Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan

gogophers1

I find these 2 posts interesting as I'm also a younger (as in not yet 30 but getting uncomfortably close) person who is interested in the same vehicles. I've driven the V6 Mustang and liked it, but I need a open-roof option, so it's out of contention in anything other than convertible guise - which is more than I care to spend for a car that seems a bit impractical for our 6 month Minnesota winters.

I too like all members of the 6-Fusion-Milan trio, but perhaps because I'm approaching the big 3-0, the Mercury version looks a bit more appealing to me. It's too conservative to be a "punk" ride, but too stylish to be a "grandpa" car. But they all look great (I just saw the latter two in person at the Mpls. Auto Show).

The fact that ANYONE under 40, yet alone a person just entering college, is describing a new Mercury in something other than the perjorative is a very good sign for Ford. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the manual tranny option doesn't get nixed right before production starts.

dudleyr

"you think they got 4 MPG better WHILE doing 0-60 in 8.6 secs? not even close"

Where is all this WHILE stuff coming from, and how is it relevant?

Let me simplify it a little.

Both automatic and manual are going 65 mph - the manual gets 4 mpg better.

Both manual and automatic are being timed to 60 mph. The manual is nearly a second faster.

As far as beating EPA numbers goes, I have never had a car that could not do so easily. After all, you have to add 28% to the EPA highway number just to get the number the EPA measured (see www.fueleconomy.gov). Now very large cars with big engine and lots of weight, drag and poor aerodynamics tend to have a harder time exceeding the EPA estimates.

To stay slightly on track. The reasons I have outlined are why I hope the Fusion has a nice manual tranny.

Now how about a station wagon!

jeffyscott

I am looking at chart from CR, April 2005. Shows Maxda 3 at overall 27 mpg with 4 speed ATX and 30 mpg with 5 speed MTX. Rest of MTXs differ by -1 to +3 from ATX, but all have the additional gear in the MTX.

I drive an MTX and I get 1-3 mpg less than the EPA highway numbers going 65-75. OTOH I have, sometimes, gotten slightly above the EPA highway numbers with ATX Windstar.

Also bringing this back on topic...
The fusion will have as many or more gears in the ATX as the MTX. I'd predict little or no difference in MPG for the ATX vs. MTX, because of this.

ANT14

I can chime in on that from personal experience. I've test driven 4 cylinders vehicles at high speeds and have received lower MPG mileage, than the same vehicle with 6 cylinders. There's a certain line where one engine or transmission loses it's advantage, where the opposite spectrum gains it.

One case comes to mind (from the vehicles mentioned above). I achieved 14-15MPG on a 2.3L 4 cylinder uh, hmmmmm...Mazda6. While the Mustang 4.0L V6 returned 19-20MPG. Both the same course, both with sustain speeds of 95-100MPH (A/C off).

dudleyr

That is coving some ground quickly.

Used to be able to do that in Montana, but they now have a speed limit. It used to be that there were no posted limits.

tysalpha

Well -- as gogophers said, wheter one prefers an AT or a MT, transmission choice has to do with personal preference more than fuel economy or performance. In thinking about my next car I've actually considered the "manuals are less likely to be stolen" argument, as I live in St. Louis (which is like #2 next to Detroit for auto theft), and go to grad school in a not-so-nice part of town. But then I drive to work (40 minutes to drive 10 miles), and I think, "I couldn't do this with having to clutch the whole time," and forget about the MT.

In any case, I'm all for people having choices. Most will choice automatics, but a lot of entheusiasts won't.

tysalpha

"I find these 2 posts interesting as I'm also a younger (as in not yet 30 but getting uncomfortably close) person who is interested in the same vehicles..."

Gogophers- wait till you hit 31. At least at 30 I still felt like I was "on the fence". At 31 there's no turning back, and you're just sliding towards the grave!

I completely agree with you though, Mercury has a hit on their hands, when people in the 25-35 age bracket are talking about a Mercury they'd own, instead of their grandparents' old Grand Marquis! The last Mercury I can remember liking was an 88-89 Cougar, and even then arguably the Thunderbird was more attractive.

skibry1

I,like gogophers,prefer to be more involved with the
joy of driving hence the left-leg flexor,and also my wife has never asked to borrow my car! I'm excited
about the Fusion 'cause the clutch and the upright
seating. After test driving it my next hurdle will
be getting over it's country of assembly. At 48 I
don't worry about image...comfort and reliabilty are
higher on my priority list. We ive in a smaller town
and have little to no bumper/bumper traffic.

dyuen

I've driven the Taurus and I am mighty glad the Fusion is coming out soon. Bravo to the designers of this vehicle, this car definitely stands out from the crowd on the outside. A bit disappointing on the interior though, could jazz up a little. With 4WD available later in the model year, the Fusion is at the top of my list.

jathen

Thanks gogophers, I'm running over there tonight to check them out. (fusion, milan) I can't tell you how excited I am.

gogophers1

RE: wait till you hit 31. At least at 30 I still felt like I was "on the fence". At 31 there's no turning back, and you're just sliding towards the grave!

