Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan

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Comments

  • jcat707jcat707 Member Posts: 169
    I have been very proud of Ford lately. They are really getting their act together in my opinion. I am really excited about the Fusion. I think it exactly the car that they needed. I always felt that they needed a car to go in between the focus and the taurus/500 and soon they will. Now they will have a car for everyone. Just like their trucks, the cars will come in all sizes. Small(focus,escape), medium(explorer,fusion), large(expedition,500), and extra large(excursion,crown victoria).
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Ironically Extra Large will get killed. Excursion will be replaced by an extended length Expedition next year, and CV will go to fleet duty since in many ways it's smaller than the 500.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The Lincoln doesn't look that different from the Fusion, so don't expect the Mercury to be very distinguished either.

     

    -juice
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    Not sorry to see the Excursion go.

     

    I wonder what is in the wings to replace the Crown Vic - I doubt they can sell the current model to police forever, and I don't think they will give up that market.
  • ehaaseehaase Member Posts: 328
    There are various rumors about the Crown Vic replacement. One rumor is that it will be a stretched Five Hundred. The other rumors it that it will use an Australian Ford platform.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    And your missing one other rumor as well.
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    My question (duh) is, bruce, for this kind of money, what do you get that isn't upgraded badge-engineering from anybody? A Lexus IS-300 is a Toyota Altezza in Japan.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    And that is ......
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Sometimes when your serving yourself at a salad bar, you always keep an eye as to what other people are creating, and when something is good enough that you wish to copy, you want to add your own salad dressing to make it even better. But in the end, it's all just salad, it's the dressing that ties it all together.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Except that Toyota doesnt sell the Altezza in the US.

     

    I believe that Bruce's point is that the Montego and Five Hundred are virtually identical-theres no reason to buy one over the other. Even GM is doing a better job of badge engineering- the Malibu and G6, for example, look and drive differently, as does the Saab 9-3. Ford's version of this seems to continue the ill-fated fascia and taillamps revisions so prevalent in the 80s.

     

    ~alpha
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    Bringing back the Galaxie? With a little ranch dressing.

     

    Ant14 - how are the odds for a Fusion Wagon (4-cyl MT)?
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Nutra-Slim...
  • andyman73andyman73 Member Posts: 322
    Well, at my salad bar, I see the new Charger, and at the far end the rumor of a RWD big Chebby. So, that is a possibility in the competition for the full size market. But I could be eating at the wrong restaruant, too.

     

    Love them Aussie Fords, tho'! Like that Falcon, and the one they use in the Aussie touring car races.
  • nedc2nedc2 Member Posts: 192
    I've heard TWO other rumours:

     

    1. A platform derived from the current Ford Explorer.

     

    2. Another overhaul of the current Panther platform.

      

    Just rumours though.
  • a_l_hubcapsa_l_hubcaps Member Posts: 518
    My interpretation of that hint: Ford sees the Chrysler 300 and likes it, but they really want to put the CV replacement on D3 (Five Hundred platform). So they're going to make a car on D3 that's styled like the 300. That is to say, the platform is the salad, the styling is the dressing.

     

    -Andrew L
  • nvbankernvbanker Member Posts: 7,239
    Maybe the First Ever G6 is way different than the Bu', I haven't rented either yet, which is the only way you'll ever see me in either one. I don't know about them. But-excuse me, calling the Trailblazer a Saab is a joke, and again, Saab is not in the price range we're talking about.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Well let's put it this way, if your hearing rumors, (and different variations) then it's a good sign something will happen, correct?
  • rsx-sfanrsx-sfan Member Posts: 15
    I hope it is. LOL. How about the 427. I never saw the concept face to face, but is it larger than the 500? If it is I think they should use it as a replacement.
  • flasvtflasvt Member Posts: 64
    GM doing a better job?!

     

    Trailblazer, Envoy, Ranier, Saab 9-7X and the late Bravada... identical vehicles. The differentiation between the interior design of the Escalade, Yukon and Tahoe is minimal and the exterior isn't all that different especially between the last two. How about the Subaru and the Saab 9-2X and a.k.a. Saabaru. And then Ford makes a better job differentiating the Navigator from the Expedition and the Aviator from the Explorer, not only cosmetically but mechanically and dynamically. The fact remains that Ford's new car entries aren't that different from each other but all of them are excellent vehicles, with state of the art 4WD systems, solid platforms and classy interiors. Something that can't be said about the Malibu and G6, for example.

     

    So what is more important, offer a good and solid vehicle or doing a good job differentiating the same mediocre car so you can charge more for one of them?

     

    I wish that Ford would do a better job differentiating their offers from the same architecture but in my opinion at least Ford is the one that has got its priorities right.
  • a_l_hubcapsa_l_hubcaps Member Posts: 518
    ANT-

     

    Well, I hope Ford has something good up its sleeve to replace the CV/GM. I've been very happy with what Ford has been doing for the past few years, and I hope they don't ruin the streak. I'd personally like to see the CV/GM stay RWD and even BOF, but those chances seem slim. At least I'd like to see it keep the classic boxy styling and "big car" looks. We'll see what happens.

