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Fusion supposed to be what Mazda6 is not – midsize car, or at least big compact. Will it compete with Camry? I do not think so. Ford cannot make car that can compete with Camry. ’96 Taurus was the proof. The objective of ’96 Taurus was to beat Camry and it couldn’t do it. Before Taurus was competing with Accord offering bigger and more stylish car with V6. To compete with Camry no style good handling is required, but everything else must be smooth, including high quality interior.
IMO Fusion is moving back to original Taurus mission – to beat Accord. I guess it will be smaller than Camry, but larger than Accord. It will also have good suspension like Accord and can be modified to be a true sport sedan. Accord still has advantage in engine, but that’s all. Accord braking or transmission is nothing special. Accord also is not either smooth or quiet. Fusion has advantage over Accord – it is stylish. And most likely has better suspension and better steering feeling (it is to be seen). So Fusion can beat Accord in theory.
I did not see Fusion interior. But it is a matter of taste anyway if it is done good enough. I do not need car interior to be perfect, but I need it to be good, well designed and not cheap. I was in Accord and did not find anything special about it – not bad, but I wouldn’t buy it only because of its interior – it did not impress me.
This car will be big seller. It is much better looking than anything offered by DaimlerChrysler and light years beyond the Chevy Malibu and Pontiac G6. Of course it is... The Ford Studio took the best traits of the import scnene and melded them into one package at the blessing of Bill Ford. Heck they even put the gas tank on the left side like a Honda!
These cars will not match either Honda's or Toyota's resale values... but they will sell off the lots because it's the first attractive sedan and psuedo sporty from Ford in YEARS. So long as the reliability is up there (unlike some other cars from Ford's not so distant past), then I think they have a winner.
I will be curious to see the all new Accord due out in 2 years and the new Camry next year.
Ford went to New Edge design before GM did the whole Art & Science look, also.
Fusion is way too edgy to be mistaken for any Honda.
-juice
Considering Ford's roster of design talent these days, I'd be willing to bet that there are no deliberate attempts to copy any previous design in the Fusion. While I can see similarities to other cars, I think the overall feel of that car, particularly the front end, is fairly original and fresh. While I'd like to see more daring and original designs from Ford, I think much of the perceived copycatting is often (but not always) in our heads.
I hope these cars are a success... Otherwise soon I am afraid there will be no more American car companies (unless of course more govt bailouts are the order of the day)...
Lack of stability control is a minus point for some.
The cooled seat option on zephyr costs 120 dollars more than Lexus models. Why??
If zephyr fusion is competing with accord, sonata, V6 fusion should get similar EPA mileage rating.
(Horse power rating is not important rating for me..).
But it does not.
Even in spite of these drawbacks I will buy one after 6 months from the time they launch the vehicles.
The reliability of the present generation of Honda is little bit exaggerated. I changed catalytic converter (1500$), Oxygen sensor and evaporative control on the gas tank (530$) already for my Japanese built Honda CRV (2002).
you should post your crv experience on the 'escape vs. crv' thread. it would add some new fuel to the fire.
I hope so, cause I've not read one good thing about the responsiveness of the Five-Hundred AT.
Edmunds review of the Jetta referred to..."the same smooth-shifting Tiptronic six-speed automatic used in the Audi A4" and also that "the Jetta's six-speed automatic transmission's shifts are seamless".
Mark.
Mark."
Yeah, I know, but there it is just the same. I know another guy who when the new Ford F-150 came out, he said the interior was a blatant rip off the the Dodge RAM. Whatever...
I think it's interesting that the Fusion has a front end that's extremely similar to the 427 show car which got rave reviews, and nobody said the 427 looked like any Japanese design. However, put essentially the same front end on a mid size car, and people call it derivative. I'm not slamming anyone's taste here, it's just an interesting dynamic. It says something about how our brains process these things. I think one of the reasons that so called "retro" designs like the 05 Mustang tend to strike a nerve with the public is that they have an instant connection to something they are familiar with. Radical new designs challenge people, and I think people are programmed to resist this on some level. All things considered, I think the Fusion has just enough personality to stick out in a pretty boring field of sedans without being radical enough to turn off a lot of people. We'll see what the market thinks...
People just don't appreciate how complicated Automobiles are today for the type of work demanded of them.
Imagine what you would think if your brand new car suddenly stalled at a stop light for no apparent reson?
You would throw a fit with a few curse words.
Now imagine what you would think if Internet Explorer crashed on you while you were surfing the net. It is almost expected behavior and its something we live with.
I am hoping that one residual of the Ford Family Plan is that it is going to get people who would never before thought of owning a Ford to consider Ford.
With the Focus, and the Mustang, Ford already has an audience of people who expect a fun to drive car. I am hoping the Fusion will be the next installment of a fun to drive car.
Mark
The slowest time for the Five hundred that I've seen is 8.5 in one of the other car magazines... I think it was Road & Track? Both of those times were with the six speed auto two wheel drive.
