Hondas and Toyotas) of the world. Ford's competition is no longer just, or even primarily, GM and to a wee bit, Chrysler.

 

But...it probably won't help any domestic chest beater's case that the Fusion is to be assembled in.....MEXICO. Meanwhile, Hyundais and BMWs and Hondas assembled in the USA are seen as foreign, while cars assembled darn near anywhere by a certain large German company are somehow viewed as domestic, so long as they wear a five pointed star.

 

I am reminded of the days I used to see Chevy LUV pickups trucks at my local dealer, who had happily plastered BUY AMERICAN..SAVE JOBS bumperstickers on the back of them!

 

Some people are funny, indeed.

ANT14

The Bronco concept, as well as the Synus concept "hint" at the B-class vehicle Ford is wanting to produce. Just different ways it was introduced....Stay tuned....

andyman73

John: Hello! That's exactly what I'm saying. Those kind of people are also the ones that think that the companies should continue producing the old guard. No matter the consequences. And that kind of thinking will run you right out of business.

 

 A business is in business to make money, and to provide the customers with a viable product or service. Healthy competition will keep a good company on its toes, and help to keep the products fresh. Sorry for the economics lesson.

 

A female coworker had to get rid of her Neon, because her dad wouldn't work on non American built autos. And he did all of her maintenance for free. She bought a Hyundai, and that really fired up old dad, until she showed him the build sheet, with the made in U.S.A. label on it.

 

Like you said, some people are just funny.

 

ANT: Thanks for the crumbs...waiting for a whole piece of Bronco cake. Will bide my time patiently.

grbeck

I really like what I've seen of the Fusion so far. The front, in particular, is sharp and distinctive.

 

Are we looking at a normal fall introduction for this model?

baggs32

The only thing that seems to be bothering people, is the 2 base engines. the 2.3 4 cylinder at 160HP and the 3.0 V6 at 210HP.

 

According to Ford's site the Fusion's V6 puts out 210 HP and 200 ft-lbs of torque. That's only 10 fewer HP and nearly 10 ft-lbs more than what the Duratec V6, with VVT, in my Mazda6 puts out. They also claim a 0-60 time of less than 8.5 seconds with the 6-speed ATX which is less than 1.6 seconds slower than my MTX equipped 6. In case you're wondering, the 6 weighs 3311 lbs while the Fusion is 31 lbs lighter at 3280 lbs. Doesn't sound too bad to me.

 

All that aside, the Duratec 35 is going to solve a lot of people's problems with the so called lack of power in the new Ford sedans. ANT can probably provide a more accurate number but I believe the basic version of that motor produces somewhere around 230 HP off the shelf.

 

The thing that will keep me from buying a Fusion (other than my dream to own a Mustang) is the lack of an MTX for the V6. I realize the market is small for cars like that but it does project a more sporting image for the cars that offer it.

 

SVT needs to get their hands on this one fast!

6yearoldpassat

Hi Ant,

  How much torque does/will the hybrid 2.3L make down low, perhaps at 3000 RPM? If/as they introduce the 2.7L diesel from Europe (when clean fuel is available here in 2006?)what would the hp/lb and torque/lb would be at some suitably low/quiet RPM? My VW is no race car, but at ~17 PoundFeet/pound at 2000 RPM it drives nicely...

   If there are curves published any where accessible to the masses a URL would be very cool.

  The Fusion looks great and once the right engine comes out will be the likely replacement for my beloved VW. I keep cars for a while and figure gas will be well over $3/gallon in the next 4-6 years as India and China compete for the worlds supply while the Islamists simulataneously work to reduce it... What a bummer. But it drives efficiency up my list.

ANT14

Baggs,

 

You are correct, the literature stated a 0-60mph of less than 8.5 seconds. And they were correct about stating that, as for me to say "I'll die one day" or "Kia Spectra will hit it in under 15 seconds". The numbers will be much better than that, but hasn't been fine tuned just yet. Emmissions is the next wave that will take place, before it's fine tuned.

 

6yearoldpassat,

 

It's hard to interpret it since the use of the electric propulsion is factored in the equation. Also take into account how the CVT is tailored to keep the engine at the heart of the torque ban, therefore at 3000RPM, I'll guestimate at 133-140tq, because of some other factors associated with the system.

 

Now how the hybrid system is integrated into that 2.7LD V-6, (if I believe it is your asking) will post quite some high torque at low RPMs. I see little need for it to rev actually. Keep it around 1500RPM and it should be more than enough. My concern at that time would be over which transmission could handle all that torque, yet be compact enough to be placed in a FWD structure.

exalteddragon1

This is an interresting question, would people see the Fusion as foreign or domestic?

 

Well, first lets start with Honda and Toyota and now some other makes that build cars in the USA... They are seen as foreign, and IMO its a good thing, because they should suffer since they dont play by the same rules as domestics.

 

FORD and GM are hostiges of the UAW, or United Auto Workers. They do what any union does, raise the pay for the workers, then force the company to move and fire them all since its cost structure is not competetive anymore. This is the reason the Fusion is in Mexico.