     

    -Andrew L
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    The boxy styling and huge front/rear overhangs are the issues that most have deemed it "old".
  • a_l_hubcapsa_l_hubcaps Member Posts: 518
    ANT-

     

    Yes, but if you move the car to D3, take away the boxy styling and the overhangs, then you have a Five Hundred. If that's what they're going to do, they might as well just make a commercial heavy-duty version of the Five Hundred and be done with it.

     

    Maybe we should start a Future CV/GM thread...

     

    -Andrew L
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Do you know if the 500 or the Fusion is "a goin racin'" in NASCAR?
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    I'm out of the loop when it comes to Nascar.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    Do you know if the 500 or the Fusion is "a goin racin'" in NASCAR?

     

    I'm curious about that too.

     

    My money goes on the Fusion as it is rumored to have an ST (NOT SVT) version in the works. Plus it would just plain look better. Don't get me wrong, the Five Hundred is a nice car but it just doesn't seem to have the slants and curves that would make it recognizeable in the current NASCAR cookie cutter mold. The Fusion would be a better fit in that mold.

     

    *EDIT*

    Actually I just Googled Fusion and NASCAR and found out that the Fusion will indeed be Ford's entry in 2006.
  • ehaaseehaase Member Posts: 328
    The rumors I pick up either come from Automotive News or from people who prove themselves reliable at the message boards. I wish that the Mustang platform had been flexible enough for use as a sedan.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    My point was that even GM's most recent platform sharing has yielded cars that drive and look different. GMs 'crossover sport vans', despite not being at the top of the class, have different interior schemes and instrumentation, and drive differently from what I've read. Ford's most recent sharing has not yielded the same thing. Yes, I agree, the interiors in most Fords are better than the GM competing vehicle. But I was not arguing that. FWIW, the platform that the Malibu, G6, and 9-3 use is a very solid one. The 9-3 especially is a well executed version, and aside from the monochromatic interior, is a good vehicle. But I digress.

     

    So Im still wondering how the Milan is going to positioned and how it is going to be different from the Fusion, which looks very attaractive.

     

    ~alpha
  • rsx-sfanrsx-sfan Member Posts: 15
    That would be great if you could see a Mustang in NASCAR instead of a Taurus. What ever happened with SVT though? They eliminated it from the Focus line. Is there still going to be an F-150 Lightning? Would the Fusion have a 240hp engine. It currently has a 200 hp V6 as it's top engine right?
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Fusion will have 210HP from it's 3.0L DOHC V6 VCT.

     

    SVT will return next year, with more product, not just Ford.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    ...and you will see the 2007 SVT Mustang Cobra for the first time at the New York Auto Show in April (I think). Rumors are flying all over Mustang boards about this one. The latest has it equipped with the same motor from the Ford GT. 550 HP in a Mustang seems a little over the top but I'm not complaining. :)

     

    Price will surely be an issue for me though. I'll just stick with a GT vert in two years.
  • 6yearoldpassat6yearoldpassat Member Posts: 26
    Hi ANT,

      I spent a little more time poking around the other forums and found this reference on the Honda Accord Diesel forum:

     

    ... 2.7 v-6 common rail diesel 206 hp 360 ft.lbs. torque @1800 rpm and 47.8 mpg at steady state interstate speed. Over 43 mpg at least the Ford of Europe's offering in the Jag...

     

    Is this the engine that might come in the Fusion or FiveHundred? If so, I'll probably order mine now.

     

    Bill
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    The diesel team Ford has put together are studying all possible diesel engines used abroad. Although diesel fuel prices are currently at premium unleaded fuel prices. The hybrid system is the one that I see more probabilities from overall.
  • bruce6bruce6 Member Posts: 29
    Indeed, lots of companies build cars off the same platform and still manage to give them a meaningfully different look and feel. Ford actually did that quite well in the '80s with the original Taurus/Sable. VW still does it (the Audi TT and VW Golf/Jetta/Beetle all come from the same platform. And whatever one thinks of GM (and I am not a fan) the Malibu and G6 look entirely unrelated. Recent Mercuries are simply Fords with different grills and slightly different trim. That's hardly a way to revive a brand with little identity in the public mind.
  • frasierdogfrasierdog Member Posts: 128
    Using ANT14's analogy .. (Can we call you Anthony?)

     

    There are 4 guys at the salad bar. Bill Ford is behind the other 3 guys. The 3 guys in front brought their own HO V6 salad dressing. Bill Ford is using the old dressing from the salad bar.

     

    Bill says to the other 3 guys, "You just wait, the dressing I have at home will be better than all of yours."

     

    Problem is, we are eating today.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Sure, although ANT is quicker to type.