I've tried to find 0 to 60 times for The Mazda 6 Six Speed Auto, but I can't find anything. I realize that the Mazda isn't the same weight and things aren't exactly the same with the engine tuning and all of that, but it's close.
The Sonata was timed at 7.0 flat in a recent test in Car & Driver. The Sonata is heavier than the Fusion by I think? a 150 Lbs., but it doesn't have a six speed auto like the Fusion, however it's engine makes more torque and horsepower than the Fusion.
Fusion makes 221 H.P @ 6250 rpm. and 205 lb.- @ 4800 rpm.
Sonata makes 235 H.P @ 6,000 rpm. and 235 lb.- @ 3500 rpm.
Do you think 7.2 seconds to sixty is to optimistic for the Fusion?
Would you happen to know if the latest transmission reflash that is supposed to happen in December to cure the shifting problems ect. in the Five Hundered, be included in the Fusion which is supposed to hit the show rooms in Sep.or would owners of the Fusion haved to wait till Dec. also?
-juice
-juice
I think they have to, or that will be the ball game. Things are just too competitive across the board now. Ford has been on top of the mainstream sedan game before, and there's no reason why they cant do it again, if they really want to. I think it's mostly about long term commitment to product. Ford often comes out with strong first tries in certain segments, then abandons them when things aren't stellar the first time around. The Contour is a good example of that. Had Ford followed up and improved what was wrong with that car (which was very good in many areas) perhaps they would never have been squeezed of of the sedan game. The Lincoln LS has seen a similar treatment. It got strong reviews on release, and was mostly labeled as a strong first try, but not quite up to the standards of best in class. Instead of following up in a couple years with a refresh that addressed the issues of the original, the model languished, and when the refresh came it was pretty minor and visually indistinguishable form the original. Word now is that they are letting it die in favor of a totally different platform/ approach. Of course there are many other examples.
The Fusion looks to be a competitive entry into this segment, but I doubt it's going to topple the class leaders just yet. The real question is whether or not Ford is going to come back strong in a couple years, and a couple years after that, and keep making this car better and better, or simply "good enough." Think of what would have happened if Ford would have refreshed the original Taurus every couple of years instead of squandering the profits on other schemes. People might be asking why the Japanese can't seem to get into the mainstream sedan game. Stop laughing.
Now Honda and Toyota are very good at keeping their cars technically advanced but they are really making this cars very very dull!
Alot of people or at least 192,000 who purchased an 2005 Mustang want their vehicle to be exciting!
Look at it this way, every car or product should have a mission. When I look at the Fusion, who's mission is to get some import buyers in the Ford dealers, get buyers interested in Ford again, and give F-150 owners a sedan from Ford that they are willing to buy, I conclude that MISSION IS ACCOMPLISHED.
Ford is really trying to build alot of VALUE into their cars. VALUE to me is when you get more for what you paid then you might have gotten if you had baught a different car.
Compare the 300 hp Mustang GT at around 28k loaded to a 38k BMW 3 series coupe. See the value?
Mark
~alpha
Also, does anyone have specs on the Fusion? Will it be on the small size (like the Mazda it's supposed to get its chassis from) or on the large size like the Camry.
Incidently, none of the other cars you named (Camcord, Sonata) will come close to having the handling performance of the Fusion.
Also, the 6 cylinder will be priced considerably lower than the Cam/cord V6.
Mark
Also, as far as engines are concerned... The Accord actually has a4 cylinder with +170HP engine that is rated at 160HP (05MY) and the 06's that are on sale next month have in excess of that. The 4 cylinder Accord simply has more power that the 4 cyclinder Ford. The 6 cylinder Accord also has more power that the 6 cylinder Ford. The Accord is also lighter by a significant ammount... Also, that 4 cylinder from the Ford (I mean Mazda) is so unrefined and sluggish. It's a loser to put that engine into a midsized sedan like the Fusion/Mazda6.
I hope the best for Ford or else the Detroit ecomony is going to tank soon... So I hope that Ford has a winner with this car, but what I have seen so far of it's engines leaves me shaking my head more than a little.
Also, I think that if Ford removed that ugly blue oval from this new product line and went with the script written FORD MOTOR CO. that would have been a more appealing look. The import buyers have learned to be repelled by that blue oval...
As long as that UGLY oval is plastered onto every car it is going to keep many buyers away.
further, the Fusion could be heavier than the accord because of all of the pension and healthcare burdons placed on it like other domestics that hire AND KEEP their workers and pay for their healthcare.
if the fusion will be slower than the accord, i do not think it will be by any significant margin, and with the 3.5 coming out soon, this should change substantally.
http://media.ford.com/products/presskit_display.cfm?vehicle_id=1231&press_section_id=398&m- ake_id=92
Do you know this from some dyno test? What source does this come from?