Tysalpha, you're really not giving me a lot to look forward to here . I just had a female friend of mine last night hassling me about some gray hairs. Hey, at least they're not falling out!

Jathen: Please let us know your impressions from the auto show.

The friend I went with didn't care for the extra-chromey three bar grill on the Fusion, but I rather liked it. As far as the Milan, the ONLY thing I didn't find appealing was the oversized Mercury emblem pasted on the front. By our estimates (we couldn't close in because it was up on a platform), it had to be a least four inches in diameter. You can literally make it out from the Buick display. It's colossal.

xmf314

I saw the Fusion at the LA auto show. In terms of styling, I give it a big thumbs up.

The Ford boys may have a hit on their hands here.

dblagent

The only thing that I don't like so much on the Fusion is the grill. I wish that there was an option for a black or "black chrome" look available for the grill. Maybe the SVT version will makr something like this available later on. It's not bad, but I like the so called dark and stark look on my cars.

It also gives ths cops one less thing to aim the laser guns at.... Can't hurt!

jeffyscott

Dark grill would look better to me too. I like the look of the base 500 better than higher trim levels, because of that same thing.

I also don't like the silvery tail lights and not too sure about the headlights on the Fusion.

gogophers1

Good point on the laser gun... maybe I will rethink my position on the attractiveness of oversized, heavily chromed front-ends.

The headlights look a LOT better in person than they do in pics though.

xmf314

I thought the grill looked better in person than in the pics. It's all a matter of taste.

jeffyscott

I've seen it in person. But yes, of course, "It's all a matter of taste".

dbauer

"Hey, at least they're not falling out!"

HEY!!! i take that personally! ;-)

jathen

Over all I'm impressed. I ended up going to the auto show twice, needing more time to look at the specifics on each make and model. I have to say that it is not easy to pick a favorite. Each model has characteristics that I like and dislike. I think we can all agree that if we could, we would combine the things we like from each of them. It's not easy or possible to please everyone. I feel the Ford Corporation desires an A in there efforts to bring new life into there family of vehicles. I will be more then happy to give my opinions on each of make and model if asked.

jathen

I didn't mind the chrome bars on the Fusion. What I didn't like was the space under the 3rd bar above the bumper. In my opinion a 4th bar is needed.

What is your opinion on the 2 bars in the bumper?

skibry1

jathen did FoMoCo have any 5 spds?

theman123

Man the show was that good ? Well you saw the Fusion, what did you think of the Milan ???

jathen

skibry- Both FMC vehicles had automatics. I'm a little disappointed myself that they didn't have at least one on display. You know after thinking about it I haven't even seen pictures showing a manual in one of these vehicles. Something new to keep my eyes open for.

theman- I think the Milans exterior is very sharp. I liked the style of the grill the best, but in my opinion I felt the emblem was a little large, as gogophers had also mentioned. But this is a trend I'm noticing with many manufactures. I will tell you though, I was a little disappointed with the interior. I felt the interior was a little plain. I was expecting it to be more refined.

theman123

Thanks for the Reply. What exactly was so plain about the interior, the dash, seats what? The style I notice they advertise allot is the 2 two tone black light parchment leather. That 2 tone leather interior treatment is what appeals to me. Another Question, did you actually get a chance to sit in either of the cars ??

jathen

theman- I guess I was talking overall appearance. The interior was solid black leather, not the two tones we are now seeing as an option in many of their vehicles. I wouldn't have minded, except for the fact the exterior was also black. I'm not a big fan of a black exterior/interior combination. I like to see some contrast. I have not seen pictures of the Milan with the two tone leather interior. Is it an option? If it is anything like their other vehicles it should be a hit.

I liked the gauge colors on the dash better then the Fusion. Taken as a whole, I didn't feel the instrument panel in the Milan is as sophisticated or well-appointed as I'm use to seeing in Mercury vehicles. Also, I would have liked the climate controls included with the other instruments that are encased in the nickel molding.

Both vehicles were on platforms, so I didn't get a chance to play in either of them. Wouldn't that have been a treat!

gogophers1

I agree with the color thing. I've noticed this before - pre-production models always seem to be displayed in black. Which is great... if you like black.