 

1.) They pay the workers less, even if they are union,

2.) NAFTA means easier trade, so the UAW has compeition, and it has to lower wages which are they way they attract workers,

3.) Japanese, Korean, and Some European makes build cars in the US with almost no Union interference...

 

This means that Nissan can tell its workers to take off there wedding rings at the plant and Honda can give bad medical insurace, compared to GM and FORD plans which i'm sure are amoung the best in the industry.

 

This is why Ford moved this model. You guys remember what happenned to the 500? The Union would not let ford change the factory for flexible manufacturing, and a dispute started that could have delayed the important cars introduction, or worse...

 

Some would rather buy an American car made in Mexico than a Foreign car made here. That way, they could see it as buying American while not supporting Union treachery.

 

I would love to buy an American car made in the USA, but these people are one of the principle reasons FORD and GM would rather build elseware...

 

Im not saying Wipe out the Union or anything, b/c then workers would be treated like trash, but the Union needs to realise for its own survival and that of its 600,000 jobs that they need to lead a wage consious approach to new contracts or else they will see more Fusion type Fords than 500...

 

Its all about cost in the end.

Kirstie_H

This particular line of conversation can be found in many, many archived topics in News & Views. If you'd like to roll the dice with a new discussion there, feel free - but this one is just about the Fusion.

 

Please return to conversation about the new Ford!

robr2

She bought a Hyundai, and that really fired up old dad, until she showed him the build sheet, with the made in U.S.A. label on it.

 

What American made Hyundai did she buy? All current models are imported from Korea. The new Sonata and Santa Fe (not yet for sale) are the 2 vehicles being built in the new Mississippi plant that just started up.

theman123

Thank you !!! kirstie__Host

To answer exalteddrjon1's question. I don't think people in America are really going to care. We've been buying Japanese cars made in Japan for years why not Mexico. I think in the end after all the discussion, it's going to boil down to is the Fusion a great car ? is it's performance on par if not better than the Honda Accord and the Toyota Camry ? It certainly has the making's of being a great car. It should easily bet the Camry because everybody know the camry is the ultimate snooze feast. People only buy that car because of the perception that it's going to just run for ever. Ford might have a little harder time outdoing the Accord because Honda really has tried hard to make it an enthusiast/everyday car. Of course that's all up to Ford and how Ford tunes the suspension and steering and all that. I certainly hope so because I'm really tired of hearing that line of America can't compete nonsense. To me the Fusion is perfect for me, I'm a first time buyer and I need something that I can afford but at the same time keep for 5 years plus. A midsize sedan is perfect.

TO ANT14

Hey do you know if there's going to be a 2 door coupe version ? If not please make a suggestion to somebody please. That would be hot. I don't really see the need for a station wagon version of the Fusion or Mazda 6, that's what Sub-compact SUV's are for.

mschmal

If every car drove and felt the way it looks on paper, we'd all be driveing GM products.

 

The sophistication that goes into a Toyota/Honda/Mazda and I hope Fords represents a level of expertise not availabe to Hyundai.

 

Where this is evident is in the ride quality, the suspension setup, NVH control, tactile feel. etc. Some people might consider this to be only a subjective superiority but still it counts.

 

For example. The if you sit in a Hyundai/Kia, you will not experience the familiar "new car" smell of a Honda or a Ford. In fact all new Korean cars smell to me like they were upholstered in soggy cat fur, especially on hot days.

 

This smell comes from the plastics that Hyundai and Kia use.

 

If you want to see the different that engineering sophistication makes on a vehicle, check out www.thetruthabouttrucks.com.

 

The truth is really in the details.

 

MARK

andyman73

oops, meant Honda! :O D'OH!!!

6yearoldpassat

Thank you Ant.

 

I wasn't so much after a diesel/electric question ("Look! There goes a locomotive down I35!!"), just some notion of how the 2.7L diesel would perform. Could you compare it in Fusion package to the VW 2.8L gas engine in the Passat in terms of pull and NVH? Same for the TDI? Gas mileage?

 

If it's like I hope, I may even move back over to the FiveHundred forum ;-)

ANT14

Theman,

 

I've always been a proponent of a 2 door coupe, based on a Ford midsize sedan. Mainly because I believe some buyer's may want something a bit toned down, than the Mustang offering. BUT, the V6 Mustang is what keeps the vehicle alive, therefore you might see it cut quite a bit into it's sales.

 

Converting a 4 door vehicle into a 2 door, doesn't just involve moving the B-pillar back a few inches. Takes a bit more engineering than just that, and sometimes the numbers aren't feasable for it to be profittable.

 

In some cases such as the CamrySolara, and Accord, it works for them since they really don't have a coupe offering such as the Mustang. And they do not offer a wagon version of their sedans, therefore this allows their game plan to work.

 

Mazda6 has chosen to do hatchback/wagon versions of the Mazda6 since they themselves have a Miata and Rx8 customer's can choose over as well.