I find the 2.3 from the Mazda 6,5,3 and Focus ST lacking compared to the Honda 2.4 and the 2.0. Not in objective terms (I've never done a timed 0-60 or 1/4mile) but subjectively the Hondas seem to pull harder and longer. Handling is a different story, I enjoy the handling of the 6, much more than the Accord or Civic. Hopefully the Fusion maintains that fun to drive advantage.
For those who might remember some of my postings in the past (probably in other forums here in Edmunds), I made a comment once (where I wasn't able to divulge the information)... And mentioned that one best-selling sedan (and manufacturer for that reason) usually over-rates their HP, well now you can read who that was....
The Accord is also lighter by a significant amount...
According to Ford's Fusion media kit a 4cyl Fusion with ATX weighs in at 3158 lbs. Edmunds tells us that a 4cyl Accord EX with ATX weighs in at 3203 lbs.
Now I'm no math wizard but I think you might want to check your numbers again. :P
For all this talk of *this* car being able to out slalom *that* car.... I don't know a single person who has EVER put their car into a slalom. To me and many other realists, that is a null point to make.
My daily drive to work includes at least 4 "back roads", which are all over 1 mile in length, that do not have a straight, level section on them. Have I ever gone to a track and put my Mazda6 through a real slalom course? No. But I drive on a 5 mile long slalom that goes up and down the side of a mountain every single day. That 6 doesn't just put a smile on my face each time, it makes my whole body smile.
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Sorry, not buying this one bit. It's like saying that quoting 1/4 mile times is pointless because most people never take their cars to drag strips. Putting a car through a slalom gives you a very good idea of the car's handling, which spills over into most aspects of real world driving. I love it when people are so in love with a certain car that when that car is deficient in some characteristic, they immediately dismiss that characteristic as unimportant. You hear it ALL the time in automotive forums of all types of vehicles.
Back to the slalom thing: I think any enthusiast driver would say that they find the slalom capabilities of vehicles an important factor. On face value, the average driver probably doesn't care about those measurements, but that doesn't mean that they don't notice the difference while driving a car. For instance, my own mother, who is far from an auto enthusiast, recently switched from a Ford Crown Vic to a 500. At first she was lamenting the fact that the 500 "didn't have as nice a ride" as the Crown Vic. To her this means not as soft and squishy and too much effort in the steering. However, after a couple weeks, her opinion changed to "wow, this is really great, this car goes exactly where you point it." Looking at the slalom figures for these two cars, among other things, would have hinted at this kind of a difference.
"When Ford unveiled its midsize Fusion sedan in January, it projected 210 horsepower. When it was tested under SAE's official protocol, the engine received a 221 horsepower rating, Twork said. "
http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0508/17/A01-283759.htm
Impressed?
Honda Accord 6 cyl. auto. curb wieght.....3384 lbs.
If you're not impressed by HP numbers then how about acceleration numbers? The V6 Accord (family sedan) will do 0-60mph in 6.6 seconds (auto tranny). The V6 Mustang (sport coupe) will not even do that w/o some costly modifications.
Regardless... No one ever drives around using all of their HP and sliding through the slaloms, weaving in and out of orange cones... So these numbers (to me) are meaningless when you're talking about a car that's going to take John and Mary to the office and to pick up groceries on the weekends. Where these numbers come into play is with marketing and the Consumer Reports types of magazines when people are cross shopping car brands. Ford is going to lose out in that respect.
Back in the 80's Ford hit the mark with old Taurus. The Japanese (ala Toyota) basically copied the design into the 1992 Camry. Now.... In someone's line of thinking ford has taken to copying the best features of Honda/Acura and making it into the new Ford. I'm not the only one who sees this as I have heard Ford engineers make the same comment.
Ford is in trouble and they copy the Japanese product line... not improve on it, but just copy it? The 4 cyclinder engine is an old design by today's standards. It is unrefined and just a basic powerplant that will move the car without much oomph behind it. It is less powerfull than the Honda and Toyota 4 cylinders that were brought to market 3 and 4 years ago respectively. The 6 speed tranny... now that is an improvement but to most people they don't even know what that means to real world driving. Heck, my old 3 speed Olds did just fine back in the day.
I wish that Ford had been more bold and original with it's styling rather than mimicking the Japanese. I also feel that Ford should have been paying more attention to engine developement over the years.
And again, that blue oval should not have ever been considered for this carline. For many people it's the kiss of death... its the symbol of all the crappy cars that Ford out over the years and now its branded on what actually might be their most stylish car in a long time (despite my rantings about it being a copy of the Japanese).
This car will be a hit with all the Ford buyers who have thought their product line was stale and bland. It will also take away from sales of GM... But its not going to steal too many away from the imports.
I'm just not impressed with the management and engineering that I see at the domestics. Too many "perfumed princes" (and princess's) running around trying to look and be important. Not enough original thinking and no one making bold moves. Can't speak about the imports because I have never worked for an import carmaker.