Jathen, hopefully you got the mini-brochure for the Milan. It has a lot of shots of the car in a light green color (it's probably the "light tundra" hue currently available in other Ford products) that looks REALLY sharp IMO, particularly with the nickel-colored exterior trim.

I didn't think anything else was needed on the grill of the Fusion. To my eyes, it looks sharp as-is. Likewise, the black on black does nothing for me. It would've been nice to see one with a neutral or beige colored interior as that's more my gig... oh well.

I liked the interiors of both cars, clean and attractive though perhaps a bit sterile. Considering these two will start under $20K MSRP, I think they compare very well.

The problem I always have with the auto show is that I check out almost EVERY car there and after I sit in a number of $50K+ MBs, Audis and Jaguars, all the cars I can actually afford seem really chintzy. Perhaps you were doing the same?

jathen

Gogopher- Yes, I did get the brochure on the Milan. I agree, the light tundra metallic makes it (especially the front end) look well-defined, though I'm not usually a big fan of this color.

I also agree with you on the interiors. When you put them side by side with other cars in the same class they compare as well, if not better in some cases. As I have heard in this discussions many times, to each their own. It's too bad we can't pick and choose what goes into our own vehicles!

Yes, I do the same thing at auto shows. Afterwards it makes it more difficult to come back to reality. Hence the reason I went a second time this year. I wanted to spend more time on vehicles in my price range. Any ideas how much more the Lincoln Zephyr will be?

ANT14

A few thousand more, prices have yet to be set but it'll be $2K more than the fully loaded Fusion. And that's the starting price...As you load it up, it'll obviously increase in price although there's not much of an option list for the Zephyr.

baggs32

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2005-03-21-fordfusion-usat_x.htm

I think everyone here has run through this on Ford's site at least once. Now it looks like Ford is really trying to get the word out.

Pretty good idea if you ask me!

gogophers1

But you can't get the Zephyr with a stick. That tells me I must not be in their target market anyway.

Great look though- very attractive grill and upscale dash. One thing struck me as odd about the Zephyr dash though: the circular vents (ala F-150). A dash with the 90 degree angle look needs square outlets, not round ones.

I wonder when somebody is going to get the Zephyr thread going...

theman123

They Do have a Zephyr Thread going, it's been up since december I think and it has 4 pages of replies or something like that. People have told Lincoln in plain English they think it sucks and they don't want it. I'm not very fond of it myself so, here's the link if you want to see it.

andyman73, "Lincoln Zephyr" #273, 9 Feb 2005 2:42 am!make=Lincoln&model=RELATED&ed_makeindex=.ef26649

johnclineii

To be fair, the people who post here (including me) are probably not very representative of potential Lincoln Zephyr buyers...

jrosasmc

Is the Fusion V-6 engine going to be the same 3.0-liter Duratec unit currently found in the Five Hundred/Freestyle? And if so will it have differentiating features between the two models, such as electronic throttle, higher horsepower, etc?

johnclineii

It is my understanding it is the same engine, tuned very slightly differently...

ANT14

Tuned differently...while incorporating VCT, and a bit quieter.

lexusrocks

I would love it if they would create a Ford Fusion SVT model with at least 300 horsepower.
They should offer a sport suspension, a body kit and a small spoiler.
Nissan Maxina has 265 hp, the Honda Accord has 240 hp, and the Toyota Camry has about 220 hp. 200 horsepower was good about five years ago. If the Fusion is going to be competitive, the base engine with 200 hp can be kept, and an engine with about 250 hp should be offered. Ford can use the 3.9L V6 in the Lincoln LS that gives 250 hp.

Hey, if Chevrolet can make an SS version of a boring car like the Malibu and Malibu Maxx, then Ford should seriously have an SVT version of the Fusion.

Finally, I think the Fusion needs a navigation system option, as all it's Japanese rivals offer one.

ANT14

There will be Fusion ST270 which is a 270HP version. As to an SVT variant, that's still being considered at this time.

skibry1

Four doors and a clutch...plez...consider!!!

baggs32

Ford can use the 3.9L V6 in the Lincoln LS that gives 250 hp.

That's the V8 in the LS. The V6 is still the 3.0L Duratec which makes 232 HP.

I honestly don't know why Ford doesn't offer one of the versions of the Duratec30 in the Fusion and/or Five Hundred right now. I don't think either one of them is under powered at all but a little more HP would help sway some people over in the long run. Especially in the FH due to it's size and weight. I guess the Duratec35 will satisfy those buyers if they can wait.