 

But as I mentioned, I've always been a proponent of a 2dr Fusion.

 

6yearoldpassat,

 

Currently I'm on vacation for the next 2 weeks, and limited to dial-up, urrrrr Remind me in 2 weeks and I'll be able to share more info, and be able to link you to information of bookmarks that might answer your question.

theman123

Thank you for answering the Question ANT14.

  

But you have to remember. Every car company in America has been trying to kill the Mustang for the Past 40 years and it's still there and doing quite well from what I understand. I'll be Honest I want A Mustang. But, by it being a RWD car and that 4.0 V6 it's not exactly a model of Fuel efficiency and not the easiest thing to drive. That 4.0 V6 MPG would put a hurting on a Brotha. A FWD 2 door Fusion with a much more fuel efficient V6 or 4 cylinder would be perfect.

 

That's why I don't think A FWD 4 cylinder or V6 Fusion is not going to hurt the sales of the V6 Mustang, it's a completely different car. Just because they have about the same HP, the driving dynamics is always going to be different between a FWD car and a RWD car.

 

I doubt very seriously, that not to many people are going to compare the V6 Accord to the V6 Mustang. They are 2 completely different cars despite the HP. As with the case of the Fusion, the 2door version would be aimed at the 2 door Accord the Toyota Solara and so forth. The Mustang is aimed at the 350Z, Mazda RX-8 and so forth.

  

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the V6 2 door Accord have more HP than the Mazda RX-8 ? I haven't seen any comparison test between the RX-8 and the Accord. Besides all you have to do is give the V6 Mustang a few more HP's and the Mustang should be safe.

 

I see what your saying ANT14. However, despite the V6 Mustang I still think there is a place for the 2 door coupe version of a Midsize sedan (Fusion) and it not kill the Mustang's sales. Besides Ford needs to stop living and dying off of the Mustang. Besides if you did make a 2 door coupe version of the Fusion you could sell a ton of them compared to the total of 150,000 Mustangs. What's wrong with have 2 hot cars near the same price point but 2 different flavors. It's called C & D's 10 best and every bodies favorite topic market share. The last time I remembered there's nothing wrong with that.

 

Now I'm sure you could use some of those points to make a viable business case to Mr. Ford. Please make a 2 door version of the Fusion please !!!!!!! Oh and most importantly make the V6 available with a manual stick please !!!

 

Thanks

TheMan123

savetheland

"Will be interesting to see how the Fusion stacks up against the new S.... from that H....company that noone wants to hear about."

 

You mean new Honda Sedan ? Accord ? New ???

samnoe

It's Hyundai Sonota. Go back a few post and you'll see everything.

andyman73

Until the Duratec 35 makes it into the Fusion line up. That S from H will be competitive, especially if the price remains traditional H pricing.

johnclineii

And, although I have the utmost confidence in Ford, the Fusion would be far more competitive with the H from S, especially with young people, if it had a longer warranty than 3/36. It's time that the Fords had the same or better warranty than at least the Hondas and Toyotas of the world, not to mention the 10/100 warranty that H offers (but HAD to due to its poor reputation at the time for reliability).

ANT14

I know of an aquaintance that bought a Kia for it's 5 year warranty. She uses it every other weekend actually. She tells me "I bought it because of the great warranty"... I tell her "It means your covered, it doesn't guarantee it's a good reliable product overall". She bought it after her Taurus of 7 years gave her 2 issues (power window motor replacement, alternator). Supposedly she had it, couldn't stand it anymore, never again, etc.etc.

 

Yet with her beloved Kia, "Well, it's a new company, they are just having growing pains". And her issues are hitting the 15 mark....

 

I'm a proponent of a longer 4 year warranty (giving PAG brands 5 years).

nvbanker

So am I. The Fusion looks great. The comments on the Milan so far have been very positive. This could be a great looking car... Mercury needs one...

skibry1

One would feel more confident in there purchase if while paying

Mr. Banker all failures are covered.

bruce6

Are any pictures of the Milan floating around? I hope it's not another low-budget badge-engineering job like the Montego.

nvbanker

"I hope it's not another low-budget badge-engineering job like the Montego."

 

Compared to what for the same money, bruce?

nextmoon

Can anyone give some thoughts into whether the "Mazda6-derived sport wagon, internally called the Ford Edge, is slated to debut in 2006" (quote from another web article) is a wagon version of the Fusion or entirely different model line?

ehaase

The Edge is probably a Ford version of the Lincoln Aviator (shown in concept version last year).

johnclineii

I'm not so sure. Ant told us earlier there WOULD be a wagon version of the Fusion, though my bet is that it probably won't be called a wagon.

dudleyr

I don't care what it is called (people can be so shallow that a name/category can have such an impact on their vehicle choice) as long as they have a wagon style.

bruce6

Compared to the Fusion. Duh. That is, if the Milan is going to be just a Fusion with a different grill, they ought to just pull the plug on Mercury before it becomes any more of an embarrassment.