     

    Actually the salad bar senario was over the possible RWD/AWD sedan people are asking for to battle the 300.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    And here I am just looking for the croutons.

     

    Sigh.
  • andyman73andyman73 Member Posts: 322
    I like salad, and am willing to wait for a good dressing, and croutons do add a nice touch. I'll just keep circling the salad bar until it shows up.

     

    Beats circling the drain! :D
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    Does or doesn't the Fusion have command seating?
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Sits higher, but not officially.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    Thanks!
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    I was reading the latest MT last night. In the sidebar of an article about the next SVT Mustang Cobra, Hau Tai Tang, the new head of SVT and special vehicles at Ford as well as the chief engineer on the '05 Mustang, mentioned that SVT products won't be limited to Ford branded vehicles anymore. But the thing that really caught my eye was that they mentioned dropping a 300 HP version of the intercooled, direct injection 2.3L I4 from the upcoming MAZDASPEED6 into the Ford Fusion. AWD and outstanding handling will also be part of the package given SVT's past record and the fact that AWD is standard on the MPS6.

     

    I for one think this is pretty exciting news and can't wait to see what else SVT has up their sleeves!

     

    One more thing. The MPS6 is priced around the $30k range so expect the Fusion to be around there too.
  • ehaaseehaase Member Posts: 328
    Is Ford going to produce a 2.3 turbo SVT Fusion instead of the 3.5L Fusion ST?
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Both options are still being studied, look for the latter most probably since there seems to be more development concentration, over that product.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    If they do in fact go the ST route let's hope it's not a joke like the Focus ST.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    Let's not confuse ST with SVT. Street Tune is a vastly different program, with much less resources than SVT. ST is mainly a vehicle, that has a few added toys, power...sort of like a sportier model. Whereas SVT is a different group, with much higher performance expectations.
  • johnclineiijohnclineii Member Posts: 2,287
    And only SOME Ford dealers are SVT dealers, right?
  • chris65amgchris65amg Member Posts: 372
    An SVT Fusion would totally defeat the purpose of the Fusion, which is to battle CamCord sales. Also, someone needs to whack the Ford engineers. 210 will not cut it in a land of 250-hp Altimas. Sorry Ford, but when they redid the Taurus in the mid-90's, they alienated people, and the Fusion (silly name, anyway) will not be enough to bring them back. Or away from Camry or Accord.

     

    As for the salad bar of midsize sedans, Toyota, Honda, and Nissan are fighting over the Caesar, VW and GM are munching on croutons, Chrysler is just getting there, and Ford went to meet up with Mitsubishi at a fast food joint.

     

    Hooray for analogies. But my point is that Fusion can't compete because Ford isn't making it superior to the competition. Although only a real test will tell, I'm not initially impressed iwth the Fusion.

     

    And yes, only certain Ford dealerships sell SVT's.
  • ANT14ANT14 Member Posts: 2,687
    John,

     

    Yes, about 1000 are able to sell SVT products.

     

    Chris,

     

    So considering you haven't driven the Fusion, how can you assess that it's not as competitive as a Accord or Camry ? I guess if you mean as compeitive for being boring, then no it won't beat them on being boring. It's actually a fun car to drive overall, and will be placed next to Altima , Passat and Mazda6 is fun factor.

     

    BTW, 40% of new 500 buyers were not previous Ford owner's before, which wasn't anticipated.
  • venus537venus537 Member Posts: 1,443
    but have you driven the car?

     

    it should be pretty much like the mazda6 though. hope it's quieter than the mazda though.

     

    the passat isn't any more sportier than the accord and the altima sacrifices too much ride comfort for its agility. the mazda is just right in base set up. too bad the fusion will be saddled with the duratec.

     

    please tell those clear tail lights won't make it to the production car.
  • chris65amgchris65amg Member Posts: 372
    OK, I am a little biased against Ford, but they have failed on so many levels in the past couple of years that it's hard to be optimistic about a new midsize sedan. Just by numbers, the Fusion doesn't bring much to the segment. So, it's based off the Mazda6. I personally like the Accord way more than the 6. Fun doesn't matter to the vast majority of people who buy midsize sedans, so its ludicrious to think that Ford will sell even as much as the Altima. So if we're talking sales, it's less than 100k Mazda 6's per year, and more than 400k for Camry and Accord. Add to that the fact that Mercury's new Milan will just be a re-skin, and you have THREE cars that are the same mechanically (yes, their suspensions will be different and stuff, but not a bunch of difference). Not to mention the Lincoln Zepher coming out one of these days. 500's are a whole nother can of worms.... a lot of Ford's problems are with its engines. (I mean, I get 215 from my Corolla, which I put a Camry I-4 in and had it supercharged). It shouldn't be so hard for Ford to get with the program, but other than the fact that the 500 is gigantic, I can't see much that makes it better than a 300 or Avalon. And I thought that GM was the worst with badge engineering. I'm out

     

    ---Chris

     

    (hmm, good idea. I should test drive one)
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