Here's what they have available with more power right now (all are the Duratec30):

Mazda6 - 220HP@6300/192ft-lbs@5000
Lincoln LS - 232HP@6750/220ft-lbs@4500
Jaguar X-Type - 227HP@6800/206ft-lbs@3000
Jaguar S-Type - 235HP@6800/216ft-lbs@4100

Fusion - 210HP@6250/200ft-lbs@4750

Actually when you look at it that way the Fusion is not so bad after all. Too bad there's still no MTX for the V6 though.

jeffyscott

Don't these cars (with ATX) generally shift at something like 5000 rpm? If so, of what value is the HP figure at 6000+ rpm?

dbauer

the LS and S-type are not duratec-30 engines, and the 500 and fusion ARE.

baggs32

the LS and S-type are not duratec-30 engines,

What makes you say that Dave? Everything I've ever read about them says they are Duratec30 blocks with different heads and other misc internal parts. The LS has a 3.9L V8 option and the S-Type has a 4.2L V8 option. Otherwise you're getting a 3.0L Duratec or a specialty version.

I think you're confused because they don't call the 3.0L options for the luxury cars the "Duratec" engine. After all, Ford doesn't want someone who just shelled out over $40k for his Jag to have the same engine name as Joe Taurus down the street. It's still the same block and basic architecture though.

One more to ponder:
According to MT the V12s used in Aston Martin's cars are basically two Duratec30s fused together.

Here's some proof for you:
http://www.automotive.com/2005/43/jaguar/s-type/reviews/driving-impressions/

http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/wagons/0412_jaguar_xtype_wagon/

http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/mostwanted/2000/60956/article.html

http://waw.wardsauto.com/ar/auto_allnew_lincolncan_ls/

According to the last link both versions of the Duratec30 for the LS and the S-Type are made in Cleveland, OH.

ANT14

Also, the higher output Duratec's require premium fuel, not something most are willing to pay for at that pricepoint. The 220HP version used in the Mazda6, is as the higher output version that uses regular fuel standard.

The 210HP Duratec30 in the Fusion will sport higher torque, at lower RPM's over the other versions. And the 6 speed automatic will certainly take advantage of this.

badgerfan

And have been happily enjoying my Duratech in my 2000 Taurus SES for four years now. It's paid for and is running great and has all the power and torque I need, all for $18K when new plus tax, title and license. 28-30 MPG highway as well.

Ford, please never forget about we "Joe Tauri's" who like a bit of performance at a good price-it is your heritage from the days of the Model T.

Yes you can provide the luxury crowd with Lincoln and Volvo, but please keep us in mind!

baggs32

Amen to that!

Mark my words, in a few years this same conversation will be going on about the Duratec35.

claudius753

I'll be in the market for a new car about when Fusion arrives. I am considering Honda Civic since the '06 is supposed to be a bit larger and more premium, but I really like the looks of the Fusion. I want nice features and looks. The Fusion seems to have this. But I also want good economy.

Now I know it won't match a Civic, they aren't quite in the same class, but what would you estimate a Fusion's fuel economy to be? Both the 2.3 w/5AT and the 3.0 w/ 6AT. If I can expect something like 20/30 mpg I would seriously consider a Fusion. The Five Hundred gets 21/29 with the 6AT and Duratec30 I would think that is possible with the V6 because of the 6AT would help out. I have been focusing on japanese imports as they are typically well built and get good f/e. But domestics have come a long way, esp. Ford, and I can't believe I have now seen a Ford mid-size that is desireable.

I think 200hp is plenty for most people, and a 270hp ST model would suit others. The Fusion seems that it will be a bit smaller than CamCord and so wouldn't need quite as much power, while the Five Hundred is larger, and would make due with more power.

Even if I don't get one, I think Ford has a real winner on it's hands with the Fusion/Milan, though I don't much care for the looks of the Zephyr.

jeffyscott

I think you answered your own question...if the larger, heavier 500 gets 21/29, I'd certainly expect the fusion/milan to get the same or better mileage. Maybe about 22/30???

ANT14

Take a look at this years Mazda6 fuel estimates for a comparison. Make sure it's this year where the Mazda6 upgrades to the 6 speed automatic from the previous 5 speed unit.

alpha01

There is no such vehicle as a Lexus GS330. The only Lexus vehicles that share the Camry 3.3L are the RX and ES. However, Ford does use the Duratec in the $50K Jaguar S type.

~alpha

grega

EXCUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUSE ME! Sorry its a GS300, same story, it uses the SAME 3L V6 as the Camry, RX, Avalon, etc.

As for price, the GS300 is $44K and so is the Jag S-Type 3.0! BOTH use variable value timing to justify the higer price for the V6.